My unlucky chase for the conversion from TV to Non-O (retirement)

[Ubonquest]

As stated previously, I wasn't issued the non-o in Savannakhet, so with the TV, I flew to Bangkok, went to CW. With 20 minutes left to lunch break, I was called in. The IO crunched some numbers and I was approved. I signed the documents and she started putting the information in the computer then suddenly she realized that my address was Ubon. She apologized profusely, saying that I had to go apply there.

Sirindhorn was more difficult. Immigration will send applications to KhonKaen for approval. I was using the combination method. The IO I was dealing with had never seen the combination way, she said. The difficulty was that my bank book showed some cash amount deposited, when I first opened the account. Some amount was withdrawals from ATM. They wanted proof of that. Also, they wanted documents to show the source of my monthly income stating in the Affidavit. That was my SS payment plus Pension. I couldn't provide that.

My options are: 1. Going back to CW, either using a friend's or a hotel's address. My thinking is that, since I am on a TV, I can move around, having different addresses. Can I use a hotel's address where I stay a couple of days when I am in Bangkok?

 

2. Going to Penang. I read somewhere in here that it was not difficult to obtain a non-o there. Could anyone confirm?

 

3. Going to Vientiane with the medical paper and police clearance. This is my last option. Don't want to deal with the extra paperwork.

 

4. Apply in the US. I will be there in September. Do Embassy and Honorary consulates issue Non-o (not non-O.A), 90 days visa? According to the IO in Sirindhorn, they do. What are the requirements for getting it?

 

Thanks

[idman]

No Honorary Thai Consulate in the U.S. will issue a Non Immigrant O Multi Visa anymore. That policy was changed in August 2016. I know because I had my request denied at the Portland Honorary Consulate today. If I want to extend and get the one year multi I was told to apply at Thai Immigration in my case in Chiang Mai.

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[Rhys]

Did my non-O visa.... in...Penang...all went fine... just have the proper paperwork... I had no issue... now the extension of Stay based on marriage is taking a long time to process.

 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Rhys

[ubonjoe]

It might be best to try and get it done a Sirindhorn. It seems to be something they are just now learning to do. FYI the application will be sent to Division 4 headquarters in Korat not Khoen Kaen for approval.

In Bangkok you have to wait 15 days for the application to be approved because it requires a higher ranking officer to approve it.

You mention the combination method now. Did you show your bank book with the income affidavit when you applied at Savannakhet. A person got a non-o there on the same day your got rejected. They wanted his bank book along with his letter from a embassy that showed over 65k baht income.

If you income is less than 65k baht anywhere you apply will want both to show a total of 800k baht. Penang will certainly want both.

You could possibley get a single entry non-o in the states from one of the honorary consulates. The embassy and the 3 official consulates will not do one.

[Ubonquest]

Yes, in Savannakhet, copies of letter from bank and bank book pages and embassy income affidavit were included in the submitted package. I had the bank book with me in case they wanted to see it. Maybe I should go back and try again since I have the re-entry permit with me.

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Ubonquest said:

Yes, in Savannakhet, copies of letter from bank and bank book pages and embassy income affidavit were included in the submitted package. I had the bank book with me in case they wanted to see it. Maybe I should go back and try again since I have the re-entry permit with me.

I don't really understand why they refused the visa in Savannakhet. Perhaps it was somebody with no experience with accepting an application for a non-o. From their comment about it only being possible in your home is seems they thought you were applying for a OA visa.

Another try there might be worth the time and expense to do it.

[ratcatcher]

9 hours ago, Rhys said:

Did my non-O visa.... in...Penang...all went fine... just have the proper paperwork... I had no issue... now the extension of Stay based on marriage is taking a long time to process.

 

off topic but,

"...now the extension of Stay based on marriage is taking a long time to process."

Are you referring to the amount of time spent with the IO or the 30 day "under consideration" time?

Extension of stay based on "Thai wife" normally does take a bit longer due to the additional paperwork required, but providing you have made sure all your documents, photos required are in order, signed etc, there is normally not a problem. Variations definitely occur between different offices.

[Ubonquest]

You might be right about the guy that accepted the applications at the window. He could be a new trainee because there was another guy standing next to him, not saying a thing, just observing. After handing him the application, he flipped through the pages and asked "this is for Retirement, right? I said yes" and then he said that I had to get it from the US, I thought too, that he had mistaken with the OA, so I said that I wanted the non-o based on retirement, not the OA.
Well, Ubonjoe, thanks for the help, much appreciated.

[OmarZaid]

Just got my non-O for marriage -- had no problems as long as the grid is greased (5G) and supporting docs are in order, especially family pics at home, marriage cert, etc. US Embassy requires no proof of income, but you are liable for the amount decreed on the affidavit they were happy to see that document most of all -- no one asked me for a bank book but that will be produced next month when I apply for 1 year extension (another 5G) (same office of district in which I live). Didn't even have to leave the country (entered on tourist via from Japan 5 months ago). Local officers have a great deal of discretion when treated respectfully and with juice. Noted a fellow from Switz reporting for 90d requirement, wife in tow, same office (2G grease), was in and out in 15 minutes. His wife reported same avenue of approach to my wife.  Another chap from the USA with proud wife in tow who objected to grease  was politely fobbed off from one officer to the next, each lower in rank and with increasing demands and complications. Watched the whole process for others while chief officer attended with great detail to all my paperwork. I simply had to sign my name 2 dozen times. Took two visits, about 1 hour each, first for extension and then another for Non-O application. We dressed like Sunday-go-to temple folks and were completely compliant and respectful. = success.

[faraday]

5k for a marriage 'visa'.....is this what is expected?

[Suradit69]

13 hours ago, idman said:

If I want to extend and get the one year multi I was told to apply at Thai Immigration in my case in Chiang Mai.

"the one year multi"

Are you referring to a multi re-entry permit?

 

If you entered the country on a non-imm O you could apply for a one year extension of stay based on retirement, not a visa, which allows you to stay in the country but requiring you to report to immigrations any time you stay in the country for 90 continuous days,. To be able to exit and return to the country during that year you'd need the re-entry permit to keep your extension valid. You wouldn't really need the re-entry permit unless and until you plan to travel out of the country.

[Suradit69]

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

Took two visits, about 1 hour each, first for extension and then another for Non-O application

If you were converting to a non-imm O entry, you'd have to do that before applying for the extension of stay based on marriage or retirement.  If you or any of the other people involved in your complicated saga of events had all the required documents and genuinely qualified for the conversion and extension, there should be no reason to be handing out money on the scale you mention.

 

1 hour ago, OmarZaid said:

Noted a fellow from Switz reporting for 90d requirement, wife in tow, same office (2G grease), was in and out in 15 minutes.

Presumably your "2G" means 2000 baht. Paying anything, much less that amount, to do a 90 day report is beyond ridiculous.

 

 

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Suradit69

[JackThompson]

4 hours ago, faraday said:

5k for a marriage 'visa'.....is this what is expected?

Thai Immigration Offices are all different.  To a lesser or greater extent, there are "two tracks" to getting things done - "by the book" track and "greased" track.  In some offices, the greased-track is completely unnecessary.  In others, it is the ONLY way you will get certain services rendered.  

Many people use "agents" to get the greased-track, but this can triple the cost of the grease.  Much better to pay directly, as this fellow is, than also cover an agent's fee. 

 

But better yet, to live somewhere none of this is necessary for the particular service you need.  Choosing a place to live in Thailand can include this consideration.

 

3 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Presumably your "2G" means 2000 baht. Paying anything, much less that amount, to do a 90 day report is beyond ridiculous.

In most offices, yes.  Where this fellow is, it might save hours of his time.  I can only guess this is the reason.

[kokopelli]

Why use the combination method of proof of income when you could get a letter from US Embassy based on your SS and Pension? Makes it much easier.

Edited May 10, 2017 by kokopelli

[OmarZaid]

16 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

If you were converting to a non-imm O entry, you'd have to do that before applying for the extension of stay based on marriage or retirement.  If you or any of the other people involved in your complicated saga of events had all the required documents and genuinely qualified for the conversion and extension, there should be no reason to be handing out money on the scale you mention.

 

Presumably your "2G" means 2000 baht. Paying anything, much less that amount, to do a 90 day report is beyond ridiculous.

 

 

 

I am telling you that I converted without leaving the country.  Local officers have the discretion to do this. I am living witness. As for the grease cost, compare that to leaving the country ... My wife has her ears to the ground, in this office, that's what it takes to get VIP skids. 2Gs is only USD $50 Mr. 'Charlie', a small price to pay t assure equanimity on both sides of the divide. 

[westsail]

Since you will be back in the U.S. in Sept. why not get your Non-immigrant O-A visa from the embassy there.  That all I've ever done (3x). You mail the application, passport, and supporting doc to them along with a prepaid express mail return envelope and you get everything back in a week or two.  Never had any problem.  You don't even need to have money in Thailand.  Each time I send them a letter (not a statement) signed by someone at Fidelity stating the balance in my IRA.  They don't care where your police report is from as long as it is current.  And you get a free 12 month extension if you re-enter Thailand from the U.S. within 12 months of the 1st entry date.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, OmarZaid said:

I am telling you that I converted without leaving the country.  Local officers have the discretion to do this.

Many people do a conversion at immigrations, that's not anything new, but you said you did the extension first and then the conversion. Obviously you would have to do the conversion to a non imm O entry before applying for the extension.

 

You seem confused about what you did and are probably exaggerating about much of what you describe that others were doing.

 

19 hours ago, OmarZaid said:

Took two visits, about 1 hour each, first for extension and then another for Non-O application.

 

[Suradit69]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I can only guess this is the reason.

Yes and whenever someone concocts a story about their fabulous adventures in Thailand there are those who immediately record what they say as fact. "Guess" is the key word and a naive willingness to believe everything anyone posts on TV is also a component.

 

I'm well aware that there are those who pay extra either directly to an IO or via an agent to get things done, especially when they fall short in terms of qualifications or patience or have no clue what's going on. I hope you are aware that some people exaggerate or fabricate their experiences when posting on TV (and elsewhere) because they seek attention in their dreary lives.

 

How often have you been in an immigration office and been able to take note of the nationality, the purpose for visit and the amount handed over as a bribe for numerous other people who miraculously pitch up while you are there? Even in offices where such things do happen, it doesn't happen so openly that any casual passerby has immediate access to all the details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2017 by Suradit69

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes and whenever someone concocts a story about their fabulous adventures in Thailand there are those who immediately record what they say as fact. "Guess" is the key word and a naive willingness to believe everything anyone posts on TV is also a component.

 

I'm well aware that there are those who pay extra either directly to an IO or via an agent to get things done, especially when they fall short in terms of qualifications or patience or have no clue what's going on. I hope you are aware that some people exaggerate or fabricate their experiences when posting on TV (and elsewhere) because they seek attention in their dreary lives.

 

Yes, there are ways to skirt requirements with agents - but that is not their only function.    Perhaps you missed this thread?

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/968065-how-to-get-a-change-of-visa-if-pattaya-immigration-dont-give-you-one/

Note all the people who posted who had to use agents to get their conversion.  It's standard practice in cases where an office has put a particular service in the "pay up or go away" category.  What services at what offices fall into this category vary by office.  Pattaya/Jomtinen is better than most, but not on this service. 

 

See the 'start at 4AM' Queues at Chang Mai - and the "pay to get 5-min service" agent-system which is The Norm there.  It's official policy there.

 

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

How often have you been in an immigration office and been able to take note of the nationality, the purpose for visit and the amount handed over as a bribe for numerous other people who miraculously pitch up while you are there? Even in offices where such things do happen, it doesn't happen so openly that any casual passerby has immediate access to all the details.

The OP claimed to see one other person paying, as he did, for fast-service, and one other refusing.  That is not at all beyond possibility.  What he describes is exactly what many have seen / reported, and heard from acquaintances outside this forum who report similar "systems" in place for their particular visa-needs.

[OmarZaid]

2 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

Yes and whenever someone concocts a story about their fabulous adventures in Thailand there are those who immediately record what they say as fact. "Guess" is the key word and a naive willingness to believe everything anyone posts on TV is also a component.

 

I'm well aware that there are those who pay extra either directly to an IO or via an agent to get things done, especially when they fall short in terms of qualifications or patience or have no clue what's going on. I hope you are aware that some people exaggerate or fabricate their experiences when posting on TV (and elsewhere) because they seek attention in their dreary lives.

 

How often have you been in an immigration office and been able to take note of the nationality, the purpose for visit and the amount handed over as a bribe for numerous other people who miraculously pitch up while you are there? Even in offices where such things do happen, it doesn't happen so openly that any casual passerby has immediate access to all the details.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I take exception to being called a liar sir!  What I related is the truth of the matter and is common human practice for non-idealists. Any astute observer can notice exchanges that commonly go unnoticed, especially trained professionals. I happen to be a doctor, in which profession the examination of details is required to diagnose the problem and find a remedy.

[Ubonquest]

Could anyone comment on using a Hotel's address to apply for a non-o and an extension based on retirement. Thank you.

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