Deadly tower blaze highlights London's rich-poor divide

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, alfieconn said:

You originally said,

A. Part of it is social housing  B. the other part would have been sold to Council tenant's,

 

So who are the unscrupulous landlords ?  and why are they unscrupulous ? charge of criminal negligence bought against who ?  

You misquote me.

 

As I understand it, the management of this housing was out sourced. The council tax in the area was unusually low and safety was obviously of low consideration. Council housing stock is very low and this block has cheap aesthetic refurb.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Grouse

[thaibeachlovers]

21 minutes ago, Briggsy said:

How has a fire been twisted into a class war with overtones of racism against immigrants in the press in under 48 hours?

Because the council spent millions making a low class housing project pretty for the rich nobs that live in the area while spending nothing on safety inside, despite being informed that it was a fire risk. No sprinklers, no fire alarms.

What's the chance that the social housing will be rebuilt there, or if it will become more "nobs" expensive housing?

[alfieconn]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

You misquote me.

 

As I understand it, the management of this housing was out sourced. The council tax in the area was unusually low and safety was obviously of low consideration. Council housing stock is very low and this block has cheap aesthetic refurb.

Sorry missed a bit ,

You originally said :  sell off Council housing and allow unscrupulous landlords to make "a killing". 

 

So who are the unscruplous landlord's ? and why are they unscrupulous ? 

[AGareth2]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

no fire alarms.

read the account of the survivor

Edited June 16, 2017 by AGareth2

[soalbundy]

Just now, Grouse said:

"If they were unhappy with their accommodations, they had the option of moving. Perhaps if they  did not expect subsidized housing, that would help."

 

Many met a horrific death. The Statement above is inappropriate and offensive.

 

I am in no way politically correct but nor am I a sick inhumane ape either!

'They had the option of moving' is wrong considering the enormous amount of money being charged for rents in the private sector but however wrong, it is an opinion which he has the right to express. People meet with horrific deaths in this world every day, it is merely news if your family isn't involved. 25 million people will suffer hunger or death by starvation in Africa in the near future, should i choke on my bacon and eggs ? If you find a comment offensive it is down to your sensibility, you can respond by putting your own point of view forward (not necessarily calling them an inhuman ape though) I was also surprised to see that many of the victims were our brothers and sisters from a distant continent and yet we have homeless Brits and ex-servicemen sleeping on the streets, priorities have gotten muddled up somewhere along the line.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

read the account of the survivor

I was going by the accounts of the survivors on tv.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, alfieconn said:

Sorry missed a bit ,

You originally said :  sell off Council housing and allow unscrupulous landlords to make "a killing". 

 

So who are the unscruplous landlord's ? and why are they unscrupulous ? 

My comment was a generalisation. Unscrupulous or money grabbing landlords are a relatively new aspect of UK housing. This has arisen due to multiple duff government decisions over the last 40 years. Rental sector is FAR better in Germany and not frowned upon. Clearly our decision to drop high quality SAFE Council housing was a massive mistake. Private sector housing inflation has crippled the country. So much Ill gotten wealth for no productive effort. Only in the U.K. And let the devil take the hindmost.

 

Buy-to-Let, what a scam!

 

Sell off Council housing so the stock is very low. People have little choice but to deal with unscrupulous types. 

 

Victorian villas butchered into 6 crap flats. These landlords think a bit of dry lining and laminate flooring and all's well. Well it isn't!

 

We're losing the plot....

Edited June 16, 2017 by Grouse

[dogpatch55]

To say they had the option of moving is talking a load of <deleted>! Just because people meet with horrific deaths every day does not make this ok!  It does not matter where these people came from, they should not have died! Nor should there be any homeless Brits or anyone else sleeping on the streets of the UK or anywhere else for that matter!

[dogpatch55]

Making money is all that matters to some people. There has always been bad landlords in the UK, the sad thing is there still are!  We should have got rid of them  years ago!! And a fire like this should not be happening in the UK in this day and age!!

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Grouse said:

. Only in the U.K. And let the devil take the hindmost.

 

 

New Zealand is probably worse. At least they still have social housing in the UK.

In NZ families are living in cars.

The pension doesn't pay enough to rent a one bedroom flat and not enough social housing.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

We seem, or maybe it's just me, to be missing some facts.

The building management  is outsourced. Well, that might be a fact but I wonder to whom? Is it a "Housing Association" or a private Property Management company? Does the council still own the building?

We know the MP has just changed to Labour, but who has been running the local council? Who is head of housing policy? Who approved the refurb. plans?  Architects? Building contractors?

The fire brigade have been brave and heroic but surely the building was inspected by a Fire Officer in recent times, certainly since the refurbishment I would expect. Were the findings and recommendations ignored? If so by whom?

These things are relevant, but I have so far seen no mention of this in either the media or on this TV thread.

Briefly on the residents, some might well have less regard for safety if they are from a different culture, fire doors propped open maybe,  but the root cause of the fire has not yet been determined.

However we should not jump to conclusions. There are a lot of unanswered questions before we point fingers at current politicians to score a few very sad points.. The building is 40+ years old, but it's shortcomings should have been addressed during the refurbishment.

If they weren't then why not is going to be the biggest question, but I can see a lot of buck passing going on...

It is a terrible way to die and a horrible tragedy.

All those involved have my deepest sympathy.

 

Edited June 16, 2017 by George FmplesdaCosteedback

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

Seems the council is a Tory majority, not a big surprise.

There are other questions though as I have pointed out.

[Here It Is]

2 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

The fire brigade have been brave and heroic but surely the building was inspected by a Fire Officer in recent times, certainly since the refurbishment I would expect. Were the findings and recommendations ignored? If so by whom?

Extremely good point and something that I keep returning to in my mind.

 

I don't blame the Fire Brigade as they're not there to test the design to death but merely retain normal order within the framework of the current regulations.

 

This goes much higher up and the budget of the refurb will come under close scrutiny in the months to come.  

 

Anyway, horrible way to die and the evidence of people texting / calling their loved ones to inform them that they 'won't make it' is extremely sad.  I certainly don't want to die like that, knowing that your doom is imminent.  More importantly is that I don't want my young wife to meet this fate.  I'll go first to make sure she makes it, if I can. 

[lamyai3]

16 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Yeah, but. . .  excuse me if I do a little editing here.

 

In a shock election result last week, the ruling Conservatives, who emphasise fiscal discipline, low tax and pro-business credentials, screwing the working classes, lost ground to the opposition Labour Party

Yeah but... No but...

I'd completely forgotten the delightful Vicki Pollard 555 

[Top man]

18 hours ago, sanemax said:

The area isnt and never has been "Cockney" , Cockneys come from the otherside of town

Give it a rest mate, we all know he meant londoners.

Edited June 16, 2017 by Top man
Spelling

[shanesox]

Seems the council is a Tory majority, not a big surprise.
There are other questions though as I have pointed out.

And labour MP for area was on housing committee, what was said about it then? Typical Socialist hypocrisy! http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labours-new-kensington-mp-was-on-housing-scrutiny-committee-a3566661.html


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[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

18 hours ago, shanesox said:

And labour MP for area was on housing committee, what was said about it then? Typical Socialist hypocrisy! http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/labours-new-kensington-mp-was-on-housing-scrutiny-committee-a3566661.html


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Thanks for that, these are the things we need to know.

I hope it makes all the British press and media, not just Osbourne's Standard, but I doubt you will see it in The Mirror.

[toofarnorth]

In about 86-87 I bought a house in Plymouth Devon . It had been built in '73 I believe . It was a 3 story house but ours had a bedroom built into the roof , a dormer bedroom . Some one along the road asked if I still had the plans for the dormer bedroom as he wanted to build the same in the roof.

I gave him the plans but they were rejected as a fire risk , no escape  .  So building plans have changed a lot since the '70s.

[CharlieK]

What is the Mayor of London doing about the situation, it seems to me that all the blame is being pushed onto the PM. But the Mayor is responsible for London so why hasn't he organised things to help those made homeless after the fire. The whole thing has been turned political to bash the government. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by CharlieK

[PattayaJames]

A tragedy, yes.

However it came to be that non fire proof cladding was used is the cause.

I wish i could afford to live in Chelsea, still as I am British and worked all my life and therefore would be required to self fund, unfortunately it is beyond my reach. Pattaya, I can afford.

[7by7]

1 hour ago, PattayaJames said:

A tragedy, yes.

However it came to be that non fire proof cladding was used is the cause.

I wish i could afford to live in Chelsea, still as I am British and worked all my life and therefore would be required to self fund, unfortunately it is beyond my reach. Pattaya, I can afford.

 I don't live in Chelsea, but do live in what is considered to be an affluent town in North West Surrey with an average house prices ranging from over £300K for a two bed flat up.

 

I am British born and have worked all my life, but cannot afford to buy. I live in a housing association flat. Many of my neighbours are the same. My late brother lived in a housing association house, his widow still does.

 

Your comment is rubbish and only proves your ignorance.

[Dagnabbit]

Rich/poor divide?

Should people in govt housing be given Ferarris?

What is this divisive nonsense?

Of course millionaires will live in better conditions than those on handouts.

The rich are not responsible for this, the govt are.


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[PattayaJames]

13 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 I don't live in Chelsea, but do live in what is considered to be an affluent town in North West Surrey with an average house prices ranging from over £300K for a two bed flat up.

 

I am British born and have worked all my life, but cannot afford to buy. I live in a housing association flat. Many of my neighbours are the same. My late brother lived in a housing association house, his widow still does.

 

Your comment is rubbish and only proves your ignorance.

Yes, I am ignorant of the handouts. I always paid my own way.

[RuamRudy]

20 minutes ago, Dagnabbit said:

Rich/poor divide?

Should people in govt housing be given Ferarris?

What is this divisive nonsense?

Of course millionaires will live in better conditions than those on handouts.

The rich are not responsible for this, the govt are.


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I don't see anyone advocating giving poor people Ferarris - the only mention of such garbage is from those with an agenda to stigmatise the poor. 

 

 

[baboon]

On 2017-6-16 at 10:27 AM, geriatrickid said:

If they were unhappy with their accommodations, they had the option of moving. Perhaps if they  did not expect subsidized housing, that would help.

That is one scummy post. Not everyone is rootless even if you are, nor does life often offer such simplistic choices as 'Just move somewhere else, then', or 'Find another job if you don't like it'.

Shame on you for posting such excrement. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by baboon

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

8 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 I don't live in Chelsea, but do live in what is considered to be an affluent town in North West Surrey with an average house prices ranging from over £300K for a two bed flat up.

 

I am British born and have worked all my life, but cannot afford to buy. I live in a housing association flat. Many of my neighbours are the same. My late brother lived in a housing association house, his widow still does.

 

Your comment is rubbish and only proves your ignorance.

You are very fortunate to have social housing in such an affluent area.

Not many get that opportunity. Were you born in the area?

You are not alone, people in deprived areas find it difficult to get social housing, let alone buy, and pay commercial rents.

The councils neglected the opportunity to build more houses and flats with the money raised from selling their properties to tenants, and after  10 years of New Labour the situation hadn't changed.

 

[Ron19]

An off topic post and a reply to it have been removed, please keep on topic.