Latimer Road fire: Huge fire engulfs west London flats

[Tilacme]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

So you have no doubts that the contractor who remediated the building cut no corners, and that if they did the council would have caught them. Very trusting you are.

You are leaping to baseless conclusions.

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, Tilacme said:

Pretty sure this building is owned and managed by the Royal Borough of Kensington & Chelsea so it will comply with all regulations.

It's reportedly owned by RBKC, but managed by a private company.

 

Most residents who have been interviewed on the BBC say that they smelt burning plastic, and the pictures shown of the fire and the building now seem to indicate that the fire spread up on one side of the building from the flat on the fourth floor where the fire is thought to have started.

 

One resident has just said that about 6 months ago there was a fire in a flat in a nearby block which did not have this cladding on the outside, and the fire was contained in the flat where it started.

 

Speculation at this point is just that, speculation; but it makes you think.

[churchill]

6 minutes ago, churchill said:

I worked in a hotel in London and can confirm fire regulations were very strict with an annual inspection .

 

Not sure if the same rules apply to flats .. I lived in a flat for some time in docklands and never saw a fire inspection .. and only one exit ... which would not be allowed in a hotel .

 

I saw reports this morning that initially residents were told to stay in their flats ..... horrific 

 

see this from residents warning sometime ago that an event like this was going to happen 

 

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

 

Key questions about the Grenfell Tower fire

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/14/key-questions-about-the-grenfell-tower-fire

[mikebike]

1 minute ago, Tilacme said:

You are leaping to baseless conclusions.

I am looking at questions the investigators will ask. IF, and only if, the fire accelerated up the outside of the building there must be a reason. This is not a normal occurrence. Because it was a Borough building does not mean everything is going to be perfect.

[churchill]

Telegraph  just tweeted 

 

The Telegraph‏Verified account @Telegraph  2m2 minutes ago

More

#GrenfellTower fire: Survivors 'still being found in tower block' http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/london-fire-latest-grenfell-tower-fatalities-confirmed-residents/ …

[7by7]

David Collins, the former chair of the Grenfell Residents Association, has just been interviewed on the BBC.

 

He says that concerns over fire safety were expressed to both RBKC and the construction company during and after the refurbishment works; concerns he claims were dismissed or ignored.

[midas]

38 minutes ago, stevenl said:

I heard others say it did go off but they could not hear it until they were outside if their apartments.

 

Better to wait until facts come out.

 

Not one person I have watched being interviewed has said that

 

 

" residents reported that fire alarms had not sounded "

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/london-fire-latest-grenfell-tower-fatalities-confirmed-residents/

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, midas said:

 

Not one person I have watched being interviewed has said that

 

 

" residents reported that fire alarms had not sounded "

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/14/london-fire-latest-grenfell-tower-fatalities-confirmed-residents/

Ok, you did not hear or read about it so it didn't happen.

 

Better wait till the facts come out.

[Kabula]

I have never seen a fire spread and affect so many floors in a high rise in all my 30 years investigating and adjusting Insurance Property claims.

 

I suspect Arson; with multiple points of origin, with accelerants and fuel soaked trailers on multiple floors with many windows and doors open.

[7by7]

From the Grenfell Action Group in June 2016: RBKC Cover-up at Grenfell Tower

Quote

..........The recent abuse of RBKC residents, and RBKC’s disregard for the truth, stand as evidence of how the Royal Borough has been able to self-justify burying the legitimate concerns of the Grenfell Tower community during the recent Improvement Works to the tower.

 

In January 2016 representatives from the Grenfell Tower Residents Association attended the RBKC Housing and Property Scrutiny Committee and made serious allegations against the Kensington and Chelsea TMO and their contractors Rydons. The Scrutiny Committee was informed of a recent survey conducted by the Grenfell Tower Residents Association which indicated that 90% of residents were dissatisfied with the way the TMO had conducted the Improvement Works and that 68% of residents believed they had been lied to, threatened, pressurised or harassed by the TMO. In addition, the Scrutiny Committee was informed that residents had serious concerns about the lack of resident consultation and engagement, the lack of response to legitimate complaints, too many examples of poor workmanship and site management and failure of the RBKC and the TMO to address residents requests for adequate compensation.  6 JANUARY 2016 RBKC Minutes

 

 

[binjalin]

46 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

 

Apparently it didn't have a sprinkler system, one reason was water pressure. That was just on BBC News.

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

 

It was just re-certified by the Fire Dept and it's inconceivable that would be without a sprinkler system but, of course, we don't know for sure and await the facts 

[mikebike]

Just now, Kabula said:

I have never seen a fire spread and affect so many floors in a high rise in all my 30 years investigating and adjusting Insurance Property claims.

 

I suspect Arson; with multiple points of origin, with accelerants and fuel soaked trailers on multiple floors with many windows and doors open.

All I can say is K.I.S.S. Your suspicion would require a number of people and a conspiracy. I suspect the answer is somewhat simpler.

[7by7]

1 minute ago, Kabula said:

I have never seen a fire spread and affect so many floors in a high rise in all my 30 years investigating and adjusting Insurance Property claims.

 

I suspect Arson; with multiple points of origin, with accelerants and fuel soaked trailers on multiple floors with many windows and doors open.

 have you seen the pictures and videos?

 

The fire spread up the outside of the building.

 

 

As I said before, speculation at this point is just that, and we need to wait for the results of a proper investigation. But your theory seems the least likely!

[bdenner]

Not interested in pointing fingers --- Can't help but being transfixed by the "RT" live coverage here on the initial news break.

 

The VERY brave fire fighters appear to be doing a MAGNIFICENT job.

[ExpatOilWorker]

It did get refurbished with new cladding in 2016.

[7by7]

Metropolitan Police have just issued the following statement:

 

"We can confirm six fatalities at this time, following the fire in North Kensington. These are very early stages at this time and we do expect that figure to rise."

 

 

[Tilacme]

I am very shocked by this.  What has happened is the very thing designers of high rise buildings are supposed to avoid, fire compartmentation, surface spread of flame, passive equipment.  Something has gone horribly wrong here.

[observer90210]

Looks that bad and dishonest, maintenance and building conception is not characteristic only to Thailand, but has gone global!?

 

Deepest sympathy to those who suffered from this horrible tragedy.

Edited June 14, 2017 by observer90210

[Crossy]

Please let's stay on-topic, which is NOT, that's NOT, the WTC in NY.

 

[Crossy]

Traumatic eyewitness reports on the BBC

 

Quote "nothing you can do but watch what unfolds in front of you".

 

[Crossy]

48 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 have you seen the pictures and videos?

 

The fire spread up the outside of the building.

 

As I said before, speculation at this point is just that, and we need to wait for the results of a proper investigation. But your theory seems the least likely!

 

Eerily similar to pictures from Dubai.

 

 

[Crossy]

Even building as old as this would be compartmentalized on a unit level, leading to the "stay in place" advice.

 

A fire in one flat should be contained for 30 minutes plus. Reports seem to be that the whole building went up in that time.

 

[Black arab]

Pretty much for certain these buildings have no stipulations for sprinkler systems it would have been compartmented, the fire fed by this cladding broke through each window due to the intense heat produced by said ckadding .....imo

[Johnyo]

3rd world country. RIP to those unfortunate to be cought in this tragedy.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Rc2702]

12 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Even building as old as this would be compartmentalized on a unit level, leading to the "stay in place" advice.

 

A fire in one flat should be contained for 30 minutes plus. Reports seem to be that the whole building went up in that time.

 

This is why I say it looks odd but the black arabs experience is pointing to the cladding but it does look very odd and all at once with such verocity. It looks like the worst possible accidental fire ever.

[Khon Kaen Dave]

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I know what you mean. I have been thinking the same thing myself. I truly am hoping this was an accident.

I watched this, this morning very early on CNN.I called my daughter who is a fire fighter on blue watch at a south east london station. She said that they were on their way there. Her intel was, that it was not terrorism. Apparently it was caused by a fridge catching fire. I am waiting to hear from her, later. I hope she was right, and this is not another terrorist attack.

RIP all those who died.

[snoop1130]

Fire engulfs London tower block, at least six dead, more than 50 injured

By Kylie MacLellan and Lina Saigol

 

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Fire engulfed a 24-storey housing block in central London in the early hours on Wednesday, killing at least six people and injuring at least 50 others in an inferno that trapped residents as they slept.

 

Flames raced through the high-rise Grenfell Tower block of apartments in the north Kensington area after taking hold around 1 a.m. and witnesses reported many residents desperately calling for help from windows of upper floors.

 

More than 200 firefighters, backed up by 40 fire engines, fought for hours to try to bring the blaze, one of the biggest seen in central London in recent years, under control.

 

In late morning, London police said six people had been killed and the death toll was likely to rise.

 

Fire-fighting crews still had to reach the top four floors of the building where several hundred people live in 130 apartments.

The cause of the fire was not immediately known.

 

The block had recently undergone an 8.7 million pound ($11.08 million) refurbishment of the exterior, which included new external cladding, replacement windows and curtain wall facades.

 

Plumes of black smoke billowed high into the air over the British capital for hours after the blaze broke out. Residents rushed to escape through smoke-filled corridors after being woken up by the smell of burning.

 

London Fire Brigade said the fire engulfed all floors from the second to the top of the 24-storey block. There were reports that some residents threw themselves out of windows to escape the flames.

 

"In my 29 years of being a fire fighter, I have never ever seen anything of this scale," London Fire Brigade Commissioner Dany Cotton told reporters.

 

SAFETY QUESTIONS

 

London mayor Sadiq Khan said the fire raised questions over safety of high-rise blocks like Grenfell Tower. The BBC reported that a political deal between the government of Prime Minister Theresa May and a small Northern Irish party could be delayed because of the aftermath of the fire.

 

More than 10 hours after the fire broke out London fire brigade said it was still working to bring the fire under control, though the building was not in danger of collapse.

 

Firefighters rescued large numbers of people from the 43-year-old block, a low rent housing estate which rubs alongside up-scale parts of the Kensington area and highlights the disparities of wealth in the British capital.

 

London Ambulance Service said more than 50 people had been taken to hospital. A witness told Reuters she feared not all the residents had escaped the fire. Some were evacuated in their pyjamas.

 

"I looked through the spy hole and I could see smoke everywhere and the neighbours are all there. There's a fireman shouting 'get down the stairs'," one of the block's residents, Michael Paramasivan, told BBC radio. "It was an inferno."

 

"As we went past the fourth floor it was completely thick black smoke. As we’ve gone outside I’m looking up at the block and it was just going up. It was like pyrotechnics. It was just unbelievable how quick it was burning."

 

"There was bits of building falling off all around me, I scalded my shin on a hot piece of metal that had fallen off the building," said Jodie Martin, who lives close to the building and sought to save people from the fire.

 

"I was just screaming at people: 'Get out, get out' and they were screaming back at me: 'We can't, the corridors are full of smoke'," he told BBC Radio.

 

RESIDENTS' CONCERN

 

Local residents said they had warned repeatedly over fire safety in the block.

 

London's mayor Khan said questions needed to be answered over the safety of tower blocks after some residents said they had been advised they should stay in their flats in the event of a fire.

 

A local residents association had previously warned it was worried about the risk of a serious fire in the block.

 

"These questions are really important questions that need to be answered," Khan said.

 

"What we can't have is a situation where people's safety is put at risk because of bad advice being given or if it is the case, as has been alleged, of tower blocks not being properly serviced or maintained."

 

Ash Sha, 30, who witnessed the fire and has an aunt in the building who managed to escape from the second floor, said the local council had recently renovated the tower.

 

"They cladded the outside and insulated the inside," Sha said. "The insulated material is very similar to sponge so it crumbles in your hand. This was just done to tart it up and match the nearby building."

 

The local council of Kensington and Chelsea, which owns the block, said it was focusing on supporting the rescue and relief operation. It said the causes of the fire would be fully investigated.

 

Police closed the A40, a major road leading out of west London, while some parts of London's underground train network were closed as a precaution.

 

($1 = 0.7852 pounds)

 

(Additional reporting by Toby Melville, Neil Hall, Subrat Patnaik, Alistair Smout and Costas Pitas; Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-6-14

[overherebc]

2 hours ago, Kabula said:

I have never seen a fire spread and affect so many floors in a high rise in all my 30 years investigating and adjusting Insurance Property claims.

 

I suspect Arson; with multiple points of origin, with accelerants and fuel soaked trailers on multiple floors with many windows and doors open.

You really don't believe that do you??

[evadgib]

Statement on Grenfell Tower: 14 June 2017

[overherebc]

It's still live on BBC and more and more fingers are being pointed at the cladding causing the fire to go so quickly up the outside of the building. The space between the cladding and the building helping to feed in air and causing it to burn so quickly.