Special Report: Phuket hospitals facing huge losses from uninsured patients

[notmyself]

17 minutes ago, free123 said:

so ,you say in GB hospitals are free for tourists...??? hey I dont think so   ... off what i heard in television and read in various newspapers over the last ten years paints a complete different picture...yes the GB health service was among one of the best in the world where everybody would receive free treatment tourists and locals alike.....but these days are long , very long gone, today their system over there seems to be so lousy even locals have to travel to Germany to do certain operations cause only the very very rich will be prefered cause they pay cash the rest is almost as worst off than in a third world country....correct me if i am wrong....

 

I'll give it a crack.

 

My Dear Sir, what are you on about. If anyone manages to make it to UK hospital in a state of disrepair then they are treated. Are you American? 

 

[elgordo38]

2 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

ore fake news. OR are we seriously led to believe that $123,000 in unpaid bills for the entire year is a HUGE loss for a hospital ?. Because anyone that has run a business with more than a handful of staff knows that that is the cost of running a business. Some people don't pay......get over it.

The Thai media (and some wierdo posters on this forum) seem completely focused on trying to blame foreigners for everything negative that happens in this country. Even this meaningless amount is blown way out of proportion. 

 

But before the TV wierdos going pointing out the fact that these people got treatment for free, I'd like to hear how much the same hospital got in revenue from the foreign patients it did treat ? 

hmm excellent point. 

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, ujayujay said:

Its a Fact: Many Westerner Expats and Tourists are that naiv to think, it is not necessary to have a Insurance. Think: Whats about your Homecountry; is this common? It is an insolence to demand that thailand pay for uninsured foreign patients, because the insurance costs are too high for some of those. what a silly argument.

You, like most other posters in this thread, have conveniently overlooked the nationalities most likely to have caused the subject problem, in fact in the case of Phuket it is clear that lowly paid workers from Myanmar are probably the cause. Soooo, when you write, "It is an insolence to demand that thailand pay for uninsured foreign patients, because the insurance costs are too high for some of those. what a silly argument", does that include the Burmese, or are you being selective with respect to insolent nationalities!

[Chongalulu]

4 hours ago, henry15 said:

So if some drunk idiot on a motorbike who even don't wear an helmet, has an accident, he should not  have to pay for his medical bills.

The individual you quote here wouldn't be covered by his travel insurance even if sober and wearing a helmet. Most policies exclude motorcycles.

[Time Traveller]

1 hour ago, digger70 said:

Why not make it compulsory for everyone that travels to Thailand or any other country that one must have Travel insurance for their duration of their Holiday stay,and foreigners living in other countries the government of that country should make the same  insurance possible  as for their own people instead of the Ripoff insurance that one has or can't pay because one can't get a decent Insurance in that country ,like Thailand.

 

Why?

1. Because being forced to pay for something you don't want is extortion.

2. Because insurers exist only to make a profit,

3. Because when everyone is forced to pay for something, then guess what ? The price of that thing will go through the roof as the suppliers raise prices.

4. Because hospitals will know that their patients are not paying the bill and then they can raise their hospital bills because insurers will pick up the bill and just raise their premiums to cover the rising healthcare prices..

 

Anyone who lived in America during the Obamacare experiment knows all of these things.  

 

There is only one way to keep health care prices affordable AND stop patients walking out without paying. It's to make sure every patient pays upfront.

Sorry, as heartless as that sounds, you are either in business to make a profit or in business to help people. You can't mix up the 2  and then complain when both of them don't work out.  

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

Why?

1. Because being forced to pay for something you don't want is extortion.

2. Because insurers exist only to make a profit,

3. Because when everyone is forced to pay for something, then guess what ? The price of that thing will go through the roof as the suppliers raise prices.

4. Because hospitals will know that their patients are not paying the bill and then they can raise their hospital bills because insurers will pick up the bill and just raise their premiums to cover the rising healthcare prices..

 

Anyone who lived in America during the Obamacare experiment knows all of these things.  

 

There is only one way to keep health care prices affordable AND stop patients walking out without paying. It's to make sure every patient pays upfront.

Sorry, as heartless as that sounds, you are either in business to make a profit or in business to help people. You can't mix up the 2  and then complain when both of them don't work out.  

The hospital in question is not a private one, it's a governement hospital. Does that change your picture?

[chilli42]

Every business I have ever worked in has bad debt that they have to provision for and eventually 'eat'.  It's so pervasive it's effectively built into the price of goods (indirectly).  Is it infuriating?  Sure it is. There are deadbeats everywhere.  Thailand is a magnet for them (talking about foreigners here).  Want to end bad debt, stop taking on new customers.  Don't like that option (or can't in the case of life and death)?  Then stop complaining and focus on your paying customers.

[notmyself]

6 minutes ago, teddog said:

Dunno know 'bout anyfink,  but I enjoy a fair bit of ding-dong..keeps the ticker in good health,would not get that back at 'ome

I hear you mate.

 

6 minutes ago, Time Traveller said:

 

1. Because being forced to pay for something you don't want is extortion.

  

 

Another word for taxation.... You wouldn't happen to be a Republican by any chance?  

[notmyself]

4 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

Every business I have ever worked in has bad debt that they have to provision for and eventually 'eat'.  It's so pervasive it's effectively built into the price of goods (indirectly).  Is it infuriating?

 

That would depend on the data. I worked for myself and would include relative risk in the price.

[Thaidream]

Health care is a human right everywhere and is so declared under the UN declaration. Thailand wants hug amounts of tourists and with that comes the risk that as a country you have to take care of them when they become ill. If you don't want to- then add on a small fee to the Visa which can be used in a pool to cover medical care. That fee will generate a huge amount of money- much more than they claim they are losing.

At the same time anyone living in Thailand as a retiree and getting a pension should automatically be covered by their countries medicare system but we know that the countries refuse to. Thailand should simply send the home country medicare the bill and demand payment or allow foreigners to buy into Thailand's Social Security system.

 

There are many ways to solve this issue- people in the World move from country to country. A UN agreement on medical reimbursement could also solve the problem.

Instead of hospitals complaining- why don't they become proactive and come up with some innovative solutions that do not put patients at risk.

 

Until profit is completely taken out of the Worldwide medical system and greed is allowed to rule- this issue will never be solved- yet several solutions do exist.

[Wallander4]

Since many tourists have accidents on rented bikes, why not ask for bike license since Insurance dont cover if driver have no license ...

 

Answer: They will loose too many costumers and as usual thai think they can get it all 

[smedly]

1 hour ago, little mary sunshine said:

Every visitor should be charged for travel or health

insurance.  Perhaps 250B per week..to be paid with

their entry visa.  Part of the problem solved.  

 

 

All retirees must give peoof of health insurance or, 

in order to get an O or O-A Visa for retirement they

should be required to put an additional B800,000 in

an account specifically for hospitalization.  If you

don' have the required B65K per month you would

need to have 1.6M in accounts to retire to Thailand.

 

This should help with the outstanding bills from

foreigners.  It should also help send a lot of the

low class riff-raff to other SE Coumtries making 

Thailand a nicer place to retire.

 

 

 

 

I know exactly what I would like to do with you

 

Probably never done a days work in your life retired on some mans hard work and got it all handed to you - I know your type 

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, masuk said:

How very true.  Even the airlines won't insure you for travel only,  once you are 75.

I've been zapped twice through faulty electrical wiring, wrecked a pair of expensive glasses on a Chiang Mai footpath pothole, gave up the m/bike 2 years ago.    It's never boring!!

The airlines could insure for events other than sickness, if they wanted to be flexible in taking your $ !

Give people a choice!

 

If Thai hospitals (for public services) are going broke then central Government needs to revise their funding arrangements. Don't ask a dedicated health service to cut back on normal services that also affect local peoples!

[notmyself]

13 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

The airlines could insure for events other than sickness, if they wanted to be flexible in taking your $ !

Give people a choice!

 

No money in it mate.

 

I'd like to know who these people are... tourists or ex pats or what?

[lvr181]

3 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 

No money in it mate.

 

I'd like to know who these people are... tourists or ex pats or what?

Charge virtually the same premium and they would be creaming it. 

[padamphet]

22 hours ago, smedly said:

If a Thai goes to the UK on holiday they will be treated in hospital like everyone else, the difference being that the likelihood of something happening to them is vastly different.

Well I am not sure about UK but in France (wich have one of the best social protection in the world according to Euro Health Consumer Index )  we don' t offer this for free, hospital will treat patient of course but will ask for them to pay the bill of course ! Same as in Thailand, nothing wrong here. And tourism have nothing to do with it , don't mix things up please. The money from the tourism don't go in the hospital pocket !? Are you asking for FREE HOSPITAL for all tourist ? I don't get it ....

 

[notmyself]

2 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

Charge virtually the same premium and they would be creaming it. 

 Thus creating a den of iniquity.

[Flustered]

Some very simple people here who think health care insurance is a black and white situation.

 

No two people are in the same position with regards to health and how they will deal with problems.

 

Insurance is a quandary for myself and my wife. We are in the middle of our plans to fully retire to Chiang Rai and insurance is one of the last hurdles to be crossed. We are both 70, have some existing medical issues that are fully under control with medication and diet. We lead an active life and hope for a good few years yet ahead of us.

 

Health insurance minus our existing issues will cost us around 22,500 baht per month rising with age. This would include a 50,00 baht deductible. We can afford to put aside around 300,000/year for medical bills in our Thai budget so provided we lead a safe healthy life for a few years, we could have a fund of 1.5 million baht in just 5 years. We also have savings off shore that could be used in the case of emergency.

 

So why should we give away 270,000 baht a year when we can cover bills ourselves?

 

A more simple answer would be for the Thai government to offer an insurance policy to retired ex pats that would cover basic medical needs for an emergency hospital visit. Unlike American insurance policies, this should not be a use it or lose it policy but a simple emergency policy. No one in their right mind would fake an injury just to use a basic medical insurance.

 

As I said, every ex pat is different so don't make assumptions that it is black or white.

 

[NoshowJones]

22 hours ago, smedly said:

This country makes a huge amount of money from tourists, it is a vital part of GDP and has been the case for decades, the problem is that there are no safety standards or at least they are not enforced making Thailand (no matter how much they claim otherwise) and extremely dangerous place to holiday.

 

The costs quoted in the OP are not only tiny but are very likely exaggerated, when you consider the actual cost in terms of labour and materials without profit it is no where near what they are quoting.

 

Yes people should have insurance when they go on holiday but equally there is a duty of care to keep visitors safe when they visit Thailand, when they are injured through no fault of their own then Thailand should be willing to step up and compensate. 

 

They have gotten away with this for far too long, they have had decades to improve things but instead stuffed the money in their greedy pockets showing no consideration to improve their health and safety.........and yes I for once agree in this instance of that commonly used Thai phrase - well if they hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened so it must be their fault, might be time for people to rethink their holiday destinations.

 

If a Thai goes to the UK on holiday they will be treated in hospital like everyone else, the difference being that the likelihood of something happening to them is vastly different.

 

 

So a few million here and there .................so what, you are making trillions in tourism.

Post of the month here.

[lvr181]

10 minutes ago, notmyself said:

 Thus creating a den of iniquity.

Show me the den without iniquity 

[dageurreotype]

5 hours ago, RigPig said:

I understand your reasoning but at what point do people take the responsibility for their own actions?  Do you think it is OK for people to come here and expect free medical care when Thailand hasn't the infrastructure of countries like England or Australis etc.  The first thing you have to show to get into Aus is that you will not be a burden on the free medical system.  NONE of these people have or will pay tax here!  My medical insurance costs me $500US a month, and that is my choice, and it doesn't cover me for pre existing conditions either...

If you're White here it really doesn't matter how much responsibility one is prepared to take for one's 'own actions'. Mechanic messed up, brakes failed/wheel fell off and your vehicle ploughed into Somchai's pickup/someone's wall? You pay, no recourse to suing local mechanic. None. Death by bedbug spray? Ditto. And you get to pay tenfold more than anyone else. Together with the fact that no hospital here is regulated, they can charge what they like/think they can get away with. This together with Phuket having the most expensive hospitals in Thailand (even the same company, Bangkok Hospital charges 25% more here than their branches in the capital) make Phuket a very expensive/rip off tourist/expat destination.

[realenglish1]

Here is how to solve the problem Charge each visitor 250 baht for their visit to Thailand as  medical insurance If there are 30 million vacationers that ads up to 

75,000,000 baht More than enough to cover the costs the hospitals incur from vacationers

 

This is not rocket science  But will the Thais implement such a scheme? Likely not . The reason is simple . Its too logical

[dageurreotype]

1 minute ago, realenglish1 said:

Here is how to solve the problem Charge each visitor 250 baht for their visit to Thailand as  medical insurance If there are 30 million vacationers that ads up to 

75,000,000 baht More than enough to cover the costs the hospitals incur from vacationers

 

This is not rocket science  But will the Thais implement such a scheme? Likely not . The reason is simple . Its too logical

Lol. These posts suggesting visitors to this country cough up some fee to be used in case of medical emergencies. How long have you lived here? Do you seriously believe any such 'pot' won't immediately be plundered/found wanting because, well, farang are rich and can afford to lose it.

[Flustered]

6 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

Here is how to solve the problem Charge each visitor 250 baht for their visit to Thailand as  medical insurance If there are 30 million vacationers that ads up to 

75,000,000 baht More than enough to cover the costs the hospitals incur from vacationers

 

This is not rocket science  But will the Thais implement such a scheme? Likely not . The reason is simple . Its too logical

There would be an added benefit to charging tourists on entry or visa application, and that would be the exclusion of free loading backpackers who live off other ex pats and whatever else they can scrounge. Note I said freeloading and not all.

[little mary sunshine]

1 hour ago, smedly said:

I know exactly what I would like to do with you

 

Probably never done a days work in your life retired on some mans hard work and got it all handed to you - I know your type 

You know absolutely NOTHING!!  Yes, I will

never have to look at a price tag for the rest of

my life, I live well and travel extensively,  and

I have earned every cent MYSELF.  

 

Part of the riff-raff....Are You!

 

[teddog]

This of course is private hospitals,where they keep you as long as possible,for as much as possible,lock you up until they get their money,only way out is to be kidnapped.  Not talking here of govt. hospitals

 

  Everything possible to inflate that bill,prescriptions at 10xs the local pharmacy price...hijacked after accident to one of these damned places,once through their doors  credit card is maxxed

[notmyself]

1 minute ago, padamphet said:

Well I am not sure about UK but in France (wich have one of the best social protection in the world according to Euro Health Consumer Index )  we don' t offer this for free, hospital will treat patient of course but will ask for them to pay the bill of course ! Same as in Thailand, nothing wrong here. And tourism have nothing to do with it , don't mix things up please. The money from the tourism don't go in the hospital pocket !? Are you asking for FREE HOSPITAL for all tourist ? I don't get it ....

 

 

Very interesting and thank you for the post. I'm British, we do effectively offer this service and it costs a shedload. Really good at saving lives but bad at getting paid for doing it. The health sector generates a good income for the UK but you are always going to have a percentage who don't pay so you factor that into the business model.  Think about what that means in a social construct insofar that many of the people couldn't pay, rather than being unwilling to pay. Universal health care in a True sense of the word universal..........

 

Universal health care, sometimes referred to as universal health coverage, universal coverage, or universal care, usually refers to a health care system which provides health care and financial protection to all citizens of a particular country. It is organized around providing a specified package of benefits to all members of a society with the end goal of providing financial risk protection, improved access to health services, and improved health outcomes.^[2] Universal health care is not one-size-fits-all and does not imply coverage for all people for everything. Universal health care can be determined by three critical dimensions: who is covered, what services are covered, and how much of the cost is covered.^[2] It is described by the World Health Organization as a situation where citizens can access health services without incurring financial hardship.^[3] U.N. member states have agreed to work toward universal health coverage by 2030.^[4]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care

 

People here on holiday would be insured through their credit card anyway wouldn't they?

 

 

 

[little mary sunshine]

2 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

Why?

1. Because being forced to pay for something you don't want is extortion.

2. Because insurers exist only to make a profit,

3. Because when everyone is forced to pay for something, then guess what ? The price of that thing will go through the roof as the suppliers raise prices.

4. Because hospitals will know that their patients are not paying the bill and then they can raise their hospital bills because insurers will pick up the bill and just raise their premiums to cover the rising healthcare prices..

 

Anyone who lived in America during the Obamacare experiment knows all of these things.  

 

There is only one way to keep health care prices affordable AND stop patients walking out without paying. It's to make sure every patient pays upfront.

Sorry, as heartless as that sounds, you are either in business to make a profit or in business to help people. You can't mix up the 2  and then complain when both of them don't work out.  

If everyone is required to have travel insurance, than the

hospitals will be paid if there is an accident and every

traveler is protected in Thailand...Win Win situation.

[lvr181]

15 minutes ago, realenglish1 said:

Here is how to solve the problem Charge each visitor 250 baht for their visit to Thailand as  medical insurance If there are 30 million vacationers that ads up to 

75,000,000 baht More than enough to cover the costs the hospitals incur from vacationers

 

This is not rocket science  But will the Thais implement such a scheme? Likely not . The reason is simple . Its too logical

"But will the Thais implement such a scheme? Likely not. The reason is simple. Its too logical"

 

And it is farang idea - not really welcome here, unfortunately.

[notmyself]

25 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

Show me the den without iniquity