Dozens of aboriginal Australians walk out of meeting at Uluru in dispute over recognition

[webfact]

Dozens of aboriginal Australians walk out of meeting at Uluru in dispute over recognition

REUTERS

 

Local performers dance during the opening ceremony for the National Indigenous Constitutional Convention, a three day conference designed to come up with a consensus response on how indigenous people should be recognised in Australia's constitution, at Mutitjulu near Uluru in central Australia, May 23, 2017. AAP/Lucy Hughes Jones/via REUTERS

 

SYDNEY (Reuters) - Dozens of Australian indigenous leaders walked out of a national meeting on Thursday in protest against a plan to accept constitutional recognition, indigenous leader Geoff Clark told Reuters.

 

Some 250 Aboriginal Australian leaders are meeting this week at the sacred landmark of Uluru to decide how the country's first inhabitants, who date back about 50,000 years before British colonisers arrived, should be recognised.

 

Clark said an emerging majority support for constitutional recognition had prompted about 50 to leave in protest. Some leaders want a treaty with the government rather than constitutional change.

 

There are about 700,000 Aborigines in a population of 23 million but they suffer disproportionately high rates of suicide, alcohol abuse, domestic violence and imprisonment, tracking near the bottom in almost every economic and social indicator.

 

Constitutional recognition of Aborigines is a complex issue in a country which previously administered its indigenous people under flora and fauna laws.

 

(Reporting by Colin Packham; Editing by Nick Macfie)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-05-25

[Andaman Al]

17 minutes ago, webfact said:

Dozens of aboriginal Australians walk out of meeting at Uluru in dispute over recognition

.......... but government organisers did not know who they were     

 

Until Australia do something profound to give these people their dignity back in exchange for their land and culture that was taken, this problem will persist. I don't know what the solution is, but if it is to be effective it will likely cost a huge amount of money, and Australia has the natural resources to do it.

[Bangna Betty]

A walkout achieves nothing. And everyone will have to compromise. It is far too late for a treaty - but constitutional recognition is possible.  And in a practical sense what do Aborigines really want? Nothing has really worked very well so far, even after decades of provision of benefits, housing and medical programmes, youth programmes. It is such a very difficult situation and really needs the buy in of both indiginous and mainstream communities to work together. 

[steven100]

Ok ....  walk out ... that's fine, it'll just put the idea off for another 5 yrs.

What do aborigines want from the government .....  they have been given so much assistance over the past 30-50 years and it's a continuous echo of complaining year after year.

I think we have been quite generous in providing all areas of support, jobs, welfare. housing, food and many other opportunities .....   along with millions of dollars ...

It's about time the aborigine's started to show some appreciation for help provided .........   but I think hell will freeze over first.

Edited May 25, 2017 by steven100

[Andaman Al]

9 minutes ago, steven100 said:

I think we have been quite generous in providing all areas of support, jobs, welfare. housing, food and many other opportunities .....   along with millions of dollars ...

It's about time the aborigine's started to show some appreciation for help provided .........   but I think hell will freeze over first.

'Quite generous' - really? Destroy their culture, take their land and give them dollars when for 50 000 years they were happy and never needed dollars.

 

11 minutes ago, steven100 said:

What do aborigines want from the government .....  they have been given so much assistance over the past 30-50 years and it's a continuous echo of complaining year after year.

Perhaps the first step is for white Australians to realise and truly understand what was taken from the Aborigines  and to stop treating them with disdain. The prejudice in Australia is still rampant in parts and is equally as entrenched as the prejudice in the USA against blacks.

 

Pick any man in the street in any country that has a proud and efficient way of life. Take away his land and home and property, take away his means of feeding and supporting his family, take away his right to do anything or freely move around the country he has always lived in, enslave many of his people to do meagre work and disrespect the spiritual beliefs he may have had since time immemorial and I guarantee that in the time that man has left, sitting on his ass doing nothing all day he will take to the bottle and drink himself stupid so he can forget all he has lost. That is what we started 200 years ago and now you expect a whole race of people to respond in 30 years because we throw dollars at them and there is no immediate response. It shows one of the main problems that you and maybe others suffer from when trying to find a solution - you do not understand them, you do not understand what they had and what was taken from them, and that is not a criticism, it is just a fact. I am the same, how can I possibly truly understand their situation, I have never been remotely close to being in their situation. Just sayin. 

[halloween]

The last thing they need is advice from American bleeding heart liberals. I have 3 aboriginal grand-daughters, being raised with 2 very different cultures. They don't need animism (or any other religion for that matter), or taught a language spoken by 7 other people.

 

But they're not planning on being 'professional' aboriginals.

Edited May 25, 2017 by halloween

[impulse]

1 hour ago, Andaman Al said:

It shows one of the main problems that you and maybe others suffer from when trying to find a solution - you do not understand them, you do not understand what they had and what was taken from them, and that is not a criticism,

 

Around 100 years ago, my grandparents got driven off their turnip patch outside of Kiev and showed up on Ellis Island without a pot to pee in.

 

I'm grateful that they were too culturally oblivious to pine over what they had lost and instead they embraced what was on offer in their new surroundings.   3 generations later, our kids are 100% college educated professionals with great jobs, great houses and kids of their own with bright futures.

 

God only knows where we'd all be had they fought with Stalin to get their turnip patch back.  Even if they had won...  We'd all be dirt poor turnip farmers.

 

The victim card is only valid IMO for a generation or two.   Then it's time to face reality and move forward, accepting the world as it is today, not as it was in distant, faded memories.

 

That's not to say what happened wasn't shameful, or that they don't still face discrimination.  But what's focusing on that getting them?  (Unless, like our native Americans, they get to open casinos and prey on the vices of others to make a buck)

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by impulse

[onthesoi]

11 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Around 100 years ago, my grandparents got driven off their turnip patch outside of Kiev and showed up on Ellis Island without a pot to pee in.

 

I'm grateful that they were too culturally oblivious to pine over what they had lost and instead they embraced what was on offer in their new surroundings.   3 generations later, our kids are 100% college educated professionals with great jobs, great houses and kids of their own with bright futures.

 

God only knows where we'd all be had they fought with Stalin to get their turnip patch back.  Even if they had won...  We'd all be dirt poor turnip farmers.

 

The victim card is only valid IMO for a generation or two.   Then it's time to face reality and move forward, accepting the world as it is today, not as it was in distant, faded memories.

 

That's not to say what happened wasn't shameful, or that they don't still face discrimination.  But what's focusing on that getting them?  (Unless, like our native Americans, they get to open casinos and prey on the vices of others to make a buck)

 

So where is the 2017 equivalent of Ellis Island where the Abos can show up, start a new life and prosper?

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

So where is the 2017 equivalent of Ellis Island where the Abos can show up, start a new life and prosper?

 

Sydney Harbor has everything for them today that Ellis Island had for my penniless grandparents in 2013.

 

They settled in Chicago.  It's not as if they blazed a trail and found virgin lands just waiting for a turnip farmer to come along.  He was a window washer, BTW.

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by impulse

[ljd1308]

3 hours ago, onthesoi said:

 

Right... & the white aussies are going to accept a mass exodus of abos to Sydney Harbour taking their jobs and living next door?

 

Somehow I feel your solution is naive and unrealistic.

Well the "abos" had to put up with white Europeans coming and literally doing that exact same thing...but the people you actually mean are Koori.

 

[impulse]

14 minutes ago, ljd1308 said:

You do realise Aboriginals lived on and around Sydney Harbour until Europeans came and took their land?

 

And you do realise being a white immigrant to a country is different to being a native person who has had their entire history stolen?

 

I think you should make a note of these things rather than continue to compare apples and the writing of the poet William Blake.

 

So, they'll keep on playing the victim card for another few generations, because it absolves them of the responsibility for their own actions when what they're doing doesn't work?

 

Great plan.  Albert Einstein had a name for that.

 

They got robbed.  (actually, their great-great grandparents got robbed, but that seems to be lost on many)  It was wrong.  It was despicable.  But that can't be undone.

 

I'd suggest they look at who (around the world- not just on Oz) is thriving economically and emulate them.  And that means getting an education that prepares them for life in the 21st century, not a life in a world that doesn't exist any more.

 

[halloween]

Every Australian born in the country has as much right to the country and its history as any other. I call your claim to ownership, because some far distant in time relative lived there before colonisation, nothing but BS. There are plenty of aboriginals who have gotten over this victimisation fed to them by bleeding hearts, and made a success of their lives. There is plenty of assistance available to help aboriginals get educated, find work and own a home, moaning about the injustices of the distant past won't.

[ljd1308]

Just now, impulse said:

 

So, they'll keep on playing the victim card for another few generations, because it absolves them of the responsibility for their own actions when what they're doing doesn't work?

 

Great plan.  Albert Einstein had a name for that.

 

They got robbed.  (actually, their great-great grandparents got robbed, but that seems to be lost on many)  It was wrong.  It was despicable.  But that can't be undone.

 

I'd suggest they look at who (around the world- not just on Oz) is thriving economically and emulate them.  And that means getting an education that prepares them for life in the 21st century, not a life in a world that doesn't exist any more.

 

Mate, before commenting anymore maybe you should look into the history(including very recent history) of Aboriginal people in Australia.

 

For example, my mother was part of the stolen generation. Given you refer to "great-great grandparents" I assume you have no idea what that is? Like I said, do some research before going off about something for which you have no knowledge.

 

FYI - My great-great grandparents were not born in the 60's.....actually, they may have been, I don't actually know because my mother was stolen away from them. I am just guessing because my mother was born around 1950...again, don't actually know because she was taken from her family.

[onthesoi]

2 minutes ago, halloween said:

Every Australian born in the country has as much right to the country and its history as any other.

 

If only that were true....

[ljd1308]

FYI:

 

This cannot be over-emphasized—the Australian government literally kidnapped these children from their parents as a matter of policy. White welfare officers, often supported by police, would descend on Aboriginal camps, round up all the children, separate the ones with light-coloured skin, bundle them into trucks and take them away. If their parents protested they were held at bay by police.^[38]

[Los Luver]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

There are about 700,000 Aborigines in a population of 23 million but they suffer disproportionately high rates of suicide, alcohol abuse, domestic violence and imprisonment, tracking near the bottom in almost every economic and social indicator.

There is nothing worst than to be discriminated in one's own land !!!!

They are The Australians  and are treated like the third category citizens !!!!

700000 ? That's whats left ?????

The forgotten Apartheid. Likewise in New Zealand !!!

[thaihome]

Stop & Think... Have you ever struggled with being unaccepted?

• Imagine having the people in authority over you automatically assume you are inferior based on something you have no ability to change.
• What would it feel like to be encouraged to be like the majority culture around you, but then be denied the rights and opportunities to do so? 
• http://www.australianstogether.org.au/stories/detail/assimilation

[impulse]

30 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

And Native Americans are the only ones that get to prey on the vices of others? We didn't leave them many other ways to make a living on their own land did we? "Oh I know lets sell Bison, oh bummer the white men killed them all, lets stay on our land and hunt for food, oops we can't feed ourselves we have to buy produce at the super markets, the laws and lobbyists say so. Oh the Government have just given us tax exemptions to open casinos so we can raise money for ourselves and thus minimise Government contributions to us for everything that was stolen - Fair enough". 

 

So why exactly can't they run casinos and profit share without you making it out as if they are the despicable ones? It seems sweet justice to me, Native Americans taking as much as they can from the overweight gullible addicted descendants of the people that took everything from the Native Americans. I hope some of them use their houses, car and land as collateral - and lose.

 

Aboriginals lived on land that was simply taken off them which now have some of the richest mineral deposits in the world. One gross Australian woman has become one of the richest in the world by exploiting the mineral assets on those lands. Now if YOU were one of those Aboriginals you would have good cause to feel pissed off. The land was worth a bit more than a turnip patch.

 

Australia is the world's leading producer of rutile, zircon, bauxite, iron ore and ilmenite, the second largest producer of alumina, gold, lithium, manganese ore, lead and zinc, the third largest producer of uranium, and the fourth largest of silver, nickel and black coal and then there is opal etc etc. If you had all that stolen off you, I would cut you as much slack as you wished to feel you were the victim

 

1835 – the Proclamation of Governor Bourke, issued by the Colonial Office and sent to the Governor with Despatch 99 of 10 October 1835, implements the doctrine of terra nullius upon which British settlement was based. Reinforcing the British assertion that the land belonged to no one prior to the British Crown taking possession of it, it effectively quashes pre-existing treaties with Aboriginal peoples (e.g. that signed by John Batman). Its publication in the Colony means that from then on, all people found occupying land without the authority of the government would be considered illegal trespassers. Aboriginal people therefore could not sell or assign the land, nor could an individual person acquire it, other than through distribution by the Crown.

 

Source:  Wikipedia

 

Every bit of land was stolen from them by 1835.  That's 182 years ago.   It was wrong.  But nobody alive today (in fact, nobody alive for the past 100 years) had anything to do with it.  It's like 1000 other patches of land around the world, Europe and North America included, that have changed hands under threat or use of violence.  It's not going back to the way it was.  Sucks, but it's just not.

 

It's time for them to move on and take some action to build their lives in this world, in this century.  Just like the Eastern Europeans driven off their land a dozen times in the past 100 years.  They seem to have gotten past it. (With some notable exceptions like the Former Yugoslavia)

 

Edited May 25, 2017 by impulse

[Andaman Al]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

1835 – the Proclamation of Governor Bourke, issued by the Colonial Office and sent to the Governor with Despatch 99 of 10 October 1835, implements the doctrine of terra nullius upon which British settlement was based. Reinforcing the British assertion that the land belonged to no one prior to the British Crown taking possession of it, it effectively quashes pre-existing treaties with Aboriginal peoples (e.g. that signed by John Batman). Its publication in the Colony means that from then on, all people found occupying land without the authority of the government would be considered illegal trespassers. Aboriginal people therefore could not sell or assign the land, nor could an individual person acquire it, other than through distribution by the Crown.

 

Source:  Wikipedia

 

Every bit of land was stolen from them by 1835.  That's 182 years ago.   It was wrong.  But nobody alive today (in fact, nobody alive for the past 100 years) had anything to do with it.  It's like 1000 other patches of land around the world, Europe and North America included, that have changed hands under threat or use of violence.  It's not going back to the way it was.  Sucks, but it's just not.

 

It's time for them to move on and take some action to build their lives in this world, in this century.  Just like the Eastern Europeans driven off their land a dozen times in the past 100 years.  They seem to have gotten past it.

 

Can you pop over to the Middle East Peace talks? There is a country there trying to claim back as much land as possible saying it is theirs and was taken off them 2000 years ago.

 

Quote

It's like 1000 other patches of land around the world, Europe and North America included, that have changed hands under threat or use of violence.  It's not going back to the way it was.  Sucks, but it's just not.

 

[ljd1308]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

1835 – the Proclamation of Governor Bourke, issued by the Colonial Office and sent to the Governor with Despatch 99 of 10 October 1835, implements the doctrine of terra nullius upon which British settlement was based. Reinforcing the British assertion that the land belonged to no one prior to the British Crown taking possession of it, it effectively quashes pre-existing treaties with Aboriginal peoples (e.g. that signed by John Batman). Its publication in the Colony means that from then on, all people found occupying land without the authority of the government would be considered illegal trespassers. Aboriginal people therefore could not sell or assign the land, nor could an individual person acquire it, other than through distribution by the Crown.

 

Source:  Wikipedia

 

Every bit of land was stolen from them by 1835.  That's 182 years ago.   It was wrong.  But nobody alive today (in fact, nobody alive for the past 100 years) had anything to do with it.  It's like 1000 other patches of land around the world, Europe and North America included, that have changed hands under threat or use of violence.  It's not going back to the way it was.  Sucks, but it's just not.

 

It's time for them to move on and take some action to build their lives in this world, in this century.  Just like the Eastern Europeans driven off their land a dozen times in the past 100 years.  They seem to have gotten past it.

 

Seriously, do some research...please for your own sake.

 

What do you class the recent closures of Aboriginal communities by the Australian government as? Something they have done to force them to move and change their way of life.....do you class that as taking their land and culture?

 

Maybe not, maybe so...I guess you had no idea that was still going on?

 

http://greens.org.au/magazine/wa/aboriginal-communities-are-still-threatened-closure

 

But it is ok, keep being wrong. You seem good at it.

[thaihome]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

...

 

It's time for them to move on and take some action to build their lives in this world, in this century.  Just like the Eastern Europeans driven off their land a dozen times in the past 100 years.  They seem to have gotten past it. (With some notable exceptions like the Former Yugoslavia)

 

Yeah, why don't they just buck up and get over it. What are they, a bunch of black booris?

 http://www.rsdb.org/race/australian_aboriginals

 

It's a bit more complicated then you wish to make it out. Please read the links posted it what one hopes is not a vain attempt to educate you.

TH 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts with inflammatory, racially tinged posts and replies have been removed.  

[giddyup]

13 hours ago, onthesoi said:

So where is the 2017 equivalent of Ellis Island where the Abos can show up, start a new life and prosper?

They are already there. You can lead a horse to water etc.

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup

[RigPig]

Have they discovered the wheel yet, they  never did in 50.000 years, that's gotta be a record...

 

But seriously it's not going to go backward "This is what you've got. make it work" just like the rest of us!  Some have and have done well but many.....

[giddyup]

30 minutes ago, RigPig said:

Have they discovered the wheel yet, they  never did in 50.000 years, that's gotta be a record...

 

But seriously it's not going to go backward "This is what you've got. make it work" just like the rest of us!  Some have and have done well but many.....

Have they discovered the wheel yet, they  never did in 50.000 years, that's gotta be a record...

 

Neither did the Aztecs, Mayans etc. Rather, they knew of it but never used it. However, those civilisations were far in advance of what aborigines ever accomplished.

 

Edited May 26, 2017 by giddyup

[tigermoth]

The Indigineous population of Australia should have no different status than any other civilian. Australia is a huge country and is large enough for all people. The USA, of similar size, has well in excess of 200m people. Of course this is helped by a large river running through the centre of the country whereas Australia does not. In todays technology advances much more of Australia could be irrigated. Many years ago a vast irrigation scheme was finished in the north of Australia which now enables the growing of rice and other food.

 

There are many indiginous people of Australia in meaningful occupations, doctors, lawyers, teachers etc., etc. Many indiginous people live on so called 'reservations' and have no wish to leave as these lands are part of their religion. I have done work on these reservations for the Govt. which involved the planning of low cost housing and community facilities. All these were planned with the participation of the leaders of these communities and they were the ones that recommended many items in these developments and were followed.

[ljd1308]

5 hours ago, steven100 said:

read post #7  .....  similar circumstances ....?    stolen generation =  removed from drunken abusive parents and given housing, schooling, food and medical.

If nothing was ever done to help the useless aborigines they would all still be wandering the streets stealing and have no interest in bettering their lives.

Even now aboriginal children still break into air fields to steal aeroplane fuel for sniffing ... where are their parents  ?   at home drunk from similar.   The defence rests your honor.  Just my opinion and tell me if anything I mentioned is incorrect ...

Wow, the ignorance and racism are strong with you. Well done.

 

You asked to be told if anything was incorrect, yes, yes all of it was incorrect and you are clearly not a very intelligent person.

[ljd1308]

41 minutes ago, tigermoth said:

The Indigineous population of Australia should have no different status than any other civilian. Australia is a huge country and is large enough for all people. The USA, of similar size, has well in excess of 200m people. Of course this is helped by a large river running through the centre of the country whereas Australia does not. In todays technology advances much more of Australia could be irrigated. Many years ago a vast irrigation scheme was finished in the north of Australia which now enables the growing of rice and other food.

 

There are many indiginous people of Australia in meaningful occupations, doctors, lawyers, teachers etc., etc. Many indiginous people live on so called 'reservations' and have no wish to leave as these lands are part of their religion. I have done work on these reservations for the Govt. which involved the planning of low cost housing and community facilities. All these were planned with the participation of the leaders of these communities and they were the ones that recommended many items in these developments and were followed.

Do you mean the communities the government is now trying to close to force the Aboriginal people off the land?

[ljd1308]

2 hours ago, RigPig said:

Have they discovered the wheel yet, they  never did in 50.000 years, that's gotta be a record...

 

But seriously it's not going to go backward "This is what you've got. make it work" just like the rest of us!  Some have and have done well but many.....

No, the Mesopotamians "discovered" the wheel...Europeans haven't in 50000 years, must be a record.

 

I literally have no idea what point you are making, is it that everybody apart from ancient middle eastern civilisations have not discovered the wheel? A very strange point to make.....

[biggles45]

" I am just guessing because my mother was born around 1950...again, don't actually know because she was taken from her family"

 

It is a tragedy that your mother was separated from her family but it would appear that you have benefited from the situation ? Perhaps better education and opportunities were available to you as a result of this. Look at many of the "stolen generation" today and their children and they are doing well in comparison to those who were left behind. In fact in the last few years several Aboriginal communities have asked the State governments to take their children into care, but they said no for fear of another outcry.