Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[Khun Han]

1 minute ago, rockingrobin said:

On brexit we will have our own WTO scheduelles that will have to be accepted by all members , no doubt there will be some who will feel that they are at a disadvantage and will seek compromise.

 

I didn't ask you that. I agree that there will be squabbles. I asked you if you believe that the UK will be embargoed.

[owl sees all]

The UK membership of the WTO is bound up with the EU. It will have to be unraveled and renegotiated. But things are changing worldwide. I have high hopes for the UK's trading future.

[rockingrobin]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

I can remember the PM of a Caribbean country coming to the UK and going away empty handed on deals for fruit, especially bananas. They were too small, too yellow, too sweet and not straight enough. Made big news in the UK. I was living in Kingston (JA) at that time and I can recall the dismay. 

Maybe you could place a date on this, the EU-US Banana war took 20years to resolve, and gives a good demonstration that whatever the status there are rules and regulations out of your control

 http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/world/20110121STO12285/ending-the-banana-wars-who-wins-and-who-loses

[alfieconn]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

Just like the point I made about Boris. May saw an opportunity to become PM so ditched her previously held views. If you read my previous posts can you imagine Thatcher ditching her views, can you imagine Clarke ditching his pro Remain views, can you imagine Bill Cash ditching his Pro Brexit views just to gain political advancement? Politicians like Thatcher, Clarke, Cash are conviction politicians they believe in what they say. Politicians such as May, Johnson and Leadsom are all about ambition. 

She didn't have to ditch her views to become PM !

[owl sees all]

The WTO is subject to pressures from big business the same as individual countries are.

If it is a countries interest not to have something happen then lobbying and pressure is put on whoever is the fly in the ointment. One of the reasons why smaller countries find it so hard to break free.

[rockingrobin]

6 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I didn't ask you that. I agree that there will be squabbles. I asked you if you believe that the UK will be embargoed.

The issue is not about tariffs, but the non tarriff bariers , such as conformity testing

[alfieconn]

2 hours ago, pitrevie said:

What is your evidence for that, the vote was about leaving the EU nowhere did it say anything about anything else. 

Yeah lets ignore what Boris said about everything.

 

 

The Single Market refers to the EU as one territory without any internal borders or other regulatory obstacles to the free movement of goods and services

[owl sees all]

The WTO along with the world banking system and big business is gradually TRYING to take control of the world. Small countries and 99% of the people are simply sleepwalking into conformity. Note that Afganistan has just joined the WTO. I wonder why!

 

Humans get off your knees!!!

[owl sees all]

This WTO and the world banks (including the IMF, FED and Bank of England) are all about control. The more the big boys can control the smaller the happier the 1% are.

 

I was in the UK, and participated in the demo', when Tony f------ Blair sent us to war with Iraq. Why wouldn't he listen to reason? Well I'll tell you my take on this. The US was worried about the petro-dollar. It would have been disasterous for the US if Sadam had continued to trade oil in currency other than dollars. Well Blair couldn't exactly say that; could he!!! So THEY came up with this b------s about WMDestruction.

 

Now China is doing big deals with Russia and paying in gold and silver. Can we see a picture emerging here. These countries are being demonised; any which way. Whilst Saudi Arabia is almost worshiped.

 

But getting back to the topic. The EU leaving has meant a loss of control by the European bankers and they don't like it one bit.

 

[AlexRich]

8 hours ago, owl sees all said:

We would discuss the world's problems and how we could contribute to making the world a better, safer and more happy place.

 

There was the occasional light hearted moment when granddad would fall asleep and start to snore.

 

Elvis was new on the scene back then and we would discuss his moves, analyse his song's words and bemoan the passing of big band music. The new, clean shaven raver; Cliff Richard had just wooed the public and taken the London bus on a trip.

 

The Tories were saying that we had "never had it so good". That would be a regular discussion point.

 

Yes; those were the days!!

Nostalgia ... it ain't what it used to be!

[AlexRich]

2 hours ago, owl sees all said:

George Galloway and Nigel Farage reckon just get out! No more payments to Europe. First thing to do is reclaim our fishing waters. Negotiate as we go. Start trading with the rest of the world as of now. 

 

That's a stance I can accept as well.

Yes, but what does the Mad Hatter and the March Hare think? I'm sitting on the fence until I hear their views!

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

How could it be a rejection if she (TM) still had a majority. A bit like Corbyn saying he won the election.

May had a majority. Now she does not ... and that's why she's donning a "Sash her Father Wore" and getting into bed with Arlene the homophobe. It was a disaster for May ... she needed a big majority to push Brexit through and ride out the voter backlash in the next election. That cushion is now gone. And now we are facing Brexit plus a return to the 1970s socialist experiment courtesy of Jeremy Corbyn. 

 

We were doing okay, slowly recovering from the crisis ... then we all decided that suicide was painless ... <deleted> ... we're set to have a Prime Minister who makes Hugo Chavez look like a rabid right winger. Well done Brexiteers. 

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, AlexRich said:

We were doing okay, slowly recovering from the crisis ... then we all decided that suicide was painless ... <deleted> ... we're set to have a Prime Minister who makes Hugo Chavez look like a rabid right winger. Well done Brexiteers.

I take it you mean J Corbyn!? Sorry if I read it incorrectly.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

I take it you mean J Corbyn!? Sorry if I read it incorrectly.

Yes. At the moment he looks like he could get enough votes to get in power. 

 

 

[owl sees all]

14 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

Yes. At the moment he looks like he could get enough votes to get in power.

Corbyn has defied his critics since the election was called.

 

For me the best Labour leader since John Smith and he was the best leading socialist since Tony Benn. Note how quiet the Blairites are.

 

His politics are not everyone's cup of tea but I know him well and he is an OK guy. 

[AlexRich]

1 minute ago, owl sees all said:

Corbyn has defied his critics since the election was called.

 

For me the best Labour leader since John Smith and he was the best leading socialist since Tony Benn. Note how quiet the Blairites are.

 

His politics are not everyone's cup of tea but I know him well and he is an OK guy. 

I'm sure he is an okay guy ... but he's an okay guy that will destroy the country economically at a time (Brexit) when that is the last thing that it needs. An unintended consequence of Brexit. 

 

[brewsterbudgen]

Corbyn has defied his critics since the election was called.
 
For me the best Labour leader since John Smith and he was the best leading socialist since Tony Benn. Note how quiet the Blairites are.
 
His politics are not everyone's cup of tea but I know him well and he is an OK guy. 

I'm a convert too. What really did it for me was the realisation that he is electable. The Tories will need to ditch May soon as she is a liability. They will have to replace her wisely to stand a chance of winning.

[owl sees all]

16 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

I'm sure he is an okay guy ... but he's an okay guy that will destroy the country economically at a time (Brexit) when that is the last thing that it needs. An unintended consequence of Brexit. 

Anyone who follows the political discussions on TVisa seems to be either totally for him or as yourself against him. Personally I was disappointed when he was no more that 'luke warm' over Brexit. I for one, had plenty to say, in Labour circles over that. If he had thrown himself fully behind Brexit he would be in number 10 now.

 

Behind the scenes in Labour there are far more radical issues being discussed than is on the open table right now. I've listed some in earlier posts and I want Corbyn to be even more left of centre than he is. Perhaps if he does get into power we will see what his followers' real policies are.

 

As for "will destroy the country economically' I'd like to join you on a debating platform (on TVisa of course).

[vogie]

40 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Anyone who follows the political discussions on TVisa seems to be either totally for him or as yourself against him. Personally I was disappointed when he was no more that 'luke warm' over Brexit. I for one, had plenty to say, in Labour circles over that. If he had thrown himself fully behind Brexit he would be in number 10 now.

 

Behind the scenes in Labour there are far more radical issues being discussed than is on the open table right now. I've listed some in earlier posts and I want Corbyn to be even more left of centre than he is. Perhaps if he does get into power we will see what his followers' real policies are.

 

As for "will destroy the country economically' I'd like to join you on a debating platform (on TVisa of course).

Maybe you should start a new topic on the virtues of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonald, I'm sure it would be very interesting?

[owl sees all]

Just now, vogie said:

Maybe you should start a new topic on the virtues of Corbyn, Abbott and McDonald, I'm sure it would be very interesting?

LOL

I must have been hungry when I typed that.

Great spot.

[AlexRich]

51 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

Anyone who follows the political discussions on TVisa seems to be either totally for him or as yourself against him. Personally I was disappointed when he was no more that 'luke warm' over Brexit. I for one, had plenty to say, in Labour circles over that. If he had thrown himself fully behind Brexit he would be in number 10 now.

 

Behind the scenes in Labour there are far more radical issues being discussed than is on the open table right now. I've listed some in earlier posts and I want Corbyn to be even more left of centre than he is. Perhaps if he does get into power we will see what his followers' real policies are.

 

As for "will destroy the country economically' I'd like to join you on a debating platform (on TVisa of course).

 

He's offering old wine in new bottles ... high tax levels, high spending, nationalisation, increased union power ... as bad as things are with Brexit, his policies will make a bad situation much worse ... he'll takes us down the same road as Venezuela ... thank god I'm out of it. 

[owl sees all]

Just now, AlexRich said:

He's offering old wine in new bottles ... high tax levels, high spending, nationalisation, increased union power ... as bad as things are with Brexit, his policies will make a bad situation much worse ... he'll takes us down the same road as Venezuela ... thank god I'm out of it.

In politics the reality becomes the norm. We had Thatcherism followed by Blairism and both were the accepted way for a long time. True the Iraq war found Blair out but, insiders knew his true value, before that. The people then tired of his 'new Labour' so he stepped down. Brown came in and proved to be a poor socialist with capitalist ideas. The rest is recent history

 

Corbyn seems strange because he is offering something that has not been seen in 30 years. Honest, fairness, caring and perhaps most important integrity.

 

The tax burden needs to be shared out fairer. The proposed nationalisms are well supported by the UK people. And what is wrong with a person having a say in his own industry?

 

High spending!!!! If it is worthwhile and sensibly spent. What is wrong with that? The difference between austerity spending and 'high' spending is less in a year than we pay the private individuals who run the bank of England. The way to break free from the stranglehold of the Bank of England is a parallel currency based on gold or silver (to be promoted soon) or crypto currency.

 

Venezuela; a visionary, thwarted by elites who continually put obstacles in the way of his social programme.

 

 

.

[citybiker]

In politics the reality becomes the norm. We had Thatcherism followed by Blairism and both were the accepted way for a long time. True the Iraq war found Blair out but, insiders knew his true value, before that. The people then tired of his 'new Labour' so he stepped down. Brown came in and proved to be a poor socialist with capitalist ideas. The rest is recent history
 
Corbyn seems strange because he is offering something that has not been seen in 30 years. Honest, fairness, caring and perhaps most important integrity.
 
The tax burden needs to be shared out fairer. The proposed nationalisms are well supported by the UK people. And what is wrong with a person having a say in his own industry?
 
High spending!!!! If it is worthwhile and sensibly spent. What is wrong with that? The difference between austerity spending and 'high' spending is less in a year than we pay the private individuals who run the bank of England. The way to break free from the stranglehold of the Bank of England is a parallel currency based on gold or silver (to be promoted soon) or crypto currency.
 
Venezuela; a visionary, thwarted by elites who continually put obstacles in the way of his social programme.
 
 
.

Worthwhile high spending & sensibly spent? Labours track record on the UK finances is something we can ill afford to see repeated.

Hypocrisy at its highest level, ok so JC is honest, caring and calling for fairness agreed shows integrity however making important decisions and prioritising.





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[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

Venezuela; a visionary, thwarted by elites who continually put obstacles in the way of his social programme.

 

Right on man.

[AlexRich]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Right on man.

I gave up the will to live when I read his revisionist history stance on Chavez and Maduro ... a country with mammoth resources operating below the level of banana republic.

[owl sees all]

When JC first became leader he had a very big following from the people left of centre. These people, me included (although I had been a platform speaker alongside Ken Liv many years before) wanted to change things for the better. 

 

When door knocking it was noticeable just how much people took notice of the media. The people loved his honesty and integrity but they echoed the media propaganda in that they were doubtful about his PM qualities.

 

it was established early on that JC principles would not be compromised in order to move into the Blairite territory. This Labour would be a softish Tony Benn  Labour with an option to go harder later. 

 

Gradually people began to really listen, and the young with their alternative social media capabilities, took JC to heart. That there is another way. The Tory old school has been somewhat demolished and it has opened UK people's minds to alternatives.  

 

12 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'm a convert too. What really did it for me was the realisation that he is electable.

It has been a gradual process of people realising that he is electable. But it's onward and upward from here (in saying that he is not PM yet).

 

[vogie]

17 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

When JC first became leader he had a very big following from the people left of centre. These people, me included (although I had been a platform speaker alongside Ken Liv many years before) wanted to change things for the better. 

 

When door knocking it was noticeable just how much people took notice of the media. The people loved his honesty and integrity but they echoed the media propaganda in that they were doubtful about his PM qualities.

 

it was established early on that JC principles would not be compromised in order to move into the Blairite territory. This Labour would be a softish Tony Benn  Labour with an option to go harder later. 

 

Gradually people began to really listen, and the young with their alternative social media capabilities, took JC to heart. That there is another way. The Tory old school has been somewhat demolished and it has opened UK people's minds to alternatives.  

 

It has been a gradual process of people realising that he is electable. But it's onward and upward from here (in saying that he is not PM yet).

 

When you mention his honesty and integrity, I assume you are not referring to his extra marital affair with Dianne Abbott behind his wifes back?

[owl sees all]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

When you mention his honesty and integrity, I assume you are not referring to his extra marital affair with Dianne Abbott behind his wifes back?

His political integrity.

 

I always thought that Tory, what's his name now, was the lover boy.

[owl sees all]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Dianne Abbott

Just because they are in the political bed together doesn't mean they are copulating.

 

Yes Dianne Abbott; every red-blooded man's wet dream!!

[AlexRich]

45 minutes ago, owl sees all said:

When JC first became leader he had a very big following from the people left of centre. These people, me included (although I had been a platform speaker alongside Ken Liv many years before) wanted to change things for the better. 

 

When door knocking it was noticeable just how much people took notice of the media. The people loved his honesty and integrity but they echoed the media propaganda in that they were doubtful about his PM qualities.

 

it was established early on that JC principles would not be compromised in order to move into the Blairite territory. This Labour would be a softish Tony Benn  Labour with an option to go harder later. 

 

Gradually people began to really listen, and the young with their alternative social media capabilities, took JC to heart. That there is another way. The Tory old school has been somewhat demolished and it has opened UK people's minds to alternatives.  

 

It has been a gradual process of people realising that he is electable. But it's onward and upward from here (in saying that he is not PM yet).

 

 

It's a bit like financial crisis that we go through time and time again, as the people that remember the last one retire or move on you get sufficient numbers that come through that have no memory of or practical experience of the last crisis ... and that sets us up for the next one.

 

So the young people that view Corbyn as a wise grandad with all the answers to our problems, they like his policies but have no collective memory of the dire state the country was in when these policies were tried in practice. So we're back to the failed policies of the 1970's with a Corbyn Government, and then a very long haul to reverse the damage done. 

 

Brexit - what's not to like?