Penang - METV or double entry TV available?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I know some do look for somewhere on arrival but the reason they use lonely planet is so they can plan where they want to stay, genius.

 

And you are in a minority of the millions of visitors. I bet you still have an idea of where you are going to stay or return to the same places.

 

No it wasn't. You need a history lesson.

Most backpackers these days don't "freestyle", they have things planned out and the support of agents.

 

Lonely Planet book only gives a few places to stay. There are hundreds of places on Khao San Rd and surrounds, many not on the internet. Hardly any are in the book.

Even Sukhumvit has hundreds of small places in the sois.

If they ask on Lonely Planet Thorn Tree, they only got a very few suggestions, as most of us said to just go and look around.

 

The first time I go somewhere I have no idea of where I'm going to stay. I look around after I arrive.

 

Soooooo. You are claiming that the first farangs to visit Samui didn't arrive on a coconut boat?

I suppose you have a much better and more interesting story to tell then. Do tell.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The more visitor numbers increase the tougher they will get enforcing the rules. Simple as that.

 

Wanting the visitor to demonstrate an intention to leave is not unique to Thailand. Blame increased numbers, past overstayers, perpetual tourists, and illegal workers.

Again- it is illogical to enforce a flight out when many want to travel overland. It is also pointless because they don't check to see that one actually leaves on the flight given. 

If overstaying is a problem, deal with overstayers,  but don't penalise everyone because of a few bad apples.

Edited May 25, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[elviajero]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Soooooo. You are claiming that the first farangs to visit Samui didn't arrive on a coconut boat?

No. I'm disputing your claim that,  "Thailand was "discovered" by backpackers"

[thaibeachlovers]

9 minutes ago, elviajero said:

No. I'm disputing your claim that,  "Thailand was "discovered" by backpackers"

LOL. They sure weren't using wheelie bags.

This is just becoming a bickerfest and waaaaay off topic which is "can I get a visa in Penang".

 

Can someone close this thread please.

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Again- it is illogical to enforce a flight out when many want to travel overland. It is also pointless because they don't check to see that one actually leaves on the flight given. 

If overstaying is a problem, deal with overstayers,  but don't penalise everyone because of a few bad apples.

In most cases onward flights are not enforced. The reason it is becoming more enforced when getting tourist visas from countries neighboring Thailand is to make it harder for the perpetual tourists. A backpacker can just enter visa free at many borders and they don't need onward flights.

[BritTim]

33 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Most backpackers these days don't "freestyle", they have things planned out and the support of agents.

My backpacking days are long behind me. I need a more comfortable and predictable existence these days. However, I bet there are still many with the same mindset I used to have. Book rooms in advance? You must be joking. Good chance I can arrange to kip on on the floor in a new friend's apartment. Paying agents? When traveling on $3 a day, you have nothing spare for unnecessary commissions. I admit there were always people who regarded themselves as backpackers who were not really shoestring travelers. Also, Thailand, always a bit dubious about the really low end tourists, has become a lot less welcoming to them in recent years.

[notmyself]

4 hours ago, elviajero said:

Most backpackers these days don't "freestyle", they have things planned out and the support of agents.

 

To some degree that is correct but you make no mention as to why this is the case. To a large extent the reason behind it has been imposed so people have had no choice other than to adapt their itinerary rather than a conscious desire to do so.  Previously, Thailand and specifically Bangkok was indeed a 'hub' where people would venture out by road or rail to explore various regions of Thailand as well as surrounding countries in the manner of that of spokes on a bicycle wheel. A typical trip now not so much off the beaten track would be or have been.

 

Week or so in Bangkok then head west to the border of Burma and up toward CM and CR. Then head east to enter Laos before the 30 days were up. 3-4-5 days in Laos then it is back to Thailand arriving in Bangkok maybe a week later. Bit more time there before heading down to Pattaya, Rayong, Koh Chang etc. entering Cambodia within 30 days. Couple of weeks there with maybe a short skirmish into southern 'nam then it is back to Bangkok. Few more days there again then head down either the western or eastern seaboard (depending on when the FMP was) before entering Malaysia for a couple of weeks that could also entail Sumatra and Singapore. Back into Thailand for a slow 30 day crawl up toward Bangkok via the seaboard you omitted on the way down to meet your connecting or return flight.

 

That was, and still would be, the itinerary most used by the backpackers but you can't do that now because of the 'only 2 land entries per year'. Not the end of the world as you can slowly make your way down to Cambodia from Laos rather than re-entering the Kingdom and thus only needing 2 land entries. Now a new problem has reared its ugly head in that none of the southern border entry points are giving visa exempt entries if you have previously been in Thailand and exited via a land border (or not!) which makes the 2 entry rule meaningless.

 

I think it is this mentality that member thaibeachlovers is referring to with regard to Samui being 'made' by backpackers and people of such mind-set. I've been doing this so long and have so many friends met along the way that most of settled down and had kids. It is their children who have grown up and have gap years from collage - university who constantly ask me the best way of doing it because they want to see the world as a backpacker. These days I tell them to get an SETV, do it in 3 months and never return. Better to do it elsewhere where backpackers are still welcome because it has nothing to do with 'free styling' no longer existing, Thailand does not want them.

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

My backpacking days are long behind me. I need a more comfortable and predictable existence these days. However, I bet there are still many with the same mindset I used to have. Book rooms in advance? You must be joking. Good chance I can arrange to kip on on the floor in a new friend's apartment. Paying agents? When traveling on $3 a day, you have nothing spare for unnecessary commissions. I admit there were always people who regarded themselves as backpackers who were not really shoestring travelers. Also, Thailand, always a bit dubious about the really low end tourists, has become a lot less welcoming to them in recent years.

$3/day was a couple decades back - you must be as old as me :).

I was traveling with my Thai gf last visa trip - she insisted I did *not* pre-book a room, because of the lack of quality we have experienced in the past - even in hotels with better reviews.  In Vientiane, there were a dozens of places to choose from in a 4-block radius of the area we wanted to stay.  Granted, if going 4/5-star, booking with Expedia or Agoda could save some $$ with little risk of filth.

Thailand is certainly less welcoming to Western low-end tourists, but they will offer free-visas and suspend the "2x Land Border per calendar-year" rule to let the other even lower-end tourists in.

 

7 minutes ago, notmyself said:

none of the southern border entry points are giving visa exempt entries if you have previously been in Thailand and exited via a land border (or not!) which makes the 2 entry rule meaningless.

When did this start?  It has been reported they are asking to see $$.  What is the "new rule" for them?  Stay out a week? 30 days?

 

8 minutes ago, notmyself said:

These days I tell them to get an SETV, do it in 3 months and never return. Better to do it elsewhere where backpackers are still welcome because it has nothing to do with 'free styling' no longer existing, Thailand does not want them.

Better to get an METV if wanting to base out of Thailand - a pain though that may be (depending on one's passport-country's consulate).  Vietnam and Cambodia are better choices for a hub - though if the southern-border story is true, they may need to fly around Thailand to get back from Malaysia.  It seems like some here have been studying Bhutan as the example of "good tourism" practices.

[notmyself]

26 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

When did this start?  It has been reported they are asking to see $$.  What is the "new rule" for them?  Stay out a week? 30 days?

 

Better to get an METV if wanting to base out of Thailand - a pain though that may be (depending on one's passport-country's consulate).  Vietnam and Cambodia are better choices for a hub - though if the southern-border story is true, they may need to fly around Thailand to get back from Malaysia.  It seems like some here have been studying Bhutan as the example of "good tourism" practices.

 

Hesitant to answer as it might derail the thread though the OP question was answered already so here goes.

 

Last few months or maybe more have shown a not so slow decline in the availability of visa exempt entries even if outside the Kingdom for >48 hours. Was Sadao initially but now it is the whole lot though to be honest I've not heard of the Satun - Langkawi situation. The 20k Baht has always been there but never enforced unless the immigration officer is just looking for a reason for refuse. I've never yet been asked to show it in 17 years but I always make sure I have it on me just in case. It used to be 20k in whatever currency (within reason) but I've heard stories that it has to be in Baht which is a bit of and issue getting it in Baht if you have to take it out of an ATM in a foreign country.

 

With the METV I agree but my post was about backpackers who are unlikely to have a spare 6000 (GBP) or equivalent depending on country or origin just sitting in a bank account for 6 months. Same with flights to an extent which would help solve potential issues but then that is not really backpacking is it?

 

Oh. If you mean about the only 2 visa exempt land entries per year then I think that started Jan 1st. I can't fall foul of that because I have none in my passport and it's 5 years old now.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, notmyself said:

... Last few months or maybe more have shown a not so slow decline in the availability of visa exempt entries even if outside the Kingdom for >48 hours. Was Sadao initially but now it is the whole lot though to be honest I've not heard of the Satun - Langkawi situation.

...

Oh. If you mean about the only 2 visa exempt land entries per year then I think that started Jan 1st. I can't fall foul of that because I have none in my passport and it's 5 years old now.

Some have reported that the 2-visa-exempt-by-land rule has made it easier to get these (up to 2) at land-borders.  If this is not the case at the southern points of entry - good to know about that.  I'll keep an eye out for any reports of denial, but so far, I've only seen the "show the cash" mentioned as spreading from Sadao to Pedang Besar.

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

The more visitor numbers increase the tougher they will get enforcing the rules. Simple as that.

 

Why?  Running out of condos to rent or food to sell at restaurants?  Too much foreign-money flowing in and boosting the Thai economy?  I know, I know, I'm trying to think logically, again - doesn't apply in this context.

 

Quote

Wanting the visitor to demonstrate an intention to leave is not unique to Thailand. Blame increased numbers, past overstayers, perpetual tourists, and illegal workers.

Well, I guess I could blame the illegal workers, most who come from Myanmar and Cambodia to get a higher Thai-wage than they can earn at home - but they get easier access than we do - doors literally left open to them, but closed to us. 

 

I think I'll blame those who seem to have some weird issue with "too many Farangs," and therefore not creating a system where a visitor simply proves they have the money in the bank to support themselves and not become a burden, then hearing the words "Welcome To Thailand." 

 

I wish the millions of immigrants, legal and illegal, entering my passport-country every year showed up with their own money to spend into our economy, making our citizens wealthier.  OTOH, if they hadn't been used to destroy our way of life there, maybe I would not have discovered Thailand.

Edited May 26, 2017 by JackThompson

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. They sure weren't using wheelie bags.

This is just becoming a bickerfest and waaaaay off topic which is "can I get a visa in Penang".

 

Can someone close this thread please.

Apologies, I was mistaken. This is not my OP.

It was late at night and I was tired.

[thaibeachlovers]

41 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

Why?  Running out of condos to rent or food to sell at restaurants?  Too much foreign-money flowing in and boosting the Thai economy?  I know, I know, I'm trying to think logically, again - doesn't apply in this context.

 

Well, I guess I could blame the illegal workers, most who come from Myanmar and Cambodia to get a higher Thai-wage than they can earn at home - but they get easier access than we do - doors literally left open to them, but closed to us. 

 

I think I'll blame those who seem to have some weird issue with "too many Farangs," and therefore not creating a system where a visitor simply proves they have the money in the bank to support themselves and not become a burden, then hearing the words "Welcome To Thailand." 

 

I wish the millions of immigrants, legal and illegal, entering my passport-country every year showed up with their own money to spend into our economy, making our citizens wealthier.  OTOH, if they hadn't been used to destroy our way of life there, maybe I would not have discovered Thailand.

Excellent post.

It occurred to me that Malaysia has no such problems, allowing me a long visa exempt at the border without proof of funds or a flight out. I guess they actually want me to stay there and spend my money/ support local businesses etc.

Thai bureaucrats would do well to look to them for inspiration.

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post.

It occurred to me that Malaysia has no such problems, allowing me a long visa exempt at the border without proof of funds or a flight out. I guess they actually want me to stay there and spend my money/ support local businesses etc.

Thai bureaucrats would do well to look to them for inspiration.

In fairness, you will find your 2nd entry back-to-back will likely be questioned, and certainly your 3rd.  The days when you could leave for a week and return in-perpetuity are over, but the 90-days exempt-time is nice. 

Tourism is a much smaller portion of their economy, and wages significantly higher there, so it is not surprising they are more strict.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

In fairness, you will find your 2nd entry back-to-back will likely be questioned, and certainly your 3rd.  The days when you could leave for a week and return in-perpetuity are over, but the 90-days exempt-time is nice. 

Tourism is a much smaller portion of their economy, and wages significantly higher there, so it is not surprising they are more strict.

Where is more strict? It's unclear.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Where is more strict? It's unclear.

My understanding - Malaysia, generally, will not allow you to do more than 1 back-to-back entry visa-exempt.  People I spoke to who stayed there in prior years said they only had to leave for a week every 90-days and return - but this is not true anymore.   I do not see any info for "tourist visas" into Malaysia, due to the 90-days on exempt - tourist-visas being the Thai option to stay longer. Best to continue this inquiry in a forum on Malaysia, though - with folks who have lived there more recently - things may have changed for better or worse since I last looked into it.

Edited May 26, 2017 by JackThompson

[notmyself]

15 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Some have reported that the 2-visa-exempt-by-land rule has made it easier to get these (up to 2) at land-borders.  If this is not the case at the southern points of entry - good to know about that.  I'll keep an eye out for any reports of denial, but so far, I've only seen the "show the cash" mentioned as spreading from Sadao to Pedang Besar.

 

It's something that people can work with but if differs from place to place without any announcement that what are people to do? How do they plan anything and this was the reason for my rather lengthy and an admittedly unwarranted reply to member 'elviajero'. Peole, backpackers etc. know that the visa situation in Thailand is at present in a state of constant flux so many are forced (not a choice) to use some kind of agent or service to get things done. The reason you will not hear of people 'en masse' being refused an 'out-in' or such like is quite simply because nobody will offer the service. Logic 101.

 

The problem with the south seems likely to be associated with the Islamic insurgency in Yala etc. (no proof of that) which is entirely up to the Thai government but in my view they should at least tell people what the situation is. I can get around this with a few Bob here and there,  that would make my entry into Thailand of a dubious nature and that is not something I am willing to do. I wish to stay in the kingdom legally and if I can't do that then I shall go elsewhere.

[barcaman100]

I live in the South and the Malaysia borders are strict on two border entries of 30 day stays in one year. Sadao is probably the busiest crossing but no problem getting into Malaysia only getting out.

[notmyself]

All sorted 'cept for a printout of my flight within 30 days, just if they ask. Landlady wrote me out a contract which has been a while if I think about it. As an aside though somewhat on topic (?) I was out with a disabled friend the other day at the local market to get him some water because it is easier for me to just put a couple of bottles (large white ones) in my saleng and we got pulled over by 3 immigration guys in a pick-up. No passport on me so had to drive back home (3 minutes) with an immigration guy sitting on the side seat of my saleng. No helmet. Locals... all Thai... are looking over when I turn up with a guy in uniforam followed by a pick-up with 5 Burmese in the back wearing handcuffs but never took a step toward us. Showed them my passport and after a couple of minutes they drove off. I drove off not far behind because my friend still needed water and when I return maybe 30 minutes later they were asking what happened though to be honest it was more about how much I had to pay. When I told them nothing to pay they said I was lucky! Perhaps but that is one of the reasons why I always say to people that they should stay legal at all times and this is one of the reasons I am unwilling to get an iffy visa. They can still shaft me if the want to and I have no recourse to the law but can, at least, say I have done my very best.

[crazyk]

Do the thai embassy in mumbai give metv

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, crazyk said:

Do the thai embassy in mumbai give metv

The embassy is New Deli but there is a consulate in Mumbai. In India you have to apply for visa through one of the contract visa application centers. See: https://th.ckgs.in/

If you are a citizen or legal resident of India you could apply for a METV there.

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, notmyself said:

...I can get around this with a few Bob here and there,  that would make my entry into Thailand of a dubious nature and that is not something I am willing to do. I wish to stay in the kingdom legally and if I can't do that then I shall go elsewhere.

I, as well, have been playing "by the book."  I'm close to 50 - not going to get involved in shenanigans that could cause problems in the future.  By "show the cash" I meant showing 10K Baht in-hand to get an Exempt and 20K Baht if with a Visa - not a bribe.   Not having the cash gives them a valid reason for denial of entry.

Edited May 27, 2017 by JackThompson

[notmyself]

25 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I, as well, have been playing "by the book."  I'm close to 50 - not going to get involved in shenanigans that could cause problems in the future.  By "show the cash" I meant showing 10K Baht in-hand to get an Exempt and 20K Baht if with a Visa - not a bribe.   Not having the cash gives them a valid reason for denial of entry.

 

I believe it is 20k regardless but that is not the point I'm making. Southern borders will not give out visa exempt entries according to criteria I mentioned above though they may accidently do so should the right palm be greased. I would consider that to be a knowingly unlawful entry into the kingdom and I don't want to go down that path.

[elviajero]

On 5/27/2017 at 5:14 PM, notmyself said:

 

I believe it is 20k regardless but that is not the point I'm making. Southern borders will not give out visa exempt entries according to criteria I mentioned above though they may accidently do so should the right palm be greased. I would consider that to be a knowingly unlawful entry into the kingdom and I don't want to go down that path.

• It is 10K for a visa exempt entry. 20K for visa entries.
• I'm pretty sure those borders grant hundreds of visa exempt entries every day.

[notmyself]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

• It is 10K for a visa exempt entry. 20K for visa entries.
• I'm pretty sure those borders grant hundreds of visa exempt entries every day.

 

10k is for visa on arrival and not visa exempt... not the same thing. Write up can be found here....

 

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2017 by notmyself

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, notmyself said:

10k is for visa on arrival and not visa exempt... not the same thing. Write up can be found here....

It is 10K for visa on arrival AND visa exempt. They are not the same but the amount of money required is the same.

[Plug2476]

On 5/26/2017 at 4:31 PM, JackThompson said:

In fairness, you will find your 2nd entry back-to-back will likely be questioned, and certainly your 3rd.  The days when you could leave for a week and return in-perpetuity are over, but the 90-days exempt-time is nice. 

Tourism is a much smaller portion of their economy, and wages significantly higher there, so it is not surprising they are more strict.

Malaysia's tourism sector is now the 6th largest contributor to the national economy, contributing a total of RM161 billion (14.9%) of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in 2014.

 

 When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.

 

Not such a huge difference as one might think.   :-)

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Plug2476 said:

Malaysia's tourism sector is now the 6th largest contributor to the national economy, contributing a total of RM161 billion (14.9%) of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in 2014.

 When including indirect travel and tourism receipts, the 2014 total is estimated to have accounted for 19.3 percent (2.3 trillion baht) of Thailand's GDP.

Not such a huge difference as one might think.   :-)

Wow - learn something new every day.  I would guess a lot of that is business-travel, but still - interesting.