Thai parties concerned PM could push back 2018 vote, retain power

[robblok]

5 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Yet you seem to support these people. evidently breaking the law is of no concern. Building up a deficit isn't smart, but the current deficit that is being built without any electoral mandate whatsoever simply put previous government in the kindergarten category. 

 

Calling for politicians to be accountable, yet at the same time you support known criminals that have exempted themselves from any accountability from anyone including the judicial system.

 

Prayuth quote about the same kind of people being elected and what to do in such a case is exactly the reason for the coup and any delays. just like you,  he is unable to accept the outcome of free and fair elections, and tries to explain this away with lies and <deleted>. 

 

When will he and his friends be accountable for running Thailand into the ground, or is accountability and justice only applicable to people you happen to hate ?

Sjaak, i support part of the things the junta does.. but certainly not all far from it.. I am also for less army spending and thought the subs are a bad idea. I don't like the military one bit that they have an amnesty, but you support the PTP do you agree with all they do or are you like me support parts of it ?

 

 

[robblok]

Just now, Smarter Than You said:

Let me get this right, according to you, the Shinawatras cunning plan was - 

1. Form a political party and put forward populist policies to buy the votes of the ignorant poor masses

2. Once they win the election, enact the populist policies, but skim and steal so much that nothing makes it to the poor

but, that doesn't matter because step three is ...

3. Make sure the military conducts a coup so that you don't have to face another election.

 

IDIOCY!

 

Again, in your efforts to try and twist falsehoods into facts to support your Junta, you miss the point being made by the Diplomat.

 

Overall, though, the program is not that expensive. There are countless examples of governments around the world investing in much costlier failed projects.

 

Countless examples of governments making much bigger and much worse mistakes than PTP - yet none of them face coups.

The rice scheme was not an existential threat to Thailand - it was a run of the mill cock-up.

The rice scheme did not justify a coup.

 

The cost of the program is not the main reason why Shinawatra eventually faced impeachment.

 

Can you understand that? 

 

Who are the military serving now - their masters!

Why do the masses still so overwhelmingly support PTP - because PTP served them much, much better than any political party ever has.

 

If the coup had wide support why not just contest the election and win?

The fact is the coup didn't have wide support - it doesn't have wide support now.

There are no elections because the coup and its backers to not have the support of the majority of the Thai people

Again, why is so hard for you to grasp this simple and obvious fact?

The coup and the Junta are not popular, that is why there are no elections.

 

Score points?

The article steps out just how messy the process was to get rid of the elected government.

How all the different apparatuses of the permanent state had to come together to get their coup against the peoples government.

All because there was no valid reason for a coup.

 

Are the Shinawatra's and PTP perfect - no they are not.

Was the coup justified - no it wasn't.

 

 

 

 

 

Step 3 is give other policies that dazzle them and let them vote again. But this time step 3 was not needed. I did not twist anything you asked me how things could be done.. the time thing was how. You were just not smart enough to see it. 

 

The article showed all the bad things of the PTP.. including opening the way for even more nepotism by making sure that family members could be senators. Cant you see how bad they were.. cant you see all the bad things the article wrote about them. 

 

Aare the Shins perfect.. no they are not

Was the coup justified.. yes it was.. is the coup taking too long now.. yes it is. 

[mtls2005]

Can you understand that? 

 

There's honestly no way to have sane and logical discussions with junta-huggers. Their hatred for populist politicians, fear of the messiness of democracy and love for "stability" makes it impossible. I wouldn't waste the time, words or cycles trying communicate with them. Most fade away, even if they come back with new handles.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by mtls2005

[onthesoi]

Lol... What sane and rational person doesn't want a stable society.

[Smarter Than You]

18 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Lol... What sane and rational person doesn't want a stable society.

"stability" is different from stability.

 

Th Juntas "stability" is not real and comes at too high a cost (freedom).

 

The type of people who want Junta "stability" are those that are afraid that, given a level playing field, they will go backwards.

Scaredy cats who know they merit less than they have now.

[Eric Loh]

39 minutes ago, onthesoi said:

Lol... What sane and rational person doesn't want a stable society.

No society can be stable when guns are used to seize power and suppression of the people through intimidation anywhere in the world. 

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Sjaak, i support part of the things the junta does.. but certainly not all far from it.. I am also for less army spending and thought the subs are a bad idea. I don't like the military one bit that they have an amnesty, but you support the PTP do you agree with all they do or are you like me support parts of it ?

 

 

I do not support PTP, I support democracy. And I do respect the results of an election and understand that any government that is formed in accordance with those result IS the legitimate government of Thailand. 

[sjaak327]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

Step 3 is give other policies that dazzle them and let them vote again. But this time step 3 was not needed. I did not twist anything you asked me how things could be done.. the time thing was how. You were just not smart enough to see it. 

 

The article showed all the bad things of the PTP.. including opening the way for even more nepotism by making sure that family members could be senators. Cant you see how bad they were.. cant you see all the bad things the article wrote about them. 

 

Aare the Shins perfect.. no they are not

Was the coup justified.. yes it was.. is the coup taking too long now.. yes it is. 

No coup can ever be justified. Especially not one where the government du jour is already in care taker modus and parliament dissolved, elections scheduled. 

 

The reason for the coup was to ensure that the elite get into power at all times regardless of which government actually gets elected. Prayuth's Freudian slip, wanting democracy to fail in Thailand isn't all that shocking in light of this.

 

One must wonder why the delay holding elections is really necessary. The constitution that was 'approved'  against all democratic principles ensures the goal of the coup. Maybe they did realize there is still some loophole that needs to be closed ? 

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

14 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

I do not support PTP, I support democracy. And I do respect the results of an election and understand that any government that is formed in accordance with those result IS the legitimate government of Thailand. 

You do understand that democracy is a lot more then just voting don't you.. do you remember the plan of the PTP that they wanted family members to become senators (undermining part of what a democracy is an independent senate ?). So you do get that there is more to a democracy as just voting and when a party is not upholding the other pillars of democracy is it then still a democracy. 

[sjaak327]

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

You do understand that democracy is a lot more then just voting don't you.. do you remember the plan of the PTP that they wanted family members to become senators (undermining part of what a democracy is an independent senate ?). So you do get that there is more to a democracy as just voting and when a party is not upholding the other pillars of democracy is it then still a democracy. 

I am not aware of any such plan. i seem to remember that the PTP wanted to return to a fully elected senate, which IS something I support. Let's not touch the subject of nepotism, because the current lot is a few classes worse when nepotism is concerned, with the difference that asking too many questions will land you in some attitude adjustment session...

 

There were ample checks and balances in place, courtesy of yet another Junta constitution, apparently they failed once again. The Thai military failing at anything they do, what else is new.

 

By the way, how do you think the new senate (all 250 senators appointed) will be populated and exactly by whom ? Every time you bring a point to table, the situation got worse under the junta.

Edited May 31, 2017 by sjaak327

[idman]

I don't give a fiddler's fart whether there will be elections at the end of 2018 or they will be delayed once again. I stated my opinion that I don't believe elections will happen. I am not Thai and have no dog in this fight. Some Padre has the nerve to tell me to waken up? Unless you are directly effected by the present Government or one that might come to power don't go telling me your thoughts on life in Thailand, you are the same as the rest of us, nothing more that guests and unwelcomed ones at that.

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[Smarter Than You]

27 minutes ago, robblok said:

You do understand that democracy is a lot more then just voting don't you.. do you remember the plan of the PTP that they wanted family members to become senators (undermining part of what a democracy is an independent senate ?). So you do get that there is more to a democracy as just voting and when a party is not upholding the other pillars of democracy is it then still a democracy. 

You do understand that a system is more democratic with voting (e.g. before the coup) than without voting (e.g. after the coup).

You claim Thai democracy was no good because it wasn't perfect but gleefully accept the current situation which is worse than what you reject.

Illogical.

 

Name any developed country that bans family members of sitting MPs from being Senators.

 

Which pillars of democracy are the Junta holding up?

Name a couple for us.

We know what won't be on the list - elections

 

Do you get that the current situation is less democratic than before.

It is quite a simple concept to grasp, just take off the blinkers.

[Eric Loh]

20 minutes ago, Smarter Than You said:

Which pillars of democracy are the Junta holding up?

I would say none. Let's check this out.

 

4 pillars of democracy are: -

 

1. Executive (government) - unelected and non accountable to the voters

2. Legislature - all appointed and mostly generals

3. Judiciary - tacit supporting and legitimizing the coup by throwing out cases that coup was unconstitutional and was treasonable 

4. Media - threatened, intimidation and prohibition of people expression

[steven100]

I think it should be pushed back to 2020

[cms22]

I actually think Thailand shouldn't have elections. Not for at least two decades. The army should retain control of the state and all its agencies.


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[mtls2005]

25 minutes ago, cms22 said:

I actually think Thailand shouldn't have elections. Not for at least two decades. The army should retain control of the state and all its agencies.


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Since they've had control for a the majority of time since 1932, and done such a stellar job, you're probably right. At least it won't get any better.

[cms22]

I'm serious. What's the point of elections. The politicians are corrupt and useless, the military is equally inept. Why bother with elections??


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[Reigntax]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

I believe in popular policies as long as they benefit everyone. Why is it that farmers get so much money and are able to fail all the time and get bailed out but nong who starts a coffee shop when she fails is left to solve it herself ? Has it something to do that the farmers are a big voting block. Also why are the solutions not made to change the farmers to be self sufficient not depended on handouts.. maybe because otherwise the voting block is broken ?

 

Also my biggest gripe is that the Thai tax base is so small and its the middle class who has to pay for it all. I don't care much for rich people (the really rich ones). They can pay but the middle class.. salary workers get screwed over all the time paying for the failure of others while seeing little back of the taxes they pay. When the poor are such a large voting block that they overrule those who actually pay the taxes (middle class) its a bad thing. Sorry my opinion, I have always believed in people who work hard and take risks and study should be rewarded.. not taxed all the time. I also believe that those who fail all the time should not be helped all the time. There is a time that those need to change.a

 

You should read this an other topics.. I support.. hell I want the military spending to be less. I think the subs are crazy and the fact that military spending in a % to gdp went up is a bad thing. 

 

The Thai tax base is so small due to the majority of the country living below the poverty line. And that is just where the military want them. Poor, uneducated, scraping for existence and worried  only how they will feed themselves today rather than fight for their right to prosperity and rise up against the continual and deliberate intentions of the military.

 

Along comes someone who delivers some minor assistance, elected by the people and the military see him as a threat. Dont let the poor get too much, they may start to ask questions like.

 

Why has the military enforced so many constitutions and they have all failed, at least not been suitable to the junta.

Why is the Thai military so big, yet they fail at every opportunity to prove their worth.

Why cant the self appointed PM answer questions. He stole democracy from the people.

Why are the military generals and high raking police rich beyond their salaries.why arent they being investigated?

Why is the RTP and the whole judical system in such a failed state or repair? Who has also allowed this to occur over the last 70 years? Politians and who else?

 A 10 year old school girl could draft a law to outlaw corruption during play lunch. How is it that the military cant?

Why can other countries operate under the same constitution for 100's of years butThailand cant even for 5.?

Why is Thailand so afraid of its history. Most people learn from the past. Thailand pretends it didnt occur and repeats the same mistakes over and over.

 

Could go on until the next election but that wont occur until the people have had enough and rise up.

 

A reasonably smart 20th century peson one said "we cannot solve our problems with the same thinking used when we created them". I also assume we could say that problems cannot be solved by the same people who created them.

 

But as the military are blameless because history does not exist, they can continue to do the same over and over and each time expect a different result, fail and repeat the cycle.