Do you think Trump will be impeached or forced to resign?

[CaptHaddock]

There is something that I find interesting about Trump which doesn't draw much comment.  When Trump says things like this latest false accusation against Pres. Obama, he knows that it is is not true, but he is not simply lying, because his intention is to make it true by force of his personality.  This is the worldview that is uniquely that of psychopaths and which leaves normal people at a huge disadvantage, because they can't imagine how anyone can think like this.  Trump does not experience a world full of both truths and falsehoods.  He inhabits a world only of enemies and dupes.  His perpetual goal is to defeat his enemies by coercing the dupes into his own worldview via force of personality.  Therefore, the extent to which his falsehoods gain currency is a pure measure of his own potency and nothing else.

 

It's like listening to real poker players talk about playing poker.  They never talk about the cards, because in the long run the cards don't matter.

 

The goto guy for understanding the peculiar and peculiarly vile personality of Trump is Tony Schwartz, who wrote Trump's book during the course of which he spent every day with Trump fro eighteen months.  Schwartz appears on US news programs from time to time.

 

One corollary of the psychopathic mindset of Trump is that in his view he is the only person.  There is no one else.  Schwartz pointed out that during their eighteen months together Trump never got together with a friend, because he had no friends.  Schwartz never heard the name of Ivanka or any of Trump's other children mentioned.  Certainly he never had lunch with any of them, for instance.

 

Worth looking up interviews with Schwartz on youtube.  Trump is at once fascinating and repugnant in the manner of a reptile.

[Opl]

Trump seizes any opportunity to rewrite History  - turns every issue into self- praised urbi et orbi message 

 

 

[Meljames]

Seems like when he's giving interviews these days he's really low energy almost mumbling.....either he's wearing down or he's  medicated.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Meljames said:

Seems like when he's giving interviews these days he's really low energy almost mumbling.....either he's wearing down or he's  medicated.

I did notice he seems to be aging faster recently. That happens with most presidents but given that he started as rather a dotard ... this isn't going to be pretty.

[Meljames]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

this isn't going to be pretty.

 

Schadenfreude

[Berkshire]

8 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

There is something that I find interesting about Trump which doesn't draw much comment.  When Trump says things like this latest false accusation against Pres. Obama, he knows that it is is not true, but he is not simply lying, because his intention is to make it true by force of his personality.  This is the worldview that is uniquely that of psychopaths and which leaves normal people at a huge disadvantage, because they can't imagine how anyone can think like this.  Trump does not experience a world full of both truths and falsehoods.  He inhabits a world only of enemies and dupes.  His perpetual goal is to defeat his enemies by coercing the dupes into his own worldview via force of personality.  Therefore, the extent to which his falsehoods gain currency is a pure measure of his own potency and nothing else.

 

Yes, this pretty much explains Trump supporters.  A bunch of dupes.  But it takes a lot to be duped by such an obvious doofus and second-rate conman.  There are those who obviously have a lot to gain by supporting Trump (e.g., GOP politicians).  But what about the rest?  How can people support a "soulless coward" and pathological liar when they have nothing personally to gain?  A new level of stupidity I suppose.    

[mogandave]

Yes, this pretty much explains Trump supporters.  A bunch of dupes.  But it takes a lot to be duped by such an obvious doofus and second-rate conman.  There are those who obviously have a lot to gain by supporting Trump (e.g., GOP politicians).  But what about the rest?  How can people support a "soulless coward" and pathological liar when they have nothing personally to gain?  A new level of stupidity I suppose.    

Don’t forget, a lot of people care nothing about the country or the world go that matter, as long as they get a tax -cut.

[Thakkar]

20 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Yes, this pretty much explains Trump supporters.  A bunch of dupes.  But it takes a lot to be duped by such an obvious doofus and second-rate conman.  There are those who obviously have a lot to gain by supporting Trump (e.g., GOP politicians).  But what about the rest?  How can people support a "soulless coward" and pathological liar when they have nothing personally to gain?  A new level of stupidity I suppose.    

It’s not as innocent as them just being dupes.

 

As a non white person who grew up around racists, I *felt* I knew why Trump won. But everyone kept telling me I was wrong—that it was really economic anxiety. Well, turns out my spidey sense was right:

 

On  July 3 researchers released the most comprehensive survey data yet aimed at understanding what actually went down in Election 2016. The group includes academics but also right-leaning outlets such The Heritage Foundation and left-leaners like the Center for American Progress.

 

They [voters] did flock to Trump. But the reason they did so in enough numbers for Trump to win wasn’t anxiety about the economy. It was anxiety about Mexicans, Muslims and blacks.

 

Here’s how they put it in academese: “What stands out most, however, is the attitudes that became more strongly related to the vote in 2016: attitudes about immigration, feelings toward black people, and feelings toward Muslims,” writes George Washington University professor John Sides. He notes that the media focused on less-educated whites, but negative racial attitudes fueled by Trump were a big motivator for college-educated whites, too.

 

A substantial share of Trump voters “appeared to embrace a conception of American identity predicated on birthplace and especially Christian faith,” Sides found.

 

It makes sense, considering the candidate himself was maligning Mexicans and openly calling for banning Muslims.

 

“I’ve got three words for you: scared white people,” 

“I get it, nobody wants to be told what they don’t want to hear,” Parker says. “People want there to be a more innocent explanation, about jobs or trade or something. But sorry, everyone — it just isn’t there. My plea to people is we ought to start focusing on what’s real.”

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/uw-professor-got-it-right-on-trump-so-why-is-he-being-ignored/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_left_1.1

 

[Opl]

"Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president. And so it will not suffice to say that Trump is a white man like all the others who rose to become president. He must be called by his rightful honorific—America’s first white president..It’s Impossible to Imagine Trump Without the Force of Whiteness”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/

"The first white president in American history is also the most dangerous president—and he is made more dangerous still by the fact that those charged with analyzing him cannot name his essential nature, because they too are implicated in it."

Edited October 17, 2017 by Opl

[Jingthing]

Get.

Him.

Out.

This isn't a joke anymore.

 

 

[mrdome]

And then there is this:

 

Name after name after name... like Cosby, like Harvey Weinstein.

 

" Donald held back Ivana's arms and began to pull out fistfuls of hair from her scalp, as if to mirror the pain he felt from his own operation. He tore off her clothes and unzipped his pants. ..."

 

http://www.npr.org/2016/10/13/497799354/a-list-of-donald-trumps-accusers-of-inappropriate-sexual-conduct

[Thakkar]

37 minutes ago, Opl said:

"Trump truly is something new—the first president whose entire political existence hinges on the fact of a black president. And so it will not suffice to say that Trump is a white man like all the others who rose to become president. He must be called by his rightful honorific—America’s first white president..It’s Impossible to Imagine Trump Without the Force of Whiteness”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/

"The first white president in American history is also the most dangerous president—and he is made more dangerous still by the fact that those charged with analyzing him cannot name his essential nature, because they too are implicated in it."

 

Thanks. Great writing, and an incredible piece of journalism.

 

I highly recommend others read it.

[Ruffian Dick]

54 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

Thanks. Great writing, and an incredible piece of journalism.

 

I highly recommend others read it.

Going a step further, can we blame Obama for Trump too?

I mean that, seeing a black man in the White House is 100% guaranteed to turn most racist Americans sideways, making the election of a reactionary successor almost inevitable.

[Jingthing]

Sadly, John McCain is now very, very ill.

So this speech can be seen as historic.

A very moving total take down of the isolationist fascism of the trumpist movement, without even mentioning trump or fascism. 

 

 

[lannarebirth]

2 hours ago, Ruffian Dick said:

Going a step further, can we blame Obama for Trump too?

I mean that, seeing a black man in the White House is 100% guaranteed to turn most racist Americans sideways, making the election of a reactionary successor almost inevitable.

 

And whomever succeeds Trump of whichever party will be the worst yet and hopefully will mark the bottom of the American slide. I'm not sure I'd blame preceding presidents for the election of their successors. I think it has more to do with the pervasive civic ignorance of the American people and their readiness to be co-opted by divisive political agendas which are universally self serving of the party's monetary benefactors.

 

Just one of many many examples:

 

http://theweek.com/articles/729324/why-america-coming-apart-seams

Edited October 17, 2017 by lannarebirth

[CaptHaddock]

6 hours ago, Thakkar said:

It’s not as innocent as them just being dupes.

 

As a non white person who grew up around racists, I *felt* I knew why Trump won. But everyone kept telling me I was wrong—that it was really economic anxiety. Well, turns out my spidey sense was right:

 

On  July 3 researchers released the most comprehensive survey data yet aimed at understanding what actually went down in Election 2016. The group includes academics but also right-leaning outlets such The Heritage Foundation and left-leaners like the Center for American Progress.

 

They [voters] did flock to Trump. But the reason they did so in enough numbers for Trump to win wasn’t anxiety about the economy. It was anxiety about Mexicans, Muslims and blacks.

 

Here’s how they put it in academese: “What stands out most, however, is the attitudes that became more strongly related to the vote in 2016: attitudes about immigration, feelings toward black people, and feelings toward Muslims,” writes George Washington University professor John Sides. He notes that the media focused on less-educated whites, but negative racial attitudes fueled by Trump were a big motivator for college-educated whites, too.

 

A substantial share of Trump voters “appeared to embrace a conception of American identity predicated on birthplace and especially Christian faith,” Sides found.

 

It makes sense, considering the candidate himself was maligning Mexicans and openly calling for banning Muslims.

 

“I’ve got three words for you: scared white people,” 

“I get it, nobody wants to be told what they don’t want to hear,” Parker says. “People want there to be a more innocent explanation, about jobs or trade or something. But sorry, everyone — it just isn’t there. My plea to people is we ought to start focusing on what’s real.”

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/uw-professor-got-it-right-on-trump-so-why-is-he-being-ignored/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_left_1.1

 

Racism is the key to understanding American history and much of American politics.  There is deep and persistent racism.  However, racism is not a constant in American life.  For example, during WWII the war in the Pacific was characterized by deep race hatred against the Japanese.  For instance, some units would have a motto like "We Take No Prisoners," indicating that they simply killed Japanese prisoners, an action in deep violation of the Geneva Convention.  The US military didn't operate like that in Germany although there was sporadic killing of German prisoners.  The war propaganda against the Japanese was exterminationist in nature.  In addition, in 1942 the American government locked up 120,000 US citizens of Japanese descent in camps in the desert.  No such action was taken against German or Italian Americans.

 

Nevertheless, after WWII racist American attitudes against the Japanese began to change to the point that by the 1960's Japanese-Americans intermarried with Caucasians without opprobrium.  Japanese-Americans became the second richest group in America on a per capita basis.  Anti-Japanese hatred resurfaced in the 80's at a time when Japanese carmakers were out-competing American car companies. 

 

Anti-black racism has far deeper roots in America than feelings against the Japanese, but it too depends on the economic climate as to how strong it is at any moment.  So, the question is why has it re-emerged so strongly in the current environment when the US economy is doing fairly well. The answer, in my opinion, is that the economy isn't doing well for the working class and hasn't been since the seventies.  Here is a graph that gives the picture.  In the post-war period until 1973 American workers' income grew along with the gains in productivity.  But from 1973 on workers' incomes stagnated while the gains in productivity were garnered almost entirely by the upper 10% or, especially, the upper 1%, whose share of the national income grew during roughly this period from 9% to 24%.

 

 

This profound change and the declining economic expectations of the working class put those Americans who were losing out into a bad mood, which they then direct toward traditional targets, especially, but not only, black people.  The chant of the white racists in Charlottesville, "Jews will not replace us" is an economic complaint.  The earlier post-war period, by contrast, in which economic gains were broadly shared across the workforce was the same period in which white Americans, feeling generous, acquiesced to the black civil rights movement, despite the significant pushback from diehard racists. 

 

The well-being of the white working class is indeed threatened, although not by Muslims or black people.  Racist demagogues, such as Trump, have always been ready to capitalize on their fear by turning it against the helpless.

[CaptHaddock]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Sadly, John McCain is now very, very ill.

So this speech can be seen as historic.

A very moving total take down of the isolationist fascism of the trumpist movement, without even mentioning trump or fascism. 

 

 

You have to be careful about taking all the hype about McCain at face value.  "Isolationist" in this context is a pejorative term applied to those Americans who oppose the perpetual war program of Bush, Cheney, and the US government since.  The warm gloss on the term "Globalist" suggesting a positive engagement with the world is just propaganda. 

 

McCain is the enemy of my enemy, so that's fine, but he's been a lifelong conservative and militarist. 

[mogandave]

You have to be careful about taking all the hype about McCain at face value.  "Isolationist" in this context is a pejorative term applied to those Americans who oppose the perpetual war program of Bush, Cheney, and the US government since.  The warm gloss on the term "Globalist" suggesting a positive engagement with the world is just propaganda. 
 
McCain is the enemy of my enemy, so that's fine, but he's been a lifelong conservative and militarist. 

He’s a fat white warmonger

[craigt3365]

15 minutes ago, mogandave said:

He’s a fat white warmonger

Terrible post.  He deserves more respect than that.

[craigt3365]

2018 might be the year of impeachment proceedings.  We can only hope.

 

http://cookpolitical.com/analysis/house/house-overview/house-ratings-changes-12-districts-democrats-gain-momentum

House: Ratings Changes in 12 Districts as Democrats Gain Momentum

[mogandave]

Terrible post.  He deserves more respect than that.

Respect has to be earned continuously, not because of something that happened 40 years ago.

That he is slowing down the orange buffoon is great, but he is not doing it for ideological reasons, he’s doing it for spite.

He’s also a liar and while he may have earned your respect, he gets none from me.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Respect has to be earned continuously, not because of something that happened 40 years ago.

That he is slowing down the orange buffoon is great, but he is not doing it for ideological reasons, he’s doing it for spite.

He’s also a liar and while he may have earned your respect, he gets none from me.

He's got a pretty good track record.  Better than most.  And respect can come from something that happened 40 years ago.

 

A liar?

[mogandave]

He's got a pretty good track record.  Better than most.  And respect can come from something that happened 40 years ago.
 
A liar?

Someone that says things that are not true.

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Someone that says things that are not true.

Thanks for the kindergarten lesson.  Now how about an example.

[mogandave]

Thanks for the kindergarten lesson.  Now how about an example.

Health care

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Health care

Hardly a lie.  And he still deserves respect.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world-0/us-politics/john-mccain-donald-trump-healthcare-obamacare-repeal-skinny-bill-senate-vote-statement-full-a7864091.html

Quote

'While the amendment would have repealed some of Obamacare's most burdensome regulations, it offered no replacement to actually reform our health care system'

Stand up thing to do for the American people.

 

[Slip]

An interesting twitter thread although I'm sure not all will agree with it:

 

Quote

Every fact we have points to a Trump family conspiracy on Russia—the *whole family*. There are no exculpatory facts—so BEAR DOWN.

https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/920287921277726720

[mogandave]

Stand up thing to do for the American people.
 

Whatever

[craigt3365]

16 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Whatever

And thus, one of the big problems we face today.  Politics gets chosen over what's the best thing to do.  With replies of "whatever". LOL

[thaihome]

7 hours ago, CaptHaddock said:

You have to be careful about taking all the hype about McCain at face value.  "Isolationist" in this context is a pejorative term applied to those Americans who oppose the perpetual war program of Bush, Cheney, and the US government since.  The warm gloss on the term "Globalist" suggesting a positive engagement with the world is just propaganda. 

 

McCain is the enemy of my enemy, so that's fine, but he's been a lifelong conservative and militarist. 

Agree, "the enemy of my of my enemy" says it  well. McCain's choice of Sarah Palin as VP was the start of a process that got us Trump and conservative wing nuts in congress today.  To say nothing of his continue support of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan.  

TH 

 

Quote

 

   Being a liberal in the Donald Trump era is tricky. On the one hand, you’re grateful for any conservative who denounces the president’s authoritarian lies. On the other, you can’t help but notice that many of the conservatives who condemn Trump most passionately—Bill Kristol, Bret Stephens, Michael Gerson, Jennifer Rubin—remain wedded to the foreign policy legacy of George W. Bush. And in criticizing Trump’s amoral “isolationism,” they backhandedly defend the disastrous interventionism that helped produce his presidency in the first place.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/what-john-mccain-gets-wrong-about-trumps-nationalism/543183/
 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2017 by thaihome