Iconic American Harley Davidson Motorcycles to be Made in Thailand

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, macksview said:

harley will be hard up competing with lifan engines in the samlor market.

 

Just as likely they'll be contracting Lifan to make the engines for their Thai built bikes.

 

One of the things I learned in 10 years of sourcing in China is that you don't really have to manufacture anything to be in a given market.  You do the design (often by reverse engineering) and contract all the manufacturing to others.  Perfect example is Apple, who really make...nothing.

 

Literally, I could be in the scooter business by farming out the frames, the engines, the wheels and tires, and everything else- then have another company assemble it all.  All I'd need is a distribution network (again- others) and a warehouse (could farm out the warehousing, too) to store the inventory.  

 

Oh, and deep pockets to start it all up and do some advertising...  Deeper than mine, anyway.

[Bill Miller]

2 hours ago, ezzra said:

There's another icon that has gone to the dogs and  cheap labor,

gone is the pride, heritage and good al American made hogs...

what happened to Trump promises to keep US  manufacturing in the

US? gone to dogs as well I guess...

Guess you just did not read the article, eh?
It states that the Thai product would be sold only in Asia, and that US manufacturing would remain the same.
"Quis custodiet  quae non legitur"

 

[impulse]

Just now, Bill Miller said:

Guess you just did not read the article, eh?
It states that the Thai product would be sold only in Asia, and that US manufacturing would remain the same.
"Quis custodiet  quae non legitur"

 

Even if he did read the article- who's assembling the bikes currently sold into Thailand?  What do you figure they'll do when they no longer have to assemble scooters for Asia?

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, mok199 said:

 ''made in Thailand ''models will sell for thousands less than the American made, this is to market a cheaper line to the poorer buyer ,as did fender guitars ,with the made in japan, korea and mexico models...these bike will always be know as '''Thailand harleys''..it will only increase the value of the true American models...

I've got a Made in Japan Fender Squire strat from 1983 which is worth a great deal now.

 

[Berkshire]

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

i used to work at HDMC, 3 years, their bikes leak oil right off the assembly line; NOT high grade stuff;

55555....funny.  I used to know a devoted Harley rider back in the US and he said he needed to own two.  One to ride and one for spare parts.  Maybe the Thais can actually improve on quality.

[Mattd]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Given the horrible import tax on Harleys in Thailand currently, making them locally should have a very substantial impact on reducing the price.

Not necessarily, it will depend on where they locate the facility, if it is in a duty free zone, then they will only be allowed to export, no local sales of the locally assembled ones, I believe Triumph are this way?

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, macksview said:

harley will be hard up competing with lifan engines in the samlor market.

...but they'll sound awesome.

[NanLaew]

HD have woken up.

 

Triumph and Ducati have been assembling and selling real motorbikes profitably in Thailand for years.

 

I can think of no more iconic an American product going abroad... has POTUS signed off on this one already? Who can forget the pre-election cow he had over Ford, GE and others re-allocating their products for Mexican assembly.

[ben2talk]

2 hours ago, bheard said:

Sales declining in the US.
The company should take a good look at their product range therefore.
Maybe Americans are wising up to the fact that there are much better bikes out there. .

You don't think 89bhp is enough for a 1/2 ton machine with a 750cc engine?

 

There was a time when I kind of understood the idea of a motor designed for easy torque... then I encountered a bike and found out that the weight on the sidestand is more than a Suzuki has on it's front wheel! We're talking 170kg for a very solid, safe, competent cruiser putting out 180bhp versus 350kg for a Harley with just over 100bhp.

 

They can only ever sell these things as 'American Heritage' pieces, nobody actually buys them for transport. Same applies to most of their cars... we just buy good Japanese or German brands - they prefer boats on wheels.

[CLUBBER]

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

i used to work at HDMC, 3 years, their bikes leak oil right off the assembly line; NOT high grade stuff;

Not sure about when you worked at Harley but I have owned three evo Harley's an 89 sportster 883 then a 92 lowrider and finally a 04 heritage Softail classic not one of these bikes leaked a drop of oil nor gave me any problems ever , love the evos even driving miles in a heavy rain once my FLSTN performed fg flawlessly just that beautiful V twin humming while my friend Yamaha sputtered several times ! Older Harley's leaked oil like many older bikes not the evos . Photo is of my FLSTN back in Brooklyn NY and my , at that time 76 year old Dad taking her out for a ride :))) No helmet of course he said that day I survived the Japanese in the Philippines I can survive a ride around the neighborhood !

[twizzian]

Are they still an unreliable overpriced bike with plenty of breakdowns, or has that been improved on these days?

Just curious.

I remember the British Triumph were troublesome bikes back in the day.

[Bill Miller]

18 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Even if he did read the article- who's assembling the bikes currently sold into Thailand?  What do you figure they'll do when they no longer have to assemble scooters for Asia?

How large a percentage of their gross annual sales are made to Asia? I do not think it is a huge amount, and will barely impact the US production. 
I do not know many Thai people who would plunk down half a million for one. Maybe I am wrong, but most of the expats I see who would be riding hogs in the US are riding "other" here. A 900cc Kaw Vulcan, for instance can be had for roughly 1/2 the price.
The "Rice Burner"  tag just doesn't seem to cut as hard over here. 
I would like another Beemer myself, on days when nostalgia outweighs survival considerations.

Oops! I take that back. It seems Harley's Asia ventures have been good for the bottom line, to compensate for market share loss domestically.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bill Miller

[impulse]

27 minutes ago, StevieAus said:

According to the article they are for sale in Asia if manufactured in the US and shipped here they would face a huge import tax the same as other vehicles and therefore sales would be minimal 

 

They're a niche product with a narrow target demographic.  Even made locally, they're still going to be an order of magnitude more expensive than a Scoopy, so I wouldn't expect to see the market explode.  

 

The benefit would be cheaper manufacturing labor and reduced import fees, resulting in more profit per unit.  Unless they develop a new low end product for the Asian market.

 

[johnarth]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

And that's why i'm not happy with this. More harleys in Thailand means much more noise along the roads.....no fun.

man apparently you haven't heard the noise the new big jap bikes make, they leave the harley for dead, even from 50m away they split your ears, very piercing.  

[impulse]

1 minute ago, Bill Miller said:

How large a percentage of their gross annual sales are made to Asia? I do not think it is a huge amount, and will barely impact the US production. 

 

I agree that the impact would be minimal, but I've seen enough roaming the streets of Thailand and China to believe that some US jobs will be affected.  Building them in Asia for the Asian market is not as egregious as building them in Mexico of the US market, but it's a slippery slope.  

 

I could see some of the components currently being made in Milwaukee (for example) by their US suppliers being displaced by new sources they'll have to develop to feed their Thailand manufacturing facility, so it's not just about HD employees. There's a long supply chain that's going to be impacted- and they won't make the news.

 

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, johnarth said:

man apparently you haven't heard the noise the new big jap bikes make, they leave the harley for dead, even from 50m away they split your ears, very piercing.  

 

But they don't come from the factory that way...  Harleys do.

 

[Lingba]

well so much for calling them iconic anymore

[Happyman58]

Only reason Harley will make bikes here WAGES workers on assembly line paid 300 baht  No super No holiday pay No sickness benefits NO NOTHING Goodbye american workers Ride off into the the sun soon you will have no job Sad part of life 

[misterphil]

Lets hope they build them better than they build Fords. 

[Bill Miller]

9 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

I agree that the impact would be minimal, but I've seen enough roaming the streets of Thailand and China to believe that some US jobs will be affected.  Building them in Asia for the Asian market is not as egregious as building them in Mexico of the US market, but it's a slippery slope.  

 

I could see some of the components currently being made in Milwaukee (for example) by their US suppliers being displaced by new sources they'll have to develop to feed their Thailand manufacturing facility, so it's not just about HD employees. There's a long supply chain that's going to be impacted- and they won't make the news.

 

Maybe so, Impulse. The dollar signs will show the way.

I had done a bit more checking, and found that Asia is a much bigger player in the Harley market than I had supposed.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bill Miller
Wrong name!

[Chris Lawrence]

........and paying lower taxes, while enjoying the low wage they pay the worker in the new country. Governments want to attack the low income on welfare benefits but won't go after the recalcitrant big business boys snubbing their noses at their obligations to the country and its workers that made them strong.

[impulse]

Just now, Bill Miller said:

Maybe so, Mike. The dollar signs will show the way.

I had done a bit more checking, and found that Asia is a much bigger player in the Harley market than I had supposed.

 

They recently opened up a big dealership near my apartment in China.  Strangely, in a city where 2 wheelers are banned inside the outer loop.  In fact, it's illegal (though tolerated) to do a test ride where the dealership is located.  We're just inside the outer loop.  But if they ride into town, it's bye-bye to their prized baby.  The police will load it onto a truck and the owner won't see it again.  Unless he's a government official.  They get a pass.

 

 

 

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Given the horrible import tax on Harleys in Thailand currently, making them locally should have a very substantial impact on reducing the price.

Can someone explain why it is OK for Thailand to tax imported products at insanely high levels, but if Trump talks about increasing taxes on imported items it will start a trade war? So free trade only works if you are importing into the USA? How do we get out of this "good deal"?

 

What is good for the goose ought to be good for the gander, right?

[Happyman58]

2 minutes ago, Chris Lawrence said:

........and paying lower taxes, while enjoying the low wage they pay the worker in the new country. Governments want to attack the low income on welfare benefits but won't go after the recalcitrant big business boys snubbing their noses at their obligations to the country and its workers that made them strong.

No the image of a cartoon in america of a big fat boss smoking his cigar looking at money sticks in my mind Think back when the car industry went downhill The government stepped in to help The big bosses of these car companies like G/M Ford all flew to New York in their own private company jets just showing everyone how tough it was in the car industry Tough for the workers not for them

[phuketkenny]

2 hours ago, grumbleweed said:

What I've seen of these things here is that they're used as treatment for "Little Dick Syndrome"

Anti social to say the least "I have an inferiority complex but my machine is louder than yours"

Could I ask, do you ride? Have you ever been on a REAL bike? Your comment reflects a total lack of understanding of history, technology evolution and artisanship. And it lends itself to insults I'm sure you would never vocalize in a group of REAL Harley owners, but easy to slur hidden behind a keyboard. 

[jvs]

2 hours ago, YetAnother said:

i used to work at HDMC, 3 years, their bikes leak oil right off the assembly line; NOT high grade stuff;

Harleys do not leak,they mark their territory!

[phuketkenny]

1 hour ago, fruitman said:

And that's why i'm not happy with this. More harleys in Thailand means much more noise along the roads.....no fun.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So is sound. Think about it.

[GAZZPA]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

There's another icon that has gone to the dogs and  cheap labor,

gone is the pride, heritage and good al American made hogs...

what happened to Trump promises to keep US  manufacturing in the

US? gone to dogs as well I guess...

It's not the case, HD are simply doing what they need to as the US consumer gets poorer and luxury cruiser bike sales fall in the local market. The reality is that the West will become poorer and the East will continue to get richer, this is the future for our kids. The West needs to wise up and realise the simple fact that manufacturing means prosperity and middle incomes. This is why China is the new powerhouse economy and the US is sliding. 

 

Asian countries are frankly smarter, punish foreign imports with horrible duty rates, incentivise local investment for foreign factories. Whereas the West have still got their heads up their asses where they implement GSP for "assisting" poorer countries with reduced import duties into the West. All under the guise that it is their "duty" to support them growing out of poverty. It all sounds wonderful except there is no reciprocation from the poorer countries, no incentives for Western companies to import their products taking advantage of the growing markets.

 

The results are already clear for all to see. A huge decline in manufacturing in the West, a huge increase in manufacturing in the East. loss of Western jobs, loss of middle incomes with nothing to replace them. Trump talks about bringing Western manufacturing jobs back but how?

 

Are consumers going to accept increases in prices as Western manufacturers start to manufacture again? Absolutely not. The consumers are also responsible, we all want goods to be cheaper which means manufacturing in cheaper countries. Basically the West wants it all, cheaper products and healthy economy, well it just doesn't add up.

 

The reality of the World today is it is out of balance. The West needs to start looking after itself and let the East do the same. If American manufacturing jobs are to return then US companies either need to pay lower salaries to compete (which is not going to happen) or restrict cheap imports, there is no other logical way.

 

For now China is quite simply the Worlds factory and the Asean is growing. Don't see any change in the tide in the near future. I look forward to seeing the Harley Davidson "LOS" special edition.

 

 

[stutz]

Ah!.Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper on their made in Thailand Harley choppers ...What an  un American thought. Hopefully will drop the prices in half..Haha..! Doubt that. 

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, phuketkenny said:

And it lends itself to insults I'm sure you would never vocalize in a group of REAL Harley owners, but easy to slur hidden behind a keyboard. 

 

Perhaps veiled threats of violence aren't a great reflection on HD owners?  I've gotten into great, salacious, emotional (and fun) debates over the relative merits of Chevy's and Fords and never once been threatened.  Seems that may not be possible with some subset of HD owners, and that says a lot about them.  Not all HD owners, mind you.  

Edited May 25, 2017 by impulse