China says North Korea tension has to be stopped from reaching 'irreversible' stage

[Credo]

I can only hope that any confrontation is avoided.   If we are to believe what is written by the press, then the N. Korean's are extremely indoctrinated and probably at least as fearful of the enemy as the Japanese were of the US.   

 

The aftermath of any confrontation is going to be as horrific as the confrontation itself.   

 

 

[Trouble]

8 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

N. Korea is a problem for everybody, with no easy solutions.

The Chinese don't want a war or a big refugee problem on their doorstep.  (bad for their economy!)

The US, Japan and S. Korea don't want Fat Boy to have nukes.

Fat boy and his ruling elite don't want to lose control of their country.  Because a large number of N. Koreans actually believe FB's aggressive posturing, he may find himself with no choice but to act, or lose face.

 

This is a unstable, dangerous situation that could easily escalate out of control.

 

Think you are right on all accounts. However I don't see this escalating out of control.  There is no doubt in my mind that the DPRK will test another nuclear weapon and there will be lots of talk by the US but in reality the US is impotent in this situation.  I think I read that the DPRK has the forth largest military in the world after the US, China, and Russia.  Seoul is only about 35 miles from the DMZ. Much of the military assets of the DPRK are posted along the DMZ and missiles are pointed at Seoul. There is no doubt in my mind that any kind of military strike by the US on facilities in the DPRK would lead to crazy Fat Boy giving the order for missile strikes against the South.  The problem that the US has is that it can't afford to take a chance on what Kim Jung Un might do. Having traveled to the DPRK, I think that the Kim dynasty has effectively got the people of the country believing that the world is against them and that the US is indeed the great Satan. Three generations of indoctrination have the people believing that the Korean War was started by the South and the US. My point being that, in general, the North Korean people are brainwashed believing that the Kim's are the saviors of the nation and looking out for the people. In my mind the only option for the US and the world is greater economic isolation. 

 

-I would like to see the US and China formulate a policy and send envoys to the DPRK and ask Fat Boy what he wants as an end result in return for stopping weapons production. 

-I think their needs to be a permanent peace settlement between the North and South. 

-Talk of reunification should NOT be on the table.  Remember that the Kim's have spent almost 70 years convincing people that if it wasn't for them their country would have been ravaged by the US and South Korea. Kim will not give up his power. Remember Kim does not want his general populace to learn much about the West nor how the well the people of South Korea live. That might cause him problems. For now the two countries must remain separate.

-Send Dennis Rodman over and see if he can set up a meeting between Trump and Kim. Trump travels to DPRK and makes a deal. 

[ddavidovsky]

5 hours ago, Briggsy said:

What will happen ---- Absolutely squat.

 

At the very worst, a border skirmish, as we have seen before and a handful of Korean soldiers on either side get killed.

 

Trump is under great pressure from an investigation into his undisclosed links with Russia. He has to make huge amounts of noise and dominate the headlines with other stuff. He has shown he is extremely adept when it comes to leading the press by the nose.

 

This situation has been ongoing since 1954.

 

Don't buy into Trump's bloviating empty talk.

Trump wants to bomb stuff. Plenty of evidence of that already.

[funandsuninbangkok]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

If I was based in Seoul, I'd sure get my skinny butt out of there. 

Agreed 

 

if you know where events are headed its best to be the first one there. 

 

Burn em

[Briggsy]

53 minutes ago, ddavidovsky said:

Trump wants to bomb stuff. Plenty of evidence of that already.

I disagree.

 

Trump loves to threaten to bomb stuff and talk tough. It goes down really well with many of the people who voted for him.

 

But one of the consistent messages of his campaign was disengagement and no more messy protracted overseas military campaigns.

 

There is no way Trump is going to set off a massive war on the Korean Peninsula. No way.

 

It is just more empty words which he will contradict within a few days. He needs to take the attention away from his opaque deals and obligations to Russia.

 

This is why he creates a drama every week. He leads the media with the skill of the world's best conductors.

[madusa]

On 2017/4/14 at 7:13 PM, Davidoffal said:

Nuke 'em Donald before they nuke you

Ha, ha, ha, north koreans have a lot less to lose than Americans. If they nuke Americans it's because Americans ask for it. Like in 1950 they wanted a war and they lost. Shameless USA.

Remember, poor north koreans have nothing much other than the shirts on their back to lose. That shirt is made in China. Their big brother China is not sitting around doing nothing if US comes in. Get that?

[anon4546543]

13 hours ago, elgordo38 said:

Even the name of their country is a big lie. There is no democracy there. China does not want to fight the US so they are using NK for a proxy. China would love to see the US take a few lumps and be softened up a bit by the Peoples "Democratic" Republic. China realizes the US is to big for them to "go it alone" so they are using these tactics. They could also enter a leaderless rudderless North Korea and assume some sort of control. Don't sell Mr. Xi short he also has his eye on permanent rule in China. He is also loading the Politiboro with his own henchmen. World domination is his goal thanks to all the US bucks he has taken in exporting worthless crap to America and the west. 

China can make the most sophisticated products but the west demands cheap crap. China seems to be backing away from support for Nth Korea, other than words and is prepared to let the US go it alone. If US does neutralise Nth Korea, and it easily can, the worst thing they can do is put boots on the ground in Nth Korea. Either way a war  will result in hundreds of thousands of Nth Koreans, thousands of Sth Koreans and US personnel casualties . Either way, Nth Korea needs to back right down, because I think Uncle Kims repeated threats to lob a nuke on US has reached the stage where it can be no more tolerated.  

[friendofthai]

"Irreversible stage" - this is what Vlad Putin is waiting for to slam the trap and put all his cards on the table.

[daveAustin]

21 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                That's what I've been saying about the Chinese take-over of islands and shoals in the S.China Sea.  However, with N.Korea, I lean to the Obama administration's tactics.   I miss Kerry.

                       If there's a fireworks factory in your neighborhood that bothers you, it would be better to soak it with fire hoses (or break the roof, so water seeps in), than to toss lighted paper airplanes in through the windows.

 

             Be careful what you wish for.  Donald takes advice from screaming right wing radio host screwballs, .....so he might take advice from Thai Visa nuts also.

 

                  When there were problems with East Germany (ok, different than N.Korea, but many similarities also), ......the US didn't go and drop nukes on them.   E.Germany imploded, mostly on their own, with a bit of help from Gorbachov.   It was the people of E.Germany who broke the dam, not any outside force.   Similarly, it should be the people of N.Korea who make the needed changes for N.Korea.  It may not happen in our lifetimes, but it will happen.    Meanwhile, don't throw rocks at a hornets nest unless you're prepared to get stung.     

It hasn't worked. Obama was a damp squib who could not play the man's game. He will (Kim) get his firecrackers operational, only a matter of time. NK is not East Germany; it is wholly geared to war, nowt else matters. This is the perfect opportunity to take him and for America to reassert itself as the main man. If we sit around and he lobs one into Manhattan from a shitty sub, everyone will say if only we took him when he was a sitting duck.

[boomerangutang]

2 minutes ago, daveAustin said:

It hasn't worked. Obama was a damp squib who could not play the man's game. He will (Kim) get his firecrackers operational, only a matter of time. NK is not East Germany; it is wholly geared to war, nowt else matters. This is the perfect opportunity to take him and for America to reassert itself as the main man. If we sit around and he lobs one into Manhattan from a shitty sub, everyone will say if only we took him when he was a sitting duck.

                 Obama inherited two active wars from Republican Bush.  He didn't start any wars, unless you count the bombing of ISIS.   Republicans are world class war-starters.  Their prez campaign was based, in part, on sowing fear.  Republicans know all about revenge, retribution, use of guns, dominance, holding grudges, and using any cheating means to win, (even if it means conspiring with a adversary country's secret service to undermine an election).

 

                 Now the US has a prez who cheated his way to top job (and scaring easily-scared rednecks in the process). He also promised 'America First' which means, among other things; not getting into military quagmires overseas.  He's breaking every promise he made to his easily-duped base.

 

                Every military excursion by the US since the Spanish-American war (started under false pretenses, btw; 'Remember the Maine!') has become a lot longer and more entangled than initially planned.  Presidents and military brass should be required to study military history, ......and hopefully learn from it.

[boomerangutang]

                 Trump: "I know more than the generals, believe me."

 

                 Everyone should know, by now, when Trump ends a sentence with '....believe me' he's lying his orange face off.

 

                   Indeed, he lies every time he makes sounds come out of his mouth.  Commander in Chief?  I wouldn't trust him to take a stick and run a stray dog off of a trash heap.  If I had 19 year old sons, I might be more aggravated by Trump's bottomless ignorance, but I love all boys and girls equally, so it's a moot point.  I don't want to see any of them get their heads blown off.

[baboon]

6 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I disagree.

 

Trump loves to threaten to bomb stuff and talk tough. It goes down really well with many of the people who voted for him.

 

But one of the consistent messages of his campaign was disengagement and no more messy protracted overseas military campaigns.

 

There is no way Trump is going to set off a massive war on the Korean Peninsula. No way.

 

It is just more empty words which he will contradict within a few days. He needs to take the attention away from his opaque deals and obligations to Russia.

 

This is why he creates a drama every week. He leads the media with the skill of the world's best conductors.

Quite. I mean step back for a moment and think about it - Why is the DPRK any more dangerous than it was this time last week? But all of a sudden they've really done it this time and need to be stopped. Really done what?

And still poster after poster is buying into it and calling the North Koreans brainwashed. Looks like they are in good company...

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

Quite. I mean step back for a moment and think about it - Why is the DPRK any more dangerous than it was this time last week? But all of a sudden they've really done it this time and need to be stopped. Really done what?

And still poster after poster is buying into it and calling the North Koreans brainwashed. Looks like they are in good company...

                  That coincides what I meant when I earlier wrote advice to Trump, "Let sleeping dogs lay."

 

                 N.Korean generals haven't done much tangibly bad in recent years.  They dropped a small bomb on a S.Korean island, damaging a house.  They fired some missile tests out on the sea, about half of which failed, like the one today.  But mostly, they're bluster.   Is the US going to bomb the bejeesus out of Pyongyang because their leader blusters?

 

                   If the US is going to bomb countries because they don't like what their leaders are saying and/or they don't like that other country developing weapons, then Uncle Sam is going to have a busy schedule of bombing.  Roughly a fifth of the countries in the world would be considered troublemakers worthy of being spanked, according to those parameters.  

 

                        Trump is already creating more than enough problems in his own country, most recently gutting EPA (Env.Protection Agency) so they won't be doing any regulating of pesticides or toxins, starting on May 15th.  I'm not kidding.  That's just a tiny fraction of the harm Trumpsters are inflicting on the US.   Fat Boy Kim doesn't need to send missiles to debilitate the US, ......people in the Oval Office are doing it for him - starting with toxifying the environment.

 

 

[elgordo38]

8 hours ago, friendofthai said:

"Irreversible stage" - this is what Vlad Putin is waiting for to slam the trap and put all his cards on the table.

You could be right VP could be sitting back waiting for the US to attack NK and then China would rush to their aid and Vlad would be the last man left standing. 

[ddavidovsky]

11 hours ago, Briggsy said:

I disagree.

 

Trump loves to threaten to bomb stuff and talk tough. It goes down really well with many of the people who voted for him.

 

But one of the consistent messages of his campaign was disengagement and no more messy protracted overseas military campaigns.

 

There is no way Trump is going to set off a massive war on the Korean Peninsula. No way.

 

It is just more empty words which he will contradict within a few days. He needs to take the attention away from his opaque deals and obligations to Russia.

 

This is why he creates a drama every week. He leads the media with the skill of the world's best conductors.

Personally I think they should just leave N. Korea alone, but N, Korea has been threatened relentlessly over the years by US/S.Korea war games and the strategy is seemingly to provoke them into overstepping the line.

 

Trump has already upped the bombings in Syria and Afghanistan within the space of few days and is clearly escalating the N. Korea situation. It's not difficult to assume his finger is itching over the button, and I don't see any convincing reason to assume he's just talking tough . He is actually coming across as unstable as General Turgidson in Dr Strangelove.

[boomerangutang]

How can Briggsy be so sure when he opines, "There is no way Trump is going to set off a massive war on the Korean Peninsula. No way."

 

              I knew Trump was a horse's ass before the campaign debates among Republican candidates. But during those debates, he made it crystal clear what a blundering idiot he is.  It's entirely possible, indeed probable, that he will contribute to at least one major war in the near-future.  Everything about Trump screams ego-fueled stupidity.  I have zero faith in him as a leader of a barbed wire fence fixing crew, let alone head of the world's most powerful military.

[anon4546543]

15 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

                 Trump: "I know more than the generals, believe me."

 

                 Everyone should know, by now, when Trump ends a sentence with '....believe me' he's lying his orange face off.

 

                   Indeed, he lies every time he makes sounds come out of his mouth.  Commander in Chief?  I wouldn't trust him to take a stick and run a stray dog off of a trash heap.  If I had 19 year old sons, I might be more aggravated by Trump's bottomless ignorance, but I love all boys and girls equally, so it's a moot point.  I don't want to see any of them get their heads blown off.

So you are bi?

[craigt3365]

16 hours ago, ddavidovsky said:

Personally I think they should just leave N. Korea alone, but N, Korea has been threatened relentlessly over the years by US/S.Korea war games and the strategy is seemingly to provoke them into overstepping the line.

 

Trump has already upped the bombings in Syria and Afghanistan within the space of few days and is clearly escalating the N. Korea situation. It's not difficult to assume his finger is itching over the button, and I don't see any convincing reason to assume he's just talking tough . He is actually coming across as unstable as General Turgidson in Dr Strangelove.

You're blaming the US for all of this.  What started these problems were North Korea's violations of UN resolution, which were put in place due to the actions of NK.  Place the blame properly.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_Security_Council_resolutions_concerning_North_Korea

 

[mrwebb8825]

On 4/15/2017 at 11:04 AM, Krataiboy said:

There can be no doubt that North Korea is a very real danger to world peace, particularly since joining the nuclear club.  It is also evident from a study of the long and turbulent history of relations between Pyongyang and the White House that the Communist leadership almost always responds more rationally to diplomacy than to threats and bullying.

 

Trump needs to weigh these two facts carefully.

 

Relations between the US and North Korea, which had brightened up to and including the Clinton era, took a significant step backwards under George Bush Jr, who brusquely rejected a deal which would have given Pyongyang guarantees on security in return for a modification of its nuclear aspirations.

 

Now the new Republican incumbent of the Oval Office has made it clear - in his usual understated style - that the Communist enclave is not only back in the US’s bad books but also firmly in the cross-hairs of its military. “If China is not going to solve North Korea, we will,” he is reported have told his opposite number if Beijing.

 

Could anything be more calculated to provoke an aggressive and irrational response from an already paranoid North Korean leadership which, in addition to its nuclear capability, has enough conventional artillery trained on Seoul to turn the South Korean capital to dust in a few hours?

 

Only a villain or a fool would wish to call Pyongyang’s bluff and risk a setting off a chain of events which could result in a third, thermonuclear, world war and end the tenure of homo sapiens as the guardians of this planet.

 

Donald Trump supporters assure the rest of us that, whatever else the man may be, he is no fool.   We had all better start praying they are right.

 

Footnote: China has allegedly sounded a chilling warning to both the US and North Korea, according to a popular alternative news site. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-11/china-threatens-bomb-north-koreas-nuclear-facilities-if-it-crosses-beijings-bottom-line 

The same guy and website have this story as well.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-07/first-images-aftermath-inefficient-us-missile-strikes-emerge

 

Might want to look for a better news source.

[mrwebb8825]

On 4/16/2017 at 0:13 AM, Trouble said:

-Send Dennis Rodman over and see if he can set up a meeting between Trump and Kim. Trump travels to DPRK and makes a deal. 

This I agree with. I'd send him over there on this premise in a special aircraft equipped with the biggest EMP weapon ever conceived and take out their communications in seconds.

On 4/16/2017 at 0:13 AM, Trouble said:

Seoul is only about 35 miles from the DMZ. Much of the military assets of the DPRK are posted along the DMZ and missiles are pointed at Seoul.

A large scale carpet bombing with the sophisticated weapons we have available now could effectively cut the entire peninsula in half, taking out 95-99% of their arsenal in a matter of minutes.

On 4/16/2017 at 0:13 AM, Trouble said:

I think I read that the DPRK has the forth largest military in the world after the US, China, and Russia.

You are correct in terms of manpower (and womanpower) but it is #4 behind China, The US and India. Check that stat against effectiveness.

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjN0MnMzK3TAhVTv5QKHbPkAWsQFghLMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wonderslist.com%2F10-countries-with-strongest-armies%2F&usg=AFQjCNEuCt7hXeh-GM0x7xIKHPWFt828ng

 

Then check that against technology and firepower.

 

http://www.thejournal.ie/miltaries-worldwide-ranked-2368509-Oct2015/

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by mrwebb8825

[Scott]

Zerohedge is not a credible website.   Please don't use it.  

[baboon]

6 hours ago, mrwebb8825 said:

This I agree with. I'd send him over there on this premise in a special aircraft equipped with the biggest EMP weapon ever conceived and take out their communications in seconds.

A large scale carpet bombing with the sophisticated weapons we have available now could effectively cut the entire peninsula in half, taking out 95-99% of their arsenal in a matter of minutes.

You are correct in terms of manpower (and womanpower) but it is #4 behind China, The US and India. Check that stat against effectiveness.

https://www.google.co.th/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=10&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjN0MnMzK3TAhVTv5QKHbPkAWsQFghLMAk&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wonderslist.com%2F10-countries-with-strongest-armies%2F&usg=AFQjCNEuCt7hXeh-GM0x7xIKHPWFt828ng

 

Then check that against technology and firepower.

 

http://www.thejournal.ie/miltaries-worldwide-ranked-2368509-Oct2015/

 

The entire peninsula is already effectively cut in half. What are you on about?

[mrwebb8825]

14 hours ago, baboon said:

The entire peninsula is already effectively cut in half. What are you on about?

The northern 1/2 having weapons pointed at the southern 1/2?

[Krataiboy]

On 4/18/2017 at 3:09 PM, mrwebb8825 said:

The same guy and website have this story as well.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-07/first-images-aftermath-inefficient-us-missile-strikes-emerge

 

Might want to look for a better news source.

Sorry, but I refuse to rely on Fox news any more since they got rid of that nice Mr  O'Reilly.

[maewang99]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 8:06 AM, darksidedog said:

China is the only country that can realistically do this. They can put pressure on North Korea way more than anyone else.

If China hadn't been protecting them, there is a fair chance the regime would have collapsed already.

The problem is, I don't see China standing by and doing nothing if the Americans strike.

Trump agreed with this all along... until he got a 10 minute lecture. 

10 minutes.