Am I naive, gullible or just very stupid?

[phuketjock]

2 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

What was the question again? 

 

Oh right, anybody else have bad relationship experiences in Thailand?  The answer is obvious, especially here on TVF, which OP knows of course, but always a fun thread.   

 

It doesn't make you dumb or stupid if you fall into the same old, predictable traps that so many before you, and many after, have and will fall into. 

 

You are more than a bit daft if you keep doing that over and over again.  Even if you can afford it financially.  Money doesn't equate to common sense.  Neither does age indicate wisdom.  Age just happens.  

 

OP, have you ever heard of or read Stephen Leather book called Private Dancer?  I'm told you can get a free download.  Even at this point, check it out if you haven't already.  

 

At any rate OP, at least you've got a handle on it now. The most important word in your default lexicon here is "No".  Lots seem to forget that one, or are so puzzy whipped, or scared of being alone one day, or so beat down by western feminism by the time they get here, they make themselves easy marks.

 

Keep your trigger clean and cocked, and your powder dry.  Have fun, good luck to you.

Of all the books I have ever read, and there have been many, Private Dancer is probably

the one with the most uninformed BS ever written, imho of course.

[al007]

Ok I share a little, I am 72 on marriage no 4,(ten yrs and still going strong) to thai lady 30 yrs younger than me best thing to ever happen to me, I also retired at 50 yrs

 

Marriage no 1 got married New York United Nations two children 12 yrs of hell

 

No 2 wealthy english stock 13 yrs traveling the world on my yacht, had the life everyone envy she was manic depressive came of medication and after 13 yrs divorced

 

No 3 Russian, Israeli Jewish bitch from hell, lasted 18 mths and that was too long, divorced in Israel cost me 90% of world wide assets

 

No 4 , she went to work in BKK aged 13 yrs to send money home to Issan, met her in bar in Hua Hin, (She had been there two months)initially she lent me money, last ten years made money again,(on the stock markets)  most of my assets in my wifes name, we live together 24/7, I still quietly stray a little not dead yet, got a couple of cancers, last ten years best of my life, and in the past I have been there seen that done most of it

 

We have beautiful house, four Alsatians, two and a half servants, spend  way more than most travel a lot generally 5* deluxe, could not want more

 

The doom and gloom merchants on TV will say stupid man

 

My moral is follow your heart BUT be aware of the risks NOT all Thai ladies are bad, many falangs are !!

Edited April 17, 2017 by al007

[55Jay]

2 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

Of all the books I have ever read, and there have been many, Private Dancer is probably

the one with the most uninformed BS ever written, imho of course.

That seems to be the moral of the story.  I've heard that opinion before, but I saw it on a book trade shelf so I'm about 1/4 way through it right now.  He just plucked her out of Zombie bar at 10k/month. 

[mommysboy]

18 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

What was the question again? 

 

Oh right, anybody else have bad relationship experiences in Thailand?  The answer is obvious, especially here on TVF, which OP knows of course, but always a fun thread.   

 

It doesn't make you dumb or stupid if you fall into the same old, predictable traps that so many before you, and many after, have and will fall into. 

 

You are more than a bit daft if you keep doing that over and over again.  Even if you can afford it financially.  Money doesn't equate to common sense.  Neither does age indicate wisdom.  Age just happens.  

 

OP, have you ever heard of or read Stephen Leather book called Private Dancer?  I'm told you can get a free download.  Even at this point, check it out if you haven't already.  

 

At any rate OP, at least you've got a handle on it now. The most important word in your default lexicon here is "No".  Lots seem to forget that one, or are so puzzy whipped, or scared of being alone one day, or so beat down by western feminism by the time they get here, they make themselves easy marks.

 

Keep your trigger clean and cocked, and your powder dry.  Have fun, good luck to you.

It's a good read.

 

Sadly a little late as the horses have bolted- repeatedly. 

 

 

[Pilotman]

On 16 April 2017 at 9:13 AM, sipi said:

I had the exact same issues with Western women.

Then I met and married a Thai and lived happily ever after.

Shit happens, get on with it.

I agree . Mostly cynics and Thai battered people will answer you here. I have been happily married for many years with a Thai wife and a 19 year old half Thai daughter. We support her widowed mother and I have never regretted the marriage, the family support or the differences in culture. Fine loyal Thai woman are our there, millions of them, so never lose the wish or the search and when you do find the right one, or many of them, just move as cautiously as anyone should, in Thailand or any other country. 

[laislica]

18 hours ago, khunpa said:

All women in this world come at a cost... one way or the other. 

 

So many men come here to Thailand and think they can just buy their way to love and a long term relationship with a Thai woman. And once in the relationship they believe everything will just be easy.

 

Living with a Thai-woman and gaining her love and respect is MUCH harder than a non-mixed relationship. It requires tons of effort and sacrifice from both partners. Add to that language barriers, difference in cultures etc. Even the issue about where to live is a challenge.

 

The only advice I can give to the OP is to be 100% honest from the start and make his intentions and even financial abilities clear from the start. 

 

When I first met my wife, I told her exactly what she could expect. I also made it clear that I was not a walking ATM and she should not expect me to feed her entire family. She also made it clear to me what she wanted in a man, what she could bring to the relationship and that she would never want to leave Thailand. So if I wanted to be with her, I had to live in Thailand, which I accepted and was able to.

 

Today we are still happily married after 8 years. We have been through all sorts of troubles together during those years (also financially), but we still stay together no matter what. And I am sure it is due to our expectations being completely clear from the very beginning and us having aligned ideas of what we wanted from the relationship. Of course also being in love with each other also helped ;-)

 

And just for your info... There are many really decent non-gold digging Thai women out there. They just require real effort to catch. There is no easy way to love... not even with Thai-women. 

 

People saying that all Thai-women just want money or warning about single moms are just plain stupid. If you think like that, you will for sure narrow you chances of ever finding a real and loving relationship.

 

But if you expect a relationship to be easier with a Thai-woman, then you are in for a big surprise. On the other hand...If you do get lucky and find a Thai-woman that truly loves and respects you, then you will be a very happy man :-) They are fantastic wife's and moms...

 

 

Following a failed marriage (after 25 years), I too had a disastrous relationship with a lady from my home country but I now see that I needed that.

There was much that I needed to learn before I would be ready for a proper, lasting relationship.

And yes, much of our problems were down to me!

 

I agree 100% with khunpa that establishing a solid base of truth is the way to go IMHO.

 

We discussed out wishes, hopes, wants, needs etc. At 75, I am 20 years older than her and she had two sons and was divorced (had also worked abroad for a number of years in several countries).

Finally, after about a year, in addition to truth, our foundation added 100% mutual trust.

We can both relax in the knowledge that all is right with our world and that we are each better off together than apart!

We have been together for just over 5 years and going strong.

 

My wife is the eldest of a large family and at first she tried to hide family problems from me.

I had started to learn Thai online and realised what was what and we talked about it.

I explained that if I was aware of a problem brewing, I would be in a better position to accept it / help.

2 months after we had met, her Mum died and I helped the family with the funeral costs.

(Those little envelopes were gratefully received and actually paid the total cost of the funeral)

We married a year after we met and we spend half our time in Spain and the rest in Thailand.

 

Our plan is to try to make the other happy.....

As the saying goes:- Happy Wife, Happy Life!

(Happy Husband, Happy ATM? LOL)

 

Life is a string of compromises, I prefer Spain and of course my wife prefers Thailand, so we compromise.

 

I try not to control her. I taught her to feel that "She is the Boss".

My wife has a lot of control of everything whilst we are in Thailand and she takes care of me very well.

As do her family who live nearby. We don't have a car so other family members take us out on trips.

We pay for petrol, but not always.

One of her younger brothers (he is older than you by the way) is installing a new gas hob in our kitchen as I type.

It involves modification to close the aperture somewhat to accommodate the new one.

Metalwork, welding, concrete, tiling etc.... The cost is a trip to the restaurant with his family.

Couldn't be better. Everyone's happy!

 

In Spain we have a car and quite a few Thai friends so she is happy to be able to speak her native language from time to time.

We have a Skype subscription so she can call Thai mobiles and chat to family and friends whenever she likes.

 

We are both happy with our choices and compromises.

Of course, life is never perfect, wouldn't that be boring?

We do have little disagreements from time to time but we work through them.

 

In 2014, the youngest step son was murdered in Bangkok in one of those inter college gang fights and we had to rush back to Thailand for the funeral.

That was awful, but we got over it with mutual respect and support.

 

Try not to  fall in Lust!

You can date but take it slow, even rent to satisfy lust if need be.

 

I wanted a Thai lady to take care of me, she wanted a man to take care of her.

It started as a business arrangement which worked very well but as time passed, love grew.

 

If you cock things up, don't beat yourself up but forgive yourself and move on.

Same as you would do when (if) she cocks up.

Forgiveness is a glue to hold a relationship together.

Continually tell her if you are happy or not.

Ask the same of her.

Make her feel respected and wanted.

 

Best of luck

[NoshowJones]

1 hour ago, phuketjock said:

I am sorry I must disagree with this 99% of university degrees in this country are bought

and paid for by rich parents, no study involved, and probably lots of TV watching. Rich 

kids with zero life experience or respect for anyone.

 

I don't think anything like 99% of Uni degrees are bought, although I think many are, and that's why there are so many people in jobs they are not qualified for, I know for a fact that my wife was in full time education until she was 22, and has uni degrees, and her parents are not rich. In Thailand, some people get favours and promotions with brown envelopes, in Scotland, some people get favours and promotions using funny handshakes.

[AGareth2]

57 minutes ago, Laza 45 said:

30,000 Bt for school fees for 2 kids????   Keep you money and run!

 

lol

school fees time at the end of the month

30k wont cover 1

[robertson468]

My advice is stop rushing things.  Get to know your Girl not only well, but really well.  You should also sit back and look at your relationship and why it works, or doesn't.  If the former, keep going, if the latter, bail out quick.  Quite a lot of Thai Ladies find it a bit "status" to have a "farange" boyfriend/husband, which most of her Friends and Family will assume is loaded.  Great to start with, but not a premise on which to build a lasting relationship.

 

The key to the whole thing is "judgement".  Stop letting your nether regions over rule your brain.  Plus, would you buy a house/car or other expensive item without thoroughly checking it out.  The same goes for any future long term romantic attachment.  If you are driven by a high sex drive, there are plenty of "short time Ladies" who will be only too happy to help you get over your immediate and pressing needs, without forming a binding relationship and you make sure that they know that. 

 

Question you need to ask yourself..........are you falling in love too easily? 

 

I have been happily married to a Thai Lady for 12 years and we have a wonderful relationship and yes listening to some of the stories, I am lucky, but there again romance does not necessarily depend on race.  Both my Daughters in the UK have been married and divorced.  In the end they were just incompatible - ring a bell?

 

There are many lovely natured Thai Ladies out there, so keep trying, but do elevate your brain above your neck to allow yourself to make an objective and honest analysis of where the relationship is going and if it is achieving the majority of your expectations.

[phuketjock]

16 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

I don't think anything like 99% of Uni degrees are bought, although I think many are, and that's why there are so many people in jobs they are not qualified for, I know for a fact that my wife was in full time education until she was 22, and has uni degrees, and her parents are not rich. In Thailand, some people get favours and promotions with brown envelopes, in Scotland, some people get favours and promotions using funny handshakes.

Good on your missus if she was one of the 1% who graduated honestly but most do not.

I spent most of my working life in 2 companies that were riddled with free masons,one of

which i am not, so i am well aware of the unfair advantages given to those who brandish

the " funny handshakes "..................as you say leading to people being promoted far beyond

their capabilities.

Edited April 17, 2017 by phuketjock
correction

[ajarngreg]

7 minutes ago, robertson468 said:

My advice is stop rushing things.  Get to know your Girl not only well, but really well.  You should also sit back and look at your relationship and why it works, or doesn't.  If the former, keep going, if the latter, bail out quick.  Quite a lot of Thai Ladies find it a bit "status" to have a "farange" boyfriend/husband, which most of her Friends and Family will assume is loaded.  Great to start with, but not a premise on which to build a lasting relationship.

 

The key to the whole thing is "judgement".  Stop letting your nether regions over rule your brain.  Plus, would you buy a house/car or other expensive item without thoroughly checking it out.  The same goes for any future long term romantic attachment.  If you are driven by a high sex drive, there are plenty of "short time Ladies" who will be only too happy to help you get over your immediate and pressing needs, without forming a binding relationship and you make sure that they know that. 

 

Question you need to ask yourself..........are you falling in love too easily? 

 

I have been happily married to a Thai Lady for 12 years and we have a wonderful relationship and yes listening to some of the stories, I am lucky, but there again romance does not necessarily depend on race.  Both my Daughters in the UK have been married and divorced.  In the end they were just incompatible - ring a bell?

 

There are many lovely natured Thai Ladies out there, so keep trying, but do elevate your brain above your neck to allow yourself to make an objective and honest analysis of where the relationship is going and if it is achieving the majority of your expectations.

 

Or in short. Why buying a whole cow, when you only want to have a glass of milk? You're right. 

[speckio]

Step 1. 

Stop going to bars/brothels to find girls! (most of these girls have horrible upbringing and low morals)

 

Step 2.

find a woman who can take care of herself and someone who isn't looking for someone to take care of her.

 

Step 3.

stop being a bleeding heart and letting people take advantage of you.

 

 

 

[ajarngreg]

1 minute ago, speckio said:

Step 1. 

Stop going to bars/brothels to find girls! (most of these girls have horrible upbringing and low morals)

 

Step 2.

find a woman who can take care of herself and someone who isn't looking for someone to take care of her.

 

Step 3.

stop being a bleeding heart and letting people take advantage of you.

 

 

 

 

Step 4

 

  Learn from your mistakes. 

[alantan88]

I do have same fate as u. 

[todlad]

On Sunday, April 16, 2017 at 2:39 PM, SiamBeast said:

(..) Naive

(..) Guillible

(..) Very stupid

(X) All of the above

 

First, here is my #1 hint. And it applies to any man: Since you can afford to have higher standards in Thailand than in your home country, stop dating single moms. They're train wrecks, financial dead-ends. The "cheating" argument isn't valid, because by dating a single mom, you're a cuckold right at the start. She's just "reminding" you that fact when she cheats on you.

 

Next, I wouldn't recommend bringing a Thai girl to your home country  for extended periods of time. While there's nothing explicitely wrong in doing it, there is a possibility that she might discover "better farangs" since she's surrounded by them, and get poisoned by "social cancers" like equality, feminism, hypergamy, etc. and will start adopting the values, think about freedom, and eventually leave you. Unless you live in a pretty conservative country, stay in Thailand with her.

 

Next, never put assets in a girl's name. Not even a family member. It should be under your name only. If legal restrictions prevent you from doing so, hire a lawyer to set up a Thai companies and (if needed) have nominees in place with a bulletproof contract. If you have no money to pay for a corporate lawyer, you have no money to start a business. You'll sleep better at night knowing that you're the only one in control of your assets.

 

Next, if you get married, have a prenup! This little piece of paper will cost you 30,000 baht but will save you millions if your wife decides to go rogue. Basically the prenup states that what's yours is yours, what's hers is hers, and she has "no right to attempt to take any share in your assets in any mean". Basically, no alimony, no child support, etc. You're eliminating one more incentive for her to leave.

 

Next, "dowry", a.ka. "sin sot", is only for virgins. While you can offer something to her family as a "good will gesture" if she's second-hand, you're not required to show money at the wedding. A family who will refuse to let her daughter marry is a family you don't want to marry into, so consider this a favor from them.

 

Next, girls you meet in bars are good for short-term amusement, but NEVER for relationships. It's just too much drama. You can get the girl out of the bar, but you can't get the bar out of the girl. What goes around comes around.

 

Wish you the best, but if I may ask, how old are you? (Just an age  bracket)

 

P.S. A lot of young men (like when I arrived here) who want some quick adventure just look on ThaiFriendly and Tinder for single moms due to their "easiness" for one night stands, i.e. a zero-effort adventure when we don't feel like going through the formal 2-date process. This means that the single moms you guys are dating probably had 10 to 15 men pass on them before - talk about a big eskimo brother family. If you date them, it's a bit like going to 7-eleven, taking the expired pint of milk to the counter and offering to pay double for it.

 

This is the best advice among some other good advice.

 

I told Mrs Todlad from the outset that i would never take to live in the UK. I am, no surprise, older than her and she is very attractive. Then there are men who will steal any woman and if the woman wants to be stolen; well, there you are.

 

The other perfect point is that you don't need a wife quick quick. You can live on street food if you don't cook. Cleaners and laundries are cheap. You can rent/buy somewhere very pleasant to live. Have a takeaway now and again if you can't hold it in.

 

As for asking you for 15,000 and 30,000 Baht! You didn't: well done.

 

Good luck!

[thurien]

On 16.4.2017 at 2:23 PM, PomPolo said:

my cynical side would say that a Thai ladies second god after buddha is baht, it is this sort of cynicism I am trying to avoid

 

you're too much of a good guy

[cruisemonkey]

I won't comment on the OP's cognitive abilities. However, it seems to me the 'solution' is for him to start thinking with the head on the TOP of his body. 

[puffy]

19 hours ago, SiamBeast said:

^ Definitely. Here are some of them:

 

- Virgin

- Can cook

- Enjoys cleaning

- Parents still married

- Attended a good university

- Good English (if you don't speak Thai)

 

But before looking at green flags, you must ensure that she has none of the red flags, otherwise you'll be wasting your time.

Are you a Virgin?

Can you cook?

Do you enjoy cleaning?

Are your parents married?

Did you attend a good University?

Are you good at Thai?

 

[irwinfc]

OP, you're all three. you can also add obstinate. you've had the "pleasure" of having four relationships with three women, yet you managed to have your money taken and your heart broken on every occasion.

[SiamBeast]

6 minutes ago, puffy said:

Are you a Virgin?

Can you cook?

Do you enjoy cleaning?

Are your parents married?

Did you attend a good University?

Are you good at Thai?

 

 

Men don't have to.

 

You can call it double standard if you like, but that's how things are.

 

In exchange, men have other obligations that women do not have. For example:

- Having enough money to support a family

- Having the means to ensure that the wife doesn't have to work when the kids are young

- Being smart enough to make appropriate decisions for the family

- Being fit enough to carry physical tasks

- Knowing how to fix things in the house

- In short, just being a good masculine figure in the household.

 

This, my friend, is called "gender roles" and is what makes healthy families.

[hawker9000]

There's simply a very deep and very basic cultural divide that most farangs in search of relationships fail to appreciate.  And in most cases, if they did appreciate it, they would never undertake the relationships. 'Probably an almost unbridgeable class divide as well.   The OP is a classic example.  The 'love conquers all' mentality is a recipe for disaster here.  But it's a matter of personal choice, so it will keep happening, no matter how well and frequently these debacles are recounted here and elsewhere.  Some just don't realize how deep the water is until they're  in well over their heads with a big rock firmly tied around their ankles.

[puffy]

5 minutes ago, SiamBeast said:

 

Men don't have to.

 

You can call it double standard if you like, but that's how things are.

 

In exchange, men have other obligations that women do not have. For example:

- Having enough money to support a family

- Having the means to ensure that the wife doesn't have to work when the kids are young

- Being smart enough to make appropriate decisions for the family

- Being fit enough to carry physical tasks

- Knowing how to fix things in the house

- In short, just being a good masculine figure in the household.

 

This, my friend, is called "gender roles" and is what makes healthy families.

You must be living in some kind of time warp.

Firstly if you want a Virgin that will rule out about 99 percent of anybody over 16, but hey if that is your thing.

Who loves cleaning?

There are no good Universities in Thailand( see international tables) so will have to have been educated abroad.

And as someone else said not if they have lived in the west for more than 2 years.

Unfortunately this criteria has ruled out every Thai person.

[SiamBeast]

- Being a virgin: My wife was one when I met her (28 y.o.). Just like 75% of her friends. Don't get me started with the "fake" thing, I am convinced of my thing.

- Enjoying cleaning: Not sure if that's real, but at least she does it with a smile. If she doesn't enjoy it, at least she fakes it very well.

- University: She graduated from Thammasat - not the best in the world but still better than nothing, anyway there are more important things in life.

- Having lived in the West: I am talking about America and Western Europe mostly - but my wife never left the country before meeting me.

 

At her last birthday party (31 y.o.) last month, 9 of her girl friends came. Out of those 9, three satisfy all the criteria above, and 2 satisfy 3 out of 4 of them.

Edited April 17, 2017 by SiamBeast

[Clarinet man]

On 16/04/2017 at 4:30 PM, binjalin said:

for God's sake man RENT don't BUY

 

can't believe anyone would even attempt a relationship (yes I know there are some blissfully happy) with a Thai

 

remember money is NUMBER 1 here and love goes out the window as soon as poverty knocks on the door (or they think they hear that knock) 

 

be self-contained and love those who prove loyalty over time and true love has nothing to do with 'romance' so leave that back in your teens - good luck 

My friend  , I'm afraid  he is wright 

The only words of advice  I have is ""why buy a Cow when milk is so cheap "

 You may get lucky  but the odds are against  you.  

On 16/04/2017 at 4:30 PM, binjalin said:

for God's sake man RENT don't BUY

 

can't believe anyone would even attempt a relationship (yes I know there are some blissfully happy) with a Thai

 

remember money is NUMBER 1 here and love goes out the window as soon as poverty knocks on the door (or they think they hear that knock) 

 

be self-contained and love those who prove loyalty over time and true love has nothing to do with 'romance' so leave that back in your teens - good luck 

My friend,  I'm afraid he is right 

The only advise  I have is, "why buy a cow when milk is so cheap "

 You may get lucky  but the odds are against  you.  

  The moment they're out of sight they going down on another!  

Sorry  for the hard line! 

[DSJPC]

how about ALL OF THE ABOVE!!!...did ur mother ever have any kids that lived???

[puffy]

11 minutes ago, SiamBeast said:

- Being a virgin: My wife was one when I met her (28 y.o.). Just like 75% of her friends. Don't get me started with the "fake" thing, I am convinced of my thing.

- Enjoying cleaning: Not sure if that's real, but at least she does it with a smile. If she doesn't enjoy it, at least she fakes it very well.

- University: She graduated from Thammasat - not the best in the world but still better than nothing, anyway there are more important things in life.

- Having lived in the West: I am talking about America and Western Europe mostly - but my wife never left the country before meeting me.

 

At her last birthday party (31 y.o.) last month, 9 of her girl friends came. Out of those 9, three satisfy all the criteria above, and 2 satisfy 3 out of 4 of them.

Ha ha ha, seriously a 28 year old virgin and 75 percent of her friends are virgins.

Your village is missing its idiot.

 

[NOWHERE]

On 4/16/2017 at 5:52 PM, worgeordie said:

If you need to have a partner,just keep looking,but stop spending

so much on them,the odds are you will find the right one,there are

good ones out there,ones you can trust,that will be faithful,are not

after your money,I found mine 30 years ago,she's a saver not a spender,

honest as the day is long,does not shirk work,excellent mother and wife,

I am a very lucky man.  and good luck to you.

regards Worgeordie

Cool. Another man who won the lottery. They are out there, I lucked on one and wouldn't give her up for quids. 

[Laza 45]

I just did some checking... for Matyom (High School) in out town.. with 4 or 5 big schools .. the #2 school where we sent our daughter there are several levels of fees.. depending on class size, subjects offered and the standard of teachers you get..  the top level would cost about 10,000 a term per child plus uniforms and books... so at that rate there wouldn't be much change out of your 30,000 for 2 high school students.. ...   a lower level would be considerably cheaper and for Pathom (elementary) it would be cheaper still..  so a bit difficult to make an educated guess on what it would cost her for her 2 kids unless you know the level of education she expects and their ages..  30,000 would be top of the range.. here anyway...

[tonray]

Look for a girl who has a track record of achievement and supporting herself. Ask yourself why you want to be with someone who has never been able to take care of themselves. University degree means nothing, the ability to survive with a record of career achievement is the key. 

 

Do you have things in common ? Any of the same interests ? Similar personality types ?

 

There is nothing wrong with helping a girl or her family if she is also working to do the same and you plan how to do it together, ie a joint fund that you both contribute to from earnings every month toward a goal. Just giving a load of cash away makes no sense except if you are donating to a charity and that is not a way to have a relationship.

 

I wish you good luck and hope you find your way.

[tandor]

On 4/16/2017 at 2:05 PM, PomPolo said:

 

Completely fair - and I am changing my attitude a lot, but I do love the country and don't want to become cynical, bitter and twisted towards any future relationship, I love the country and the people and am trying my best not to let my relationship experiences reflect on my opinion of what is my favourite country in the world.

..try to be stronger and try to resist the temptations which obviously have played on your generous nature.