United changes crew booking policy after passenger dragged off plane

[Srikcir]

27 minutes ago, dazzz said:

they wanted to send their staff to another airport?

United's defense was confusing. There was no overbooking. The flight was sold out without bumping any booked customer. But then four United crew people came to the gate requesting seats on the flight. They were scheduled for a flight the NEXT day in another city 4 hours away by car. Obviously, United could have done better to balance its operating needs with its customer needs.

[newnative]

16 hours ago, thaihome said:

 

Overbooking is not the issue and should allowed. What needs to change is involuntary denial. A full auction should take place untill somebody volunteers.  Volunteering is good thing and makes people very happy.

 

I have done it a few times in order to upgrades and lounge access while waiting  for next flight in a couple of hours. Once volunteered to move from a United flight SFO to Narita to Japan Airlines 40 minutes later. The inducement was you could still smoke on  the Japan flight. Haver never volunteered for a 24 hour delay though. That would have to serious cash, vouchers wouldn't cut it.

TH 

Totally agree.  Any bumping should always be voluntary with cash, not vouchers, required. No paying passenger should ever be involuntarily bumped.  You offer enough cash, you will likely never have a situation where not enough passengers volunteer to be bumped.  Delta seems to have a good system in place.

[garyk]

Little late now United! America is next I hope!!!  

[PeteM3]

11 hours ago, thaihome said:

I tend to disagree in placing the entire blame on "corporate greed" though that certainly plays a significant part in the disintegration of service in the US airline industry.

 

I truly believe that it has more to do with management not showing leadership and emphasizing service and fair treatment of customers as an important part of an airlines mission. That can be done without impacting profitability and often can increases it.

 

I believe it's just plain laziness and  a disconnect to the human condition taught by the leading business schools for the past 40 years.

TH 

 

I have to agree with the original poster. If this is corporate "policy" it comes from executive management and approved by the board of directors. It starts at the top. Management cannot ignore corporate policy's, no room for discretion here. If it was a procedure or work instruction then local management can apply discretion and common sense when the situation arises.

[Beats56]

United is taking a awful beating on social media and reddit and it looks good on them.

I was once on a late night flight with wife and both my children from Alanta to Detroit. There was only one

other passenger on the plane. It was heaven.

 

[dazzz]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

Yes, if you read the threads about this you are correct.

so why does every news headline i read say overbooked ? If they were staff members who united just wanted to fly to another airport  late in the day then they were not booked on the flight? If they were not booked then would the overbooking rules  apply?
 Seems a bit confusing to me . If the airline just realized they needed these 4 people in another airport it is their problem not the passengers and this guy should not have been thrown off . If they had booked these 4 on the flight and issued tickets then it was a case of overbooking

[little mary sunshine]

To little, to late...Scumbag Airline...avoid if possible.

[madusa]

On 2017/4/14 at 11:40 PM, 55Jay said:

A good move by United.  Belated.  Reluctantly.  It's such a reasonable sounding policy, nearly defies logic to think it wasn't the policy in the first place or that it's needed at all. 

 

Had you told me this United story as fiction before it happened, I probably would of said, "Naw, mate, United's not THAT stupid, never going to happen like that."

 

But that's the world and society we live in.  I reckon 98% (+/-) of the people in the world are decent folks, but the way our society and systems work,  we have to put more policies and laws in place to control yet another new low in human behavior by the 1 or 2%. 

 

If old Moses were a still around, he would would be Sharing on Facebook, Twitter, and ThaiVisa via Android App..... "Jeez, come on you numpties, there's only 10!  How bloody hard can it be for Ch***t's Sake!" 

Is that Charleston Heston? He was parting the red sea, actually there was seismic on the seabed that caused the water to roll back.(no miracle) He looks young in this photo or is it someone else dressed up as moses?

[55Jay]

3 minutes ago, madusa said:

Is that Charleston Heston? He was parting the red sea, actually there was seismic on the seabed that caused the water to roll back.(no miracle) He looks young in this photo or is it someone else dressed up as moses?

Not sure if it's CH, just one of a load of them on Google images.  I chose this one because of the smart phone.  LOL. 

[madusa]

I thought things like that only happened in China. But in USA?  Such violence, are they eating too much meat? All the hormones in the meat?

Now, the Doctor can go on a first class holidays with all the compensation. Since he is a Doctor, something like  US$20 million compensation? Oh, I forgot he is Asian, the lost of face that alone would entitle for more .... LOL

[canthai55]

No word on the LEO's who caused this. Minimum - Assault. Next step - Security guard at Walmart.

[55Jay]

8 minutes ago, madusa said:

I thought things like that only happened in China. But in USA?  Such violence, are they eating too much meat? All the hormones in the meat?

Now, the Doctor can go on a first class holidays with all the compensation. Since he is a Doctor, something like  US$20 million compensation? Oh, I forgot he is Asian, the lost of face that alone would entitle for more .... LOL

You may not be too far off the mark.  If we are to believe the rhetoric, the US is more divided now than ever.  But the US has always been a polarized place by its very nature and makeup.  It's a natural human instinct.  The idea of national unity under a flag, this "melting pot" is wishful thinking coupled with idyllic propaganda worthy of comparison to communist regimes.

 

We pride ourselves on individuality, personal rights, freedom and ownership of property but there has been a palpable shift in the past 20 or so years; a chipping away at it, in the name of Homeland Security and fight against terrorism.  It now smells a bit like the Eastern Asian/Communist concepts of diminished rights of the individual for the good of the group.  Some of the big moves were made quickly and quietly in the heat of the moment, while others have been a slow creep over time until you wake up a few decades later and wonder how the hell you got here.

 

In most of the "crazy person removed from plane" videos on youtube, as the person is unceremoniously dragged away by police, kicking and screaming for help, passengers can be heard laughing nervously and then begin applauding in unison.   Not this time.  Quite the opposite in fact.  I have hope this moment of awakening will not be wasted, and the media stays on side and keeps asking loud and clear, "How in the hell did we get to this point?"

[madusa]

On 2017/4/14 at 10:33 PM, darksidedog said:

If they had been using this more sensible policy in the first place, they wouldn't have the current drama and bad press.

It is sad that such an incident has to happen before a major airline decides to start treating its customers with a little respect.

I hope they are equally speedy to offer Mr. Dao a very generous compensation package.

What do you mean a very generous compensation package?   If I were Mr Dao I would strike a deal with my lawyer and agree on a percentage for my lawyer if he won the case.

My lawyer will agrue in court that "My Client Dr Dao a respectable Doctor had lost face in the Vietnamese community after he was so unceremoniously dragged off the aircraft in full view of everybody, the lost of face is a very serious matter among the Asian, in Japan , some Japanese would commit suicide because they lost face"

I would sue for US$120 million. I am sure the airline can sell off some aircrafts to pay. My lawyer will be smiling from ear to ear while drinking his coffee at breakfast when the headline says, "airline pays US$120 million compensation". He put down his newspaper and say to his wife, "Darling we will be going to the Bahamas for holidays, flying first class of course".

You lucky man Mr Dao.

[JHolmesJr]

I would've thought the best policy would be to keep 5 seats in reserve on every flight (ie. not offer them for sale).

 

But the greedy b%$#&^%$ probably probably find that a bit against their business ethics, citing shareholder responsibility.

 

Now Munoz is responsible to shareholders for losing what appears to be an eight or nine figure sum.

 

Good stuff.

[chainarong]

Much to late for most , the pathetic way they removed the doctor from the flight  will remain an Achilles heal for United for some time, all concerned should be congratulated on not what to do as a public relations exercise.................................................

[Basil B]

Not sure how much Dr Dao paid for his ticket but he was at best likely to only receive 4 times this to a maximum of $1350 as compensation for being a day late at his destination if involuntarily denied booking. 

 

Looking on Expedia the cheapest return ticket on a Sunday ORD - SDF is $300, take half of that and times it buy four, that $600, also as I understand this was the second leg of his flight so nowhere near home so would have to find a hotel for the night plus substance...

 

No I would not be happy to be bumped either, all Airlines need to look at their policy on bumping passengers now as there are going to be a lot more stories in the next few days, weeks, months which is going to cripple many airlines. 

 

Even with the sixty minute rule this is likely to mean bumping passengers who have already checked in, I can now see airlines looking for reasons to bump passenger, like accusing them of being drunk or abusive.

[CaptHaddock]

1 hour ago, madusa said:

I thought things like that only happened in China. But in USA?  Such violence, are they eating too much meat? All the hormones in the meat?

Now, the Doctor can go on a first class holidays with all the compensation. Since he is a Doctor, something like  US$20 million compensation? Oh, I forgot he is Asian, the lost of face that alone would entitle for more .... LOL

You thought that, because you are a sucker for US propaganda.  Which country has the highest incarceration rate in the world?  Which has the highest rate of gun violence in the world?  Which country has started shotting wars against other countries and killed more people outside its borders in the last few decades?  Hint: it's not China!

[dick dasterdly]

18 hours ago, Jonmarleesco said:

'Munoz has said he has no plans to resign. Even before this week ... was under pressure from activist investors to improve the airline's performance, including its customer relations.'

 

He might not be given the choice.

We can only hope this is the case, but its quite possible that he's liked by the Board and will get away with his initial appalling statements blaming the passenger .

[madusa]

15 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

You thought that, because you are a sucker for US propaganda.  Which country has the highest incarceration rate in the world?  Which has the highest rate of gun violence in the world?  Which country has started shotting wars against other countries and killed more people outside its borders in the last few decades?  Hint: it's not China!

Hello Captain, you got me wrong, let's not get all work up on this. I was thinking America has all these constitutions and human rights things going for them. But China doesn't seem to show much of these, I saw too many Youtube where China government apologized and paid compensations for wrongly executed some innocent people.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese Airlines drag people off the aircraft, it was a big surprise that it happened to be the USA, who is always talking about human rights..

Oh, no, I certainly don't lick the boots of the USA,  not after they bombed and killed all my Arabs friends in Bagdad (Iraq). They even stole the antiques from the museum. The Arabs are my friends, especially the Algerians. I love them, they are good people you know.

[dick dasterdly]

A good start, but now we need to know whether there are any laws in place allowing airlines to call in security staff to physically eject a passenger for reasons that have nothing to do with security.

[Srikcir]

10 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

A good start, but now we need to know whether there are any laws in place allowing airlines to call in security staff to physically eject a passenger for reasons that have nothing to do with security.

Doubt it.

"Jeff Redding, who is in charge of safety and security at the Chicago Department of Aviation, which operates O'Hare International Airport, said airport security are not supposed to respond to such calls....If it is a customer service-related incident, then you don't need to board the plane at all," ....The airport security officers, while required to meet minimum police standards and go through academy training, are not in fact police, and cannot carry guns or arrest people.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/airport-security-officials-who-hauled-10229631

 

 

[CaptHaddock]

6 minutes ago, madusa said:

Hello Captain, you got me wrong, let's not get all work up on this. I was thinking America has all these constitutions and human rights things going for them. But China doesn't seem to show much of these, I saw too many Youtube where China government apologized and paid compensations for wrongly executed some innocent people.

So I wouldn't be surprised if Chinese Airlines drag people off the aircraft, it was a big surprise that it happened to be the USA, who is always talking about human rights..

Oh, no, I certainly don't lick the boots of the USA,  not after they bombed and killed all my Arabs friends in Bagdad (Iraq). They even stole the antiques from the museum. The Arabs are my friends, especially the Algerians. I love them, they are good people you know.

I don't mean to be overly aggressive toward you in particular, but most Americans believe the US is the "good" nation, yadda, yadda, yadda, instead of the aggressive rogue that nation it has been for a long time.  It is the triumph of US propaganda.  However, a global Gallup poll a few years ago found that the nation most people around the world identified as the greatest threat to peace is the US. 

 

The US claims the right to overthrow governments anywhere it wants to.  Neither Russia nor China make such claims, much less act on them.  Apparently China does carry out thousands of executions per year.  However, the death toll in the second US war on Iraq alone is estimated to be between 150,000 and 1 million, every single one of whom was entirely innocent of involvement in the 9/11 attack, which caused 3,000 deaths.  So, your instinctive reaction that somehow China is the violent or aggressive nation and  not us, is a walk in Wonderland.

[dick dasterdly]

I'd add - who cares if UA 'promise' never to do it again?

 

Have they sacked the CEO (for his initial statements blaming the passenger) or the local staff responsible for calling in security staff to physically remove an 'unwanted' passenger to make way for airline staff?

[madusa]

Now that you mention wonderland, I have a sister named Alice. She is not in touch with reality at times, it's like "Alice in Wonderland".

[madusa]

15 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

I don't mean to be overly aggressive toward you in particular, but most Americans believe the US is the "good" nation, yadda, yadda, yadda, instead of the aggressive rogue that nation it has been for a long time.  It is the triumph of US propaganda.  However, a global Gallup poll a few years ago found that the nation most people around the world identified as the greatest threat to peace is the US. 

 

The US claims the right to overthrow governments anywhere it wants to.  Neither Russia nor China make such claims, much less act on them.  Apparently China does carry out thousands of executions per year.  However, the death toll in the second US war on Iraq alone is estimated to be between 150,000 and 1 million, every single one of whom was entirely innocent of involvement in the 9/11 attack, which caused 3,000 deaths.  So, your instinctive reaction that somehow China is the violent or aggressive nation and  not us, is a walk in Wonderland.

"a walk in Wonderland" you say? I will tell my sister to come along, she is called Alice what a coincidence.

[kannot]

Too late mate...damage  done

[CaptHaddock]

So, the new policy is just what I was expecting.  United will now carefully take your seat for their personnel at their whim, but only before you board since their employees will be boarded before you.  Solves the PR problem for United, but, of course, does nothing at all for the rights of the passengers. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/us/united-passengers-removal.html?_r=0

 

The fact that the high-handedness of US airlines like United arises from their monopoly position in that market is apparent when you consider that although their fares climbed steeply to reflect the increase in the price of oil a few years ago, when the price subsequently fell, the price of tickets didn't drop at all.  The increased profits were used to buyback airline shares.  That's what monopoly pricing power gets you.

 

Instead of calling for Congress to write regulations in the hopes that United will be forced to extend basic courtesy to their clientele, the call should be to open up US domestic routes to foreign competition.   Nothing like the discipline of the free market.