How many visa extensions is too many?

[JoshBe]

I have been in Thailand on tourist visas and visa exempt entries for about 19 months of the past 2 years. I know that I'm rolling the dice every time I go through Thai immigration and I'm planning a long term solution, i.e. marriage in the near future.

Anyway, I would like to extend my current SETV for another month at Chaeng Wattana. In the past 365 days I've gotten 2 visa extensions and in the past 2 years I have gotten 4 visa extensions in total. 

- Will I have any trouble getting another extension? 
- Am I going to have any trouble when entering Thailand (I've read somewhere that after 4 extensions, the passport will be flagged and I might face questioning at immigration)

Also I should add that always enter Thailand via airport and I always bring THB 20'000 in cash with me. However I do not have any proof of employment since I'm self-employed.

Any help is greatly appreciated :)

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, JoshBe said:

- Will I have any trouble getting another extension? 

• You should have any trouble.

2 hours ago, JoshBe said:

- Am I going to have any trouble when entering Thailand (I've read somewhere that after 4 extensions, the passport will be flagged and I might face questioning at immigration)

• The only known flag at the moment is for 6 visa exempt entries, not extensions.
• Anyone living in Thailand long term using tourist visas or visa exempt entries could get questioned by immigration about what they are doing in the country.

2 hours ago, JoshBe said:

Also I should add that always enter Thailand via airport and I always bring THB 20'000 in cash with me. However I do not have any proof of employment since I'm self-employed.

• They would be more interested in seeing hotel bookings and onward flights, but if they are set on denying entry it doesn't really matter what you show them. Two years as a 'tourist' is enough to give suspicion that you are living/working in the country.

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

12 hours ago, JoshBe said:

Also I should add that always enter Thailand via airport and I always bring THB 20'000 in cash with me. However I do not have any proof of employment since I'm self-employed.

• They would be more interested in seeing hotel bookings and onward flights, but if they are set on denying entry it doesn't really matter what you show them. Two years as a 'tourist' is enough to give suspicion that you are living/working in the country.

I would definitely not try to come in on Exempt by air with your history.  Exempt at some land-crossings (Laos or Cambodia's Ban Laem or Ban Packard) are still ok 2x / year based on reports so far - but if you don't have 6 since 2015 yet, I'd avoid reaching that number.   Personally, I save those for cases where I didn't get the TR Visa.

You might consider not entering at airports At All, if possible.  Most land-crossings will give you no problem at all with a Tourist Visa, no matter how many you have before. 

 

So far, all denials I have seen - even at airports - have been, "Didn't have the money," though some had it, but were not asked to show it.  Therefore, be sure to show the money "helpfully" at the first sign of questioning.  That said, they also could deny based on suspicion of working.  Proof that your income is from an overseas source might help (or might not), but I always carry it. 

 

"Living in Thailand" is not a legal reason for denial of entry with a TR Visa, but even those on rotation in/out, with weeks in between entries, have been told they cannot use Visa-Exempt at airports.

[bbi1]

 

"How many visa extensions is too many" - well, I was always under the impression you can only go to Immigration once and get a 30 day extension then once that extension is up you have to leave the country. Is there something I'm missing about being allowed to do it more than once??? How are you getting 2 visa extensions at Chaeng Wattana?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

 

"How many visa extensions is too many" - well, I was always under the impression you can only go to Immigration once and get a 30 day extension. Is there something I'm missing about being allowed to do it more than once??? How are you getting 2 visa extensions at Chaeng Wattana?

You can only get one per entry. The OP is asking about a overall number of extensions not per entry. There is no overall limit.

[JoshBe]

23 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You can only get one per entry. The OP is asking about a overall number of extensions not per entry. There is no overall limit.

 

That's correct. Sorry for the misunderstanding. 

As always this was great help from all of you who posted here. Thank you very much indeed. 

If something goes wrong at either Chang Wattana or during the visa run, I will keep you posted... so I can serve as warning for others who might stumble upon this thread.

[wump]

On 5/30/2017 at 8:47 AM, JackThompson said:

I would definitely not try to come in on Exempt by air with your history.  Exempt at some land-crossings (Laos or Cambodia's Ban Laem or Ban Packard) are still ok 2x / year based on reports so far - but if you don't have 6 since 2015 yet, I'd avoid reaching that number.  

 

Been doing an exempt entry after 5 months stay in the previous 6 months and got quite a bit of a lecture in Thai at Ban Pakard when entering visa-exempt on a visa run. Next time better get a TR visa and fly in, preferably Suvarnabhumi (if you want to stay much longer).

 

About your original question: For now just another extension will be fine, much preferable to a visa run.

[wump]

What's all that "suspicion of working' BS? There is a lot of people in the world who were just born rich, got lucky at some point or inherited money. There is no reason at all to suspect everyone staying in the country for 2 years straight is a real estate agent, tour guide, boiler room guy or whatever. 

 

And if he's writing blogs online or whatever... though illegal, what harm does it to Thailand? If anything, it brings foreign currency in, strengthening the local economy.

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, wump said:

What's all that "suspicion of working' BS? There is a lot of people in the world who were just born rich, got lucky at some point or inherited money. There is no reason at all to suspect everyone staying in the country for 2 years straight is a real estate agent, tour guide, boiler room guy or whatever. 

They don't suspect everyone. Just those living in the country using tourist visas. If you live in the country you should have the right visa/permit.

[wump]

So, if he's under 50 you want him to fork out 100,000 Baht a year for an elite visa? For what? 

[elviajero]

1 minute ago, wump said:

So, if he's under 50 you want him to fork out 100,000 Baht a year for an elite visa? For what? 

If your question is to me, my answer is no.

[howard ashoul]

I was living in Thailand for 3.5 years on tourist visa (2 months visa from  Laos) straight. Then i got red stamp in my passport, that they are avare, that I'm abusing tourist visa system. After 3.5 years... .

 

I went back to Europe. Got Multiple entry 6 months visa. Spent here 6 months, then got another 2 months visa from Laos without any problem.

 

At monday I got married, so after my last visa will expire, I'm going for "marriage" visa.

[Get Real]

No limit? Overall? Tourist visa? Living long time?

Just wondering! How long time can a person be a tourist before it turns in to something else.
Seems like some people never understand why rules are invented and enforced. 
Me, myself and I is just living in a deep and sincere love to all the rules that might and can be created.

[wump]

Personally, I really do not understand why people from rich countries can't just pay amount x per day (like in Cambodia where it's about 26 Baht) and stay indefinitely. Oh wait, they can. Just Thailand charging a bit too much for it (272 Baht/day) and still making you feel unwelcome by requiring visa runs despite the high price.

[elviajero]

9 minutes ago, wump said:

Personally, I really do not understand why people from rich countries can't just pay amount x per day (like in Cambodia where it's about 26 Baht) and stay indefinitely. Oh wait, they can. Just Thailand charging a bit too much for it (272 Baht/day) and still making you feel unwelcome by requiring visa runs despite the high price.

They can if over 50, married, etc. And it only costs 5.20 baht per day.

 

They clearly don't want under 50's other than those that are prepared to pay/invest in Thailand. Nothing wrong with that. Most countries have controls.

[tryasimight]

On ‎30‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 1:32 AM, elviajero said:

• You should have any trouble.

• The only known flag at the moment is for 6 visa exempt entries, not extensions.
• Anyone living in Thailand long term using tourist visas or visa exempt entries could get questioned by immigration about what they are doing in the country.

• They would be more interested in seeing hotel bookings and onward flights, but if they are set on denying entry it doesn't really matter what you show them. Two years as a 'tourist' is enough to give suspicion that you are living/working in the country.

 

 

 

Suspected or rumoured 6 visa exempt entries. I've been travelling back and forth from Myanmar to BKK for 18 months every 3 to 4 weeks and staying in Thai for 12 to 14 days each time. Never a problem.

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

Suspected or rumoured 6 visa exempt entries. I've been travelling back and forth from Myanmar to BKK for 18 months every 3 to 4 weeks and staying in Thai for 12 to 14 days each time. Never a problem.

And you will probably continue not to have a problem. The 6 entry flag (actual) is to alert/help IO's, and it is not compulsory for them to interview someone with 6+.

[tryasimight]

I think you are right. I always put our address on the form and usually have a laugh with the I/O about it (Issaan address). I always tick 'other' in the staying with box. When asked I explain that I'm not staying in a hotel or with a friend....but with the Missus.....usually gets a laugh and a stamp with a chok dee thrown in,

[elviajero]

Just now, tryasimight said:

I think you are right. I always put our address on the form and usually have a laugh with the I/O about it (Issaan address). I always tick 'other' in the staying with box. When asked I explain that I'm not staying in a hotel or with a friend....but with the Missus.....usually gets a laugh and a stamp with a chok dee thrown in,

They aren't really after visitors like you. They are after people living in the country too long as a tourist. 6 x 30 days = 180 days which is the unofficial/unpublished limit per year that's often quoted by IO's.

[JackThompson]

On 6/1/2017 at 4:34 PM, tryasimight said:

Suspected or rumoured 6 visa exempt entries. I've been travelling back and forth from Myanmar to BKK for 18 months every 3 to 4 weeks and staying in Thai for 12 to 14 days each time. Never a problem.

Oil/Gas workers do similar schedules, and many have been told they must get a "proper visa" to continue.  I am glad you have had good luck with IOs so far - clearly you/they are not holding down a job here with that schedule.

 

On 5/31/2017 at 9:57 PM, wump said:

Been doing an exempt entry after 5 months stay in the previous 6 months and got quite a bit of a lecture in Thai at Ban Pakard when entering visa-exempt on a visa run. Next time better get a TR visa and fly in, preferably Suvarnabhumi (if you want to stay much longer).

A TR would be a good idea - it's what I do.  But I still prefer land-borders where if I ever am rejected, a turn-around wouldn't be so bad.

 

On 5/31/2017 at 10:01 PM, wump said:

What's all that "suspicion of working' BS? There is a lot of people in the world who were just born rich, got lucky at some point or inherited money. There is no reason at all to suspect everyone staying in the country for 2 years straight is a real estate agent, tour guide, boiler room guy or whatever. 

 

And if he's writing blogs online or whatever... though illegal, what harm does it to Thailand? If anything, it brings foreign currency in, strengthening the local economy.

You are preaching to the converted with me on all points.  The only reason I ever considered working here was to get a Non-B visa; so, to a degree, they actually encourage us to take Thai's job-opportunities, when we'd be happier to just stay retired.   If I wanted to work "for money," I'd go to Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, Japan, South Korea, etc. 

 

Clearly most under-50 Westerners aren't working here and would not want to.  Contrast to those from Cambodia, Myanmar, and Laos, who can get much higher pay here, and yet their entry is not limited to 2x at land borders, etc.  Laotians caught on longer-overstays don't get bans or locked up until they can get a flight, according to a report last year - the poster's Lao-wife's family comes in on TR visas, stays for months, then pays some nominal fee at the border on exit.  Clearly they don't really care about illegal-workers per-se - just younger farangs, it seems.

[JackThompson]

33 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

  Laotians caught on longer-overstays don't get bans or locked up until they can get a flight, according to a report last year - the poster's Lao-wife's family comes in on TR visas, stays for months, then pays some nominal fee at the border on exit. 

Correction - some don't even have passports - must be in on border-passes:

 

[tomwct]

You may have some problems. If your looking to get another student visa, I hope you speak very good Thai.

[JoshBe]

Update for anyone who might find this thread via Google or Forum Search: 

 

I was able to obtain the visa extension without any hassle. Thank you everyone for your advice.

Now I'm planning my next step. There are two options for me on the table:

A. I'm in the process of preparing all the documents to get married with my GF at the Amphoe. If I manage to do that before my visa extension expires, I'm planning to get a Non-O visa based on marriage in Penang.

B. If I fail to get the marriage done in time, I'm planning to go to Penang anyway and get another tourist visa.

 

 

Questions:

 

 

1. Is it realistic to get married (without wedding, just Amphoe) within 3-4 weeks?

2. I have obtained my current tourist visa in Penang. This is the first visa I got in Penang. Is it going to be a problem if I want to get another visa (either Non-O or TR) in Penang again?
 

[ubonjoe]

1. Yes

But it depends upon how long it takes to get the affirmation of permit to marry from your embassy. Once that is done the translation of it and the certification of it at the consular affairs department in Bangkok should not take more than a couple of days. Then less than a day at an Amphoe.

3. No problem for both types of visas.

[JoshBe]

Thank you for your reply ubonjoe.

If I want to obtain a Non-O visa based on marriage in Penang, do I need to show a bank statement with THB 400'000? Or is this only required for the 1-year extension after the Non-O visa expires?
 

Is it okay if I use a recent bank statement (< 1 week)? I was rather penniless up until recently ;-)

[JackThompson]

14 hours ago, JoshBe said:

Update for anyone who might find this thread via Google or Forum Search: 

I was able to obtain the visa extension without any hassle. Thank you everyone for your advice.

Now I'm planning my next step. There are two options for me on the table:
A. I'm in the process of preparing all the documents to get married with my GF at the Amphoe. If I manage to do that before my visa extension expires, I'm planning to get a Non-O visa based on marriage in Penang.
B. If I fail to get the marriage done in time, I'm planning to go to Penang anyway and get another tourist visa.

 

Questions:

1. Is it realistic to get married (without wedding, just Amphoe) within 3-4 weeks?
2. I have obtained my current tourist visa in Penang. This is the first visa I got in Penang. Is it going to be a problem if I want to get another visa (either Non-O or TR) in Penang again?

Check with your Amphoe for what their rules are in advance - they each make up their own rules.  Do not rely on info found online (much of which is outdated).  Some Amphoes are now asking for your passport 'details page' translated and certified by the MFA (Banglamung, Ban Rak).  Some want your passport-page copy certified as a 'true copy' by your Embassy (which the USA will not do) prior to translation and MFA Certification.  Others will not accept the affirmation of "freedom to marry" if your Embassy states, "cannot guarantee this information..." in their wording (USA #9 on their form) whether translated and certified by the MFA or not. 

[JoshBe]

I hope it's ok if I bump this old thread instead of opening a new one. I think this is less "spammy".

Here's a quick summary of my situation:

 

• Male, late 30's from an European country
• I live on some modest passive income, i.e. I don't work in Thailand
• I've moved to Thailand 2 years ago and stayed here for about 20 months in total 
• I've stayed here mostly on Tourist visas, a few visa-exempt entries and a few extensions
• Currently I'm staying on a SETV from Penang which is about to run out
   

My plan:

 

1. Go to Penang soon and get another SETV via agent (Jim's Place)
2. Stay another 2 months in Thailand and get married with my girlfriend at the local Amphoe
3. Go back to my home country and get a Non-O based on marriage
    

The recent reports of people with valid visas being denied entry at the airport worries me quite a bit. I know that entering Thailand via airport with a "colorful" passport like mine is playing Russian roulette. Nevertheless I would like to decrease the chance of ending up in a detention cell as much as possible.

I will of course bring 20'000 Baht in cash with me and be well dressed at the airport (appearance are important here, aren't they). I will also have an onward flight back to my home country. But I was wondering if I can bring something else with me that might help me?

Here are some ideas:

 

• Proof of my passive income
• Letter from my LLC (offshore) stating that I'm receiving a monthly salary (I'm not sure if this might prompt the IO to ask how can I receive a salary if I'm not working)
• Letter from my girlfriend stating that we are intending to get married (she will travel with me and stay behind me at the immigration queue at the airport)
• Copy of my condo rental contract which is signed by me and my girlfriend (or would it be less suspicious to book a hotel?)
   

Will any of the documents above be helpful? Is there anything else I can do? 

 

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, JoshBe said:

I hope it's ok if I bump this old thread instead of opening a new one. I think this is less "spammy".
Here's a quick summary of my situation:

 

• Male, late 30's from an European country
• I live on some modest passive income, i.e. I don't work in Thailand
• I've moved to Thailand 2 years ago and stayed here for about 20 months in total 
• I've stayed here mostly on Tourist visas, a few visa-exempt entries and a few extensions
• Currently I'm staying on a SETV from Penang which is about to run out
   

My plan:

1. Go to Penang soon and get another SETV via agent (Jim's Place)
2. Stay another 2 months in Thailand and get married with my girlfriend at the local Amphoe
3. Go back to my home country and get a Non-O based on marriage
    

The recent reports of people with valid visas being denied entry at the airport worries me quite a bit. I know that entering Thailand via airport with a "colorful" passport like mine is playing Russian roulette. Nevertheless I would like to decrease the chance of ending up in a detention cell as much as possible.

I will of course bring 20'000 Baht in cash with me and be well dressed at the airport (appearance are important here, aren't they). I will also have an onward flight back to my home country. But I was wondering if I can bring something else with me that might help me?

Here are some ideas:

• Proof of my passive income
• Letter from my LLC (offshore) stating that I'm receiving a monthly salary (I'm not sure if this might prompt the IO to ask how can I receive a salary if I'm not working)
• Letter from my girlfriend stating that we are intending to get married (she will travel with me and stay behind me at the immigration queue at the airport)
• Copy of my condo rental contract which is signed by me and my girlfriend (or would it be less suspicious to book a hotel?)

Will any of the documents above be helpful? Is there anything else I can do?

If you haven't extended your current entry, you can get 30 days now - enough time to get documents from your embassy, have them stamped by the MFA, then get married at an amphoe.  Any "ceremony" business can be done later.  Once married, future entries with a Non-O based on marriage, backed up by your copies of marriage documents and 20K Baht, would erase any fear upon entry.  After marriage, you can add 60 more days by extension to 'visit your wife' at your local immigration office to any entry - even after an extension of your Tourist Visa entry.  That gives you the time to plan the next steps.

 

If you must marry after your next trip out - not before ... You definitely meet the age and visa-history criteria for which you could grilled at the airport - possibly rejected for "intending to work" absent any evidence, and to spite having the 20K+ Baht.  We only have one reported case here of rejection, but more cases of airport-grillings and more cases of rejection reported in other forums.  All the documents could help, but whether your IO "approves" of "mixed-marriages" is unknown (it's like USA circa 1950, in some of their heads, it would seem). 

 

On your income - you cannot work here by law - even for a foreign company remotely; it is not generally enforced in the case of remote-work, but we are talking about situation where the IO might be looking for any way to reject your entry.  Better would be a bank-statement with a healthy balance and proof that the money you are spending comes from abroad.  The statement might show payments going in, along with your atm-withdrawls showing where the "money you spend in Thailand" originates.  A recent withdrawal from that account showing a healthy balance could back up that statement.  Make sure your gf knows how all this fits together - how you have money to spend - as she could be questioned as to what you do here.

 

Given recent behavior by airport IOs, is there any chance you could train to Pendang Besar from Penang, cross at a land-border, then fly back to BKK (or where ever) from Hat Yai?  Better yet, get your next Visa in Laos, because the land-borders there are more friendly than Malaysia.  There are fly-ride services that go from BKK to Udon to the border.   I'd still bring all of the documents + money, and the GF, just in case entry-point policies change - though I doubt you would need anything but the money coming from Malaysia, and probably not even that from Laos. 

 

Consider that a rejection at a land border - very unlikely given your documentation and showing the money - would allow you to walk back where you came from, rent a guesthouse-room, and consider your options somewhere other than a detention-cell.

 

One last thing - do any of your Tourist Visas have a little extra stamp that says something like, "This person travels to Thailand frequently on Tourist Visas...." ?  If not, you are good to go, but if so, let us know, as this could change your strategy.

[JoshBe]

Thank you very much for the detailed advice JackThompson. I really appreciate that. 

Unfortunately I have already extended my visa and I didn't manage to get all the document in time to get the marriage at the Amphur done in time. The amount of paperwork required is quite staggering.

Also I have already booked the Penang flight and now I'm not sure if I should take the bus from Penang to Hat Yai instead when traveling back. I guess I will roll the dice and hope that the IOs at Don Mueang will be too busy with large Chinese tour groups and not bother to take a long look at my passport... at least that's what happened the last few times I went through Don Muang. God bless the rowdy Chinese hordes

Luckily I don't have a warning stamp in my passport yet. 

I will keep you guys posted on my success or failure. Thank you again for all the advice.

 

 

[perthperson]

1 hour ago, JoshBe said:

Unfortunately I have already extended my visa and I didn't manage to get all the document in time to get the marriage at the Amphur done in time. The amount of paperwork required is quite staggering.

Is this true ?  When we were married there was not a "staggering" amount of paperwork involved. If I remember correctly it took less than a week to gather the small amount of paperwork needed. 

 

Is there something complex or unusual about your situation?