The 30-year Itch

[smo]

This is really not my business but it concerns my friends, thus somewhat of my concern. In a nutshell, my close friends, a Thai  couple, is drifting apart. They are working class, in their mid (her) late (him) 50s, running a chicken rice stand on campus canteen where I frequent. They don't talk normal to each other anymore, any exchange in close quarter quickly turns to bickerings (with her usually having the last word, in high pitch; the husband is pretty passive, left to sulk.) Two of their 3 all grown up daughters, still live at home and chip in (whenever they can) with living expenses, car payment etc.

 

Last time I (closely) looked, they both appear resigned. I usually come around at the end of business day, to find her sit sleeping at the table and him glued to his mobile. During joking moments, when asked why she looks tired and unhappy, among many practical reasons (lately the bank turned down their loan to buy a house which they desperately want to own, car payment is breaking their back, their kids are not working, etc...) she let out that he hasn't touched her for several months, now. When we spent Songkran together in her home village, the whole gang sat around drinking and on more than one occasion everybody (including the husband himself) joined in the joke, "he is sleep(y) but not (sleep)ee!" The wife's explaination was that he no longer does it riep roy, therefore she doesn't want it (sour grapes?) I half-joked to her that it's time to get him a mia noy, or let him have his occasional "sexcapades" to the girlie spa, then all would be well again. She says no, if it comes to that she would leave.

 

Recently I got a jolt when we joked about her appearance (too skinny and what not- the reality is she is turning into an old hag), the husband slyly showed me a pic on his mobile phone, the bare chest of an old female (I sincerely hope it wasn't hers) and asked, "do you want that?" - which I translated as "do you think I want that?" I catch him occasionally throwing a quick glance at other women (younger... with more meat on their bones ...) which I'm sure doesn't escape her either.

 

They spend all their waking moments together (due to the nature of their job selling food, after work I sometimes accompany them to Makro to get stuff for the next day) never take a day off except for Songkran and family ritual (got to do with the departed) days. My showing up is usually taken as a welcome diversion to both of them and sometimes I feel as if I was acting like a buffer between the two. I wonder how long it be before one of them slashes out at the other with a meat cleaver? In the West, actually I should put it this way, if this were a western couple, this would be time to call on a divorce lawyer. In the East, ie in Thailand, the addition of  a mia noy - or kik - would usually "fix" it.

[smo]

One piece of relevant background info I forgot to put in: they're not the Isaan dark buffalo country pumpkin type (not meant to be derivative), they both have spent most their adult lives in Bangkok - wife used to be an accountant, husband worked in the hardware industry. One day he threw in the towel, quit his job and as a result the couple lost their cherished house where the kids were raised and now it seems the wife has taken over the ship's helm (husband is content to be washing 200 dirty dishes a day).

 

Maybe that's when they started down the slippery slope?

[SiamBeast]

Nothing a "mia noi" can't fix.

[Rhys]

till death do they part....

[seancbk]

All I can say is I admire your Thai language skills.

[OmarZaid]

This unfortunate couple has no remedy -- husband appears to have abdicated responsibility

[tpkhk]

OP - thanks for sharing.  Great peek into the lives of a random working family.  Husband burnt out of corporate life, which probably took him down a notch in his wife's eyes as a provider, and then everything goes downhill ...They clearly seem to consider you close enough to open up - fortunate to have you as a friend/sounding board and who knows maybe your counsel sort of holds things from deteriorating.

[elgordo38]

On 5/1/2017 at 7:58 PM, smo said:

During joking moments, when asked why she looks tired and unhappy, among many practical reasons (lately the bank turned down their loan to buy a house which they desperately want to own, car payment is breaking their back, their kids are not working, etc...)

Yes the children chip in when they can but its a fragile situation at best but typical here. Rather remind me of a one legged stool. Statics however would show them as a Thai success story barely getting by. 

[elgordo38]

15 hours ago, Rhys said:

till death do they part....

The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. 

[elgordo38]

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

This unfortunate couple has no remedy -- husband appears to have abdicated responsibility

From the article I assume he looses all the arguments with her and has as you say abdicated responsibility. Being constantly verbally emasculated can do this. 30 years together in this fast paced over indebted world is a long time. In yester years couple worked as a team to get ahead today they are in survival mode constantly. To bad young couples madly in love cannot have a peek at the future. 

[elgordo38]

On 5/9/2017 at 0:01 AM, SiamBeast said:

Nothing a "mia noi" can't fix.

Hmm double trouble interesting. 

[elgordo38]

On 5/1/2017 at 8:43 PM, smo said:

One piece of relevant background info I forgot to put in: they're not the Isaan dark buffalo country pumpkin type (not meant to be derivative), they both have spent most their adult lives in Bangkok - wife used to be an accountant, husband worked in the hardware industry. One day he threw in the towel, quit his job and as a result the couple lost their cherished house where the kids were raised and now it seems the wife has taken over the ship's helm (husband is content to be washing 200 dirty dishes a day).

 

Maybe that's when they started down the slippery slope?

Yes taking backward steps in life can cause you to fall into a deep hole. 

[Thaidream]

The last thing he needs is a mia noi or a gik- the couple are suffering from overwork and no real help from the children. All they do is work to stay alive and that in itself is depressing. No one is really interested in a sexual relationship when they feel hopeless. Unfortunately this is the way life everywhere in the World has developed and part of the reason is the massive selfishness of the wealthy and governments protecting them.

I am glad I am retired  ...the rat race has gotten worse each year.

[Beats56]

Maybe they need to take vacation and relax just the two of.them and rekindle their marriage. Let the kids run the business for week. Could do them some good to get away and not worry so much.

[1FinickyOne]

And now, on to the subject of world peace. 

[1FinickyOne]

Ps... seven years is an itch, fifteen years is usually an amputation. Thirty years is a miracle, and working together doubles it. 

[Thaidream]

The one thing that will change this marriage is money.  It is the root of the unhappiness. If their dream was a house and the bank turned them down it obviously has had an affect for the worse on them.  The children could really help their parents by getting jobs but I have the feeling that the kids won't take minimum wage.. The parents may be able to find a guarantor for their house amongst family or very close friends.  The problem is not sex- it is depression because they cannot fulfill their dreams or aspirations and no one is helping them from the family. They need encouragement to look for some creative ways to get that house such as an increase in income or other financing.

I learned a valuable lesson from a really wonderful person- never give up-

[Kabula]

It sounds like this couple would be happier living apart.  Perhaps it would save their marriage over time.

 

The 30 year itch has come and gone.  In this decade it as been the 5 year discard; like tossing an empty can in the garbage.

 

Thanks to the Internet, and single ads most women and men have become expert, covert, story tellers and better dealers which generally destroys relationships before they even get started these days.  

 

I have been told by some men that tried the single ads, that many women now ask for money before they even ask for a date. Many women agree to meet for a free meal which is like having a part time job. Some surprise lover boy with bringing her entire family or friends!

 

It's all very sad when I look back 50 years ago and remember how it was.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

On 5/1/2017 at 2:43 PM, smo said:

One piece of relevant background info I forgot to put in: they're not the Isaan dark buffalo country pumpkin type (not meant to be derivative), they both have spent most their adult lives in Bangkok - wife used to be an accountant, husband worked in the hardware industry. One day he threw in the towel, quit his job and as a result the couple lost their cherished house where the kids were raised and now it seems the wife has taken over the ship's helm (husband is content to be washing 200 dirty dishes a day).

 

Maybe that's when they started down the slippery slope?

Oi! My wife wants to know where you live. She resents you calling her "the Isaan, dark, buffalo, country pumpkin (i will assume you meant bumpkin) type. I hope that you are in full possession of all your counseling, and advisory skills, when she comes knocking.

[Thaidream]

I would agree that relationships today are not what they were 40-50 years ago when people actually married for love and money was secondary. Today, people want everything and they want it now- but what they have forgot is it usually takes hard work and giving and sharing to stay together in a relationship. You just can't have everything you want. You have to set goals and work together to get there. Too many people today are so incredibly selfish and narcissistic. 

In this particular case the couple feel their hopes have been dashed and because of their age they may believe they are running out of time.  The kids need a good kick in the butt- either to get jobs and bring in some income or help Mom and Dad at the business. IThe man does not fight back against his wife's nagging because he realizes it is fruitless to do so. The more you fight back against a Thai women- the longer the  anger continuous and ries. He is smart to keep quiet- eventually it passes.

[bazza73]

A "mia noi" won't fix the problem, only make it worse.

 

Once couples stop having sex together, it's only a matter of time before they separate.

[catman20]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The last thing he needs is a mia noi or a gik- the couple are suffering from overwork and no real help from the children. All they do is work to stay alive and that in itself is depressing. No one is really interested in a sexual relationship when they feel hopeless. Unfortunately this is the way life everywhere in the World has developed and part of the reason is the massive selfishness of the wealthy and governments protecting them.

I am glad I am retired  ...the rat race has gotten worse each year.

after 30 year i dont think i would be interested in a sexual relationship with the woman.

[Thaidream]

When you have been married for 30 years or more- sex is not the primary preoccupation. In Thailand, it's easy to find a new partner- but after 30 year there is a bond that ties people together; children; and the highs and lows of life.  Most young people will never find out as their divorce rate averages around 50% .

[smo]

Wow, it must be the rainy season! ie when it rains it pours. My original post went on board the 1st of May, immediately fell into oblivion which made methink TV members are not interested in non-inter-racial marriage therefore me barking up the wrong tree. Then 10 days later, in the last 24 hrs a torrent of replies comes in like the downpour, and still is as I type....

 

YES - in regard to:

 

1) money - wife holds the purse strings; they are not the stingy type, probably due to remaining habits from their once affluent gone-by era; at present time, after/before any so-called frivolous expenditure ("let's go to Santa Fe upstairs (at the Mall) for a quick bite!") there is always some quick under-bated-breath discussion. The husband occupies himself with counting pennies, or in this case, satangs.

 

One post here, I think from Thaidream, really hits the nail on the head = money => the house. Case in point, the reason they took me to their village over Songkran was to see if that's the place I think I can see myself retire to (on their plot of land and therefore would  "fork out" to build "our" house where we can all get old together!) Being a veteran TV member I of course demurred! The wife seemed quite disappointed but being a good sport, got over that pretty quick. The hard blow for her was when the bank turned them down. It seemed to have caused a big fracas between the two of them that luckily I was spared of, but did notice the fallout effects nevertheless.

 

2) sex - I'm not sure their sex live is still salvageable. She has passed her sell-by date and no effort, though not for lack of trying, to "redo" herself would bring about any improvement except into sharp relief the hopelessness of it. The fact that she doesn't see it/herself realistically is one common human foible (most of) us (still) hold dear until someone tells us to take a good hard look in the mirror. As for him, yes I agree with one previous reply that their interaction/respect for each other (mainly him) or lackthereof might have esmasculated him to the point where sex, or more importantly, intimacy has gone out the window.

 

On the other hand, I can imagine, as some posts here have also mentioned, that in a 30-year plus marriage sex no longer plays an important role - but where do we go from here? Giving up sex altogether? Never having gone down that road before (hmmm,... more on that later) I myself wonder how any married/partnered male could go without sex for any long(ish) period of time (loud disclaimer here:****no offence intended to anyone****) and not becoming a timebomb of sort. 

 

3) the children - again I agree with one reply here that they need a good kick in the butts. The eldest girl has recently found work, or rather her boyfriend has found some office supply delivery work that she can accompany him and help out, though that does mean taking the family SUV and leaving the parents to take bus/taxi to work/shop at Makro.

 

4) ***last but not least*** the 3rd wheel ie yours truly - I think I have become the surrogate child to both of them even though I'm older than both. The fact that I'm gay a) and farang seems oddly enough/or thereby to be the novelty they need to spice up their humdrum life - b  )takes away any sexual tension that (western) observers might see this as a potential menage a trois! (she does joke that I might want to take him out for a date, "see how it goes...") Thus I agree with one previous reply saying that I might be of help to their strained circumstance: like a court jester, I injected much needed levity and cheerfulness into their seemingly no-exit situation which might just go on until?(=the original question/topic of this thread).

 

Please keep more coming - I appreciate/enjoy all brain-storming, butt-kicking inputs so far.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

Your rationale is more along the Western lines, when husband and wife worked together to make a better life for them and their kids.Many couples made a success of it, many didn't. But win or lose, they loved each other, and that was what held families together, win, lose, or draw. The emotion of love, or compassion,, is not an emotion felt by Thais.They do not understand love as we know it. Love to them is feeling secure and safe in a relationship, when the rest of their friends are not.I am not stupid to believe that my wife loves me to a passion, but she knows that, i will never leave her, i will never cheat on her and i will always be there for her. She has the same feelings. I am happy in my life to accept this, because it is the best thing that any of us can hope for. Any man that believes anything more, is kidding himself.

[whaleboneman]

7 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The one thing that will change this marriage is money.  It is the root of the unhappiness. If their dream was a house and the bank turned them down it obviously has had an affect for the worse on them.  The children could really help their parents by getting jobs but I have the feeling that the kids won't take minimum wage.. The parents may be able to find a guarantor for their house amongst family or very close friends.  The problem is not sex- it is depression because they cannot fulfill their dreams or aspirations and no one is helping them from the family. They need encouragement to look for some creative ways to get that house such as an increase in income or other financing.

I learned a valuable lesson from a really wonderful person- never give up-

Seems silly to try and get a house when they are having trouble making car payments. More debt will definitely not help this couple.

[sandemara]

I don't understand why the OP can't mind his own damned business and leave the couple to get on with their lives. It strikes me the OP might be an emotional succubus, exploiting this couple to satisfy his own need for real-life soap opera dramas. Unhealthy, not likely to end well for any in this triangle.

[smo]

On 5/16/2017 at 6:45 PM, Thaidream said:

When you have been married for 30 years or more- sex is not the primary preoccupation. In Thailand, it's easy to find a new partner- but after 30 year there is a bond that ties people together; children; and the highs and lows of life.  Most young people will never find out as their divorce rate averages around 50% .

 

On 5/16/2017 at 9:21 PM, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Your rationale is more along the Western lines, when husband and wife worked together to make a better life for them and their kids.Many couples made a success of it, many didn't. But win or lose, they loved each other, and that was what held families together, win, lose, or draw. The emotion of love, or compassion,, is not an emotion felt by Thais.They do not understand love as we know it. Love to them is feeling secure and safe in a relationship, when the rest of their friends are not.

Seems like we have two opposite view points as above...or are they not?

 

On 5/16/2017 at 11:41 PM, whaleboneman said:

Seems silly to try and get a house when they are having trouble making car payments. More debt will definitely not help this couple.

You're right whaleboneman in this aspect, the couple seems to have money management issue (especially the wife - thus explainiing the husband having his own atm card.) I myself have to be aware not to let myself treated as a walking atm for them sometimes as (some of us) farangs are so eager to open up our wallet.

[smo]

To sum things up from various inputs/observations of all and sundry: the husband has abdicated responsibilities sometime ago as the breadwinner and left that role to the wife. She begrudgingly took it up, having no choice and wearing herself down in the process. Moreover, the whole family is not doing well partly because the children are not helping but still living off the household means ie they still weigh the parents down. Love/intimacy or whatever embedded as such in our farang concept is no longer part of the discussion, money is. In the meantime each of the couple is left to find personal peace/contentment within him/herself and whatever strenght it takes to carry on. The outlook seems like the wife's health will run down and she collapse on the job one day, only then will there be some (major or minor) decision to be made. But right now, life as it is goes on.... 

 

(At my local mall, on an empty floor, if not for one Fuji restaurant branch, one middle-age still looking strong man in nice clean uniform stands guard outside the restaurant entrance, half of the time leaning on the balcony trying to prop himself up from falling asleep. That is his post, not more than 10 square feet of real estate, where he would spend the major part of his work hours. I could never understand how one can work as such job day in day out. But now I think my friend the husband is the type that would handle such occupation splendidly!)

[smo]

5 minutes ago, smo said:

To sum things up from various inputs/observations of all and sundry: the husband has abdicated responsibilities sometime ago as the breadwinner and left that role to the wife. She begrudgingly took it up, having no choice and wearing herself down in the process. Moreover, the whole family is not doing well partly because the children are not helping but still living off the household means ie they still weigh the parents down. Love/intimacy or whatever embedded as such in our farang concept is no longer part of the discussion, money is. In the meantime each of the couple is left to find personal peace/contentment within him/herself and whatever strenght it takes to carry on. The outlook seems like the wife's health will run down and she collapse on the job one day, only then will there be some (major or minor) decision to be made. But right now, life as it is goes on.... 

 

(At my local mall, on an empty floor, if not for one Fuji restaurant branch, one middle-age still looking strong man in nice clean uniform stands guard outside the restaurant entrance, half of the time leaning on the balcony trying to prop himself up from falling asleep. That is his post, not more than 3 square feet of real estate, where he would spend the major part of his work hours. I could never understand how one can work as such job day in day out. But now I think my friend the husband is the type that would handle such occupation splendidly!)

Sorry for the accidental double posting (clicking quote instead of edit). the edit here was from 10 to 3 square feet