cmsally Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 41 minutes ago, Emster23 said: "BMA cameras were out of action when historic marker may have gone missing..." Pure coincidence, I am sure. Perhaps police could arrest themselves, as their response (or lack thereof) is inciting unrest. In a related story, the Statue of Liberty has gone missing. Unconfirmed reports indicate she was seen walking across the Atlantic towards original owner, France. Some say they heard her mutter "My work here is done...." No , she was saying (to quote Kenneth Williams) "What's the bl.... point?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thechook Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 12 minutes ago, bino said: It seems that democratic memorials are being obliterated nation-wide. Things that make you go "Hmmmm". Historic Constitution Monument Torn Down In Buriram Constitution Monument Pushed Aside for Rail Line Some more interesting stories in Khaosod English news. Why Was the 1932 Revolution Plaque So Important? Why is Popular Culture Afraid of the 1932 Revolution? Tiny, Faded Marker Looms Large Over Thailand’s Democracy Debate Sounds like the military want to take the country back to pre 1930 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemonjelly Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Check the forges around BKK, try and ascertain who ordered the new plaque.... could be a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiSoLowSoNoSo Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Thechook said: Sounds like the military want to take the country back to pre 1930 And change back the name of the country to Siam. Wonder how long time until the average Somchai had enough of this BS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldave1951 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, cornishcarlos said: What a surprise, all 11 CCTV cameras covering the area were removed for "maintenance" just before the plaque went walkabout... That's convenient :) MAINTENANCE now thats a laugh !!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bino Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Another good read... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siamese_revolution_of_1932 Check it out now if you are interested. I suspect that this page will be censored very soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantSpell Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, mark01 said: They can't find a prostitute in Pattaya. What chance do they have of finding a little plaque? 55555 Lot of good post in this thread but this is a winner :) No chance at all indeed, they know where they are and do NOT want to find them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Thechook said: Making international news now. Was on ABC Australia this morning saying tensions rising over authorities refusing to investigate and people being ordered by government not to speak of the plaque. I notice a lot of foreign media stories about this have been blocked in Thailand. Why does this plaque scare the junta so much? They, the Junta, probably had it changed (to suit their own agenda) and then "threatened" people who complained with "causing chaos and disorder". But the chaos and disorder was created by those who changed the plaque. Go figure! Once again lack of higher order critical thinking, just treat the general population like kids, with total disdain - do not question the "teacher/leader"!! So much for any hint of democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavidovsky Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Again, someone correct if my history is wrong, but it seems to me that concern for the plaque is misguided. The 1932 revolution wasn't a popular uprising, but was really the advent of the elite/military system that persists today. The purpose of the plaque was to legitimise the military dictatorship in the eyes of the people at the time. Historically it is interesting as an early example of the elites using bogus claims to democracy to legitimise themselves - something that also persists to this day. The plaque is not a tender aspiration to proper democracy and never was. In that case, you might expect the current regime to promote the plaque, however, history changed again in 1946, when somewhat undoing the shift away from absolute monarchy of the early 30s, the monarchy was welcomed back as part of the military/elite alliance. At which point the plaque simply became out of date and irrelevant except to those who sentimentally thought it had something to do with proper democracy. Sorry to say it, but on this reasoning the regime can actually do what it wants with the plaque - it belongs to them more than to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky mike Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) Sometimes if you can't have something it becomes more valuable than it really is ? Edited April 20, 2017 by Lucky mike Missed word Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantSpell Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, bino said: It seems that democratic memorials are being obliterated nation-wide. Things that make you go "Hmmmm". Historic Constitution Monument Torn Down In Buriram Constitution Monument Pushed Aside for Rail Line Some more interesting stories in Khaosod English news. Why Was the 1932 Revolution Plaque So Important? Why is Popular Culture Afraid of the 1932 Revolution? Tiny, Faded Marker Looms Large Over Thailand’s Democracy Debate Scary when you come to think about the implications and how everything seems to be related... http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/06/24/anniversary-democracy-cops-intercept-arrest-observers/ That one as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docshock13 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Thechook said: They could put the whole thing to bed if they just showed some honesty and respect for the citizens. Just say yes we replaced it and this is the reason why. Ordering people to shut up and threatening them with arrest if they speak of it doesn't help. What happened to the road map of reconcilliation and restoring happiness to the people. Who's reading the map? Reconciliation St. is a one-way road. And the Thai people will be happy...whether they like it or not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 hours ago, starky said: Return to your homes. Nothing to see here as nothing has happened.  No one's claimed it. no one owns it. no one's seen it. It's not historical. It was never there at all....article 44...it was never there at all. But don't you dare mess with the new plaque! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, bino said: That's rich. Did they really think that the population is stupid and no one would notice the new plaque sitting in fresh new cement? Of course the people of Thailand have a right to ask and to know what happened. Removing it and the subsequent whitewashing was the first event that could create chaos and disorder. Telling people to stop - with no reasonable explanation is just going to be "Streisand effect" and make them want to push the issue to know even more. It scares me - this could blow up into a massive problem for the kingdom. Perhaps an event like the original plaque commemorates. "Did they really think that the population is stupid and no one would notice the new plaque sitting in fresh new cement? " Yes, they did. "Of course the people of Thailand have a right to ask and to know what happened." Not under this government. The junta did not seize power to protect the rights of all the people, only the rights of the "right" people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 2 hours ago, Thechook said: They could put the whole thing to bed if they just showed some honesty and respect for the citizens. Just say yes we replaced it and this is the reason why. Ordering people to shut up and threatening them with arrest if they speak of it doesn't help. What happened to the road map of reconcilliation and restoring happiness to the people. Who's reading the map? "...if they just showed some honesty and respect for the citizens." Seriously? The junta? Are you being funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackheart1916 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 Well there's a shot across the bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reigntax Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, hansnl said: I am afraid this might become a problem for Thailand. Lets hope something eventually makes the Thai people stand up and be counted and end the lunacy of continual military interference and control once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 hours ago, rkidlad said: If the rhetoric is to not stir trouble, shouldn't they be looking for the people who stole the plaque? Stealing the plaque is causing all this trouble. Not the people looking for it. Isn't stirring trouble a massive offence here? I'd be after the people who stole it and come down hard on them. They're causing unrest and that's the most serious crime in Thailand at the moment. Easiest thing would be to melt down the new one and remake it into the old one. That would go some way to appeasing all these upset people for the time being while you look for the people who took the original. Wouldn't solve the underlying BIG problem this country is facing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) Sorry to say it, but on this reasoning the regime can actually do what it wants with the plaque - it belongs to them more than to anyone. This applies to the entire country as well, at least as far as they are concerned. Defining 'ownership' of monument which has been in the public domain for 80-ish years seems challenging, except in Thailand where those at the top lord over the masses as is their birth-right. It was a fairly simply item, small and with general words about "the Promoters" and their actions, whom I believe had higher aspirations for their country than the military-elite have today. However, for a select coterie of amart, this plaque represents all that is wrong with modern Siam, so it had to go. I have no clue why they're pretending not to know what's going on? If it "belonged" to them why obfuscate the details of the replacement? Clearly there is some shame, albeit barely a thimble-full. Edited April 20, 2017 by mtls2005 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkidlad Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, dageurreotype said: Wouldn't solve the underlying BIG problem this country is facing though. Agreed. That's going to take a revolution, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 1 hour ago, CantSpell said: Scary when you come to think about the implications and how everything seems to be related... http://www.khaosodenglish.com/politics/2016/06/24/anniversary-democracy-cops-intercept-arrest-observers/ That one as well... KE posted the presenting of the complaint live on FB yesterday and had asked for support in the form of a simple acknowledgement of viewers posting 'I'm here'. Good for them, very brave. They'd also reported at least ten soldiers were present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dageurreotype Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 3 hours ago, Thechook said: Sounds like the military want to take the country back to pre 1930 Anyone remember that embarrassing junta inaugural 'fair' where the people were required to dress up in 'traditional' clothing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavidovsky Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) 24 minutes ago, mtls2005 said: It was a fairly simply item, small and with general words about "the Promoters" and their actions, whom I believe had higher aspirations for their country than the military-elite have today. However, for a select coterie of amart, this plaque represents all that is wrong with modern Siam, so it had to go. I suspect the Promoters' main aim was to wrest power from the monarchy at the time rather than give it to the people (meaning the masses). In any case, whatever aspirations of genuine democracy they might have had on day one probably evaporated by the end of the week when they had had a whiff of power and privilege. And the plaque, I gather, was created by the ensuing military/elite dictatorship on behalf of themselves, when the monarchy was still sidelined, rather than by the Promoters on behalf of the masses. Again, correct me if this is wrong, I'm just drawing on something I once read. I can't be bothered to read up on it again. Edited April 20, 2017 by ddavidovsky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandemara Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 hours ago, webfact said: “Now the country is moving forward as the new Constitution has already come into force. Things that could create chaos and disorder in the Kingdom should be stopped. We ask for cooperation from all factions in the interest of reconciliation,” junta spokesman Piyaphong Klinphan said. When did the new Constitution some into force? What happened to debate, discussion, seeking opinions from all stakeholders, etc in the interests of reconciliation? ""Things that create chaos and disorder"" (apart from coups and "new'" constitutions and rules every few years) might include unexplained, uninvestigated deaths of army recruits, RTP failure to follow up on crimes committed by the privileged few and their hangers-on, relatives etc; lack of appropriate health and education services, lack of safety standards and quality staff in industries vital for the well-being and safety of citizens, sensible enforcement of laws regulating traffic and transport industries as well as road movements, control of lottery prices, limiting military privilege and power to mitigating external threats to Thai society, control of mafia operations, human trfficking and slavery etc, develop policies to mitigate violence in public and in the home etc It might be nice if, one day, the military returns control of their own destiny to the Thai citizenry; a pity they don't recognise the plaque symbolises a lot of unsaid emotions and desires related to democratic freedoms and civil rights for many ordinary Thais. Arrogance, contempt and intimidation in response just won't wash at some point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooo Upto Me Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 6 hours ago, Thechook said: Making international news now. Was on ABC Australia this morning saying tensions rising over authorities refusing to investigate and people being ordered by government not to speak of the plaque. I notice a lot of foreign media stories about this have been blocked in Thailand. Why does this plaque scare the junta so much? Obviously they the ones who ordered to replace it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/947506-pm’s-office-executives-urged-to-work-with-transparency/#comment-11219190 https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/944761-dpm-prawit-asks-military-to-uphold-transparency/#comment-11179093 https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/922239-thai-finance-ministry-promotes-transparency-in-public-procurements/#comment-10816578 https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/942583-dsi-we-are-just-and-transparent/#comment-11142308 It seems the fixation with transparency is over, if it ever existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgeorgeallen Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 85 years of going from being ruled by the king to being ruled by the army. cant say they didnt give democracy a good run, well some of them anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisakiman Posted April 20, 2017 Share Posted April 20, 2017 5 hours ago, Thechook said: Sounds like the military want to take the country back to pre 1930 I think that's exactly what they want to do. No more Johnny-come-lately billionaires upsetting the applecart with their populist policies. The natural order of things must be restored. Peasants are supposed to toil in the fields, not have political opinions. Political opinions are the preserve of the elite urbanites; only they have the intelligence to know what's best for the people. So let's all forget about this silly 'democracy' stuff, and get back to the way things should be, with a proper, established and permanent hierarchy in place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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