Cash-strapped teachers offered loans to clear debts

[robblok]

12 minutes ago, welshissan said:

In answer to 1 of your questions yes Thai English teachers earn more, where I live, than ordinary teachers. 

Unfortunately they cannot string a sentence together of more than a few words. 

As for the math teacher 9/2=4+1? Calculator is wrong! 

I teach my children, and grandchildren proper use of English and maths, none of this Thai stuff

Thai English teachers should of course speak good English.. Seems logical to me.. the comment was a reply to why only a small portion of all teachers speak good English. I don't see what a biology teacher / history teacher has to do with English. I don't see why English is so important to others besides for teaching English. If your an English teacher you should command the subject you are teaching. 

[connda]

I've taught English to Thai school teachers with degrees in English.  Most had very low English proficiency.  These teachers are really naught but the blind leading the blind, and no doubt they were taught University level English by some other Thai who lacked fluency in the English language.  Realistically I'd say that of the teachers who attended my course, the majority wanted the certificate of completion and lots of pictures to paste on Facebook.  A handful were really interested in improving their skills.  Sad state of affairs really.
Regarding the inability to manage money: obviously a high level University degree has no correlation to the common sense and having money management skills. Or perhaps there is an inverse correlation considering that some upper level government wonk is advocating issuing new debt to those with debt problems.  It's like giving a heroin addict a new stash of heroin in order to cure them of their opiate addiction. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by connda

[Srikcir]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

help teachers get out of debt

In November 2015 the government had a similar debt-relief program between the Government Savings Bank and the Ministry of Education.  Now again?

Seems the message to the public is that teachers are rewarded for loan defaults, at least by the Prayut government.

 

[Prbkk]

4 hours ago, colinneil said:

Why are so many teachers in serious debt situation?

Easy answer, is because it is too easy for them to borrow money.

The teachers savings and credit crowd just give them loans just because they are teachers.

A local teacher gets just 2000 baht per month from her salary, because the remainder is taken out of her salary to repay loans.

Stop lending them money that they cannot pay back, then it is problem solved.

Maybe in theory but the better solution is to pay a real living wage. The salaries are obscenely low by international standards; Thailand can afford to pay more and if it did so would attract better students into education courses and better quality teachers in the medium term. Sure there's lots of dead wood in the system and the seniority scheme is ludicrous, but continuing to pay subsistence wages is a major part of the problem as well.

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

In November 2015 the government had a similar debt-relief program between the Government Savings Bank and the Ministry of Education.  Now again?

Seems the message to the public is that teachers are rewarded for loan defaults, at least by the Prayut government.

 

Something similar happened with the rice farmers under YL.. seems they both are wrong.. and I dislike this kind of stuff.. as you pointed out it only rewards bad people.. not the ones that do save. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by robblok

[kaorop]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?

 

Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.

 

Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

yes many many jobs require english, and many more are keen to learn,

Thailand exports a lot and many countries have bases here, do know what language a say a korean company with thai employees in thailand communicate with the HQ in korea? yes you guessed it English

umm most of the internet is in english, i can look up how to do something i cant do and find out

most technical and medical and etc etc are written in english

people with 2 languages are generally better off than people with one

 

i could go on if i were smart enough, like if i knew 2 languages

i've seen it firsthand, worked it, lived it and understand it, I dont believe you do.

[robblok]

Just now, kaorop said:

yes many many jobs require english, and many more are keen to learn,

Thailand exports a lot and many countries have bases here, do know what language a say a korean company with thai employees in thailand communicate with the HQ in korea? yes you guessed it English

umm most of the internet is in english, i can look up how to do something i cant do and find out

most technical and medical and etc etc are written in english

people with 2 languages are generally better off than people with one

 

i could go on if i were smart enough, like if i knew 2 languages

i've seen it firsthand, worked it, lived it and understand it, I dont believe you do.

Yes, in jobs where you need it you need it. Guess how many really need it.. its negligible compared to the total amount of students. 

 

So in your experience.. all people who work for a Korean / Japanese / foreign company communicate in English with the HQ.. or just those high up. Would you say someone on the production line needs the English... I guess you get my point. The amount of people that really needs English is small.

 

I know more then a few languages being Dutch and all, so I know the importance of learning other languages. But my country is small and insignificant and is dependent on trade so its normal for us to learn languages. Here however the large majority of people don't need English, those higher up do.. but they are just a small part.

 

In general its the expats here that keep complaining that the cashier at 711 does not speak English or the car sales man ect. The people higher up the food chain that need English can speak it usually. 

[Machiavelli]

4 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

How do you clear debts by taking out loans? 

Happens with businesses and countries all the time. 

[zaphod reborn]

6 hours ago, jaltsc said:

From what I've heard about the teachers' ability to educate their students, most of them are being overpaid.

 

How about updating the archaic system based on seniority, and train teachers to do an adequate job? In order to attract better qualified individuals, implement an increased pay scale based on teaching proficiency, not on how long one has been taking up space int the classroom.

Fine and dandy, but it's the other way around.  The teachers aren't motivated to perform because they are paid so poorly and overburdened with ridiculous requirements that change on a daily basis.  In the meanwhile, the MOE and school administrators are driving BMW's and Mercedes and have 2-3 houses sucking up all the money that was supposed to be budgeted for the teachers, students and facilities.  Most teachers I know rarely show up for their classes because they are working another job or operating a side business.  Something they are forced to do, because they aren't paid a livable wage.  Yes, the teachers need better training, but, in the first instance, they need to be incentivized and not saddled with more loan programs.

[colinneil]

9 minutes ago, zaphod reborn said:

 school administrators are driving BMW's and Mercedes and have 2-3 houses sucking up all the money that was supposed to be budgeted for the teachers, students and facilities.  

 

Total nonsense, my wife drives an Isuzu pickup, bought by me.

We only have 1 house, so where ever you got your information from is wrong.

[elgordo38]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

According to the OTEP, up to 15,000 of the country’s 1.4 million teachers are in desperate need of financial assistance. Under the MoU, a loan programme will be initiated in Phetchaburi province, a model for the scheme. 

This figure sounds really low when looking at the total. Live and learn should be the answer especially for teachers. I think I remember reading this same problem last year or the year before. Percentage wise I doubt their debt levels are below average as the higher the status the higher the living cost (keep up with the Joneses) Something does not sound right here

[pookiki]

As noted by an earlier post, the percentage of teachers with debt problems is less than 2%.   That means more than 98% are doing just fine.  But why are such programs restricted to teachers? If people are having problems with managing their money, the government should intervene to help everyone.  Financial counseling, debt consolidation, and low interest loans are sound ideas.  Many Thais get caught in large debt loads because they turn to money lenders who charge 20% per month on loans.  Black listing by banks is another problem. 

[elgordo38]

9 minutes ago, pookiki said:

As noted by an earlier post, the percentage of teachers with debt problems is less than 2%.   That means more than 98% are doing just fine.  But why are such programs restricted to teachers? If people are having problems with managing their money, the government should intervene to help everyone.  Financial counseling, debt consolidation, and low interest loans are sound ideas.  Many Thais get caught in large debt loads because they turn to money lenders who charge 20% per month on loans.  Black listing by banks is another problem. 

While I find the numbers suspect your right on course otherwise. 2% maybe should be handled by oops your bankrupt like everyone else in life. The government is showing a bias here. 

[robblok]

11 minutes ago, pookiki said:

As noted by an earlier post, the percentage of teachers with debt problems is less than 2%.   That means more than 98% are doing just fine.  But why are such programs restricted to teachers? If people are having problems with managing their money, the government should intervene to help everyone.  Financial counseling, debt consolidation, and low interest loans are sound ideas.  Many Thais get caught in large debt loads because they turn to money lenders who charge 20% per month on loans.  Black listing by banks is another problem. 

Agreed, just like the help for farmers by PTP should have been for all Thais not just pouring in money to the farmers because they were a good voting block. Same thing here with the teachers again people are singled out for special treatment. These kind of programs should be open to all. Though I do understand that this could just mean people will go in debt deeper expecting to be bailed out. The bad apples get helped and those that do live within their means pay tax to support who don't.

 

That is a problem though that bad behavior seems to be rewarded while good behavior is not. 

[muzmurray]

3 hours ago, optad said:

The scary statistic in that article is that there are 1.4 million teachers in Thailand and few of these educators speak English. 

 

How do you educate the ASEAN youth with primitive educators? Think Singapore and think centuries away in time and aspect, kms in distance!!

 

The system inducts low horizon teachers who cannot manage their own finances yet demand a 'wai' and deliver a whack on whim. 

 

<deleted>.uP

 

 

 

Can you explain why a Thai maths teacher should be able to speak English? In fact, can you explain why you think the majority of Thai teachers should speak English?

[kannot]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?

 

Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.

 

Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

Wife told me she learnt English free at the temple to.get a higher salary, dont know if its true  but thats what she said.................. easier to marry an Englishman like me buy some condos and set her up in business......which I did.....11 years ago now

[robblok]

1 minute ago, kannot said:

Wife told me she learnt English free at the temple to.get a higher salary, dont know if its true  but thats what she said.................. easier to marry an Englishman like me buy some condos and set her up in business......which I did.....11 years ago now

I don't know your wife, I do know that one of the problems here is that the TV shows are all in Thai. Where I come from we don't put Dutch soundtracks over TV shows. That was one of the reasons our English was better than that of our German neighbors for instance. 

 

I am not saying English is useless, I like that I mastered it. Its just that when the old farts here start to comment on English it means they want the cashier at 711 and others to speak good English. Even in my country not everyone is good at it and we got quite good education. If you don't need it in your job or like the advantages of the language you will never learn it, or if you have learned it you will forget a lot.

 

Same goes for Thai the more i use the better it gets and I am still way below many of the people here who can actually read it. Still i find it idiotic if you live in a foreign country and can't even speak a bit of the language and then moan that everyone should speak English.

 

I mean what use is English here to most Thais.. almost no use. I rather have a good teacher that teaches good math and sucks at English (as he is a math teacher) then one that sucks at math and speaks decent English but cant teach math. If you know English it does not mean your smart, you just mastered a language and some do that more easily than others. I am lousy with my hands (mechanical things) but great with numbers and Tax laws ect. All you can expect of someone is to be good at his chosen profession. Why add English to the mix. That was all i commented on (and since then an other too)

[williamgeorgeallen]

like solving a junkies problems by giving them more drugs.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

6 hours ago, jonclark said:

I think this needs explaining a bit more what is meant by the term debt - does it include mortgage, car repayments, credit cards or is this unofficial debt? 

The debts you list, are called 'respectable debt' At least that's what my mortgage lender told me, when i bought my first house. Lying bastard!

[pookiki]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Agreed, just like the help for farmers by PTP should have been for all Thais not just pouring in money to the farmers because they were a good voting block. Same thing here with the teachers again people are singled out for special treatment. These kind of programs should be open to all. Though I do understand that this could just mean people will go in debt deeper expecting to be bailed out. The bad apples get helped and those that do live within their means pay tax to support who don't.

 

That is a problem though that bad behavior seems to be rewarded while good behavior is not. 

Going back to late 2007, early 2008, I seem to remember that the whole global capitalist system was bailed out.  Lost over half of my retirement savings that were in stocks.  I can't perceive a whole lot of change in behavior in the people who got us in the mess to start with.  Meanwhile....................

[homeseeker]

So can anyone list the range of average salaries monthly/yearly received by teachers in Thailand @ 2017?

[Khon Kaen Dave]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?

 

Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.

 

Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

Whats wrong with learning another laguage? How can it hurt to be able to make a little conversation with someone from another country There are more countries in this world that can speak English than any other in the world. ou can place Spanish as a close second.Why are all the road signs and place names both in Thai and in English?I live in KK and there are many 7/11 and Lotus girls who can speak a little English and they love doing it.I, myself, am not a language smith, but i can make my self understood in French,Spanish, and even here.The parents in the village in which i live are constantly asking me to give the kids some English lessons( i taught for 3 years in an international school in Patts)They want their kids to learn. The world, is, becoming an increasingly small place, and the knowledge of how to speak to each other is of paramount importance.The Thais understand this, very well. And you can scoff at bar girls if you want, but i have heard some of them speaking remarkably good English. One girl i knew, could speak a little German, Italian, and even Japanese, but    English was her strongest language.

My 'present wife' speaks , writes and reads English. It took me a few years for me to get the Thai/English that she was taught,  up to Mathiom 6 out of her system, but that was because she had a Thai teacher, that taught her 'Engrish'

I think that your post was a little uneducated, because learning languages is the future of the world and its not right to deny them as you would do.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Khon Kaen Dave
spelling error

[robblok]

5 minutes ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Whats wrong with learning another laguage? How can it hurt to be able to make a little conversation with someone from another country There are more countries in this world that can speak English than any other in the world. ou can place Spanish as a close second.Why are all the road signs and place names both in Thai and in English?I live in KK and there are many 7/11 and Lotus girls who can speak a little English and they love doing it.I, myself, am not a language smith, but i can make my self understood in French,Spanish, and even here.The parents in the village in which i live are constantly asking me to give the kids some English lessons( i taught for 3 years in an international school in Patts)They want their kids to learn. The world, is, becoming an increasingly small place, and the knowledge of how to speak to each other is of paramount importance.The Thais understand this, very well. And you can scoff at bar girls if you want, but i have heard some of them speaking remarkably good English. One girl i knew, could speak a little German, Italian, and even Japanese, but    English was her strongest language.

My 'present wife' speaks , writes and reads English. It took me a few years for me to get the Thai/English that she learnned up to Mathiom 6 out of her system, but that was because she had a Thai teacher, that taught her 'Engrish'

I think that your post was a little uneducated, because learning languages is the future of the world and its not right to deny them as you would do.

So do you speak Thai ?

 

Its good to learn a language if you need it.. otherwise why bother there are more important things to learn. Tell me why a cashier should learn English ?

 

just for the record the signs are not in English.. the sings are just using latin script. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by robblok

[Khon Kaen Dave]

13 minutes ago, robblok said:

So do you speak Thai ?

 

Its good to learn a language if you need it.. otherwise why bother there are more important things to learn. Tell me why a cashier should learn English ?

Yes i speak enough Thai/Isaan,  to make myself understood, and if they speak slowly, i can understand the gist of what they are saying.

As for your second question, i think the question should be," why would she not want to learn how to learn a language, which is the second language of her country(even if the Thais wont admit it)and is fast spreading over the country due to the influx of people who just dont want to live in Pattaya.I bet she would be pleased to, if given the chance.Also,the cashier of which you speak, where would she be cashiering (sic), cos if it is in any of the seaside resorts, English would be a pretty handy language to have.I even think that 7/11 employees are now encouraged to learn a little  English. Thats English! not German, or French, or Russian, or Mandabloodyrin, or Japanese, English!.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Khon Kaen Dave
spelling error

[Thongkorn]

Maybe  Paying the teachers and all essential Public Services a good living wage is the Answer.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Khon Kaen Dave said:

Yes i speak enough Thai/Isaan,  to make myself understood, and if they speak slowly, i can understand the gist of what they are saying.

As for your second question, i think the question should be," why would she not want to learn how to learn a language, which is the second language of her country(even if the Thais wont admit it)and is fast spreading over the country due to the influx of people who just dont want to live in Pattaya.I bet she would be pleaesed to, if given the chance.Also,the cashier of which you speak, where would she be cashiering (sic), cos if it is in any of the seaside resorts, English would be a pretty handy language to have.I even think that 7/11 employees are now encouraged to learn a little  English. Thats English! not German, or French, or Russian, or Mandabloodyrin, or Japanese, English!.

I speak enough too.. i feel people should.

 

In Pattaya its useful to speak English (however why put in the effort if it does not mean extra salary) But what is the point of learning English if you are stuck as a cashier in Nakhon Nowhere. Point I am making and your avoiding.. most don't really need English> ia m all for those in contact with tourists or in the tourist places to learn English. 

[Thongkorn]

2 minutes ago, robblok said:

I speak enough too.. i feel people should.

 

In Pattaya its useful to speak English (however why put in the effort if it does not mean extra salary) But what is the point of learning English if you are stuck as a cashier in Nakhon Nowhere. Point I am making and your avoiding.. most don't really need English> ia m all for those in contact with tourists or in the tourist places to learn English. 

Dont need to learn English, More people in China speak English than in America, So learning English would be a great benefit to any of them . But realistically the Thai Government dont want Thai people to learn English, becasue they will find out the real truths of the world, I tought my Thai wife English, She now can speak with most other nationalities in the world and has a diffrent and more realistic view of the world,

[zaphod reborn]

2 hours ago, colinneil said:

Total nonsense, my wife drives an Isuzu pickup, bought by me.

We only have 1 house, so where ever you got your information from is wrong.

And what is she doing with her salary and extra envelopes, if you paid for the pickup and house?

Edited May 8, 2017 by zaphod reborn

[ben2talk]

Great lets leave them to starve then

I think you fail to understand. If somebody is doing a job, and the income is not sufficient, then you should simply increase the income. Offering them a loan, which they must pay back with interest, and cost them more and it will leave them poorer in the long run.


Sent from my nose.

[optad]

4 hours ago, robblok said:

What is it with that need to speak English.. its not needed here.. people speak Thai.. ok some expats don't want or can't learn Thai so they want others to learn English but to what benefit of the student ?. Do tell me do they get a higher salary if they speak English ? Or is it just fo the ease of the lazy foreigner that does not want to learn the local language ?

 

Now for jobs in hotels and in the tourist industry I get the need, international trading.. again yes.. but for a cashier.. no need as the majority of clients are THAI.

 

Now why would a biology or a math teacher need to speak English.. i rather have a good math teacher then a bad one that can speak English. English is overrated and is only needed in those jobs where the majority of people they come in contact with speak English not for other jobs just because lazy old foreigners don't want to learn other languages. 

I am a bit surprised by your pov Rob. 

 

You have reduced, language, an educational cornerstone to a debate between culture and independence when clearly the type of education Thais want, need and aspire to and what i was talking was not as mutually exclusive to the points you make. 

 

ASEAN beggars language literacies and ASEAN has nominated English as it lingua franca. Not my choice. As a multi linguist yourself, you understand the critical understanding and cultural empathies other languages bring. Every aspect of Thailand's membership in this block depends upon communicative functions and it is well below current standards by its own MoE measurements.

 

Nowhere did I impune that the cost of learning English was at the expense of a sense of identity or what it was to be 'Thai'.

 

I did lament that the roundedness of Thai education was foreshortened by the limitations of its teachers. They do not have the knowledge content required generally nor the empathies multi-lingualism brings let alone the methodologies to renovate their teaching pedagogies. Critical thinking is sorely lacking as practice in Thai subjects yet the founding block of so many other curricula for holistic educational reasons. Just look at the International Baccalaureate curricula. CT is the basis of all subjects and concurrency of learning is not confined to one subject such as mentioned; biology or mathematics. Antiquated thinking and teaching.

 

Lastly, Thai teachers are by and large retrograde, i.e non progressive in attitude and pedagogies. Needing to debate my point with yours is their very own defense. But it is a defence for doing nothing and past failures and a failure to their very own student base. Teaching positions in Thailand and ascension are not meritorious but based on first come first served or seniority. Preservice teachers indeed are billeted to posts and oft remain. and regarding PD, the fact that IT connectedness has more impact on language literacy than classroom instruction is an indictment of thai educational pedagogy.

 

Thailand cannot progress without true multi lingualism and yet you fly that recalcitrant TV notion, language literacy is just for the lazy farang. Nominate any research Thailand has been able to contribute upon and then we have a discussion beyond the TV boundaries of the inane.