Bravecto/NexGard

[dick dasterdly]

Three months ago I first bought Bravecto (kills ticks) for my dogs, and it worked brilliantly - no more ticks, even on the one (sick) dog that didn't get the tablet !

 

Went back to the vet yesterday to buy more (as it only lasts 3 months) plus HeartGuard and discovered that there in now a new 'all in one' product (NexGard) that works against ticks and heartworm.

 

Posting this purely for informational purposes as ticks are a constantly recurring topic.

[Guderian]

My little dog has just had anemia caused by parasites from a tick bite but happily she's recovering well, see here:

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/988695-animal-hospital-with-dog-blood-for-transfusion/

 

I've been using Frontline Plus on the dog monthly for flea and tick control for several years. It's difficult to get it fully in contact with her skin, though, as she has a very thick coat, so inevitably half of it just ends up soaking into her fur.

 

The vet knew the problem and gave me a new product, NexGard Spectra. This is a chewable tablet that kills ticks and also protects against heartworm. It's a bit more expensive than Frontline Plus at 1140 Baht for a box of three tablets, but at least there's no waste and I know she's got the full dose once she's swallowed it. Last night I noticed a dead tick on the bed near where the dog was lying, it wasn't bloated at all so hadn't managed to feast on any significant amount of blood, but it looks like the NexGard is working.

[meatboy]

hi DD just been reading about NEXGARD its a new product made by the makers of frontline.

is does say on this websight 1-800-PETMED it only protects against flea's and ticks and not heartworm.

i have been useing heartgard and control line for quite awhile but those are not available anymore from our regular supplier.

so check as to what it actually protects against.what they say the chewable tab can be taken ALONG SIDE HEARTWORM TABS.

[meatboy]

this nexgard has been on the market for over 30months,and what the wife has been reading on facebook  there are some horrific stories.

there is a lot of conflicting evidence,one websight says apart from fleas and ticks it also prevents,roundworms.

                                                                                                                                                                               hookworms.

                                                                                                                                                                                 whipworms.

so once again we have to be WARY what we give our beloved.

one thing it does state,it should only be available PRESCRIPTION ONLY.by approved vets.

[meatboy]

further to what i read yesterday about what nexgard contains.AFOXOLANER.

everyone needs to google AFOXOLANER then click on PARASITIPEDIA TOXICITY,POISONING,INTOXICATION AND ANTIDOTE.

this published feb.2017 you MUST read carefully and follow the SAFETY instructions.

READ ALL THE INFORMATION GIVEN.

[wildewillie89]

There are many Facebook groups that have fear campaigns against Bravecto and NexGard, however, the two products are promoted back home as the main forms of treatment as they do a better job, and most importantly, are tested/approved. They also treat Demodectic Mange. In terms of the illnesses the drugs may or may not cause, they both are still within the allowed margin for error if you like. How many % of animals get sick vs how many is allowed to get sick before the drug is banned. I think when Frontline first came out the same shit went on. Yes, you will get the odd dog that will react negatively, but that is exactly the same with all treatments. Looking at the Facebook page that want to ban it, it seems more dogs died from other causes that were just blamed on the treatments  - as the owner didn't want to take responsibility.  

My puppy had a stubborn case of Demodectic Mange, we did the full option Thai treamtent, that ended up costing 20,000 baht. I got sick and tired of the dog taking in too many drugs on a regular basis. I did some research and got the old man to send in Bravecto from back home. The mange was gone (checked under the microscope), within 6 weeks. No negative side effects. Now as she is above the 40kg mark, the vet has recommended NexGard (as I think Thai company is only licensed to sell the 40kg Bravecto, not the 56kg one). The vet also said it is one of very few dogs in the city he has seen with perfect blood and no tick diseases. 

Being someone who is currently recovering from Rickettsia (got from the in-laws dog who used to live sometimes with our dog), i think it would be moronic not to use these drugs. The in-laws dog was treated for fleas and ticks with the Frontline, collars, and the injection. I have found Frontline just doesn't cut it in many parts of Thailand. I think at the end of duration it lasts for, Frontline is only 80% effective, where as these newer treatments are still high 90s. As it showed, my dog who lived with the in-laws dog never had any ticks passed on to give her the disease as she was treated with Bravecto (now NexGard). 

So i look at this way. Minimal chance of negative reaction, which the dog can have with any treatment, or potentially not treating the dog as well as you can. and possibly ending up with life threatening illnesses - to both the dog and humans. A no brainer for me. Today I find out if the lesions on my spleen and right kidney are abscesses. That was after going through seizures, prolonged fever, vomiting, diarrhoea, body pain, migraines, and a liver and spleen twice the size it is meant to be. All could have been prevented if the in-laws dog was treated with Bravecto/NexGard and not Frontline.    

If i lived back in Melbourne, where fleas and ticks were not everywhere, and where they didn't carry diseases, sure Frontline may be sufficient. But I live in rural Thailand, where ticks diseases are everywhere (up to 24% of dogs in some villages infected), strays running around everywhere further infecting, and even most non-strays are not treated. Use Bravecto or NexGard!  

Edited June 26, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

welcome to the pets forum WW.

over the past 2yrs.my wife and i have had hell with parasite's both the tick ones and the ones that dont care one bit for the welfare of your beloved as long as they can use them as an A.T.M.

the problem with most meds.is not are they safe,its the country THAILAND IS NOT A SAFE PLACE to bring up any pet.

there is so much danger it makes you paranoid,apart from what our boy has had to go through i only use CONTROLINE AND HEARTGARD.

[wildewillie89]

I too was skeptical of Bravecto initially. However, i had a close friend who just finished vet school back in Melbourne. She was volunteering in a clinic in Canada before that and said it is 100% okay (any treatment has risks, but the risks are no greater). One of my vets imported his from a friend in Switzerland before Thai got the license to sell it. On top of that, for my dad to get it from the Greyhound track vet we go to back home (cant stand racing, but we know they are the best with dogs due to the animals they treat), all he had to do was explain the situation and they handed over it to him as they too have seen little to no problems with animals taking it. 

Thai is a shocker of a place to bring up animals. Our gates are obviously closed, we put shade cloth on the gates to prevent any dogs coming up to the gate. So the dog only interacts with other dogs on walks. But I am not too stressed about that, due to the treatments she is on. Also she is a Caucasian Shepherd, so many dogs are fearful to go up to her, not that they need to be, she loves dogs but Thai dogs are pretty timid with bigger dogs. 

Edited June 26, 2017 by wildewillie89

[meatboy]

i have not heard of any bad press about bravecto since the introduction here.

well reading your post,my dad got it from a greyhound track vet i thought i was goner be delighted to a good chinwag.

WHY meatboy I WAS A GREYHOUND TRAINER for over 20yrs. and yes they are the BEST VETS in the WORLD.

[wildewillie89]

Haha...the granddad was into it, and the old man naturally was involved growing up as a kid. But. me, not so much. Lot of bad press in Australia in my generation regarding Greyhound racing (live bait being used etc). But yes, the vets are good and a lot cheaper due to the continual work they get. Ours sometimes used to bring in human orthopaedic surgeons to do things like knees, etc. 

 

The vets here did have their doubts about Bravecto as they had seen a lot of the Facebook groups also. One of the vets here knew I was in the know back home and was even asking me when he should and should not give it. Now he is selling it twice as much as other vets and advertising it as a wonder drug. Fair to say I changed vets pretty quickly. Now I am at a vet who sold it here anyway before the license so at least he understands it a bit. 

 

Looking for a dog to join our family at the moment. Just so hard to find any good breeders. Was thinking of waiting to get the brother of our current dog in the next litter (as at least I know what I am getting into re hips, elbows etc). I don't mind if the dog has  mange if the structurally it is all clear - seeing as Bravecto deals with it quiet efficiently.  Being just shy of 2 metres myself, i prefer the bigger dogs, and we require them to look out for the kid (soon to be kids). 

[dick dasterdly]

We all know that bravecto/nexguard are poisons.

 

The impossible to answer question is whether this is worse for our dogs than frequent tick bites, and realising too late that our dog is seriously ill from a tick borne blood infection- sometimes too late.

[wildewillie89]

I think like everything in life you need to weigh up the risk analysis. Pros and cons if you like. Back home, where no real ticks then I would not use it. Here, where there are countless of infected ticks I would. Took me having a serious infection to learn that though.

On a side note, Mahidol University thinks many of the Malaria cases in Thai are actually its cousin bacteria Babesia. Babesiosis, is a disease that comes from ticks. And as much as people like to deny it, I have been told by infection specialists, cancer specialists, autoimmune specialists and many GPs that Lyme is here in Thai. Not to mention the reports of tourists travelling here and going back home to be diagnosed with it. 

When it has not only the potential to hurt your dog, but also your family, then I think that's when the choice to use the lab 'tested' poisons must start to be seriously considered. 

[meatboy]

having had dogs for over 50yrs.when moving to thailand perminent i had never heard about ticks.

it was through me not knowing about them caused my beloved to 2yrs.of misery.

i was very attached to our neighours little dog who spent a lot of time at our house,me not knowing he was covered in ticks,then when we got our boy he made freinds with the parasite carrier and untill he passed away i still wasnt concerned about our boy[avatar] untill one evening before going out for his walk he seemed drunk then contacting our vet i found out what it was.

then over 2-3yrs.and 5different vets who preyed on our love for our boy,they used him as an ATM.MACHINE.

the trouble was these vets knew i would pay any amount to make him well,with me and mrs.meat who have been together for over 30yrs.our boy is all we have so he is our life.hopefully after the wife 2months ago took him to the vetinary uni.[10hr.round trip] and found out we had been taken for a pair of suckers.

so you see WW.i now spend most of my time looking up information on medication and the safety of drugs that were given to him in the past.

meatboy LOVE ME LOVE MY DOG.

[dick dasterdly]

On 6/25/2017 at 0:41 PM, meatboy said:

hi DD just been reading about NEXGARD its a new product made by the makers of frontline.

is does say on this websight 1-800-PETMED it only protects against flea's and ticks and not heartworm.

i have been useing heartgard and control line for quite awhile but those are not available anymore from our regular supplier.

so check as to what it actually protects against.what they say the chewable tab can be taken ALONG SIDE HEARTWORM TABS.

There's no doubt that you're very well informed on the various drugs/medications.  I tried googling Nexguard and the website suggested, but am no further forward when it comes to knowing whether Frontline is needed in addition to Nexguard.....

 

I'm concerned as obviously the fewer poisons we give our dogs, the better.

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, meatboy said:

having had dogs for over 50yrs.when moving to thailand perminent i had never heard about ticks.

it was through me not knowing about them caused my beloved to 2yrs.of misery.

i was very attached to our neighours little dog who spent a lot of time at our house,me not knowing he was covered in ticks,then when we got our boy he made freinds with the parasite carrier and untill he passed away i still wasnt concerned about our boy[avatar] untill one evening before going out for his walk he seemed drunk then contacting our vet i found out what it was.

then over 2-3yrs.and 5different vets who preyed on our love for our boy,they used him as an ATM.MACHINE.

the trouble was these vets knew i would pay any amount to make him well,with me and mrs.meat who have been together for over 30yrs.our boy is all we have so he is our life.hopefully after the wife 2months ago took him to the vetinary uni.[10hr.round trip] and found out we had been taken for a pair of suckers.

so you see WW.i now spend most of my time looking up information on medication and the safety of drugs that were given to him in the past.

meatboy LOVE ME LOVE MY DOG.

I sincerely sympathise as my 'baby' dog had a broken leg for 2 weeks (with a vet insisting it was just bruised/sprained etc when I went back every day or two - equally insistent something was wrong....) - until my brother said that perhaps the vet hadn't X-rayed the leg.

 

He was right - the vet (a kind and caring man) that dealt mainly with the poor - was used to keeping costs to the minimum for his customers and hadn't X-rayed the leg .  I never used the vet again, which is unfortunate insofar as he was genuinely a good man who provided his services for free to the local rescue centre.

 

Sometimes (mostly?) the vets are either trying to reduce customer costs or, aren't educated enough to recognise/deal with the problems?

[wildewillie89]

4 hours ago, meatboy said:

having had dogs for over 50yrs.when moving to thailand perminent i had never heard about ticks.

it was through me not knowing about them caused my beloved to 2yrs.of misery.

i was very attached to our neighours little dog who spent a lot of time at our house,me not knowing he was covered in ticks,then when we got our boy he made freinds with the parasite carrier and untill he passed away i still wasnt concerned about our boy[avatar] untill one evening before going out for his walk he seemed drunk then contacting our vet i found out what it was.

then over 2-3yrs.and 5different vets who preyed on our love for our boy,they used him as an ATM.MACHINE.

the trouble was these vets knew i would pay any amount to make him well,with me and mrs.meat who have been together for over 30yrs.our boy is all we have so he is our life.hopefully after the wife 2months ago took him to the vetinary uni.[10hr.round trip] and found out we had been taken for a pair of suckers.

so you see WW.i now spend most of my time looking up information on medication and the safety of drugs that were given to him in the past.

meatboy LOVE ME LOVE MY DOG.

It is good to look into medication of course. But seeing as these drugs have passed standards (dogs over 8 weeks old) and seeing as in many areas they are the only strong enough poisons to stop the ticks then it doesn't leave us much choice. Which is very sad, but we did choose to live in a third world country after all. We tried the Frontlines, the collars, the injections, and in our area (rural), we may as well have just been pouring coke cola on the dogs, all options were exhausted - and with little kids around the place, the infection I got would have more likely than not resulted in their death. 

No other treatments are required if take Nexgard. I will never use Frontline on our dogs again whilst living in Thai. I only just started Nexgard, so I will see if my dog has any negative reactions, if she does, then back to two dosages of Bravecto (due to size).

Finding a good vet is important, the universities i hear are good and cheap, but yes, unless you live close to one it is not always much help. We had a shitty vet first, but now I have found a reasonable one. At least has an x-ray and blood test machine in the clinic so even if he is an idiot, i can at least get the results and send them to friends back home. He is perfectly happy to vaccinate rabies every 3 years instead of 1 (reduce amount of poisons going in the dog) as he knows im 'farang'. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

24 minutes ago, wildewillie89 said:

It is good to look into medication of course. But seeing as these drugs have passed standards (dogs over 8 weeks old) and seeing as in many areas they are the only strong enough poisons to stop the ticks then it doesn't leave us much choice. Which is very sad, but we did choose to live in a third world country after all. We tried the Frontlines, the collars, the injections, and in our area (rural), we may as well have just been pouring coke cola on the dogs, all options were exhausted - and with little kids around the place, the infection I got would have more likely than not resulted in their death. 

No other treatments are required if take Nexgard. I will never use Frontline on our dogs again whilst living in Thai. I only just started Nexgard, so I will see if my dog has any negative reactions, if she does, then back to two dosages of Bravecto (due to size).

Finding a good vet is important, the universities i hear are good and cheap, but yes, unless you live close to one it is not always much help. We had a shitty vet first, but now I have found a reasonable one. At least has an x-ray and blood test machine in the clinic so even if he is an idiot, i can at least get the results and send them to friends back home. He is perfectly happy to vaccinate rabies every 3 years instead of 1 as he knows im 'farang'. 

In terms of safety of the drugs: 
 
(415 dogs in study) In the margin of safety study, Nexgard was given at 1, 3, and 5x the recommended dose, with only vomiting noted as an adverse event.  All lab data collected from all dogs was normal. 

(294 dogs in study)Bravecto was given at 1, 3, and 5x the recommended dose, with diarrhea and vomiting noted as adverse events.  All lab data collected from all dogs was normal.

Maybe if we look at it like vaccines. Yeah the Measles vaccine gives our babies a fever and a rash, however, it is a lot less dangerous than if the baby got full blown measles. 

Seeing as we do live in a country full of disease, then maybe we see it the same. Yes, the dog has a 4% chance of having a side effect (vomiting most common), but if the dog does pick up the disease if it doesn't have the poison, then what are symptoms of the diseases? Body pains, vomiting, diarrhoea, enlargement of organs, organ failure, death etc etc. 

Obviously many dogs will not get symptoms as many humans also don't. In our situation the in-laws dog had absolutely no symptoms to having a tick disease, it just showed up in the blood test. However, when I got the bacteria in my blood it made my life hell. 

I understand the concern about the drugs...like I said, I do really wish I wasn't forced into giving them such strong poisons. But from what I have seen so far, my dog hasn't had any reactions (only positive outcomes - killing mange, fleas, ticks), so i must weigh up the risks of diseases like, Rickettsia (Typhus Group, Spotted Fever  Group, Ehrlichiosis, Anaplasmosis ), Babesiosis, Lyme, Bartonella, etc for the dog and humans. 

Edited June 27, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

47 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Something I miss in nearly all replies here.

 

All mentioned "medicines" against ticks (Frontline, Bravecto, Ivermectine, etc.) does not protect your dog from tick born diseases! The problem is that the tick dies after it had the blood from your dog. So an infected tick who drinks from your dog is still likely to infect your dog. The "medicines" reduces the change for a sickness from your dog significant, when you use it consequent, because the amount of ticks in you area will reduce dramatically.

 

Please do not think when you use one of the "medicines" that your dog is protect against tick born diseases. Still stay alert!

 

Arjen.

 

 

I think usually a tick has to be latched on for 24 hours for diseases to pass through. Obviously there are exceptions. These stronger medicines work pretty efficiently. Probably the reason why my dog as a puppy with a weak immune system (mange), never got a tick borne disease even though it lived with a dog for 6 months that did test positive to a tick borne disease and even gave me the disease. 

[meatboy]

there are many warnings in this pet section.

our first encounter or symptoms we found with our boy jan.2015 so we had a blood test done every thing was ok.except his platelate count was low,so he was on meds till april,then he was fine.

sept.he had an encounter with a 2mtr.snake so we had him blood tested,once again all ok.except his patelate count.

oct.platelate low,so the vet gave him doxy. sulfa,prednisolone lipocal.

oct.he finished the meds.but 2days later he had [5am] a nose bleed,got intouch with the vet he didnt want to come at all.

when we managed to find somewhere they said that antibionic and steriods should not have been given to him at the same time.that caused the bleeding.

this vets was very good but the place itself was way below standad.given an imizol inj.but no mention of a follow up inj.[A MUST]

after a blood test,lo and behold his platelate count was ok.[very strange]

by the 3nov.he was back to his old self.

the next vets we went to tried it on treble the price we had paid for a liver supplement.

now this is alarming,they done a blood test and said they would take it to a top lab.in bkk.

when we got the results we couldnt beleive what they told us,so the wife phoned this lab in bkk.and they told her forget about the test,

WHY because the blood had not been given to the lab for testing till 44hrs.after taken.

so we got another test done by first vet.this is the scam,he produced the test with a platelate count of 2,000 bloody hell.

when the wife told him the count 4weeks ago was 250,000 he left our house never to be seen again.

i did start the topic can we trust the blood test? the answer is no.

before the wife took him to khon kaen another 2 tests was done by a differnt vet.first one ok.but the second one gave a liver count

OF 10,000 yes that is correct.incopetance or dogdey machine that was the last time that place was vissited.[it did have a good name]

 

[wildewillie89]

5 hours ago, Arjen said:

I never heard before that a tick needs 24 hour to spread a disease. They start drinking with injecting some liquid (salimen??) in the body from the host. That is the most dangerous partfrom the process. Further, we use all kind of medicines against ticks on our dogs, I still find sometimes a tick. They are always very small, because they die before they grow big. When I find a tick they hardly move, (close to die is my thinking) And what I read is that a "close to die" tick is very likely to vomit into the host. 

 

Same as malaria, most tick born diseases are vector diseases. This means that when a contaminated mother tick produces eggs, the eggs (and new offspring) are already contaminated with the disease.

 

Anyway, we do not have many ticks, but we are very alert on tick born diseases.

 

Arjen.

Some diseases below 24 hours...I think the most well known ones like your Lyme's are 34-36 hours, otherwise little chance of the disease being transmitted. Also very important how you remove ticks, as if you grab them roughly they obviously vomit into the body, which obviously will increase likelihoods of diseases. 

Would be similar to Malaria as some tick diseases are from cousins of Malarial bacterias. Babesia for instance is a cousin of Malaria. Mahidol University believe Rickettsia and Babesiosis are the two ones to watch in the future that will mostly affect pet and human health. So your Rickettsia is your Orentia (Scrub Typhus), then you have your Ehrlichia (my village has it big), your Anaplasma (similar to Ehrlichia), Rickettsii (like Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever). Scrub Typhus is most common here, but there are increases in spotted fever groups diseases also. I got a shit case of Ehrlichiosis (basically a RMSF without the spots) from the in-laws dog. 

The problem is Thai doctors a lot of the time deny the existence of tick diseases unless you go see a specialist. Took me having to go and actually get the dogs blood tested for them to believe me. Before that they thought auto-immune, cancer, hiv, TB, as all have similar symptoms. Finally they said a tick disease with the bloods and clinical presentation.

As treatment is so important in the first 5 days, you have to be super careful and almost self-diagnose yourself until the Thai doctors get around to it lol. Which is not a bad thing, as the medical handbooks tell you to start on doxy before any positive bloods will come back anyway. 

[meatboy]

arjen is living with a lot of animals and HE AND HIS WIFE know what they are talking about.

the problem i see is" FARANG" try and stay well away.

the first time our boy went to a animal hospital that was recomended our neighbour took the wife,she had good service,wasnt ripped off with the cost,all in all we were very pleased,even when i went there next time.

he seemed someone we could trust and within 3weeks every thing was fine.then after a yr.and our boy was enjoying his life

[not deppressed] we took him for a check up only to find out he had left.since then the place had gone from 5star to 2.

so with any new or old medication CHECK IT OUT FIRST so you know exactly what you are being given.

 

[wildewillie89]

Should always research any medicine that is prescribed, whether from a vet or a doctor - especially in Thai as they use different drugs to back home a lot of the time. For example. one doctor prescribed a dose of a drug to our baby daughter that was a 2010 dosage (hadn't realised the dosage changed). I put the medicine in the bin anyway as any dosage is either banned or not used in farang countries. I then went back to my usual doctor and she said we did the right thing by putting it in the bin. 

But same with pets. I will only give half of what my old vet used to prescribe. The current vet knows I know what is going on and has asked my wife if i used to work in medicine before as I know a bit about different things (just research the problem/ask vet friends before I go in). So he will never give anything that he thinks the dog does not really need. 

In Thai if you show you have some idea of what you are talking about, usually the 'professionals' will respect you more as they know they cant bullshit you, plus they are also willing to learn themselves sometimes. I walk into vets/doctors with university research/journals even sometimes, or friends in the field back home on the phone lol. I will leave it with them, then they will look at the equivalent Thai research (if it exists, which is incredibly unlikely). Not once have they disputed anything I have brought forward yet.  

[wildewillie89]

4 hours ago, Arjen said:

Please read and re-read this. The informaton given here by Meatboy is very important and counts for many vets. We go to to two different vets. One wants to visit us for the yearly vaccinations, (we have over 25 animals, and it is close to impossible to bring then all to the vet) .

 

When it is a small problem, or even a big problem with a big wound, or a snake bite we visit him. When the problem is more complicated, or a blood test is needed we go to an other one, with more equipment. Thye know each other and they know we use them both. So far no problem....

 

Veterinarians are expansive here. Recently we had a dog with a wound, it needed to be closed with a wire and needle (stitching?)  Three stiches where needed. It costed 900 Baht. A few days later I had a big wound. It needed the same treatment. 12 Stitches where needed, and they gave local anaesthasia, what had to be repaeted several times (and these injections hurt) Costs where 510 Baht.

 

When your visit to a vet is not urgent, I want to advise to go to one of the vets we use (South of Thailand)

 

Arjen.

 

What yearly vaccinations? Non-core ones I am assuming? You don't actually core vaccinate the dogs every year do you? 



 

Edited June 28, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

A text from a vet hospital in Canada re tick diseases (well Lyme disease), and how the drugs Bravecto and Nexgard work in relation to tick borne disease being transmitted.

'We have excellent medications to give our pets now to ward off ticks and kill them before they have a chance to transmit Lyme disease, among other diseases they can carry. The most effective treatments we have are for DOGS only at this time, but there will be cat tick prevention in the not-too-distant future. The easiest and best products that we have at this time are called NEXGARD and BRAVECTO. These are simple chewable treats that will begin to kill ticks on your dog as soon as they start to take a blood meal, making it impossible for them to transmit the Lyme disease. NexGard is given once per month and Bravecto is given once every 3 months to protect your dog against ticks. There are also topical products like REVOLUTION that can help, but they are not labeled to kill the specific tick that is responsible for transmitting Lyme disease.  In addition there is a Lyme disease vaccination that is available and effective for our dogs to help to protect them against the disease.'



In terms of testing for diseases (mostly tick borne), my local vet has the technology to test for Heartworm, Lyme, Ehrlichia canis and Ehrlichia ewingii, Anaplasma phagocytophilum and Anaplasma platys...and can also send blood to a friend in Bangkok to test for Babesiosis, and one other bacteria that I cannot remember.

Any tests I am missing. I am curious about if there is a Leptospirosis test (haven't asked my vet yet). Anyone know? 

Do the full CBC and these tests once a year. Possibly thinking about pushing it to twice a year.   

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, Arjen said:

This feels as a rude attack.

 

Yes we vaccinate all our animals once a year. We do not do this for the animals, and not for ourself, but because stupid liability feelings from one country on this world.

Vaccination every year is not neccessary, but also not harmfull. So yes we do this.

 

As far as I know Lyme disease does (yet) not excist in Thailand.

 

Arjen.
 

Not a rude attack, just direct questioning with regards to the animals haha.

Liability feelings? What exactly are liability feelings?

Yearly vaccination is unnecessary and it is indeed potentially harmful. Increases possibilities to vaccine side effects and damage to cells which lead to cancer. Sarcoma in particular in relation to the rabies vaccine. World Small Animal Veterinary Association has already investigated Thailand's research and recommended them to change to 3 years. 
 

Lyme disease does exist in Thailand. Our vet has said he has had positive tests. Also various cancer specialists, rheumatologists, infectious specialists and even GPs in Khon Kaen University hospital have told me personally it exists (when I went through my tick disease). Doctors in Australia list Thailand as a country as most likely having it as people have gone their for holidays and come back and have been diagnosed with it.

[wildewillie89]

Just now, Arjen said:

Writing on my Telephone now. English is not my mother language. Sometimes difficult to find the correct words.

 

 

So this writing is probably even worse.. liability. I mean the habit from some people, special from one country in the world to sue everyone for things what go wrong. We need yearly certificates to proof our animals are protected. 

 

I never heard that yearly vaccinations are harmful. They are only not necessary. And even more. Even every three years is not necessary.

 

I do not live in Australia, but I live in Thailand. I do not care what doctors in other countries say about diseases in Thailand. 

 

For now there has not been a recorded case from Lyme 100% sure started in Thailand. But when you can proof this to me I have to change my opinion. (And that is no problem then)

 

Regards, Arjen.

It would be ignorant not to listen to doctors in other countries who specialise on particular diseases lol. Seeing as Australia also like to believe there is no Lyme disease, the doctors have to claim the exposure came from a different country. In many cases, the country that the patients had just traveled to was, guess what, Thailand. 

If you have never heard yearly vaccinations are harmful then you must be living in a cave. Like seriously! That is an astonishing claim from someone who has made judgements on the veterinary system. 

Read some of Dr. Ronald Schulz research, he the god of veterinary microbiology, immunology, virology, pathogenesis of infectious disease. All world bodies have used his research to change vaccinations from yearly to 3 yearly (due to the potential harm they can cause). He states that “The patient receives no benefit and may be placed at serious risk when an unnecessary vaccine is given. 

Living in Thailand and having a wife who is a Director of Public Health, I can safely say if you live by that thinking then you will not be well prepared to prevent diseases. The amount of under-reporting or no reporting that happens in this country would amaze you. 

[wildewillie89]

31 minutes ago, Arjen said:

Writing on my Telephone now. English is not my mother language. Sometimes difficult to find the correct words.

 

 

So this writing is probably even worse.. liability. I mean the habit from some people, special from one country in the world to sue everyone for things what go wrong. We need yearly certificates to proof our animals are protected. 

 

I never heard that yearly vaccinations are harmful. They are only not necessary. And even more. Even every three years is not necessary.

 

I do not live in Australia, but I live in Thailand. I do not care what doctors in other countries say about diseases in Thailand. 

 

For now there has not been a recorded case from Lyme 100% sure started in Thailand. But when you can proof this to me I have to change my opinion. (And that is no problem then)

 

Regards, Arjen.

Also you are aware people are regularly treated for Lyme disease in Thailand, yeah? When i was first diagnosed, they suspected a Ehrlichia and Lyme co-infection so treated me for Lyme as well (ended up with them just thinking Ehrlichia). Australia, is similar, there have been positive Lyme blood tests (sent to America for testing), but still the government says 'no recorded cases'.

Do you know why? Because to be recorded, you must actually find the physical tick carrying the bacteria. So if universities have been slack with their field work and don't collect the ticks they need to in the areas they need to, then of course it will not be 'official' as they cannot find the physical bacteria in the vast environment. As far I know, it has been 13 years since any report on tick borne diseases came out of a university in Thailand. 

Would really love it if someone could find a more recent study than that though and pass it on to me.

You can go by your 13 year old studies with tiny sample sizes, and I will go by the clinical, and positive blood tests for the disease as told not only personally from the relevant specialists in Thailand, but recorded cases in newspapers (tourists who visit Thai and get diagnosed - Amy Kennedy was the name of one from memory) and tv shows on Lyme disease with the relevant experts there ('Insight' being the name of one) (it is funny how other countries list Thai as having it, but Thai doesn't list themselves). Bit like how the W.H.O figures on Thai are always different from Thai figures.....Under-reporting or no reporting is very prevalent in Thailand!

[meatboy]

18 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

What yearly vaccinations? Non-core ones I am assuming? You don't actually core vaccinate the dogs every year do you? 



 

i am starting to wonder how long have you lived in thailand?its definately not like canada,thailand has thousand upon thousand of dogs running around covered in god knows what.so trying to count thailand as equal as other countries is way off the mark.

my dog is vaccinated every yr, against,distemper

                                                                     hepatitis.

                                                                    parainfluenza.

                                                                    parvovirus.

                                                                     lepotospirosis.

                                                                     caronavirus.

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, meatboy said:

i am starting to wonder how long have you lived in thailand?its definately not like canada,thailand has thousand upon thousand of dogs running around covered in god knows what.so trying to count thailand as equal as other countries is way off the mark.

my dog is vaccinated every yr, against,distemper

                                                                     hepatitis.

                                                                    parainfluenza.

                                                                    parvovirus.

                                                                     lepotospirosis.

                                                                     caronavirus.

I think you would find many of them are yearly non-core vaccinations. They have nothing to do with the conversation that was being had. I am referring to 3 yearly core vaccinations, I explicitly stated that in what was thought to be a 'rude attack'. That is why I was very direct in my questioning so there was no confusion. Clearly there still was confusion from you, and the other poster who took direct questioning as personal, rather than actually reading the words.

But I love the 'how long have you lived in Thailand' line of questioning. Why do TV posters always try to get personal and say this? My wife is a Director within the Ministry of Public Health. She is the one who has to enforce such programs on the country. The Ministry are also aware of they should be doing 3 yearly core. Fair to say I would probably have more of an idea than your average 'farang', who likes to think they know it all as they have 'lived here for so long'.

I am starting to wonder if anyone on this forum can actually read lol. How did you come up with  the conclusion im comparing Thailand to Canada or other countries? The Canadian vet quote was to explain how the drugs work, because clearly the other poster did not understand it takes many hours for ticks to transfer bacteria into human/animal.

Edited June 29, 2017 by wildewillie89

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, Arjen said:

Sorry, lost my interest.

 

I just replied on a topic about flee/tick prevention. 

 

I do not like the way how you "teach" me what I am doing wrong.

 

Good luck!

 

Arjen.

 

Begs the question why you were interested in the first place. When what was being said suited your preconceived ideas it was okay. As soon as it didn't, it is a sudden loss of interest...even when the issues effect the health of your animals and yourself. Amazing!

If they are core vaccines then you seriously need to do some research as you ARE harming your dog. If they are non-core then you should have read my direct questioning rather than thinking it was a 'rude attack'. See why questioning needs to be direct sometimes? lol. 

Edited June 29, 2017 by wildewillie89