Marriage Visa - another unpublished change ?

[Tofer]

6 minutes ago, elviajero said:

There is no definitive criteria. The basic criteria is published in the police orders, however, local immigration offices have a certain amount of autonomy, and the senior officer at that office will/can direct their staff to process the application as they want.

 

You can get general advice on criteria from forums like this, but it is best to contact the office you are applying at ahead of time so you know what that office want. It would be great if there was a countrywide standard, but there isn't and never has been.

Thank you for the clarification. That is exactly what I did, twice, as noted in my first post, and still got thwarted. Good job I didn't turn up with only 400k or I'd have been on my bike to KL again! They took the easy way out for them, as I had hedged my bets and shown 800k in the bank.

[mommysboy]

On 24/05/2017 at 10:59 AM, Suradit69 said:

And some applicants seem to have the sort of attitude that begs for that kind of response. For everyone who complains about a difficult experience he's had at immigrations, hundreds, possibly thousands, sail through the process without a hitch year after year.

 

From the way some complaints are written, it's apparent that the applicant simply doesn't understand what is required and, rather than accept his error, then tries to lecture the officer on the "correct" procedure. Considering the number of people they have to deal with on a daily basis, I would say that most officers are remarkably patient and accommodating. 

 

Even on ThaiVisa some people pose a question, get a perfectly correct answer from people like UJ, Elviajero or BritTim and then the person who asked the question proceeds to argue about it, sometimes rather impolitely and at length. If I were an immigration officer, I'm pretty sure I'd have to be heavily dosed on Xanax.

 

 

 

You have a point, but I'd call it 50/50.

 

Nevertheless, the only thing to be done is to comply in a mature manner.

[elviajero]

4 minutes ago, Tofer said:

Let's not fall out over it. As Jaeb said - if it's offered and you meet all the requirements you should get what you ask for. 

I'm here to help, not argue. If people want to stick their fingers in their ears, and head in the sand, that's their lookout.

 

You are asking for a 1 year extension of stay, and regardless of the reason used to justify issuing the extension, you end up with what you asked for. Surely that is not hard to understand.

[Tofer]

9 minutes ago, elviajero said:

I'm here to help, not argue. If people want to stick their fingers in their ears, and head in the sand, that's their lookout.

 

You are asking for a 1 year extension of stay, and regardless of the reason used to justify issuing the extension, you end up with what you asked for. Surely that is not hard to understand.

Sorry my mistake, I'll spell it out more clearly this time. Why should I have to provide / tie up 800k when I'm fully entitled to an extension with only 400k on the basis of marriage.

 

I understand perfectly well that if I'd turned up with only 400k and all the documents I'd been told to provide on 2 previous occasions (and being my last day) I would have been forking out for another trip to KL, as 3 months previously, just because they are too lazy to process a marriage ext.

[elviajero]

Just now, Tofer said:

Sorry my mistake, I'll spell it out more clearly this time. Why should I have to provide / tie up 800k when I'm fully entitled to an extension with only 400k on the basis of marriage.

 

I understand perfectly well that if I'd turned up with only 400k and all the documents I'd been told to provide on 2 previous occasions (and being my last day) I would have been forking out for another trip to KL, as 3 months previously, just because they are too lazy to process a marriage ext.

Let me spell it out. You don't need to, and are not going to be forced to, tie up 800K. BUT if you do voluntarily have 800K+ in your bank it is perfectly reasonable, and to your benefit, that the IO processes the application based on 'retirement' and issues the extension on the spot.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

If they didn't want "expats who live in country" they wouldn't keep granting thousands of permits to stay every year.

 

It is very, very easy to live in Thailand for anyone that can meet the very, very easy criteria. Most problems that expats experience are due to their lack of knowledge, lack of preparation, and sense of entitlement. Most changes and extra requirements requested by immigration are the result of increasing fraudulent applications (e.g. fake marriages) and security fears.

 

Most people go to immigration every year and have absolutely no problems being granted a new extension. Thai bureaucrats  are programmed to dot every i and cross every t, and to follow the rules imposed by their bosses. Employees in government agencies will treat Thai's and foreigners exactly the same way. If you provide what they want, you get what you want. 

If it's so easy, why do they not have a standard requirement in every imm. office in Thailand? Why should a medical be required in Samui and not in Pattaya? Why do they need to inspect the house of a retiree in some places and not others? Why are government witnesses needed anywhere?

If it's so easy, why don't they publish a list of what is ACTUALLY required instead of making it up just because they can?

 

If you provide what they want, you get what you want. 

How is it possible to do that when one doesn't know what they want till they want it? At the moment no one knows everything they want because it's not on the official web site.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

You have a point, but I'd call it 50/50.

 

Nevertheless, the only thing to be done is to comply in a mature manner.

Not so easy when one lives far away from the Imm office for their area. It's not like one can pop home when it's an 8 hour bus ride away.

[burner2014]

On 2017-5-23 at 8:28 PM, Tony M said:

Went to do my marriage extension at Jomtien last week.  This is the 7th extension. The lady that does them knows us now.  This time she told us to go away and bring a  witness who knew we are living together.  When I asked why, she said that maybe we didn't live together. I was going to remind her that 2 years ago, Jomtien immigration had said that all applications for marriage extensions needed a witness to attend. We had done so, and she had asked why we had brought a witness as she knew that we had lived together for 5 years. My wife restrained me from saying what I wanted to say.  All the documentation was complete, apart from this (new) witness requirement. We went away, got a witness, and came back. She got her boss to interview the witness, took copies of his documents, and the application was accepted. Extension will hopefully be issued in a month.

Same thing happend to me this week.  But we had to bring a filled out form (by the witness) and the ID Card Copies including Signatures. 

-> I guess a measurement for all the fake marriages in Thailand?

But I really don't understand that as the Amphore needed already 2 Witnesses for the Marriage.  + we submitted an updated KOR2 Form from the same day.

Before that we had to fill out 6 double pages of forms... (extra to the normal stuff).  Getting really more paperwork :)  

 

Lastly they wanna check our home as well. Happy to invite them.

 

----

 

Not complaining I just think that it would be great if there would be an OPEN Communication what Changes will be applied throughout a YEAR. An updated Checklist would be awesome, but a dream I guess. Next time I will drive to the Immigration first and get all papers and drive another day back again.

Edited May 25, 2017 by burner2014

[Gary A]

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

[Ace of Pop]

Oh what a fuss.Retirement Visa is not for me ,been married here for 25years .Now then ,even I can work out if Iwasnt married I'd need a retirement ext for 800k,same yearly cost,to get it stamped on the Spot .400 K in the Bank n they send it round Thailand , some one looks at it ,sends it back , and. Then it's O.K.Recon they know The Unwed Guys ain't been payin out as much..Kindness and Luck play I Big part of having 800K rotting away at Lo interest,I know many who find it hard, they just been toooo kind really. I just hate the Form Filling n dumb pics,25 years Of same same paper shredded for nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[gmac]

50 minutes ago, Gary A said:

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

Exactly where in the World do you suggest I go with my less than 800,000.  Somewhere cheaper you can recommend, I certainly couldn't afford to go back to the UK where I would be to old to get a job and couldn't afford rent or to buy a property.  Events in the world have had a dramatic negative effect on even the most carefully planned retirements.  Savings rates dropped from and average 8% when I retired to 1% now, pound sterling dropped from 63 baht to the pound to around 43 now.  Easy to be comfortably rich and spout your wisdoms from the comfort of your palace not so easy for everyone. 

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, Gary A said:

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

So you think that someone with 800K in the bank and living in rented accommodation is better off than someone with 400K in the bank and their own home.

[Gary A]

2 minutes ago, gmac said:

Exactly where in the World do you suggest I go with my less than 800,000.  Somewhere cheaper you can recommend, I certainly couldn't afford to go back to the UK where I would be to old to get a job and couldn't afford rent or to buy a property.  Events in the world have had a dramatic negative effect on even the most carefully planned retirements.  Savings rates dropped from and average 8% when I retired to 1% now, pound sterling dropped from 63 baht to the pound to around 43 now.  Easy to be comfortably rich and spout your wisdoms from the comfort of your palace not so easy for everyone. 

 

Firstly, I am by no means wealthy, but I did plan my retirement carefully. My pensions have a healthy surplus every month. I am conservative and have no money in the stock market. My money back home is in an insured money market and the interest is basically nothing. I wire transfer funds once or twice a year to top up my Thai bank account.

 

No way did I retire to have to live like a church mouse and worry about where my next meal was coming from. I don't owe anyone any money and I pay no rent. I admit that it cost several million baht to get in this position but it was well worth it.

[alfieconn]

1 hour ago, Gary A said:

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

Total rubbish, 

A. You could have 100,000 baht income coming from abroad every month.

B. Health insurance, credit card etc etc.

 

Incidentally i have more than 800,000 baht in a savings account but still go with a Spouse's extension rather than an Retirement extension ! 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, Gary A said:

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

Good grief. I can easily live in LOS for a year for way less than 800,000 baht and have you never heard of insurance for medical?

 

When I was living with my wife it was costing me under 15,000 a month, and even Thai insurance was only 65,000 a year.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Gary A said:

 

Firstly, I am by no means wealthy, but I did plan my retirement carefully. My pensions have a healthy surplus every month. I am conservative and have no money in the stock market. My money back home is in an insured money market and the interest is basically nothing. I wire transfer funds once or twice a year to top up my Thai bank account.

 

No way did I retire to have to live like a church mouse and worry about where my next meal was coming from. I don't owe anyone any money and I pay no rent. I admit that it cost several million baht to get in this position but it was well worth it.

I admit that it cost several million baht to get in this position but it was well worth it.

Yet you claim not to be wealthy 5555555555555

It's not just about you. If other people wish to live frugally in LOS, that is their choice. Not everyone wants to live in a western ghetto and eat western food. Thais live on 9,000 a month, and some farangs are happy to do the same.

Edited May 26, 2017 by thaibeachlovers

[jeab1980]

I just love it when the if you havent got 800K you cant afford to live here card is played.

Total hogwash we live very comfortably  on 200k a year and have done for a good few years now. In fact for the last couple of years its been less than that. No scrimping not everyone wants steak every night or booze every night.

[Gary A]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Good grief. I can easily live in LOS for a year for way less than 800,000 baht and have you never heard of insurance for medical?

 

When I was living with my wife it was costing me under 15,000 a month, and even Thai insurance was only 65,000 a year.

 

Did I say I spent 800,000 baht a year? I don't. As far as insurance, I was priced out of that market. The premiums went way up and the maximum payout went down. They had promised me in writing that they would never cancel my policy because of age. They said nothing about changing the policy limits or raising my premiums. I have more of a nest egg than the maximum payout of the health insurance policy so I cancelled it. Try to get insurance at 72 years old. I cancelled the policy at 66 years old.

 

It does cost me considerably more than 15,000 baht per month, but I live exactly the way I want. We have a car and a pickup truck, two motorbikes and I have a condo in the farang ghetto. We live in my wife's house out in the boonies. I am content. I do it my way and you can do it your way.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Gary A

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, Gary A said:

 

Did I say I spent 800,000 baht a year? I don't. As far as insurance, I was priced out of that market. The premiums went way up and the maximum payout went down. They had promised me in writing that they would never cancel my policy because of age. They said nothing about changing the policy limits or raising my premiums. I have more of a nest egg than the maximum payout of the health insurance policy so I cancelled it. Try to get insurance at 72 years old. I cancelled the policy at 66 years old.

 

It does cost me considerably more than 15,000 baht per month, but I live exactly the way I want.

 

Your statement

Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways.

I interpret that as saying if one doesn't have 800,000 one shouldn't be living in LOS. I was pointing out that one doesn't need 800,000 to live in LOS.

 

I know about the insurance.

Sometimes life is unfair.

 

[Gary A]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

 

Your statement

Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways.

I interpret that as saying if one doesn't have 800,000 one shouldn't be living in LOS. I was pointing out that one doesn't need 800,000 to live in LOS.

 

I know about the insurance.

Sometimes life is unfair.

 

 

If I had a serious medical emergency, I wouldn't be comfortable with only 800,000 in the bank. I consider that as a bare minimum.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Gary A said:

 

If I had a serious medical emergency, I wouldn't be comfortable with only 800,000 in the bank. I consider that as a bare minimum.

If one is prepared to accept the final outcome in the event of something serious, no need for lots of cash.

If not, and can't afford insurance, then yes, can't afford to stay in LOS.

[jeab1980]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If one is prepared to accept the final outcome in the event of something serious, no need for lots of cash.

If not, and can't afford insurance, then yes, can't afford to stay in LOS.

Goverment hospitals are fairly well priced a lot less than these private rip of hospitals. Example true fact as it was me, hernia op Ram/bangkok hospitals quoted 60k and 65k respectively. Trip to local hospital registered and talked to surgeon quoted 25k  actual cost 23k own room ok food was bland but mrs stayed with me for the 2 nights i was in so she went off and got other food. Room was clean and nurses were exellent as was surgeon.

[rickudon]

With any extension, what you will actually be asked for and accepted can vary slightly from Office to Office. And, as said, Immigration officers will tend to interpret rules to the letter of what there boss tells them - initiative is not encouraged (unless a tip is likely!). My experience is that sometimes a photograph is judged as not quite right or a photocopy is not good enough, which can mean another visit. As what they want photocopied varies i no longer do much, just let them do it and give them a small tip. There own photocopying is always acceptable ......   A small tip is not an issue, if an extra service is provided. An out and out bribe is not.

 

As to swapping to a Retirement extension, there are reasons why not to. I do not like the idea of tying up large sums of money at low interest, I can still get better rates elsewhere. Secondly, if the rules where to change and due to the exchange rates going down, you may no longer qualify for the retirement extension and swapping back may not be so easy. I have been on marriage because while not getting UK State pension i didn't have an income of 65,000 baht a month. Now i get state pension but due to Brexit my income is about 66,000 baht a month - any exchange rate fluctuation could make next renewal if on retirement problematical. 

 

 

[Stargeezr]

My  reason for being upset with the Thailand asutorities, happened several yeas ago when a friend of mine married a Thai woman.

The woman and her sister went to the Canadian Embassy in Bangkok to get a stamp from the Canadian official in charge there. For three days

they were turned away by the Thai lady who was manning the front desk, as she would not let them see the Canadian official.

  On the fourth day her Canadian husband and I went with them. I stated that I was a business manager and had to ask the

Canadian official a question thankfully, I still had a Government of Canada badge for security with me and showed her the card. When the

official showed up I apologized for lying to get him to the front, but he seen all of us and took care of the matter in 5 minutes.

  He stated that some Thai people working in Immigration and the Embassys sometimes liked to throw their level of power around,

and I believe this still happens today.  I have heard many stories of people both Thais and expats having troubles at government offices.

  I guess some people are lucky to get the good quality people and not some of the others who just work and throw their weight around.

[Gary A]

I'm certainly not defending Thai immigration. I had my 800,000 baht in an account that was paying decent interest. I didn't do that before asking immigration if that was acceptable. That account allowed me to withdraw the money at any time I chose but there would be a an interest penalty. As I said that was acceptable and immigration had no problem with it. THEN, Loei immigration got a new boss. All of a sudden my bank account was not acceptable. I wasn't happy with that but I said that I would change it to an acceptable account the very next day. That wasn't acceptable either because it had to be seasoned for three months. I was told that I would have to leave the country and reapply when the funds in the new account were seasoned. This immigration office is in Loei province. I went to the Pattaya immigration and asked some questions. I was told there that it was up to the new Loei boss, but that I could go get an income letter that she would have to accept. I got the income letter and the new boss lady at Loei was surprised that I didn't leave the country and it was obvious that she resented the income letter but she did accept it. I was then fined a thousand baht for a two day overstay. Rules are rules, but it would be much easier to swallow if all the rules were the same.

[Tofer]

On 26 May 2017 at 8:54 AM, Gary A said:

I really don't see the problem with having 800,000 baht in a saving account. Quite frankly, if you don't have 800,000 baht, you can't afford to live here anyways. That money should be used to live on until it needs to be topped up for your next extension, so it is not dead money. How would you deal with a medical emergency if you don't have that money in a savings account?

Rather a simplistic view. Some of us would like to leave our money where it is until really needed. I'm sure you're aware of the lousy exchange rates at the moment for Stirling. There's a big difference between 800k and 400k. Ever heard of other sources of income and medical insurance?

[Tofer]

On 25 May 2017 at 9:31 PM, elviajero said:

Let me spell it out. You don't need to, and are not going to be forced to, tie up 800K. BUT if you do voluntarily have 800K+ in your bank it is perfectly reasonable, and to your benefit, that the IO processes the application based on 'retirement' and issues the extension on the spot.

So it's perfectly reasonable to expect me to transfer copious sums of money that may or may not be needed just because IO cannot be bothered to do the job properly. As I said before, when I turn up with only 400k and they come up with some other spurious reason to reject my ME who's paying for the trip to KL for a new non-O?

 

Perhaps I need to be as devious as they are and carry a second bank book with an additional 400k just in case.

 

What, pray tell, is the problem with issuing / displaying a definitive list of requirements? I think I know....

 

Like some other contributors have noted my IO is not just around the corner, it's a whole day trip to find out if I've got it right. 

 

You seem to have a problem with people complaining about not getting what they ask for and are entitled to by the rules of Immigration. If you were told you had to buy a Lexus instead of the pick up you wanted just because you had the money available, would you be happy?

[Tofer]

On 26 May 2017 at 3:06 AM, burner2014 said:

Same thing happend to me this week.  But we had to bring a filled out form (by the witness) and the ID Card Copies including Signatures. 

-> I guess a measurement for all the fake marriages in Thailand?

But I really don't understand that as the Amphore needed already 2 Witnesses for the Marriage.  + we submitted an updated KOR2 Form from the same day.

Before that we had to fill out 6 double pages of forms... (extra to the normal stuff).  Getting really more paperwork :)  

 

Lastly they wanna check our home as well. Happy to invite them.

 

----

 

Not complaining I just think that it would be great if there would be an OPEN Communication what Changes will be applied throughout a YEAR. An updated Checklist would be awesome, but a dream I guess. Next time I will drive to the Immigration first and get all papers and drive another day back again.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Good luck with next time. I tried that TWICE, but to no avail. Be prepared!

[Tofer]

On 26 May 2017 at 9:40 AM, Ace of Pop said:

Oh what a fuss.Retirement Visa is not for me ,been married here for 25years .Now then ,even I can work out if Iwasnt married I'd need a retirement ext for 800k,same yearly cost,to get it stamped on the Spot .400 K in the Bank n they send it round Thailand , some one looks at it ,sends it back , and. Then it's O.K.Recon they know The Unwed Guys ain't been payin out as much..Kindness and Luck play I Big part of having 800K rotting away at Lo interest,I know many who find it hard, they just been toooo kind really. I just hate the Form Filling n dumb pics,25 years Of same same paper shredded for nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

Quite. I bet there would be some major complaining if your Thai wives had to go through this ridiculous process to stay in UK....

[Tofer]

18 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Goverment hospitals are fairly well priced a lot less than these private rip of hospitals. Example true fact as it was me, hernia op Ram/bangkok hospitals quoted 60k and 65k respectively. Trip to local hospital registered and talked to surgeon quoted 25k  actual cost 23k own room ok food was bland but mrs stayed with me for the 2 nights i was in so she went off and got other food. Room was clean and nurses were exellent as was surgeon.

Wow, you were lucky, where's your local hospital, I'm moving. 

 

I spent 2 days in our local hospital with supposed critical dengue fever, it was dirty, downright uncomfortable, staff were too busy playing/ chatting to bother, no food provided - my wife had to bring meals in every day and a mattress fit to sleep on, visitors so noisy in middle of night I had to, God forbid, complain.

 

Overcharged horrendously for being a farang, my wife blew a gasket and left them mouths agog, when she asked them if  they found I had 4 arms and legs to justify the quadruple charges. I discharged myself early when I realised all I was getting was blood & pressure tested 4 times a day, paracetamol and bottled water, and no actual care. Sorry they did stick a drip in my hand which is the only thing I couldn't get more comfortably at home.