Special Report: Phuket hospitals facing huge losses from uninsured patients

[simoh1490]

5 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

If everyone is required to have travel insurance, than the

hospitals will be paid if there is an accident and every

traveler is protected in Thailand...Win Win situation.

Perhaps a new business opportunity in the making, selling medical health insurance to Burmese and Cambodian construction workers in Phuket, I'm certain they'll see it as a win win situation!!!

[little mary sunshine]

2 hours ago, Psimbo said:

What a bigoted and ignorant reply.

 

So- send people to other countries with an even lower level of health care and lack of resources thereby putting a strain on those resources. Farkin brilliant!  

It would get the low life's out of Thailand ;  Thailand would be a

much nicer Country finally attracting quality travelers and

retirees.  Let the low life's return to their own countries where

their Health Care is provided.

[little mary sunshine]

17 minutes ago, teddog said:

This of course is private hospitals,where they keep you as long as possible,for as much as possible,lock you up until they get their money,only way out is to be kidnapped.  Not talking here of govt. hospitals

 

  Everything possible to inflate that bill,prescriptions at 10xs the local pharmacy price...hijacked after accident to one of these damned places,once through their doors  credit card is maxxed

The BUSINESS of medicine...It happens the world over!!!

[notmyself]

15 minutes ago, little mary sunshine said:

It would get the low life's out of Thailand ;  Thailand would be a

much nicer Country finally attracting quality travelers and

retirees.  Let the low life's return to their own countries where

their Health Care is provided.

 

Far out

[Thaidream]

It appears some people think they are capable of determining who should be in Thailand or other countries. I don't believe anyone  should be denigrating another because you do not agree with their lifestyle; where they come from or other extraneous reasons. That is how discrimination and bigotry start.

The issue of healthcare for all transcends Thailand and is the heart of discussion in many countries. America has the most expensive healthcare system in the World and should never be the primer for any country to use. Europe , Canada and Japan has one of the best health care systems in the World- no insurance companies involved- and pad for by taxes .This is the only system that will ever work anywhere and it actually works quite adequately in Thailand through their Social SEcurity system and the 30 Baht scheme.

 

As I mentioned earlier- healthcare is a human right. Everyone has to agree this is the case and take profit and greed out of the current system. As far as expats in Thailand, the simple solution is allowing a buy in to the Thai Social Security System which would be low cost to the expat.  No insurance companies involved- their days are numbered anyway because the World is waking up to the complete lack of adequate coverage they really provide,

 

Tourist coming to Thailand could easily pay into a 'pot' as one of the posters mentioned say 250 Baht per visit and that would cover their medical needs.

 

In addition, expats on medicare; their National Health Coverage; or any other type of  coverage from their home  country need to petition their country representatives to amend their laws to provide coverage Worldwide. I know as an American- I have already paid for it via my taxes when working . This is a win for governments becuase their citizens get treatment overseas that is much less costly than they can get in their home country.

 

Any country (such as the US) that depends on private insurance is in league  with the 'greed is good' crowd because private insurance exists solely for profit as does most hospitals and Big Pharma. Until this unholy alliance is broken- mankind will continue to suffer with inadequate healthcare that is way overpriced and denied to certain segments of the population.

 

This problem is solvable only if as I mentioned you start with the premise that Healthcare is a human right just as education; freedom of thought and speech and other inalienable rights. It's time to put insurance companies and big Pharma on notice that they cannot continue to bilk consumers any longer.

[hhinhh]

20 hours ago, the guest said:

If the government was smart, it would make it compulsory for all foreigners to have full insurance before a visa would be granted. It solves a lot of problems.

That is what I am afraid of as such headlines will be the excuse for more bureaucracy. And it would extend the cues at Swapy tremedously.

[little mary sunshine]

5 minutes ago, hhinhh said:

That is what I am afraid of as such headlines will be the excuse for more bureaucracy. And it would extend the cues at Swapy tremedously.

Bureaucracy might be slightly increased, not the cues...

Just 30 day visa add 1500B health insurance, 90 day 4500B

Next! 

[Dan5]

21 hours ago, the guest said:

If the government was smart, it would make it compulsory for all foreigners to have full insurance before a visa would be granted. It solves a lot of problems.

Might also kill tourism. They mention in the article that many countries do require proof of insurance for tourists. But many don't. Some examples. USA, Japan.

[A1Str8]

I have never had insurance. Whenever I was treated, upon checking out I got into a hospital car, they took me home, I got the money then we went back and I paid. 

[Eli1]

Simple solution anyone with no insurance you don't let them in, or they buy insurance on the spot if you want to enter the country problem solved.

[moe666]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

sorry but I do blame Thais for that, he should never have been allowed to hire the bike in the first place, go to the UK (were laws are enforced) and try to hire a big motorbike - unless you have a proper licence and take out insurance you have no mission because you would be breaking the law and even then try riding said motorbike without a helmet plastered out of your head speeding around the city center like a lunatic and you will end up in jail

 

I 100% do blame Thailand

So no responsibility for the tourist to follow the law.Yes there are laws for everything you mentioned, enforcement is another matter.

[hawker9000]

On 4/18/2017 at 3:46 PM, smedly said:

This country makes a huge amount of money from tourists, it is a vital part of GDP and has been the case for decades, the problem is that there are no safety standards or at least they are not enforced making Thailand (no matter how much they claim otherwise) and extremely dangerous place to holiday.

 

The costs quoted in the OP are not only tiny but are very likely exaggerated, when you consider the actual cost in terms of labour and materials without profit it is no where near what they are quoting.

 

Yes people should have insurance when they go on holiday but equally there is a duty of care to keep visitors safe when they visit Thailand, when they are injured through no fault of their own then Thailand should be willing to step up and compensate. 

 

They have gotten away with this for far too long, they have had decades to improve things but instead stuffed the money in their greedy pockets showing no consideration to improve their health and safety.........and yes I for once agree in this instance of that commonly used Thai phrase - well if they hadn't come to Thailand it wouldn't have happened so it must be their fault, might be time for people to rethink their holiday destinations.

 

If a Thai goes to the UK on holiday they will be treated in hospital like everyone else, the difference being that the likelihood of something happening to them is vastly different.

 

 

So a few million here and there .................so what, you are making trillions in tourism.

Many perfectly valid points there.  But there's blame on both sides, and we're all aware of foreigners coming to Thailand with pre-existing conditions and a complete failure to have any provisions in for place for their own potential medical needs. Irresponsible travelers who end up unable to pay their just debts are deadbeats and ultimately make life that much harder for everyone else, just like long overstayers.  The moment the hospital releases them, they should be turned over to Immigration for detention, revocation of visas & permits, deportation, and blacklisting.  If that means they leave property behind, seize it, sell it, and put the proceeds toward the debt.  If they want to come back, they can pay up (yeap, with interest and fees).

 

DO this, and in time the problem will slow to a trickle.

[simoh1490]

How extraordinary this thread is, every single poster wants to comment on the need for health insurance for western (farang) expats and tourists  yet NOBODY wants to comment on the real source of the issues raised in the OP nor its already well understood cause, if indeed there is a real (financial) problem in the first place! What's all that about I wonder: farangs thinking they are the centre of the universe perhaps; lack of knowledge about Thailand and all that entails; inability to read and comprehend the OP and the entire thread....... it's very troubling.

 

 

[Sydebolle]

Well, instead of the "90 days reporting" maybe those civil servants, getting a 3% salary increase now, will consider introducing mandatory health insurance for non-Thais with policies in English and hot lines answered 24 hours, also in English. They rather spend more time on such things - which make sense to patient and health care provider alike. 

And, if they are at it, maybe they look into those 45 government hospitals all over the Kingdom which are bankrupt and, once that is solved, they look at the other hundreds of hospitals of inefficiency nearing bankruptcy. 

Financing could come from reconsidering the actual necessity of those Chinese tanks nobody really needs or this splendid idea of re-introducing submarines after 55 years of naval absence; those three little toys would jump-start Thailand's public health sector into the very front row of ASEAN - trust me! 

[teddog]

34 minutes ago, hawker9000 said:

Many perfectly valid points there.  But there's blame on both sides, and we're all aware of foreigners coming to Thailand with pre-existing conditions and a complete failure to have any provisions in for place for their own potential medical needs. Irresponsible travelers who end up unable to pay their just debts are deadbeats and ultimately make life that much harder for everyone else, just like long overstayers.  The moment the hospital releases them, they should be turned over to Immigration for detention, revocation of visas & permits, deportation, and blacklisting.  If that means they leave property behind, seize it, sell it, and put the proceeds toward the debt.  If they want to come back, they can pay up (yeap, with interest and fees).

 

DO this, and in time the problem will slow to a trickle.

The great problem here lies in the hospitals themselves,the private ones .Depending on which way the wind is blowing,depends on the price being charged.   Yes govt .hosptals I feel for,not the money grabbing Bs at the private ones,they can up and down the bill at will,lie through their teeth at treatment supposedly dished out. I really would like to see them bankrupted

[simoh1490]

Just now, Sydebolle said:

Well, instead of the "90 days reporting" maybe those civil servants, getting a 3% salary increase now, will consider introducing mandatory health insurance for non-Thais with policies in English and hot lines answered 24 hours, also in English. They rather spend more time on such things - which make sense to patient and health care provider alike. 

And, if they are at it, maybe they look into those 45 government hospitals all over the Kingdom which are bankrupt and, once that is solved, they look at the other hundreds of hospitals of inefficiency nearing bankruptcy. 

Financing could come from reconsidering the actual necessity of those Chinese tanks nobody really needs or this splendid idea of re-introducing submarines after 55 years of naval absence; those three little toys would jump-start Thailand's public health sector into the very front row of ASEAN - trust me! 

Why policies in English, why hotlines in English? English is very far from being the most used or useful language in Thailand!

[DieterWiehe]

On 4/18/2017 at 3:19 PM, LivinginKata said:

I encourage forum members to read the full article .... quite illuminating. Visitors here with no insurance - who is supposed to pay in the event of an accident ?? Oh well ... always the gofundme page ... 

visitor must have compulsory travel insurance otherwise no entry into the Kingdom

[sandemara]

I don't know why people are so ready to accept the figures provided by current authoritites on any subject as accurate, honest or relevant. You need to consider the "facts " presented in context; think about possible motivations and what the authrities hope to achieve as a result. This particular news article, to me, is just another dose of xenophobia for Thai citizens.  Now, a new (as in just revealed) financial crisis in the health system is the fault of foreigners who deprive Thai nationals of their medical needs. Much better, in the authorities' view, that citizens understand they can't get the hospital services they deserve because of irresponsible foreigners. These foreigners are, making it hard for the authorities struggling  do their best. At least the article can be seen as a harbinger of the electoral strategies and messages to be expected from the generals 'proteges in the claytons election - when and if it ever gets foisted on the nation. It's in the military authorites'best interests to keep reminding Thai citizens they are surrounded by alien threats and need a "strong"military to remain safe.

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, sandemara said:

I don't know why people are so ready to accept the figures provided by current authoritites on any subject as accurate, honest or relevant. You need to consider the "facts " presented in context; think about possible motivations and what the authrities hope to achieve as a result. This particular news article, to me, is just another dose of xenophobia for Thai citizens.  Now, a new (as in just revealed) financial crisis in the health system is the fault of foreigners who deprive Thai nationals of their medical needs. Much better, in the authorities' view, that citizens understand they can't get the hospital services they deserve because of irresponsible foreigners. These foreigners are, making it hard for the authorities struggling  do their best. At least the article can be seen as a harbinger of the electoral strategies and messages to be expected from the generals 'proteges in the claytons election - when and if it ever gets foisted on the nation. It's in the military authorites'best interests to keep reminding Thai citizens they are surrounded by alien threats and need a "strong"military to remain safe.

Rubbish and nonsense.

[Bundooman]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 5:04 PM, hakancnx said:

And also who is not paying. Is it migrant workers, expats or tourists?

Well, as far as some Expats are concerned, (I have no idea how many - but there will be those similar to myself), who have car and/or motorbike insurance. Before I receive all those who deny motorbike insurance is worthwhile, , let me briefly explain how this affected  hospital bills for me and my family on two separate occasions.

 

1.     A car accident two years ago. I was insured full premium. I was the one injured. The hospital Insurance Rep tried unsuccessfully, to browbeat my wife into believing I was 3rd party only and that she would have to draw money from the bank forthwith to pay for my 2 days hospitalization. I say unsuccessfully because some very good friends took charge of her, shocked as she was and sorted it out. I was actually insured for over 100,000 Baht. The hospital bill came to 98,000 Baht. I suspect my wife would have signed some documents as well and Insurance money would have gone into someone's pocket, had friends not intervened.

 

2.     The day before Songkran this year there were 3 of us on a motorbike - wife, daughter and I, helmets the lot. The wheels went from under us at traffic lights due to diesel spillage on the road . We were hardly moving but our daughter and I had nasty grazes, but very dirty. Wife just managed to step off the rear of the bike, no injury at all. We decided to get cleaned at a local hospital - expecting to pay a few thousand Baht. No!  They asked:   

"Were we insured on the M.bike?"  "yes, the usual 300 Baht".   "Then you have hospital treatment covered by your insurance".    We were surprised but happy about that. We were cleaned up and given loads of unnecessary tablets, medications, etc.,  for myself and daughter, totally unnecessarily and my wife was given a full body check to ensure she suffered no damage - despite them being aware that she had just managed to step off the bike.

So, the hospital claimed for 3 persons, full medical check and numerous medications for two people, a repeat cleaning exercise the next day, (we didn't go and everything is now healed)  on my insurance.

My point is that Expats are more likely to be insured - living here and knowing how dangerous the roads can be rather than 'spongers as implied by th OP. Secondly, the hospitals are just businesses. They are mainly interested in Insured patients, which is where their big money is. Writing of a few million Baht, (20,000 - 30,,, pounds sterling isn't going to break the bank. Maybe there should be an audit to ascertain where all the money actually went?

[Rhys]

Time to recycle the issue...

[Leicamera]

It's 7,300 Baht a day.....So they will come up with a plan that each tourist will have to pay 5,000Bt when they arrive. Times that by 30 million = 150,000,000,000.00

 

Sounds about right

 

[Khon Kaen Dave]

A friend of mine died in a Bkk hospital of AIDS.His brother came over and paid 5,000,000 for the treatment up to then. He then absconded back to the UK,leaving the hospital with my friends daughters name and address, he having given a dodgy one.

This girl had never signed or accepted responsibility for anything.This hospital persued her for over a year, trying to get her to pay. They even got some smart arse lawyer, saying he represented the British courts and that she would have to pay. He threatened her with a court writ, that would find her guilty in absentia. She was a copper and she got a police lawyer to send her a letter saying that she had committed no crime in her own country, and the Thai authorities were welcome to proceed with her extradition, if they so pleased.It eventually stopped, but she was emailed by the lawyer saying that she should not attempt to enter the kingdom,as she would be arrested. So the poor girl has done nothing, and now she is barred from coming here, even for a holiday.

[louse1953]

55,Farang Deaths Project,hopefully i will nevef be a member.Surely it is time to have mandatory insurance before yoh keave home.Just put it on the airlines to check or they will be sent back at your cost.

[Psimbo]

7 hours ago, A1Str8 said:

I have never had insurance. Whenever I was treated, upon checking out I got into a hospital car, they took me home, I got the money then we went back and I paid. 

try that when admitted to an ICU!

[louse1953]

15 hours ago, RigPig said:

I understand your reasoning but at what point do people take the responsibility for their own actions?  Do you think it is OK for people to come here and expect free medical care when Thailand hasn't the infrastructure of countries like England or Australis etc.  The first thing you have to show to get into Aus is that you will not be a burden on the free medical system.  NONE of these people have or will pay tax here!  My medical insurance costs me $500US a month, and that is my choice, and it doesn't cover me for pre existing conditions either...

Not quite true.They ask you on the visa application form are you going to visit an Aust.hospital,but there is no requirement on getting insurance,medical or otherwise.

[louse1953]

8 hours ago, little mary sunshine said:

If everyone is required to have travel insurance, than the

hospitals will be paid if there is an accident and every

traveler is protected in Thailand...Win Win situation.

Except the drunkards,the non helmet brigade,the drugtakers,the no licence crowd,ect.

[A1Str8]

57 minutes ago, Psimbo said:

try that when admitted to an ICU!

In which case it's even easier coz they just explained that in life threatening situations they don't ask for anything, but saving human life comes first.

[SiSePuede419]

If these people went to a Government hospital, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Private hospitals are expensive.  Government hospitals are cheap.  Surprising how many people don't know, don't care or think they are "too good" to wait in line. ?

[SiSePuede419]

If these people went to a Government hospital, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Private hospitals are expensive.  Government hospitals are cheap.  Surprising how many people don't know, don't care or think they are "too good" to wait in line. ?