Two men publicly caned in Indonesia for having gay sex

[Naam]

49 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This isn't a thread about the etiology of homosexuality. It's about the rise of Islamist inspired barbarism in Indonesia directed at gay people there. 

for the record: only Indonesia's province Aceh introduced strict Sharia Law. no proscecution of gays in any of the other 33 provinces.  

[Prbkk]

8 minutes ago, Naam said:

for the record: only Indonesia's province Aceh introduced strict Sharia Law. no proscecution of gays in any of the other 33 provinces.  

Oh, yes there is: the police raided a gay sauna on Monday and arrested 142 people, including UK, Singapore and Taiwan nationals. Charge: pornography ( couldn't be charged with sex offences because it's legal). That was in Jakarta.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39996508

Edited May 25, 2017 by Prbkk
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[Naam]

Quote

Usernames said:

I believe this particular province chose to enact strict standards of Islamic law. I'm guessing Indonesian citizens can go to other provinces

 

On 5/23/2017 at 4:56 PM, oilinki said:

Could 100 million Indonesians migrate to some other countries in case they don't like the policies what the other 200 million push to them?

 

There is a reason, why we need to allow minorities to have their own ways to live. This applies to all countries.

what part of "other provinces" is it you don't understand?

[Naam]

1 minute ago, Prbkk said:

Oh, yes there is: the police raided a gay sauna on Monday and arrested 142 people, including UK, Singapore and Taiwan nationals. Charge: pornography ( couldn't be charged with sex offences because it's legal). That was in Jakarta.

 

if a gay sauna is considered illegal "pornography" that's bad luck for those arrested. but my best guess is that is was not a surpris but everybody knew about the illegality.

[Naam]

On 5/24/2017 at 2:36 PM, Jingthing said:

I saw an interview with one of the perverted pious Muslim ladies that had watched and cheered this Islamist BARBARISM. Her comment was telling.

of course she cheered because she doesn't like competition

[Naam]

On 5/24/2017 at 8:39 AM, kamahele said:

On 5/23/2017 at 2:44 PM, Usernames said:

Their country, their rules. Don't go there if you don't like it.  And don't invite them in as residents of your country if you don't want to import their values.

Does that make it right?

no it does not make it right. but the fact "their country, their laws" remains.

[Prbkk]

Just now, Naam said:

if a gay sauna is considered illegal "pornography" that's bad luck for those arrested. but my best guess is that is was not a surpris but everybody knew about the illegality.

No, that's not right. This is a new campaign run by the fundamentalists. They are harassing people for being gay, for playing music, for dancing, for not dressing conservatively. 

For decades there was a great nightclub in Jakarta called Tanamur. Most expats would go there to relax; a very mixed crowd. Fundamentalists started turning up to harass the patrons, physically attacking some. Now it's closed and most people have to look for somewhere to relax in a bar in 5star hotel.

 

[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, Naam said:

for the record: only Indonesia's province Aceh introduced strict Sharia Law. no proscecution of gays in any of the other 33 provinces.  

Misleading post.

Sharia only in Aceh.
Persecution of gays in other parts of Indonesia.

Best you follow recent news before posting false information as above. 

[Jingthing]

10 minutes ago, Naam said:

no it does not make it right. but the fact "their country, their laws" remains.

Obviously that is the case, but that doesn't mean there is no value in international attention and opposition to what they are doing. 

 

Also, I don't think I'm being hypocritical here. I welcome international attention on human rights abuses (there are many) in my home nation, the USA. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Jingthing

[Salerno]

On 24/05/2017 at 1:32 PM, sanukjim said:

If there was canning here for that then 50% of the Europeans and all of the lady boys would get the cane.

Where did you pull that "50%" statistic from? <--- Rhetorical question, it's obvious what part of the anatomy that came from.

 

On 24/05/2017 at 3:01 PM, Chip Allen said:

The idea of "their country, their rules" is a demented, outmoded concept, entirely unsuited to modern life. Any country unwilling to conform to western standards should be invaded and brought to heel.

Give me a sec while I grab some popcorn before you invade China.

[Jingthing]

No nation ever invaded another over treatment of gays. 
A fake issue. 

[Naam]

On 5/24/2017 at 0:01 PM, Chip Allen said:

The idea of "their country, their rules" is a demented, outmoded concept, entirely unsuited to modern life. Any country unwilling to conform to western standards should be invaded and brought to heel.

right you are Bwana!

[Naam]

16 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Misleading post.

Sharia only in Aceh.
Persecution of gays in other parts of Indonesia.

Best you follow recent news before posting false information as above. 

of course gays are prosecuted in Indonesia like any other citizens of persons who break laws. that they are prosecuted because they are gay is spreading false information!

[Andaman Al]

30 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

Oh, yes there is: the police raided a gay sauna on Monday and arrested 142 people, including UK, Singapore and Taiwan nationals. Charge: pornography ( couldn't be charged with sex offences because it's legal). That was in Jakarta.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39996508

I don't mean this to be a stupid question, but how would one know it is a 'gay sauna' seeing as most saunas would be male or female only anyway especially in a predominantly Islamic country. Now if it was not a sauna but a knocking shop then that is different, but if its a sauna? You could pop in after work to get you out of the hotel for a couple of hours and before you know it you are in a cell on 'pornography charges'.

[Naam]

22 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

No, that's not right. This is a new campaign run by the fundamentalists. They are harassing people for being gay, for playing music, for dancing, for not dressing conservatively. 

For decades there was a great nightclub in Jakarta called Tanamur. Most expats would go there to relax; a very mixed crowd. Fundamentalists started turning up to harass the patrons, physically attacking some. Now it's closed and most people have to look for somewhere to relax in a bar in 5star hotel.

 

obviously these fundamentalists are tolerated by the government.

[Andaman Al]

22 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

 

For decades there was a great nightclub in Jakarta called Tanamur. Most expats would go there to relax; a very mixed crowd. Fundamentalists started turning up to harass the patrons, physically attacking some. Now it's closed and most people have to look for somewhere to relax in a bar in 5star hotel.

 

Any recommendations? I am off there again soon and the 'Top Gun Bar' just isn't me 

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

how would one know it is a 'gay sauna'

because it's a sauna in a tropical country?

[Prbkk]

8 minutes ago, Naam said:

obviously these fundamentalists are tolerated by the government.

Because they have some political clout when they vote as a bloc....and as we saw in the disgraceful blasphemy case against the Mayor of Jakarta. These are full-blown nutters and their stated desire, their plan is to implement Sharia Law in Every province and nationally.

Suharto, for all his faults, had them under control; the pathetic sitzpinkler pantywaist running the show now is clueless.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Prbkk

[Andaman Al]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

because it's a sauna in a tropical country?

? nope, that doesn't work. You don't go into a sauna to warm up because it's cold you sit in front of a fire, you go into a sauna for specific health benefits whether you are in a cold country or a hot one.  So are all sauna's and hot baths in Turkey and the South of Italy gay places? It's hot there.

[Prbkk]

8 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Any recommendations? I am off there again soon and the 'Top Gun Bar' just isn't me 

No, in my day it was the 3 Ts: Tambora (at Blok M,), Tanamur, and the Tavern at the old Hyatt....now all gone, much to the dismay of those with fond memories of when Jakarta was a fun town.

[Prbkk]

12 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

I don't mean this to be a stupid question, but how would one know it is a 'gay sauna' seeing as most saunas would be male or female only anyway especially in a predominantly Islamic country. Now if it was not a sauna but a knocking shop then that is different, but if its a sauna? You could pop in after work to get you out of the hotel for a couple of hours and before you know it you are in a cell on 'pornography charges'.

I think those who from the community know about it and those who wander in by accident probably get a surprise ( the latter being the theme of a play I saw many years ago with Jack Weston, F Murray Abrams and Rita Moreno, very funny , I forget the name)

[thaihome]

10 minutes ago, Prbkk said:

No, in my day it was the 3 Ts: Tambora (at Blok M,), Tanamur, and the Tavern at the old Hyatt....now all gone, much to the dismay of those with fond memories of when Jakarta was a fun town.

Don't forget  the part of this expat relaxation that included being able to enjoy a good muslim daughter from Aceh for 5 USD. 

 

Do you think this fundamentalist movement in Aceh may be in some way connected to being one of the poorest provinces in Indonesia and the political manipulation by Islamist populist demogues to further their power?  

TH 

[crystal sauce]

On 5/23/2017 at 2:23 PM, webfact said:

hooded men

Why?

[Prbkk]

44 minutes ago, thaihome said:

Don't forget  the part of this expat relaxation that included being able to enjoy a good muslim daughter from Aceh for 5 USD. 

 

Do you think this fundamentalist movement in Aceh may be in some way connected to being one of the poorest provinces in Indonesia and the political manipulation by Islamist populist demogues to further their power?  

TH 

No, that was NEVER part of that scene but I don't discount that it happened elsewhere. Sexploitation was, is, more domestic than international.

[thaihome]

1 hour ago, Prbkk said:

No, that was NEVER part of that scene but I don't discount that it happened elsewhere. Sexploitation was, is, more domestic than international.

I was not saying you participated personally,  I was only commenting on  the "bwana" expat culture that flourished in Indonesia in 80's through the early naughts might have contributed to the rise of Islamist fundamentalism and gave an easy target to the Salafism demogugary preached by the Saudi exported Imans that have caused the problems in Indonesia that you are lamenting.  Of course, the Indonesian government did little to change the socioeconomic conditions in Aceh and other poor provinces that provided a ready breeding ground for the Salafism philosophy. 

TH  

[Naam]

2 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

 So are all sauna's and hot baths in Turkey and the South of Italy gay places? It's hot there.

it's bloody cold in winter (both places)! but whatever, homophobe mobs know exactly which ones are "regular" saunas and which ones are not. let's stop splitting hairs.

[Jingthing]

of course gays are prosecuted in Indonesia like any other citizens of persons who break laws. that they are prosecuted because they are gay is spreading false information!

Again you are wrong and sorely misinformed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/11/no-room-in-indonesia-for-gay-rights-says-president-spokesman

 

To add, currently the Indonesian government is considering criminalizing homosexuality nationwide.

 

 

 

[Naam]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Again you are wrong and sorely misinformed.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/11/no-room-in-indonesia-for-gay-rights-says-president-spokesman

 

To add, currently the Indonesian government is considering criminalizing homosexuality nationwide.

 

yawn... again you shoot your own foot with your insistence on being right. if i'm not sorely mistaken then "considering criminalising homosexuality" means clearly it is presently according to prevailing law not illegal.

[Jingthing]

26 minutes ago, Naam said:

yawn... again you shoot your own foot with your insistence on being right. if i'm not sorely mistaken then "considering criminalising homosexuality" means clearly it is presently according to prevailing law not illegal.

This is getting strange. 
Read the linked article.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/11/no-room-in-indonesia-for-gay-rights-says-president-spokesman

In their report, HRW said that “what began as public condemnation quickly grew into calls for criminalisation and ‘cures’, laying bare the depth and breadth of officials’ individual prejudices”.

The spike in anti-LGBT vitriol, predominantly during January and February this year, has intensified violence against sexual minorities throughout Indonesia, the report said.

 

You do realize that homosexuality itself doesn't need to be explicit illegal for gay people to face societal persecution, right? 

 

The recent raids ... are you actually trying to sell the ridiculous concept that those places weren't targeted because there were gay people there some have gay sex, even if they didn't have the legal code to charge in that way? Come on, now. 

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Jingthing

[balo]

You don't have to avoid all of  Indonesia , I think people are more relaxed in Bali, the muslims are not in majority there. 

 

But avoid this province , what a sad place it must be. 

 

But the victims should consider themselves lucky to only be caned.   In Saudi Arabia they would have been killed.