Shock UK exit poll suggests Britain's May fails to win majority

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The risk, could be, maybe, might happen. The constant fear mongering since before the EU referendum day is staggering. project fear didn't work. It won't work again. The EU with their ;bully boy' tactics and we will punish you for this and that. The people of the UK who can still think for themselves will be happy once they are out of the EU clutches.

 

Having penalties for not doing as we say, is dictatorship. Not for me thank you and for 17 plus million others.

"The EU with their ;bully boy' tactics and we will punish you for this and that"

 

Not that I have seen; quite the reverse actually.

[Khun Han]

57 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

"Having penalties for not doing as we say, is dictatorship. Not for me thank you and for 17 plus million others."

If that was the intention of the author of the above sentence, as constituted it doesn't work. The EU isn't threatening to mulct the UK for disobedience but for withdrawing from the EU which the UK is doing in accordance with the applicable statutes.

 

You conveniently ignored my reference to the Eastern European states being bullied and threatened into taking migrants that they don't and never wanted, just so that Germany can be helped out of it's self-inflicted mess.

[Johnyo]

The risk, could be, maybe, might happen. The constant fear mongering since before the EU referendum day is staggering. project fear didn't work. It won't work again. The EU with their ;bully boy' tactics and we will punish you for this and that. The people of the UK who can still think for themselves will be happy once they are out of the EU clutches.
 
Having penalties for not doing as we say, is dictatorship. Not for me thank you and for 17 plus million others.

I'm not sure what Brexiteers are complaining about. The EU say pay up, the U.K. says no way, result you can walk away with no deal and completely out. Sound good doesn't it... except the Brexiteers Tories don't have what it takes to walk away as the consequence would mean they would be unelectable for a generation so result pay and shut up.


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[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

I'm not sure what Brexiteers are complaining about. The EU say pay up, the U.K. says no way, result you can walk away with no deal and completely out. Sound good doesn't it... except the Brexiteers Tories don't have what it takes to walk away as the consequence would mean they would be unelectable for a generation so result pay and shut up.


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I would be quite happy for us to do so, and so was the government up until recently. We're complaining about the fact that the attempt to just walk away is being sabotaged at every turn by certain interests, as shown in the recent link provided by Laughing Gravy..

[citybiker]

I'm not sure what Brexiteers are complaining about. The EU say pay up, the U.K. says no way, result you can walk away with no deal and completely out. Sound good doesn't it... except the Brexiteers Tories don't have what it takes to walk away as the consequence would mean they would be unelectable for a generation so result pay and shut up.


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Incorrect, The UK Government has 'always' stated it will honour its 'liabilities' up until we leave. Which is not what the left wing media and Anti-Brexit misinterpreted as we won't pay.

The UK has investments, EU buildings accountability, personnel pensions and is part of EU banking arm, its all part of the larger fiscal package (which we never hear from the EU) only the fantasy leaving figure.

The EU has to draw up a itinerary and this will be compared against the HMG own accounts, but what is tangibly clear is what the EU maybe accused of is.....attempting to fill the fiscal black hole left by being the 2nd largest net contributor.

If you were a gym member, left and given an exacerbated outstanding bill without itemised detail would you a, accept it and b, continue paying? The complexity of the breakdown is far more important than figures of €50-100 being thrown out by disgruntled unelected officials.


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[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

"Having penalties for not doing as we say, is dictatorship. Not for me thank you and for 17 plus million others."

If that was the intention of the author of the above sentence, as constituted it doesn't work. The EU isn't threatening to mulct the UK for disobedience but for withdrawing from the EU which the UK is doing in accordance with the applicable statutes.

'Threatening to mulct' sounds not very nice.

[Johnyo]

Incorrect, The UK Government has 'always' stated it will honour its 'liabilities' up until we leave. Which is not what the left wing media and Anti-Brexit misinterpreted as we won't pay.

The UK has investments, EU buildings accountability, personnel pensions and is part of EU banking arm, its all part of the larger fiscal package (which we never hear from the EU) only the fantasy leaving figure.

The EU has to draw up a itinerary and this will be compared against the HMG own accounts, but what is tangibly clear is what the EU maybe accused of is.....attempting to fill the fiscal black hole left by being the 2nd largest net contributor.

If you were a gym member, left and given an exacerbated outstanding bill without itemised detail would you a, accept it and b, continue paying? The complexity of the breakdown is far more important than figures of €50-100 being thrown out by disgruntled unelected officials.


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I agree it will be very complex. However neither you or I have access to the accounts so we have no idea if those figures are correct or not.


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[Khun Han]

32 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

I agree it will be very complex. However neither you or I have access to the accounts so we have no idea if those figures are correct or not.


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But it's not difficult to work out that the 50 - 100 bn figures are pure fantasy though. We're currently paying a nett 8.4 bn a year and we're signed up to the assorted agreements until, I think, 2020. So, once we've left it's that amount per year until 2020 plus a settlement over the pension scheme and minus what the EU owes us for our share of real estate, etc (which they are trying to wriggle out of with their nonsense about golf clubs). No amount of imaginative accounting by the EU can escape the fact that this is basically what the financial settlement boils down to.

[Johnyo]

 
But it's not difficult to work out that the 50 - 100 bn figures are pure fantasy though. We're currently paying a nett 8.4 bn a year and we're signed up to the assorted agreements until, I think, 2020. So, once we've left it's that amount per year until 2020 plus a settlement over the pension scheme and minus what the EU owes us for our share of real estate, etc (which they are trying to wriggle out of with their nonsense about golf clubs). No amount of imaginative accounting by the EU can escape the fact that this is basically what the financial settlement boils down to.

If you can be bothered here is a more scientific explanation.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/pb_barker_brexit_bill_3feb17.pdf

I guess we will find out soon as without payment there will be no further talks.


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[Khun Han]

23 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

If you can be bothered here is a more scientific explanation.

https://www.cer.org.uk/sites/default/files/pb_barker_brexit_bill_3feb17.pdf

I guess we will find out soon as without payment there will be no further talks.


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Which essentially says the same thing as me.

[SheungWan]

On 6/14/2017 at 1:45 PM, owl sees all said:

My dad said that the only thing he sort of believed in a newspaper was the date. But only if he could check it on the wall calendar.

It must have been a thrill a minute around the dinner table.

[ilostmypassword]

Theresa May is now almost as unpopular as pre-campaign Jeremy Corbyn, finds YouGov poll

 

Now, according to new data from polling company YouGov, Theresa May is almost as unpopular as Jeremy Corbyn had been before start of the election campaign, when the Conservative lead over Labour was more than twenty points.

 

 

An extraordinary graph, plotting the popularity of both parties and their leaders over the last twelve months, shows a frankly bizarre reversal in fortunes between Labour and Conservative in the weeks before the general election.

Jeremy Corbyn’s personal approval has increased from a historic low of minus 42 to the comparatively giddy heights of zero.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-less-popular-election-2017-campaign-leader-conservative-labour-poll-yougov-a7792006.html

[owl sees all]

8 hours ago, SheungWan said:

It must have been a thrill a minute around the dinner table.

We would discuss the world's problems and how we could contribute to making the world a better, safer and more happy place.

 

There was the occasional light hearted moment when granddad would fall asleep and start to snore.

 

Elvis was new on the scene back then and we would discuss his moves, analyse his song's words and bemoan the passing of big band music. The new, clean shaven raver; Cliff Richard had just wooed the public and taken the London bus on a trip.

 

The Tories were saying that we had "never had it so good". That would be a regular discussion point.

 

Yes; those were the days!!

[rockingrobin]

14 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

I would be quite happy for us to do so, and so was the government up until recently. We're complaining about the fact that the attempt to just walk away is being sabotaged at every turn by certain interests, as shown in the recent link provided by Laughing Gravy..

We have just had an election on the basis of strengthening T.May brexit hand. The electorate voted otherwise, and reduced T.May majority, surely a rejection of the walk away argument that the government was promoting before 8th June

[Laughing Gravy]

33 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

We have just had an election on the basis of strengthening T.May brexit hand. The electorate voted otherwise, and reduced T.May majority, surely a rejection of the walk away argument that the government was promoting before 8th June

How could it be a rejection if she (TM) still had a majority. A bit like Corbyn saying he won the election.

[pitrevie]

34 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

We have just had an election on the basis of strengthening T.May brexit hand. The electorate voted otherwise, and reduced T.May majority, surely a rejection of the walk away argument that the government was promoting before 8th June

You are quite right Hard Brexit and walk away with no deal were rejected and it appears that the British electorate want what they were promised at the referendum by the principle Brexit spokesman, remaining in the single market. I see even Farage is conceding that the Norway option is back on the table as a result.

[citybiker]

How could it be a rejection if she ™ still had a majority. A bit like Corbyn saying he won the election.

It's the little facts that get the anti-Brexit brigade in a froth, it's like <deleted> Groundhog Day.


Oh, just a reminder....Official Brexit talks start Monday..




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[pitrevie]

9 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

How could it be a rejection if she (TM) still had a majority. A bit like Corbyn saying he won the election.

I don't know what it is about Brexiters but reading these posts they are the only ones that appear to mention Corbyn having won the election. No Corbyn didn't win the election and neither did May. She went from being the party with a majority over all other parties combined to being the largest party in Parliament.

It was May who called this unnecessary election seeking a mandate for Hard Brexit or walk away with no deal, that was rejected. No need to believe me just read every Tory supporting paper. She is now being forced to accept a more conciliatory approach. There are enough Remainers still in her own parliamentary party that would not accept her extreme pre-election position. It appears that the electorate are holding the Tories to the promises made by the principle spokesman for the leave campaign. 

[vogie]

This guy says it better than any politician could ever say it, 10 minutes long, but very entertaining.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

24 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

I don't know what it is about Brexiters but reading these posts they are the only ones that appear to mention Corbyn having won the election. No Corbyn didn't win the election and neither did May

Actually it was Jeremy himself who said it.

 

"Jeremy Corbyn: I think it's pretty clear who won this election. Labour is ready to serve in government"

 

It is in other papers too when he gave the interview.

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/election-2017-result-jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-ready-to-serve-minority-government-hung-parliament-a7781076.html

 

So May didn't win. Who is in downing street at the moment?  Yes her majority is smaller, yes majority.

 

Saying she didn't win is like Montenegro playing Argentina at football with Argentina scoring 8 and Montenegro scoring 0 and claiming victory. 

[owl sees all]

Just now, Laughing Gravy said:

Saying she didn't win is like Montenegro playing Argentina at football with Argentina scoring 8 and Montenegro scoring 0 and claiming victory.

I think you have a point but Argentina 1 Montenegro 0!! Much closer scoreline.

 

Onward and Upward for Corbyn and his multitude of believers who want a fairer and more just society..

[pitrevie]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Actually it was Jeremy himself who said it.

 

"Jeremy Corbyn: I think it's pretty clear who won this election. Labour is ready to serve in government"

 

It is in other papers too when he gave the interview.

http://www.independent.co.uk/News/uk/politics/election-2017-result-jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-ready-to-serve-minority-government-hung-parliament-a7781076.html

 

So May didn't win. Who is in downing street at the moment?  Yes her majority is smaller, yes majority.

 

Saying she didn't win is like Montenegro playing Argentina at football with Argentina scoring 8 and Montenegro scoring 0 and claiming victory. 

Corbyn may well have said it but that doesn't make it true neither does Brexiters repeating it ad nauseam make it true.

 

May doesn't have a working majority in Parliament except in alliance with another party but even more important than that she would probably not carry her own party with her if she tried to adopt Hard Brexit or no deal. 

 

Keep ignoring the facts and reality she went to the country seeking a large majority to force through her version of Brexit and came out of it a lot weaker. In facts its doubtful that she will survive a year.

 

[Laughing Gravy]

10 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Corbyn may well have said it but that doesn't make it true

The point I made that Corbyn said it himself not Brexiteers as you stated. Sso we have clarified that point

10 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

In facts its doubtful that she will survive a year.

 

I will agree with you on this. But it will not be Corbyn in number 10 I believe.

[nontabury]

11 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

Corbyn may well have said it but that doesn't make it true neither does Brexiters repeating it ad nauseam make it true.

 

May doesn't have a working majority in Parliament except in alliance with another party but even more important than that she would probably not carry her own party with her if she tried to adopt Hard Brexit or no deal. 

 

Keep ignoring the facts and reality she went to the country seeking a large majority to force through her version of Brexit and came out of it a lot weaker. In facts its doubtful that she will survive a year.

 

I doubt it was her version of Brexit,as she has never been a supporter of Brexit.

[pitrevie]

3 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I doubt it was her version of Brexit,as she has never been a supporter of Brexit.

Neither was Boris Johnson but its amazing what some people do for power. TM's husband explained that she always wanted to be PM and if that means ditching all your principles and what you believed in then politicians like May, Johnson, Leadsom will do that. May is not another Thatcher, Thatcher was a politician of conviction but May just has ambition. Its why I often quote Clarke although I disagree with his politics at least with people like Clarke, Cash on opposite sides of the fence re the EU neither will change their mind just to obtain political advancement. 

[alfieconn]

1 minute ago, pitrevie said:

Corbyn may well have said it but that doesn't make it true neither does Brexiters repeating it ad nauseam make it true.

 

May doesn't have a working majority in Parliament except in alliance with another party but even more important than that she would probably not carry her own party with her if she tried to adopt Hard Brexit or no deal. 

 

Keep ignoring the facts and reality she went to the country seeking a large majority to force through her version of Brexit and came out of it a lot weaker. In facts its doubtful that she will survive a year.

 

Her version of Brexit !!!!!  there's no different version's of Brexit well apart from in the remainer's eye's,  the majority voted to come out of the European Union so that is hard border's, no single market, etc etc,  all May is doing is carrying out the country's wishes !

What the remainer's are doing is exactly what is wrong with the country, that as soon as a decision is made that the minority / do gooder's / left winger's / do not agree with they all start kicking up a stink and start trying to get decisions changed hence things drag on,decisions don't get made , basically the Government cannot govern how they want to !

One example,in 2014 the Government wanted to bring in a Bill that anyone who fought for ISIS could have their British Citizenship revoked , who knocked back the bill, Corbyn, Mcdonnell and  Abbott.

[pitrevie]

12 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

The point I made that Corbyn said it himself not Brexiteers as you stated. Sso we have clarified that point

I will agree with you on this. But it will not be Corbyn in number 10 I believe.

Read many of the Brexit posts here and its the Brexiters that keep on talking about Corbyn winning as if other posters are claiming he did. I have never suggested Corbyn won anything. Its very much like the total economic meltdown that we were supposed to see following Brexit. As you know no serious financial institution ever said any such thing but for some reason Brexiter after Brexiter claims that total economic meltdown was predicted and when asked to produce evidence of any such prediction all we get is some right wing religious nut job from the states who has been making that same prediction based on his reading of the bible. 

[pitrevie]

9 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

Her version of Brexit !!!!!  there's no different version's of Brexit well apart from in the remainer's eye's,  the majority voted to come out of the European Union so that is hard border's, no single market, etc etc,  all May is doing is carrying out the country's wishes !

What the remainer's are doing is exactly what is wrong with the country, that as soon as a decision is made that the minority / do gooder's / left winger's / do not agree with they all start kicking up a stink and start trying to get decisions changed hence things drag on,decisions don't get made , basically the Government cannot govern how they want to !

One example,in 2014 the Government wanted to bring in a Bill that anyone who fought for ISIS could have their British Citizenship revoked , who knocked back the bill, Corbyn, Mcdonnell and  Abbott.

There are many different versions of Brexit such as the one offered by the principle spokesman for the leave campaign last June where we remain in the single market or was that a pack of lies? . Much like the Norway option. Even Farage is acknowledging that in view of this election result that is what May may be forced to accept. 

I don't know whether you noticed but only a short time ago the UK went to the polls to decide that exact question and guess what May was told that she couldn't do what she liked. She asked for a majority that would allow her to override even the opposition in her own party to a hard Brexit and it didn't work out too well.

[Laughing Gravy]

17 minutes ago, pitrevie said:

As you know no serious financial institution ever said any such thing

I guess Mark Carney (Bank of England Governor) and George Soros are not part of serious financial institutions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12187164/eu-referendum-mark-carney-priti-patel-suffragettes-brexit-live.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-uk-economy-eu-referendum-latest-news-what-will-happen-disintegration-george-soros-a7103946.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/brexit-eu-referendum-economy-project-fear

 

 

[pitrevie]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I guess Mark Carney (Bank of England Governor) and George Soros are not part of serious financial institutions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12187164/eu-referendum-mark-carney-priti-patel-suffragettes-brexit-live.html

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-uk-economy-eu-referendum-latest-news-what-will-happen-disintegration-george-soros-a7103946.html

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/20/brexit-eu-referendum-economy-project-fear

 

 

Once again you have provided three links that say nothing of the sort. In fact the third link merely repeats what I said and that is someone is claiming that someone said there would be total economic meltdown. By the way Gorge Soros isn't an economic institution. That there have been economic repercussions as a result of Brexit is indisputable, the pound has dropped in value is one example The Chancellor claimed that Brexit had blown a 130 billion pound hole in the public finances. May was preparing for an austerity budget had she won her thumping majority.

You will have to try again, find me any serious economic institution that predicted total economic meltdown. The only people who have ever claimed such things are Brexiters who refer to predictions of total economise meltdown being made by those in favour of Remain.