Greeks join nationwide strike over new round of bailout reforms

[webfact]

Greeks join nationwide strike over new round of bailout reforms

 

A man crosses railway tracks on his bicycle during a 24-hour general strike in Athens, Greece, May 17, 2017. REUTERS/Costas Baltas

 

ATHENS (Reuters) - Greek ferry, bus and train services were disrupted and civil servants and doctors stopped work in nationwide walkout on Wednesday, as lawmakers debated austerity measures that lenders want the indebted country to implement.

 

The protest strike was called by the main public and private sector unions a day before parliament was due to vote on reforms that would unlock the next tranche of funds from an 86-billion-euro bailout.

 

Greece agreed this month on further spending cuts to end a logjam in talks with lenders. Once the new measures are approved by Greek lawmakers, Euro zone finance ministers will then discuss the disbursement of loans at the next scheduled Eurogroup meeting on May 22.

 

Athens needs the funds urgently to repay 7.5 billion euro (6.33 billion pounds) in debt maturing in July.

 

As part of the reforms, Athens has promised to cut pensions in 2019 and cut the tax-free threshold in 2020 to produce savings worth 2 percent of gross domestic product.

 

If it outperforms those targets, it will activate a set of measures offsetting the impact of additional austerity, including mainly lowering taxes.

 

Greece has needed three multi-billion bailouts since 2010 and additional spending cuts are a contentious issue for Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras.

 

"We have been fooled. We believed in their promises," said Nikos Moustakas, 71, a retired mechanic who worked for 38 years. 

"They have lost me as a voter," he said.

 

Tsipras was first elected in 2015 on a pledge to end austerity but was forced to relent months later in order to agree a new bailout package to stave off bankruptcy.

 

Tsipras is trailing in opinion polls, but his governing coalition has a small, but firm majority in the 300-member parliament.

 

(Reporting by Michele Kambas and George Georgiopoulos; Editing by Simon Cameron-Moore)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-17

[biggles45]

"Athens needs the funds urgently to repay 7.5 billion euro (6.33 billion pounds) in debt maturing"

 

Does this mean that they havn't repaid the previous EU bail out loans ? Would you lend them money ? 

[ilostmypassword]

33 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

"Athens needs the funds urgently to repay 7.5 billion euro (6.33 billion pounds) in debt maturing"

 

Does this mean that they havn't repaid the previous EU bail out loans ? Would you lend them money ? 

No one should lend Greece money. Not now and not when they entered the Eurozone, either. But some very large banks foolishly did. And when the crash came, they, not Greece, were bailed out by some wealthy Eurozone nations.  When banks lend foolishly, they deserve the consequences. Greece should have been allowed to exit the Eurozone. As it is, now they are,in effect, repaying the wealthy nations that bailed out their banks.

[soalbundy]

That will help the GDP numbers

[champers]

Looks like a good endorsement for Brexit. 

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, champers said:

Looks like a good endorsement for Brexit. 

Actually not.  The UK wisely chose not to adopt the Euro.

[sanukjim]

34 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually not.  The UK wisely chose not to adopt the Euro.

Even though they kept the Pound they would still be on the hook along with the rest of the EU to keep pouring money into Greece.

[sanukjim]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

No one should lend Greece money. Not now and not when they entered the Eurozone, either. But some very large banks foolishly did. And when the crash came, they, not Greece, were bailed out by some wealthy Eurozone nations.  When banks lend foolishly, they deserve the consequences. Greece should have been allowed to exit the Eurozone. As it is, now they are,in effect, repaying the wealthy nations that bailed out their banks.

The money was loaned to both the banks and the Greek government with the stipulations that the Greek government reform many of their costly, extremely liberal programs.The Greeks just want the EU to keep giving them money while not changing their life style .Kind of sounds like the liberal democrats in The US. Gimme,gimme,gimme

[Krataiboy]

53 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually not.  The UK wisely chose not to adopt the Euro.

And now we have chosen, belatedly but equally wisely, to jump the sinking ship before it goes down with all hands and only Germans in the lifeboats.

[elgordo38]

22 hours ago, webfact said:

ATHENS (Reuters) - Greek ferry, bus and train services were disrupted and civil servants and doctors stopped work in nationwide walkout on Wednesday, as lawmakers debated austerity measures that lenders want the indebted country to implement.

 

Yes the lenders want their last pound of flesh over and over again there will be no end to your misery. Even if you go to the polls and elect another government they will cave in like the last one did. They will pick you clean. Picture yourselves strapped to a bed with plastic hoses running out from cuts in your body. You are of course bound so you do not get up and leave. They want their 10 pieces of silver. There is no one on deck to cast them out. I also see you are now part of the Chinese Silk Road program. Indenturehood at best. Slavery at worst. 

[thaibeachlovers]

Strike away. The gravy train is over and it's time to join the real world.

 

BTW, the piper plays the tune, not the audience.

 

They should have cut Greece loose at the beginning. They faked the books to join- self inflicted injury.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, biggles45 said:

"Athens needs the funds urgently to repay 7.5 billion euro (6.33 billion pounds) in debt maturing"

 

Does this mean that they havn't repaid the previous EU bail out loans ? Would you lend them money ? 

No It does not means that.

it means that now it has an other payment to make, they do not have the funds to do it, and the must borrow the funds

A scheme of revolving debt..

It is a game of musical chairs  benefiting only " the money changers"  Remember the money changers and christian folklore?

Robbing Pete to pay Paul.

The Kleptocrats borrowed money to engage in protects that enriched them ,Projects that were grossly  over inflated to cover kickbacks.

The lenders were aware of the corruption since there were several cases prosecuted but few if any of the principle players were punished.  (See Siemens, Goldman Sachs etc.)

The Fat Cat Greek Kleptocrats  are living in Park Av. and London,spending their ill gotten gains,  and the poor pensioners in Greece  are left to pay the Money changers.Mean time,  the Poor pensioners in Europe see their pension funds take haircuts to fund the Kleptocrats.

Can you spell Odious  debt?

This is not a bail out of Greece. Greece has little chance of getting out of this revolving debt in the foreseeable future . This is a bail out of the lenders.

And the beat goes on......

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

^^ It's no wonder that I want to squeeze the rich till they cry for mercy and then squeeze them some more.

 

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

No one should lend Greece money. Not now and not when they entered the Eurozone, either. But some very large banks foolishly did. And when the crash came, they, not Greece, were bailed out by some wealthy Eurozone nations.  When banks lend foolishly, they deserve the consequences. Greece should have been allowed to exit the Eurozone. As it is, now they are,in effect, repaying the wealthy nations that bailed out their banks.

 

Greece and one or two others should never have been allowed to enter the Eurozone and adopt the Euro. They didn't really meet the financial requirements. But they lied and the auditing big accountancy firms either colluded in that lie or were incompetent. Then certain big banks, I'd suggest possible with the blessings of their governments, lent money to the Greeks. 

 

Once things go sour, it's the EU taxpayers, in some countries more than others, who pick up the tab. Certain governments won't let certain banks fail or suffer badly; and those charged with ensuring the soundness of the initial entrance criteria seem never to be held accountable.

 

This untouchability of banks, the big international accountancy firms, and their own wealth increase is something capitalism seems to regard as sacrosanct.

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

^^ It's no wonder that I want to squeeze the rich till they cry for mercy and then squeeze them some more.

 

Oh, and to add insult to injury . The Kleptocrats are using the funds of the ill gotten gains to buy Greece for pennies on the dollar.

[Baerboxer]

2 minutes ago, sirineou said:

Oh, and to add insult to injury . The Kleptocrats are using the funds of the ill gotten gains to buy Greece for pennies on the dollar.

 

Of course. But it was never going to be a sustainable economic environment in which tax evasion, early retirement with high pensions, low productivity and investment, and lack on innovation were accepted as norms.

 

Greece, for whatever reason, saw the Euro as offering some benefit to their ill fated model. It was in fact a "Trojan horse" that has allowed certain institutions and governments to get Greece on the rack. Ironic.

[hawker9000]

3 hours ago, sanukjim said:

The money was loaned to both the banks and the Greek government with the stipulations that the Greek government reform many of their costly, extremely liberal programs.The Greeks just want the EU to keep giving them money while not changing their life style .Kind of sounds like the liberal democrats in The US. Gimme,gimme,gimme

Socialism's modus operandi.

[ELVIS123456]

Solution - easy peasy.  Force Greece to sell a few of its islands.

They have many uninhabited (or mostly) islands that billionaires would buy if they had the opportunity.  

Like most posters I find it unacceptable that they are continuing to get away with their socialist liberal agenda.

Main reason they were 'invited' in was that Germany knew it would lower the Euro - their exports will crash if the Euro gets too high.

 

[YetAnother]

Sacrifice?

me ?

no way ,that's for other people

[ilostmypassword]

4 hours ago, sanukjim said:

The money was loaned to both the banks and the Greek government with the stipulations that the Greek government reform many of their costly, extremely liberal programs.The Greeks just want the EU to keep giving them money while not changing their life style .Kind of sounds like the liberal democrats in The US. Gimme,gimme,gimme

The money that was loaned to the Greeks was to pay the debts the EU incurred for bailing out the banks. God forbid banks that lend foolishly should be made to suffer for it.

[hawker9000]

The money that was loaned to the Greeks was to pay the debts the EU incurred for bailing out the banks. God forbid banks that lend foolishly should be made to suffer for it.

If banks lend "foolishly" they're condemned for it. If they insist on the creditworthiness of needful borrowers, they're condemned for that, too. Taking gratuitous swipes at archvillain bankers is a game for children. God forbid borrowers should be made to pay their debts.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Socialism's modus operandi.

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

The Ladybird Book of Socialism.

[hawker9000]

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.

[Wake Up]

In Rome and suppose to take Greek ferry to Greece today which was cancelled. Greece is broke and many unemployed yet those with jobs desire to strike. This is a global world and life is not fair so strike if you wish but no loan and your country defaults into bankruptcy and third world status. It can get worse and no one is entitled to government benefits that the governments cannot afford. 

[Wake Up]

Blaming the rich is always easy. Blaming others is always easy. Just don't spend more than you make and save a little money and quit blaming others. But people feel entitled to benefits and can't save any money because ......

when did grown ups cease to exist  in the world. 

[ilostmypassword]

6 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.

Yes, northern Europe is an economic disaster zone. With a healthy thriving middle class.  

[sirineou]

On 5/18/2017 at 9:49 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Please don't confuse socialism with greed. While some so called socialists want to take rich people's money to spend on welfare for the lazy, that is not socialism. In a socialist society, people work for a decent life, but the rich pay more to equalise society.

What they had in Greece was not socialism  but Clientelism 

cli·en·tel·ism

ˌklīənˈtelˌizəm,ˌklē-/

noun

a social order that depends upon relations of patronage; in particular, a political approach that emphasizes or exploits such relations.

 

A difficult political concept to  understand unless one has being subject to it. And once a country goes down that road , difficult to get out until the predictable result. Argentina was an other country that went down that road with similar outcomes. 

In such a system supporters of a political party , usually  a dynastic party, are rewarded with favors should their party win. The dynasties are dependent   dispensing these "favors" for maintaining their power, and the opposition promising greater favors to dislodge the party in power and assume power.

A Vicious  Cycle  with a snowballing result.

This Political football was played by three dynastic political families ,Papandreou, Karamanlis and Mitsotakis 

This situation was amplified by the cold war . Communism's march toward the Mediterranean    was halted at Greece's northern boarder of  Albania,Yugoslavia and Bulgaria ,  and Greece became a political football in the game between the East and west.

Trow in the stew a Monarchy, deposition, and a military Junta , and here we are. 

 

  

[JAG]

What they had in Greece was not socialism  but Clientelism 
cli·en·tel·ism
ˌklīənˈtelˌizəm,ˌklē-/
noun
a social order that depends upon relations of patronage; in particular, a political approach that emphasizes or exploits such relations.
 
A difficult political concept to  understand unless one has being subject to it. And once a country goes down that road , difficult to get out until the predictable result. Argentina was an other country that went down that road with similar outcomes. 
In such a system supporters of a political party , usually  a dynastic party, are rewarded with favors should their party win. The dynasties are dependent   dispensing these "favors" for maintaining their power, and the opposition promising greater favors to dislodge the party in power and assume power.
A Vicious  Cycle  with a snowballing result.
This Political football was played by three dynastic political families ,Papandreou, Karamanlis and Mitsotakis 
This situation was amplified by the cold war . Communism's march toward the Mediterranean    was halted at Greece's northern boarder of  Albania,Yugoslavia and Bulgaria ,  and Greece became a political football in the game between the East and west.
Trow in the stew a Monarchy, deposition, and a military Junta , and here we are. 
 
  

A lot of what you say rings a bell, in fact it sounds like wake up time in an alarm clock factory!

Can't put my finger on just where at the moment...

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, hawker9000 said:

Please don't confuse socialism with common sense. In a socialist society, people work as little as possible for as much as they can get away with, and the "rich" are the elites with the unfettered power of the state to take whatever they want from whoever has anything left whenever they need a new mercedes or dacha. Time-tested and proven an abject failure every time.

Have you ever lived in a real socialist environment? I have and it works. Everybody worked.

 

People confuse real socialism with the bastardised versions adopted by countries like Britain.