Thailand has become too militarised, analysts say

[Bluespunk]

1 minute ago, elgordo38 said:

One is a small number and he was rather an intelligent number not comparable to ordinary folk

Nonetheless... intelligence is not a crime. 

 

At least not in states where freedom is guaranteed. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Bluespunk

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You mean like the 2010 unrest where the military put a stop without resorting to a coup.

Great contrast.

 

In both periods of violent protests the elected governments declared a State of Emergency. The military leaders assisted the Democrat PM Abhisit in forcibly quelling the violence as you noted without a coup. All perfectly legal according to the 2007 Constitution and the subsequent Constitutional Court ruling that excused military action that killed civilian bystanders in amongst the protesters.

 

But the same military leaders refused to assist the PTP PM Yingluckin quelling similar violence under a State of Emergency with the excuse that the police can handle the violence without military assistance. Then the Constitutional Court ruled in 2014 that police cannot use even benign force (ie., water cannons, tear gas) to put down the protests, effectively neutralizing the government's ability to stop violence. When the protest violence ceased under the weight of its unfulfilled efforts to overthrow the government, the military resorted to a coup.

 

Same situations, different military behavior. The answer lies with a military that operates under a political agenda.

[CaptHaddock]

5 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

You mean like the 2010 unrest where the military put a stop without resorting to a coup. The unrest in 2010 was more dire than the 2013 Bangkok shutdown. You made a good point Sir. 

There was no military coup in 2010 because there had already been a judicial coup in 2008 that removed the elected Prime Minister, Somchai Wongsawat, and the Palang Prachachon Party, banning both, and installed the Democrat Party which hadn't won an election since 1992 and the vile Abhisit as PM.  They had already stolen the government.

 

The "unrest" in 2010 was a demonstration by the Thai majority calling for free elections.  

[pentap]

Wow!

They have actually come to that conclusion and been allowed to say it too?

They must be rocket scientists? I'm sure no one else has even considered what they claimed !!!!

[madusa]

10 hours ago, dinsdale said:

Who's off to the military retraining camp then. Getting rid of these military megalomaniacs will be very diificult. Maybe this country needs a peoples' revolution. Could call it The Lotus Revolution.

If any Revolution it would be a "Tom Yam Revolution" hot one moment then cool quickly and back to the old system of getting things done.

An honest politician who wants to put Thailand on its feet would the first people to be murdered, because too much at stake. You don't even whisper about it. Your head is on the chopping board if you do.

I am not sure if the rich (Hi-so) marry the military and politicians  so they became one family then it would be a big problem trying to loosen their grip on power, you have power and i have money together we can suck the blood of the poor till they are dried like a cicadas shedding its skins.

[dinsdale]

2 hours ago, madusa said:

If any Revolution it would be a "Tom Yam Revolution" hot one moment then cool quickly and back to the old system of getting things done.

An honest politician who wants to put Thailand on its feet would the first people to be murdered, because too much at stake. You don't even whisper about it. Your head is on the chopping board if you do.

I am not sure if the rich (Hi-so) marry the military and politicians  so they became one family then it would be a big problem trying to loosen their grip on power, you have power and i have money together we can suck the blood of the poor till they are dried like a cicadas shedding its skins.

Hence this country will never move forward. Myanmar looked like it might advance but the military still has a strangle hold there. SE Asia when it comes down to it is pretty fkd up. Corruption breeds corruption, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This unfortunately defines Thailand. What a shame. 

 

[hawker9000]

Gee, ya' think?

[Matt96]

On 5/22/2017 at 10:42 AM, Prbkk said:

Not that I support them but coups have a 'use by date' , only effective in the very short term. They go right off the rails when the perpetrators seek to be the permanent govt ( or at least seek to determine the make-up of any subsequent govt).

Huffing and puffing military types are never a solution to domestic problems. Reminiscent of Greece in the 60s, Argentina in the 70s ( right down to the uniforms).

this is not true. both Thai economic booms happened during rules of two military dictators - Thanom Kittikachon in 60-es and Prem Timsulanonda in 80-es. and what happened during periods of democracy?

 

in 70-es - communist uprising and recession, in 90-es - unbelievable corruption and world economic crisis triggered by Thailand and George Soros.

 

all economic miracles in Asia happened under dictatorships and none under democratically elected governments

 

South Korean - under Park Chung-hee

Japanese - under one party leadership (when it lost power economic growth stopped)

Chinese - under Den Xiaping,

Singaporean - under Lee Kuan Yew

Taiwanese - under Chiang Kai-shek

 

but die-hard liberals like you keep saying "democracy is better even if Hitler is elected"

 

 

 

[Matt96]

On 5/22/2017 at 11:15 AM, Mad mick said:

 l moved to Vietnam where im welcomed 3 entry tourist visas , actually more freedom and no problems with multiple entrys , buy a house or start a business + simple in your name working visas they want us " 5 years and u can get citizenship if u want " very excepting to have duel passports " they are a comminust country " hard to believe , more freedom than western country's

good luck with commies.

 

Western countries have less freedom because they are in fact under communist progressive rule of people who call them self "liberal" "progressive" and "globalist".

 

i can imagine what would happen if people in Vietnam will " Dare to struggle dare to Win . Stand up for your  country " -  rivers of blood.

 

but you are planning you future there so its convenient for you to think that it's fine there. that Vietnamese communist party dictators are less dictators then others. happy self-deceiving

 

 

[Matt96]

On 5/22/2017 at 9:23 PM, dinsdale said:

Hence this country will never move forward.

like Europe full of parasites who get free housing, medical care and angrily request more welfare from infidels for jihad against infidels? and taxi drivers beat (and the leftist government support them) Uber drivers because they charge customers less?  no, thank you...

[Matt96]

22 minutes ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Perhaps you could enlighten us why these un-elected military leaders are so much better than the politicians that you rail constantly against?

because they have no necessity to invest huge sums of money in election and buying votes - therefore no need to get it back by corruption or pay it back by giving special preferences to cronies. they don't need to rob successful minority to share their wealth among incompetent and stupid majority to make it vote for them.

 

not elected Prime minister Prem Tinsulanonda was the most "selfless bureaucrat" and free of corruption prime minister in Thai history - as Lee Kuan Yew described him. and Lee knew what corruption is -he managed to build number two free of corruption country in the World.

Edited May 23, 2017 by Matt96

[Matt96]

military governments - the bets things happened in Thailand

Edited May 23, 2017 by Matt96

[the guest]

I feel sorry for those that have never experienced 'true' freedom, freedom of speech and self expression. This right, which most of us in EU enjoy, not as a privilege, but is a fundamental right, is denied to the people of Thailand. The country has so much potential, but is unfortunately let down by this undemocratic administration. 

[onthesoi]

12 minutes ago, the guest said:

I feel sorry for those that have never experienced 'true' freedom, freedom of speech and self expression. This right, which most of us in EU enjoy, not as a privilege, but is a fundamental right, is denied to the people of Thailand. The country has so much potential, but is unfortunately let down by this undemocratic administration. 

Which western countries in the have: 'true' freedom, freedom of speech and self expression?

 

I'm just wondering about people like Anjem Choudary, Assange, Snowden, Manning & assorted members of the public who went to jail for saying things on FB, twitter that the gov didn't approve of?

 

[anon4546543]

I look at the "democracies" of Palestine, Iran, and lets be honest, most western countries. Western countries have lost so many freedoms, they cannot express an opinion because they are spied on.

Democracy is nothing more than a word, elections are rigged or perverted by false news. Get real, no country is a true democracy where the views of all the populace reflects those actually voted in.

In Thailand, they have never had democracy. Just people voted in that scammed the poor. (Yes, I know this happens everywhere but a majority poor country like Thailand is especially sad)

I have never seen so much peace in Thailand since the Junta. And for sure, the opposing views are even now blowing up hospitals, shopping centres and the like.

It just shows that they are not mature enough to accept an opposition as in a true democracy.

I can say this for a large rural area around my small home.

They love the peace. They love the stability. They love the fact that they can make plans.

New home are being built, new cars purchased, bank loans approved for agricultural endeavours. No police or military worry me or anyone in my village. Several drug families are in jail. Viva la Junta. 

[Prbkk]

7 hours ago, Matt96 said:

this is not true. both Thai economic booms happened during rules of two military dictators - Thanom Kittikachon in 60-es and Prem Timsulanonda in 80-es. and what happened during periods of democracy?

 

in 70-es - communist uprising and recession, in 90-es - unbelievable corruption and world economic crisis triggered by Thailand and George Soros.

 

all economic miracles in Asia happened under dictatorships and none under democratically elected governments

 

South Korean - under Park Chung-hee

Japanese - under one party leadership (when it lost power economic growth stopped)

Chinese - under Den Xiaping,

Singaporean - under Lee Kuan Yew

Taiwanese - under Chiang Kai-shek

 

but die-hard liberals like you keep saying "democracy is better even if Hitler is elected"

 

 

 

Way off the mark. Growth under Kittikachorn was fuelled almost entirely by massive American aid/investment during the Vietnam War and had nothing to do with domestic policies; the Prem govts were military in name only and far more benign , and with far greater and more effective civilian involvement than other regimes.

At the time of Chiang Kai-Shek's death ,Taiwan was still predominantly rural and one of the poorest ( and most repressive) countries in Asia. It was dependant on US aid. Same for South Korea.

Next you'll be telling us that RP under Marcos was a great example of how military rule is best for Asia.

[wakeupplease]

We have all seen today what ideology and propaganda has done to children on a night out. A few men who grab power then decide that you will live their way at all costs. You may have also witnessed the resolve of the many to win through and in time they will in other countries.

 

Its been 3 years of lies, deceit, corruption and intimidation, all contrived to keep those in power in power at all costs.

 

So sad to see those who claim to know be brainwashed by a gang of little men who have never achieve anything in their lives, except tell lies almost as big as hil>>>>.

[maewang99]

while but the biggest untouchable political class in Thailand..... are the ajarn..... yeah right....

how about THIS......  a country that is too uneducated.

example.

just how often do you see long queues at the local mall bookshop with folks anxious to buy books they want to read? 

or is it more likely it's one or two customers at a time.... purchasing a handful of coloring pencils and coloring pens?

does everyone order online and hide in a closet somewhere when they read? everyone reads by 'smartphone'? I sure sure hope so. but I got a funny feeling it just ain't so.

and literacy..... ain't just being able to read.

it ain't something only young people wearing the same uniforms pretend to do.

and literacy sure ain't Shakespeare or textbooks.

literacy is everything. it's why we don't still live in caves or go back to using our thumbs for the only reason we... and only we primates out of the millions of species that have evolved on Earth over 4 billion years... the only reason we have thumbs....for grabbing tree branches and eating bananas.





   

 

Edited May 23, 2017 by maewang99

[Srikcir]

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

I look at the "democracies" of ... Iran

Iran is a theocracy and not a democracy. There's a difference.

Palestine is not a country in the sense of having internationally recognized sovereignty. So comparing its manner of governance to any nation is irrational. However, even in its governance, it does well to aspire to some principles of democracy given the existence of essentially two separate and diametrically opposed operating governments - something you don't see in democracies.

 

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

not mature enough to accept an opposition as in a true democracy

When the Thai military cannot accept "true democracy," how can the Thai people ever achieve it? The military since 1932 has maintained absolute extrajudicial power over the Thai people, never allowing "true" democracy to survive.

 

3 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

the opposing views are even now blowing up hospitals, shopping centres and the like.

Those recent attacks were by the Pattani Malay insurgents who are fighting for sovereign autonomy in southern Thailand from the Kingdom of Thailand. Hardly what one might call the "opposition" that is more associated with political disparity that one finds throughout Thailand (and any true democratic nation) between political ideologies such as Democrats vs Pheu Thai Party. Your analysis is very flawed and misleading.

 

[Matt96]

4 hours ago, spiderorchid said:

I have never seen so much peace in Thailand since the Junta. And for sure, the opposing views are even now blowing up hospitals, shopping centres and the like

sic!

[onthesoi]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Palestine is not a country in the sense of having internationally recognized sovereignty.

 

Ahem...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-palestinians-statehood-idUSBRE8AR0EG20121201

 

[Matt96]

2 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Growth under Kittikachorn was fuelled almost entirely by massive American aid/investment during the Vietnam War and had nothing to do with domestic policies;

you can make up whatever explanation you like. but the fact is that military governments did what democratic governments failed to achieve

 

2 hours ago, Prbkk said:

the Prem govts were military in name only and far more benign , and with far greater and more effective civilian involvement than other regimes.

Prem's govts were

1) unelected

2)Prem was  a general and became a PM BECAUSE he was a chief of army. same as Prayut.

 

therefore it's a proof that military government is better for Thailand then elected one.

and who came after Prem? elected Chatichai Choonhavan's governement, which was the most corrupted in Thai history

 

3 hours ago, Prbkk said:

At the time of Chiang Kai-Shek's death ,Taiwan was still predominantly rural and one of the poorest ( and most repressive) countries in Asia

 

because Taiwan started from zero. but the rate of growth was very high.

elected french Hollande left France still quite strong economically. is it his achievement? no. because he got France while it was strong economically already.

 

3 hours ago, Prbkk said:

Next you'll be telling us that RP under Marcos was a great example of how military rule is best for Asia

no I would not. dictators can be good and can be bad (like Kim Il Sung for example), but democratic governments are always bad.

 

 

 

[Matt96]

2 hours ago, maewang99 said:

how about THIS......  a country that is too uneducated.

example.

just how often do you see long queues at the local mall bookshop with folks anxious to buy books they want to read? 

all leftists somehow believe that education make all people leftists. no it will not.

paper books are outdated now. people read books on book readers, Ipads and on phones now.

 

 

2 hours ago, maewang99 said:

and literacy..... ain't just being able to read.

please show me the proof of it

 

 

2 hours ago, maewang99 said:

literacy is everything.

no its not. harmony in soul is everything.

 

2 hours ago, maewang99 said:

literacy is everything. it's why we don't still live in caves or go back to using our thumbs for the only reason we... and only we primates out of the millions of species that have evolved on Earth over 4 billion years

and during 99.99999%  of these "4 billions years" writing  did not exist

[Matt96]

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

However, even in its governance, it does well to aspire to some principles of democracy given the existence of essentially two separate and diametrically opposed operating governments - something you don't see in democracies.

in Palestine "government" sanctions cartoon for kids which encourage them to blow themselves and "damn Jews"  . this is what you call "principles of democracy"?

 

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

When the Thai military cannot accept "true democracy," how can the Thai people ever achieve it?

why they should archive it? military governments proved to be more effective in Thailand

because whining white liberals from NGO's think so?

 

1 hour ago, Srikcir said:

Those recent attacks were by the Pattani Malay insurgents who are fighting for sovereign autonomy in southern Thailand from the Kingdom of Thailand

do you have a proof of it?  or just blah-blah?

and also those Malays are not insurgents, but terrorists. they deserve death penalty, family house burned down, all family properties confiscated and their rotten bodies buried covered in pork skin

Edited May 24, 2017 by Matt96

[YetAnother]

On 5/22/2017 at 7:15 AM, Raymonddiaz said:

Maybe Thai people don't want democracy after all. Most of them don't fight for their rights

my fear is that thais are now getting used to existing in a military dictatorship; many seem to think of it in terms of :'best of bad options'' ,military's popularity does seem to be slipping a bit but as yet there is no real opposition

[Matt96]

2 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

my fear is that thais are now getting used to existing in a military dictatorship; many seem to think of it in terms of :'best of bad options'' ,military's popularity does seem to be slipping a bit but as yet there is no real opposition

why its a fear from you? Why Thai people can't support the government which does the work well? which brought peace? whose opposition blows hospitals?

because you think that democracy is more important then happiness?

[Dumbastheycome]

I  find  nothing   negative  in  the   comments. Perhaps  more  of a reminder  to  some that  the unelected positions  they hold are  based  on the  promise  of  an eventually  socially  favourable outcome.

And in the  event  of that  outcome I  agree  with  Abhisit .

I  doubt  that there  is  any country  where  there is  no influence on behalf of  the  very  rich  but at  least  this regime  has  made  some inroads to  eliminate  the  influence  of  blatant  corruption   despite that  being  an inconvenience  to  some.

[paz]

On 5/24/2017 at 4:00 AM, Matt96 said:

<whatever>

You will graduate to be a real fascist possibly in another life. For now, you're just a delusional hater,  separated from reality, hiding behind a keyboard.

[Matt96]

7 hours ago, paz said:

You will graduate to be a real fascist possibly in another life. For now, you're just a delusional hater,  separated from reality, hiding behind a keyboard.

would you like to prove why my point of view is similar to fascist one?

 

or just blah-blah as usual?

[onthesoi]

Not seen too many soldiers on the streets of Thailand, unlike in Europe where the number of security walking around with automatic weapons seems to be growing, photo from a few days ago: