Evaporation or leak?

[carlyai]

Yes, it seems like an evaporation to me too. 

I would say, don't fill the pool until you unblock the light water holes. I think they are there to let the water in to help cool the light.
I have 4 Eumax changing color LED lights, and in the manual it says not to operate them for more than a few seconds outside water, so there is a heat problem, so I would allow as much lamp cooling as possible, via convection etc.
Fill the tubes from the deck boxes to the lights with water, if you can, water in the tube and pool should stay the same if no leaks. I did this before I installed the deck boxes.
I think the pool weak points are the light systems, just problems waiting to happen.


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[Valentine]

On 10/24/2017 at 6:48 AM, carlyai said:

I would say, don't fill the pool until you unblock the light water holes. I think they are there to let the water in to help cool the light.
I have 4 Eumax changing color LED lights, and in the manual it says not to operate them for more than a few seconds outside water, so there is a heat problem, so I would allow as much lamp cooling as possible, via convection etc.
Fill the tubes from the deck boxes to the lights with water, if you can, water in the tube and pool should stay the same if no leaks. I did this before I installed the deck boxes.
I think the pool weak points are the light systems, just problems waiting to happen.


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What did you put around the conduit where the cable goes from the light through the wall?

[ChomDo]

I have unblocked the air holes on the lamp long ago so it's back to normal. I didn't have a leak there anyway but in the lower return.

 

The leak in my pool has been fixed. I had the lower return blocked and now using just one return. 

 

I do have a new problem though. After the guy connected a few new pipes (one of them being the skimmer to pump pipe) my skimmer doesn't prime well at all. There's hardly any suction and the pump case is half full of air. I've tried everything related to skimmer troubleshooting and can't find the problem. Seems to be just an endless process of getting the pool to work correctly. 

[grollies]

You tried bleeding the air out? What size is your pump suction and what size is (are) your skimmer pipe and how many? 

[ChomDo]

15 minutes ago, grollies said:

You tried bleeding the air out? What size is your pump suction and what size is (are) your skimmer pipe and how many? 

Lets say I've tried everything that is recommended for pump priming and skimmer suction problems. The point is that the pump was priming perfectly before and the skimmer had very strong suction. It's just since the guy had to take of the skimmer pipe and make a new one (just because it was connected to the other pipes that had to be changed) the suction was gone. I'm guessing air gets into the skimmer pipe from one of the connections but I can't find any such spot by myself. Now I can't run the pump at all since it's always half full of air and skimmer hardly sucks any water in from the pool so no point. 

 

As always with these pool guys. This one seemed nice and professional enough. We had no problems with him what so ever when he came to fix the leak. When we called him about the problem with the skimmer (which of course seems to have been caused by his work) he said he'll come fix it on Monday. Well he didn't show up and didn't pick up the phone since! That's why I've been trying to figure it out on my own but I can't find the cause so I guess have to try to find yet another one of these "pool guys".

[grollies]

Give him a day or two. A lot of thais are getting over the cremation. We can't get hold of our stone supplier at the moment, phone off. Try next week.

[ChomDo]

Yea sure but I'm not very hopeful that he would return. As far as I've noticed these construction guys work everyday and are not affected by public ceremonies. Anyway I think what happened is that he realised he had created some problem with the skimmer pipe and is just lazy to come back an fix it. Just strange in a way because all he would have to do is make a new skimmer pipe. Not a big deal and would take probably max 1 hour. 

 

I still wonder could the problem be that he made too many 90 degree turns in the skimmer pipe. The way he made the PVC pipe from the skimmer to the pump looks quite complicated and has a few tight turns and ups and downs. I've never heard it mentioned anywhere but I was just thinking can this create air in the pump and bad suction? The most obvious reason should be that air is coming in from some of the connection points but I see no evidence of that.

[Valentine]

13 hours ago, ChomDo said:

Yea sure but I'm not very hopeful that he would return. As far as I've noticed these construction guys work everyday and are not affected by public ceremonies. Anyway I think what happened is that he realised he had created some problem with the skimmer pipe and is just lazy to come back an fix it. Just strange in a way because all he would have to do is make a new skimmer pipe. Not a big deal and would take probably max 1 hour. 

 

I still wonder could the problem be that he made too many 90 degree turns in the skimmer pipe. The way he made the PVC pipe from the skimmer to the pump looks quite complicated and has a few tight turns and ups and downs. I've never heard it mentioned anywhere but I was just thinking can this create air in the pump and bad suction? The most obvious reason should be that air is coming in from some of the connection points but I see no evidence of that.

Silly question but have you checked if the rubber seal for the pump lid is actually in place or damaged.

[ChomDo]

40 minutes ago, Valentine said:

Silly question but have you checked if the rubber seal for the pump lid is actually in place or damaged.

Sure that would be the very fist thing to check. Like I said there earlier I have checked everything possible related to pump not priming and skimmer suction problems.

[ChomDo]

I don't know if this helps to locate the problem but one thing I don't understand is that when I try to fill the pump case with a garden hose, it won't fill up to the top. I mean when I stop pouring water with the hose the water level in the pump case/basket would always drop to the skimmer pipe hole and not stay full. Only if I close the skimmer valve while pouring water in it would stay full. This is why I also can not manually prime the pump with a garden hose. I've also tried filling the pump by using backwash and waste modes. This way the the pump fills up as it should but as soon as I switch to filter mode and open the skimmer valve air gets into the pump case/basket. Does this make sense or indicate to some obvious issue? If there was some air hole in the skimmer pipe (at the connection points) wouldn't water run out of there at least when the pump is off?

 

 

[grollies]

Did you have a non-return valve in before?

[janclaes47]

3 hours ago, ChomDo said:

Sure that would be the very fist thing to check. Like I said there earlier I have checked everything possible related to pump not priming and skimmer suction problems.

Listen if you hear a fizzling sound on the filter handle.

 

Your water may escape to the waste pipe. In that case put a valve on the waste pipe.

[Naam]

50 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

Listen if you hear a fizzling sound on the filter handle.

 

Your water may escape to the waste pipe. In that case put a valve on the waste pipe.

excellent advice! i never had a pool where the multiport valve did not start leaking to the waste pipe after a year or two. installing an additional valve to close waste is an easy solution.

 

note: don't forget to open when backwashing!

[ChomDo]

40 minutes ago, Naam said:

excellent advice! i never had a pool where the multiport valve did not start leaking to the waste pipe after a year or two. installing an additional valve to close waste is an easy solution.

 

note: don't forget to open when backwashing!

No fizzling sounds anywhere and the waste pipe has a valve since the beginning. 

[ChomDo]

Ok finally I located the problem! Now that it's been dry weather for 2 days I was wondering why there's still water around the pipes. I dried every place around there and quickly noticed water flowing out of the the first skimmer pipe connection point where the skimmer pipe comes above ground. So that spot must have just been glued badly and was letting air in when pump is on and water out when pump is off.

 

This should also explain why the water level in the pool was still going down 1,5 cm per day even though the return pipe leak was fixed.

Edited October 28, 2017 by ChomDo

[grollies]

You're not having much luck with your pool are you. Hopefully for you that's it now. Glad you seem to be sorted though

[ChomDo]

Now that I found the problem could someone tell me what's the normal way to fix the air leak in the skimmer pipe. Should I just add more glue to the leak spot where the two PVC pipes are connected or should I cut it off and have a new pipe connected again?

[Naam]

cut it off and have a new pipe connected

[ChomDo]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

cut it off and have a new pipe connected

I'm sure that would be the safest way to do it, but the problem is that the leaking spot is about 1 cm above the concrete surface, so it would be very hard to cut it. I was hoping that I could solve it by adding glue or epoxy by myself to the spot that has air coming trough (and water leaking out).

 

I tried to add a picture of the pipe to clarify, but it doesn't allow me to upload them. I can try if it would work later.

[Naam]

26 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

I was hoping that I could solve it by adding glue or epoxy by myself to the spot that has air coming trough (and water leaking out).

that might work as a temporary solution. but use glue not epoxy which will crack with the tiniest expansion or contraction. if the pipe is 1cm above concrete i don't see a problem to cut it and reconnect it again. but i haven't seen your picture.

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, ChomDo said:

I tried to add a picture of the pipe to clarify, but it doesn't allow me to upload them. I can try if it would work later.

Resize your picture to be less than 128kB, there's a forum bug at present (dashed annoying too).

 

You could try using PVC glue whilst running the pump to try to draw the glue into the spaces.

 

Of course the correct solution is to pull the joint and re-do.

 

 

[chickenslegs]

Could repair tape do the job?

 

https://www.lazada.co.th/25cmx300cm-diy-silicone-tape-emergency-repair-leak-seal-27595632.html?spm=a2o4m.prod.0.0.6bf4fac18dMGgm&lzd_rec_event_src=EA641HLAACRWRCANTH&lzd_rec_event_dest=IT732HLAAGFGXCANTH&strat=viewed_viewed&pa=item_page.bottom

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

You could try using PVC glue whilst running the pump to try to draw the glue into the spaces.

 

[ChomDo]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

Resize your picture to be less than 128kB, there's a forum bug at present (dashed annoying too).

 

You could try using PVC glue whilst running the pump to try to draw the glue into the spaces.

 

Of course the correct solution is to pull the joint and re-do.

 

 

Ok thanks for the info. Here are the photos of the leak location on the skimmer pipe.

[Naam]

14 minutes ago, ChomDo said:

Here are the photos of the leak location on the skimmer pipe.

aarrrgghh!

[ChomDo]

37 minutes ago, Naam said:

aarrrgghh!

Doesn't look like an easy spot to repair right? I'm not sure if I can even operate a saw in that tight space. Even if I could, there would hardly be any pipe left above ground level to connect a new pipe. I think I'll have to try glue first. 

 

In the close up of that leak spot it looks like the glue that the previous guy used has been leaking down and on the concrete. Not sure should that happen with PVC glue.

[Crossy]

That looks like a bodge has already been attempted.

 

I've had a similar situation with a pipe coming out of the ground.

 

Here's what I would do.

• Cut the top pipe right next to the fitting.
• Carefully split the fitting where the bottom pipe enters it, use a hacksaw blade, avoid damaging the pipe.
• Then you may be able to lever apart the ring and remove the fitting if the glue is really that bad.

If not

• Warm the outside of the fitting with a heat gun / blowlamp.
• That should allow you to remove the fitting and leave the stub of pipe.

Clean everything up and attach new fitting. Of course you'll need a joint to extend the top pipe.

 

[carlyai]

New pipe is the answer, but....I just fixed a leak using the 3M rubberized electrical tape, not the standard horrible stuff that melts and falls off.
The tape is like a tyre inner tube, but very easy to work with and it stretches so you can wind it tightly on a fitting.
The Issan farmers around me use the rubber inner tubes everywhere for pump and pipe leaks, and it works.

So you get the tape and wind it on....I applied nearly a complete roll.

I've got some pics that hopefully I can post. The blue electrical tape on the outside was a Leo induced attempt at color coordination, the black 3M tape is underneath the color coordination.

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[ChomDo]

I got a guy to fix the leaking pvc pipe connection in the skimmer pipe. He replaced the whole skimmer part section of the pipe. I waited 2 days for the glue to dry well (just in case) and turned on the pump today. Unfortunately no change with the air in the pump case. I tested the skimmers suction by connecting the vacuum hose and suction is strong, so I guess no problem about that. The new pipe also seems solid and there's no leak when pump is off (before fixing the skimmer pipe water was running out of the pvc joint that I posted a picture of last time). I spent a few hours today trying to figure out why the pump runs only about 3/4 full. So there's still a lot of air circulating under the pump lid and air bubbles coming out of the return pipe into the pool. 

 

I think I've done all I can with this issue and at least the skimmer has enough suction. Is there any harm letting it be like this. I mean that the pump runs 3/4 full all the time? Can this cause harm to the pump?

 

I'll add a picture of the fixed skimmer pipe.

[carlyai]

For me I don't really know. Pumps are supposed to run full of water, so you are probably doing damage if you don't run it full of water.
So what's the down side? Your pump works harder, you use a little more electricity and you damage the impeller.
I replace an impeller on a pump (B500 I think). Difference with pump performance was chalk and cheese.
So if you are getting enough flow, and you don't want to do anything, maybe in the future you buy a new impeller.

I am not an expert and I am just guessing.



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