Rice harvester

[darbyman]

Hi, I've been searching this site for info about rice harvesters.  Not much being said about the subject for quite some time, so I wonder if the subject is now a non-starter.  The reason I ask is that my Thai wife and I have lived in the UK for several years now and, since I've come up to retirement age, we will soon be ready to return to Thailand with a bucket full of money.  Father in Law owns some 100 Rai of rice fields in the Phitsanulok area producing two crops a year.  He has often bent my ear about buying the larger variety of harvester not only for his own use but for hiring out.  The suggested rates have been for two machines in the baht 2,000,000 area each and a wagon to carry them.  I guess that would be an outlay of 4.5 mil including spares etc. Since a good proportion of the money will be coming from my wife's hard earned cash I would need a pretty good reason to veto the idea if, indeed, I need to do so.  F-in-L is a well respected figure in the area so I don't think he would have a problem finding work for the machines but I know sod all about the subject ( my occupation is solicitor which is as far removed from rice farming as you can get) and wonder if there is anyone here who can advise regarding costs and viability.  Any serious input will be much appreciated.

[IsaanAussie]

I know of one guy that runs 3 such machines. In Isaan so only one crop per year. My suggestion is you PM me if you are serious with contact details. I will pass it on and if he is agreeable he may contact you. Equally, he may will still view the forum and answer direct. Either way, it is a big investment and not to be entered into without informed advice. 

[kickstart]

I live in a mixed farming area, with a  fair  bit of  rice grown , some areas  can get 2 crops   year  , but some land  , especially   the light very sandy land can only get one crop a  year.

Over the past 5-6 years the harvesting job  has now  gone almost  100%  mechanical, using   rice   harvesters, so  the number of rice harvesters in the area  has grown 2-3 fold  , a lot  the big  Hino engined machines  , like the one you wrote about ,a lot  are   Kubota smaller and a bit cheaper.

The thing with Thailand is one person does something, next thing you know  every man and they dog are doing it ,no such thing as checking out the market first  ,to see if they is a market, they just go and do it and think afterwards.

In  our area  I would say  the market  is  full up  with  rice combines, and with the drought last  year anyone , ie most combine owners  who brought they combine  on  hp  would  not make a lot , who know what  the  future holds.

Around here  the price is  600 baht to combine /rie   , as a lot of  farms  would be  in the 15- 25 rie  bracket they would  be a lot of moving about, dead time .to make any  money  

 This is our area, Pit-lock  where you are going , being a  big rice  area ,I would say  it would be the same ?, I could be wrong,  I would come over in rice harvesting time for 2 weeks ,have a good look  at everything, then make up  your mind .

 

[farmerjo]

KS types faster than me.

Last year there were comments on this forum about set prices/rai in provinces for harvesting and every field is not the same.

I have a DC-70G which i use for personal use and they stand you in around 1,3 million baht these days. Would i contract with it,no.

My advice would be to start with one for the farm.

Logistics wise on top of the harvesters and transport truck you may well need a service vehicle(for diesel,air compressor,parts etc and other trucks to transport the grain otherwise you could be relying on others to keep them moving. 

[khwaibah]

With rice only fetching only 6 to 9 baht per kilo farmers are turning away from it or going out of business. Be very carful of investing the kind money you talk off. It will be you left holding the bag and not your wife family.

[thoongfoned]

no....

[kickstart]

22 hours ago, kickstart said:

I live in a mixed farming area, with a  fair  bit of  rice grown , some areas  can get 2 crops   year  , but some land  , especially   the light very sandy land can only get one crop a  year.

Over the past 5-6 years the harvesting job  has now  gone almost  100%  mechanical, using   rice   harvesters, so  the number of rice harvesters in the area  has grown 2-3 fold  , a lot  the big  Hino engined machines  , like the one you wrote about ,a lot  are   Kubota smaller and a bit cheaper.

The thing with Thailand is one person does something, next thing you know  every man and they dog are doing it ,no such thing as checking out the market first  ,to see if they is a market, they just go and do it and think afterwards.

In  our area  I would say  the market  is  full up  with  rice combines, and with the drought last  year anyone , ie most combine owners  who brought they combine  on  hp  would  not make a lot , who know what  the  future holds.

Around here  the price is  600 baht to combine /rie   , as a lot of  farms  would be  in the 15- 25 rie  bracket they would  be a lot of moving about, dead time .to make any  money  

 This is our area, Pit-lock  where you are going , being a  big rice  area ,I would say  it would be the same ?, I could be wrong,  I would come over in rice harvesting time for 2 weeks ,have a good look  at everything, then make up  your mind .

 

53

Not certain if I have to eat my words  ,been  talking  to wife's  daughter  ,who is a rice farmer, last year she  had to wait   3 weeks to get there rice  harvested , her  and my misses said  they  is not enough  rice combines around ,never one  when you need one  syndrome,or is it  a  Thai organization  ,phone the contractor  up today  ,saying  I  want  you here  tomorrow,  do not seem to know how about next week ,they  did say some farmers  will up the rate  to say 7-800 baht  rie  to get there  rice  harvested  quickly   leaving  the poorer farmers  at the end of the Que

The wife said   a lot of combines  are owned by the   grain  buyer ,  who will have  his own truck, and take the crop  straight to the rice mill , but  a lot  of combines are just owner /drivers  ,as FJ  said  you could be  sat around  for a  long time  waiting for a  truck to arrive, to haul  the  crop , and after 3-4 phone calls he  has still not arrived , again  dead time , trucks  are  just a  6 wheel truck , plenty  of  second  hands  ones  around   .

As  i said  come  over here  and have  a good look  around  first 

[darbyman]

Thank you for your input.  This is exactly what I am hearing from F-in-L.  Since he is a very well known guy in the area I doubt if he would find difficulty in finding the work.  All I need to find out is the viability of the enterprise.

[farmerjo]

Any agricultural contracting business can be viable if you have a good plan.I would say his biggest overhead will be carrying the diesel bill so a fair injection of cash flow will be required at the start.

It doesn't matter if your FIL is well liked or not.Of course is does help but will come down to cost and avalibility.

From my experience in this environment you have to show courtesy to clients so if your one day late and your booked up for 60 days,expect to make a lot of phone calls.Also go in with the attitude no job is to big or small as you will find the smaller clients show more loyalty.

 

IMO send your FIL to a SME workshop to draw up a business plan and see if it holds strength against a bank loan.If it does,happy days ahead.He sounds switched on to already be able to oversee a 100 rai rice operation and make it profitable.  

 

For that sort of set up and outlay i would be wanting to turn over $1000 a day a machine. 

[Ace of Pop]

Just stay retired.?Best advice you will get here.!!.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Cashboy]

If you are serious, I would only buy one Rice Harvester at first and see how you get on with that with only 100 rai of rice (40 acres approx) as a new Harvester is  1 Million bt ish.

600 bt per rai x 100 rai => 60,000 bt x 2 times per year (if you can get two crops)  is 120,000 bt per annum contracting it out.

Don't think the saving is that though and that you are getting a 12% return.

There is the driver cost (OK it is your inlaw) and there is fuel and the moving cost of the vehicle and they do appear to need a lot of servicing and maintenance.

 

Contracting out is OK but as already said the machine needs to be moved so you need minimum a suitable trailer for the tractor  (I assume you have a suitable powerful tractor with 100 rai).

 

The most important point is that you have to realise that you, yourself, will get nothing in return on your investment !

 

 

 

[pattayaX]

Japanese might have good rice harvesting equipment. You definitely want to wait until there is something introduced in Thai market that is very cost efficient before investing on one.

[Hereinthailand]

If I had a Baht for every farang married to a thai woman that came to thailand with a bucket of money and very quickly found out the family poked a hole in that bucket and emptied it i would have more money than taksin.

[darbyman]

Very helpful, Hereinthailand, and quite original. Thank you

[Hereinthailand]

Maybe not original but the truth which most farangs dont want to face. If your father in law has 100 rai of rice, makes good money on it and is well respected then why doesnt he go to the bank and borrow the money to buy a combine if it is so easy to make money with it ??? Rice farmers here have been losing their asses the last few years and many are selling out or switching to sugar cane or cassava. Last year I think it was the gov stepped in and capped the price at 500 baht per rai for harvesting. And after your money is spent and the equipment is sitting or being trashed by the hired help (oh those repair bills too) you will be thinking what happened ? Now you also have to buy land and build a house another few mill there, oh and the new car you will have to have. But im sure the fil will make you a good deal on some of his land to build a house which you wont own to live in. You need to slow down and live here awhile and see for yourself how things work instead of listening to the fil. Its not his money to lose and thais love to spend other peoples money. Sorry to be so harsh and I dont think you will listen anyway. 

[darbyman]

Now THAT is a bit more helpful, Hereinthailand, but for your information I have been married to a Thai lady for over 15 years now so I am totally aware of what you are telling me.  Been there, done that, got the tee shirt AND set the rules. However, securing knowledge of the Thai way of life was not the purpose of my original post.  I am a solicitor so it comes natural to me to cross the tees and dot the i's, which is the reason why I have been searching this site for knowledge.  Incidentally, throughout the time my wife has been in the UK there have been no demands for money from her family, she has worked very hard to accumulate a nest egg and, IF we decide on investing in this business, it is HER money which will pay for the majority of the investment and SHE will own all the assets.  I'm not going to live forever and investment in ANY business - whether it be the farm or something else - will be her security for the future.  Although I understand where you are coming from I think it is most unfair of you to tar ALL Thais with the same brush. 

[Hereinthailand]

Why not tar all the thais with the same brush thats what they do to us farangs ? So it is her money eh ? I guess you will soon learn your money is our money and her money is family money. Is she going to pay her share of the house, land, car-truck, living expenses when that comes around ? or will the family come first. Ive been married and living here 10 years now and it was made clear from the start the family comes SECOND ! Never had a problem from them yet. I truly believe they respect me more as a falang knowing I am not a buffalo or atm machine. Again why doesnt the father pay for this combine if he is so well off ?????? But then why should he when he know there is going to be a new atm in town soon without any repayment when things fall apart. Good luck to you.

[colinneil]

21 minutes ago, Hereinthailand said:

 will the family come first. Ive been married and living here 10 years now and it was made clear from the start the family comes SECOND ! Never had a problem from them yet. I truly believe they respect me more as a falang knowing I am not a buffalo or atm machine. Again why doesnt the father pay for this combine if he is so well off ?????? But then why should he when he know there is going to be a new atm in town soon without any repayment when things fall apart. Good luck to you.

10

Never had any bother with the family !!!! you lucky lucky man  !!!!

Six years ago wifes family wanted to buy a tractor, as we were considered part of the family we were asked to pay our share.

I calculated the number of rai in the family, said we want a Kubota 3605, all the family  argued with me as i was only a farang,what did i know about tractors.

Well i was weaned on fordson majors, fergie t 20s, so i think i know about tractors, used tractors upto 98 horse power.

No we need a 4708, why i ask, man at Kubota said we need, he knows more than you.

So i said i will only pay the same share as the smaller tractor (90.000 baht) the rest is up to you.

When they were getting 15 baht a kilo no problems but now every  2nd day, you have to give us more money, you have to pay more, well my answer was only 2 words and the second 1 was  ....... off.

As Ace of Pop said stay retired.

[IsaanAussie]

This is getting interesting. I have been in Thailand for most of the last 18 years and seen many things change very quickly and others hardly at all. But I would never tar all Thais with the one brush. I worked in the City, in Bangkok. My wife once said she wasn't Thai, she came from Isaan. To me that sums it up, there are not as many intelligent, well educated, successful Thais here as there are in BKK. Sometimes I miss those early years and the ability to hold a reasoned discussion. However with the back of my trousers getting ever thinner, I seem to getting more Thai. I stopped trying to explain market development business plans and return of investment years ago. Good idea, say yes. Flakey idea or absolute rubbish say NO. As my wife says, "Don't think too much!" No extra words needed, one of two options. Having made that decision stand back and watch it happen, or not. FACT: You were never going to do all the work anyway! 

 

Reason most of us fail? We have the plan and the money, but we want "them" to do it exactly as we tell them....We're just the BOSS in their backyard. Really?

 

The single biggest change has been to village life and agriculture. Over 70% of Thais made their living from farming, small holding subsistence farming. The young people went to work in the new industrialised areas but still returned for planting and harvesting each year and sent money home to support their children and parents in the village. Extended families worked together and little was mechanised. Now its less than 40% farming and the young labour doesn't come home to help. 

 

So where is the future. Consolidated land holdings and mechanisation, control of farm gate pricing and costs. So looking past the opportunistic overheads of being a farmer here.....and a rice harvester was the topic, as it is....

 

I would buy the biggest bin storage unit I could .... after I had talked with the local rice merchants. Despite the fall in rice prices which will never recover, these guys around here have increased their storage capacity 4 fold. 

 

Plenty of little tractors to plough, seed rice and fertiliser finance schemes, but with no labour to plant, harvest, dry, store and transport. There will be lots of money made, use your business and farming skills to get some of it, the Thai way.

 

Despite whatever "Her In Doors" or her family tell you "It is NOT up to you." We will not change the world.

 

[IsaanAussie]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

Never had any bother with the family !!!! you lucky lucky man  !!!!

Six years ago wifes family wanted to buy a tractor, as we were considered part of the family we were asked to pay our share.

I calculated the number of rai in the family, said we want a Kubota 3605, all the family  argued with me as i was only a farang,what did i know about tractors.

Well i was weaned on fordson majors, fergie t 20s, so i think i know about tractors, used tractors upto 98 horse power.

No we need a 4708, why i ask, man at Kubota said we need, he knows more than you.

So i said i will only pay the same share as the smaller tractor (90.000 baht) the rest is up to you.

When they were getting 15 baht a kilo no problems but now every  2nd day, you have to give us more money, you have to pay more, well my answer was only 2 words and the second 1 was  ....... off.

As Ace of Pop said stay retired.

I really can connect with this. I did the same numbers and came up with an old Iseki large frame, 3 cyl Isuzu diesel, 4WD, 28HP tractor. The difference was I just went and got it and had it delivered it to the farm. Considering that I could only plough the concrete here after the rain started and then after rice harvest I was never going to get huge hours up. 

Ten years ago it was the only tractor in the village, hence perfect. Then the brand spanking new interest free Kubotas started showing up and the "face" element took over. My slow old girl was suddenly not up to the job. Fine by me.

[thoongfoned]

if i were looking/thinking about buying said machines plus truck/s ect,... move over here and look at the rice crops, volume, price ect... transport, access to fields, availability of machines/repairs.how much work your extended family do now and in the future.  spend at least 1 year looking about before spending money on this, well thats what i would do.....

the pound is very low and has been for some time, you would be looking at 100,000 pounds up using your qoute of 4.5m baht, i think this would be on the lean side too for what you have spoken about....

in your area look to see if people are conituing planting/ expanding rice holdings or are going over to other crops.... rice might not be the best move???  in the wifes area sugar cane has started to take over over the past 7/8 years..... large land holdings/rentals ect...

you will need good workers that "you" can trust and people that will maintain said machines... most of the time they will be dormont so you will need some covered place for them,  rats are a problem with car/ trucks ect that just sit there, had one "spare" pickup re wired this year due to just leaving it in a garage too long...

not wanting to be rude but why not just enjoy your retirement for afew years before spending good money on farming ect.. not to say farming is not rewarding but it takes skill and many contacts to make it work. (luck also helps)

if the money is burning a hole in the wifes pocket look at buying land , you could always just rent it out then you will have some passive money coming in. buy right and who knows in the future "you" could see a good return on the investment - or you could just buy another house orflat in your home country... and wait for the pound to come back then sell up and buy 5 machines instead of 2....

just my thoughts, what ever you do  just make sure you enjoy yourselfs.... phitsanuluk road is a lovely province.......

 

[Canada]

Not that anyone cares or that it is even that relevant to this topic, but I think farming here is a wash. You need to be Thai and on your game as far as managing employees-farm workers. We've kept our home plot and we're still quite happy now after selling our 100 rai of cane and the tractor.  I miss the tractor - that's about it. Trying to get workers to show up, do the work, do what you ask them etc is crazy making. We were going to start to buy trucks to transport our cane, and then someone offered us what we wanted for our larger piece of land so we went the other way. So happy that it worked out that way. 

As far as family- like someone else posted here. Right from day one I've been crystal clear- we are family. Not- you guys are family and I am farang. And we come first. Have never had a problem. It's been 7 + years now with this one. 

 

Anyways its almost 9. time for bed

 

[pattayaX]

On 4/22/2017 at 9:36 PM, IsaanAussie said:

I really can connect with this. I did the same numbers and came up with an old Iseki large frame, 3 cyl Isuzu diesel, 4WD, 28HP tractor. The difference was I just went and got it and had it delivered it to the farm. Considering that I could only plough the concrete here after the rain started and then after rice harvest I was never going to get huge hours up. 

Ten years ago it was the only tractor in the village, hence perfect. Then the brand spanking new interest free Kubotas started showing up and the "face" element took over. My slow old girl was suddenly not up to the job. Fine by me.

I remember to watch some random videos on youtube about old tractors being modded for improvement. One guy installed this Fass fuel and got about 1mpg improvement. Kubotas are nice new tractor machines indeed.

[Hereinthailand]

Kubotas are only nice due to them being made here giving them a lower price, Ill take a Yanmar with hydrostatic shift any day of the week over an old tech kubota.

[Denim]

If the OP is coming here with buckets of money then my advice would be to sit on it as long as possible until you see the lie of the land for yourself. Allow a cooling off period of a year before you rush to invest in other peoples ' great ideas '.

 

Don't tell anyone you have buckets of money otherwise , like many who have come and gone before , you will end up without a pot to piss in.

[farmerjo]

On 25/02/2018 at 9:55 PM, arb attachment said:

Combine harvester machine is very hard to maintain,

since your all the way from UK ,

you should never get in to this, Thialand is not as easy you think ,

you will end up all the money you have in few month.

then they say you cant rent the machine,

so becreful while investing.

iam from machinery back ground.

for more info email me [email protected]

Actually the axial flow harvesters of today(kubota,john deere) are very easy to work on and maintain.

The drum models(claas) are more challenging.

 

[kickstart]

FJ

     Those big Hino engined combines ,I take it they are  drum  models ?thay are a few around here and do not seem to have many problems .made locally easy to repair I would say  the biggest problems are setting up the machine ,fan speed, concave,,and most drivers, drive to fast, grain goes out the back .

arb attchment  may not know buy the time a combine arrives in Thailand it will be 15-20 years old ,one we have around here is a Class Dominator ,I can remember those in the uk from the mid 80's, one here come here vie Taiwan  3ed /4th hand? ,and it still cost something like 2 million baht plus ,so you could almost expect problems ,and Thais a dab hand at keeping these things going.                                                                                                                                          Ps, did not know Kubota where axial flow  .                         

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

The DC-70G i have is axial flow.

The beauty is the top section and side section of where the rotor is located opens up giving excellent access for maintenance.

The hardest job on my machine is when i adjust the height of the the broad elevator chain for different grains and that's only cause i'm to big to fit in between the comb and chassis.

Drum and axial flow.Drum runs east/west and axial flow north/south.Performance wise they are probably similar but i went axial flow from a maintenance perspective.In saying that it's better for the threshing moving parts.However the under carriage and tracks of a Claas (tiger)(like an excavator track)are far superior than the Kubota/john deere ones.

I have never inspected a local harvester brand up close so don't know much about them other than the specky paint job they have.

P/S even though the new same model as mine can be purchased with an air conditioned cab i cannot buy a retro fit cab kit for mine. They expect you to buy the whole machine.TIT.

   

[farmerjo]

On 25/02/2018 at 9:55 PM, arb attachment said:

Combine harvester machine is very hard to maintain,

since your all the way from UK ,

you should never get in to this, Thialand is not as easy you think ,

you will end up all the money you have in few month.

then they say you cant rent the machine,

so becreful while investing.

iam from machinery back ground.

for more info email me [email protected]

arb,

I am interested in your pto water pumps with a gearbox.

Do you have some prices for models here in Thailand.