TR visa strangeness at a Thai consulate in USA

[Marc K]

I was shocked recently when i applied for a TR visa at my local Thai consulate in USA. First of all, I've been getting TRs at this consulate for at least the last 10 years (I spend 90 days a year in Thailand). I was startled this time when asked to produce --

 

1. "flight itinerary"  -- the strange part is that apparently it is only needed for the inbound flight, good thing since I will leave by bus (to Cambodia) and therefore only had an inbound reservation (which I printed from my cellphone)
2. "bank account" -- I had to prove I had $700 in my bank account. $700? Is it worth the trouble? I asked the consul what this was all about and the consul replied that apparently the government wants to make sure you have enough money to fly home should the IO deny you entry at the airport. Huh? That doesn't make a great deal of sense to me, but hey I was able to scrounge around and find my bank statement online from my bank and was able to print it out at the consulate.

 

I have never, ever been asked to show such documents in the past, and really wasn't prepared to show them. It's no big deal (it took me almost an hour to complete the process) but nonetheless it made me feel like I wasn't really welcome to visit Thailand. I really don't think this is a good way to promote tourism. I probably should have just used a visa-exempt entry, saved the $40 fee, but I wanted to respect the meaning of a TR. Instead I just got hassled. Not good. Maybe I should consider just spending more time in Cambodia?!?

 

Also, I can confirm that neither METVs or O-A visas can be issued at this consulate.

 

PS On another issue, whatever happened to the joint Thai-Cambodian (ASEAN) visa?? I guess it never materialized.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

1. Nothing new at most embassies and consulates.

2. Also not new but not often asked for. The $700 is to meet the 20k baht financial proof requirement to get any visa.

You were apparently applying at a honorary consulate. Only the embassy in DC and the 3 official consulates can issue multiple entry visas since August of last year. Some honorary consulates were allowed to issue OA visas several years ago but that ended long ago.

Very few embassies and consulates ever offered the Thai/Cambodia visa. I don't think it is even available now.

[Marc K]

Yes, it is an honorary consulate. I guess I just can't get over the negative impact this had on my anticipation to visit LOS this time. A real downer. I have read TV for a long time but I just didn't feel prepared for the seeming "cold shoulder" I received by piling on all this bureaucracy, and for what reason? Is this the new Thai government's way to encourage tourism? Very strange. TOT is wasting its time if this is how the visa process is meant to work.

[Swiss1960]

Yes, it is an honorary consulate. I guess I just can't get over the negative impact this had on my anticipation to visit LOS this time. A real downer. I have read TV for a long time but I just didn't feel prepared for the seeming "cold shoulder" I received by piling on all this bureaucracy, and for what reason? Is this the new Thai government's way to encourage tourism? Very strange. TOT is wasting its time if this is how the visa process is meant to work.

Have a look at the US from an outside perspective and think about the US government's way to encourage tourism... Just last week, two female Swiss students were declined entry at the airport, because the US IO suspected them to want to work, because he thought that they were not having enough money for the trip...

 

Sent from my HTC 10 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[tonray]

You're upset because they asked you to show you are actually going to Thailand and not wasting their time and that they want you to show proof of $700 bucks so you do not become another farang selling travel photos outside of Victory Monument ?

 

These are not very restrictive conditions for a Visa. 

Edited June 17, 2017 by tonray

[IMA_FARANG]

Old  news to us who live here.

We have seen the downgrading of The Thai LOS attitude over the last few years as Tourism has become a "Money making enterprise" here in Thailand.

Fortunately I get a monthly pension from the U.S. Social Security and still can afford to pay my way in Thailand as a retiree here.

So far anyhow.

Otherwise I could say that LOS no longer stands for Land Of Smiles, but Land Of Scams.

 

 

 

[Marc K]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The $700 is to meet the 20k baht financial proof requirement to get any visa.

Thanks ubonjoe for your explanations. I appreciate them, not that I feel much better about the hassles and additional bureaucratic burdens.

 

As for the USD700/THB20k -- I thought this was a matter of perhaps being asked by the IO upon arrival at BKK? I didn't realize the documentation of this measly amount of money was to be done at time of visa application in your home country. Or is it BOTH??

 

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, Marc K said:

As for the USD700/THB20k -- I thought this was a matter of perhaps being asked by the IO upon arrival at BKK? I didn't realize the documentation of this measly amount of money was to be done at time of visa application in your home country. Or is it BOTH??

It is for both. It is has been a requirement for many years to get a visa.

This from the MFA website under the requirements for a tourist visa. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15398-Issuance-of-Visa.html

Quote

Evidence of adequate finance (20,000 Baht per person and 40,000 Baht per family)

 

[rak sa_ngop]

You're upset because they asked you to show you are actually going to Thailand and not wasting their time and that they want you to show proof of $700 bucks so you do not become another farang selling travel photos outside of Victory Monument ?

He is selling travel photos outside Silom Complex these days!

[YetAnother]

20 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It is has been a requirement for many years to get a visa.

hmmm; i visited thailand 32 times from 2000 thru 2010 (visa on arrival) and i never even once had to prove any of the above; just lucky ?

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, tonray said:

You're upset because they asked you to show you are actually going to Thailand and not wasting their time and that they want you to show proof of $700 bucks so you do not become another farang selling travel photos outside of Victory Monument ?

 

These are not very restrictive conditions for a Visa. 

He is paying for a visa - not wasting their time.  What are the odds he is going to become some farang asking to get busted for working illegally out in the open selling photos? 

I think it is just a matter of "Boss says we have to ask for this"

 

To the OP - 99% of Thais are still glad to see you here.  Yes, we have come a long way since years past, when Thai Consulates in Western countries would try to up-sell you to a 1-year Non-O Visa "to visit friends."   It's just a few in certain bureaucratic circles who seem to prefer Chinese tourists - so much so, they are still giving them "free visas" so that 1000 Baht savings can make their frugal trips here possible. 

 

Also, be sure and have 20K Baht of Cash or Travelers Checks on your person when you arrive at the airport-checkpoint, or they can claim you "don' t have the money" and refuse to let you enter.  The way that rule works is, you show 20K Baht "in the bank" to get your visa, then show 20K Baht "in cash" when you arrive.  Yes, it is silly when the air-ticket just to get here from the USA is twice that amount or more - but be prepared, so you have nothing to worry about.

 

1 hour ago, YetAnother said:

hmmm; i visited thailand 32 times from 2000 thru 2010 (visa on arrival) and i never even once had to prove any of the above; just lucky ?

For Visa-Exempt, you did not have to show anything to get a visa - because you did not apply for a visa.  You could be asked to show 10K Baht of cash or travelers checks at the Thai-checkpoint (vs 20K with a 60-day visa) - though this was much less common until recently.

Edited June 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

He is paying for a visa - not wasting their time.  What are the odds he is going to become some farang asking to get busted for working illegally out in the open selling photos? 

I think it is just a matter of "Boss says we have to ask for this"

 

To the OP - 99% of Thais are still glad to see you here.  Yes, we have come a long way since years past, when Thai Consulates in Western countries would try to up-sell you to a 1-year Non-O Visa "to visit friends."   It's just a few in certain bureaucratic circles who seem to prefer Chinese tourists - so much so, they are still giving them "free visas" so that 1000 Baht savings can make their frugal trips here possible. 

 

Also, be sure and have 20K Baht of Cash or Travelers Checks on your person when you arrive at the airport-checkpoint, or they can claim you "don' t have the money" and refuse to let you enter.  The way that rule works is, you show 20K Baht "in the bank" to get your visa, then show 20K Baht "in cash" when you arrive.  Yes, it is silly when the air-ticket just to get here from the USA is twice that amount or more - but be prepared, so you have nothing to worry about.

 

For Visa-Exempt, you did not have to show anything to get a visa - because you did not apply for a visa.  You could be asked to show 10K Baht of cash or travelers checks at the Thai-checkpoint (vs 20K with a 60-day visa) - though this was much less common until recently.

The Visa fee likely barely covers employee time and expense at USA location. It sometimes is a waste of time.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, tonray said:

The Visa fee likely barely covers employee time and expense at USA location. It sometimes is a waste of time.

I would uess it is more likely a way to see if the question on the application "When are you planning on coming to Thailand" is accurate/defined.   You may be right on cost - but I really don't think people are buying up Thai TR visas they don't intend to use, just because it was easy.

[tonray]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

I would uess it is more likely a way to see if the question on the application "When are you planning on coming to Thailand" is accurate/defined.   You may be right on cost - but I really don't think people are buying up Thai TR visas they don't intend to use, just because it was easy.

Correct I think....they also use it to generate tourist statistics, planned visitors during various time frames so they can schedule promotions, tours, etc etc.

[Foozool]

LA consulate asked me for copy of bank statement 2 years ago. Noting new.

 

[Chip Allen]

I went to an honorary consulate in Montgomery, Alabama and had none of these problems. Surely there is an honorary consulate in your state, as well. Path of least resistance and all that. 

[Suradit69]

8 hours ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Old  news to us who live here.

It's not news of any sort, neither old or new, to some of us who live here. Some people can manage to project negativity onto anything because of their personal problems.

[rosst]

9 hours ago, tonray said:

You're upset because they asked you to show you are actually going to Thailand and not wasting their time and that they want you to show proof of $700 bucks so you do not become another farang selling travel photos outside of Victory Monument ?

 

These are not very restrictive conditions for a Visa. 

You are correct but being aware of these restrictions and requirements would help. 

The constant changes and differences depending on which place you apply adds to the frustration. 

[Helios]

I don't find that strange at all. What's strange is that they have never asked for any of this in the 10 years you've been applying even once. You're lucky by the way. My local embassy asks for return tickets, bank account statements and a written letter as to why I want to visit Thailand. 

 

Thailand has changed a lot recently with requirements regarding many types of visas and you can see from other posters here on Thaivisa that the pain reaches far and wide. Big changes are coming to Thailand.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Helios

[geisha]

Most countries including Europe , Britain and the USA have quite strict rules concerning visas. I don't see what's wrong with Thailand following , especially when there are a lot of un savoury travellers hitting the sky these days. I think a bit more screening is necessary, everywhere. 

[JackThompson]

31 minutes ago, geisha said:

Most countries including Europe , Britain and the USA have quite strict rules concerning visas. I don't see what's wrong with Thailand following , especially when there are a lot of un savoury travellers hitting the sky these days. I think a bit more screening is necessary, everywhere. 

Screening for dangerous people?  Sure.  But $700 in the bank and flight-tickets won't help much with that.  Criminal database-interconnections are the key.

 

Europe and the USA have more-strict rules to prevent economic-migrants coming from places where jobs pay less, and taking jobs from citizens and driving down wages, destroying local families.    If only they took that job more seriously, but business-interests like the low-wage labor, so those who simply "break-in" are allowed to stay and take jobs from us at home.

Westerners are coming to Thailand from places where jobs pay more*, so are infinitely more likely to spend foreign-money into Thailand, rather than take Thai-money and "send it home" out of their economy - making Thailand poorer.  (* for now, anyway - maybe not after 10 more years of mass-migration into the West)

 

With regard to migrants entering Thailand from poorer countries, strange that they have special loopholes we don't to enter (like no 2x/yr limit at land-borders)?  I suspect business-interests, are at it, same as in our home-countries, undermining local citizens ability to earn a decent living.  For factory-work, they don't have much choice, as the factories would move to Vietnam if they could not hire Cambodians for 1/2 the Thai wage.  It's not that labor-cost is even a significant portion of the retail-price - rather that 10,000 workers making 150 Baht less/day adds up to a nice "board of directors" bonus.

Edited June 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[ericthai]

8 hours ago, YetAnother said:

hmmm; i visited thailand 32 times from 2000 thru 2010 (visa on arrival) and i never even once had to prove any of the above; just lucky ?

I dont believe you got a visa on arrival more like a visa exempt. The IO can ask to see 20K and outbound ticket within 30 days. However, you only came to Thailand on average 3 times a year so they dont suspect you living in Thailand full time, so you just cruse through immigration. If you have allot of back to back visas or exempt then you would most likely be questioned and asked to show 20K etc. 

[Time Traveller]

Don't  all countries require Tourist visa applications to have proof of funds and flight itinery ?

Even many countries ask for a lot more, such as hotel booking and sometimes letter of invitation or sponsor.

 

I don't see what the problem is being asked to show proof of funds, except it's ridiculous to expect people to show flight bookings before they even have a visa allowing them to travel. Normally people buy tickets after they have the visa

[YetAnother]

22 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

the embassy in DC and the 3 official consulates

i have contacted all 4 when in the usa some time ago; they all behave differently; ask the same questions and might get different answers; the LA version was the nicest and they insinuated i could use their services even tho i was near chicago; i ended up using chicago and it was all done by mail; worked fine

that was more than a few years ago...

[JayBird]

We have to adopt to the new attitude:

 

Foreigners are not wanted here, they are tolerated here.

 

Therefore any and all justification to deny you is considered, rather than any justification to accept you.

 

Apparently unless you are Chinese on a zero dollar tour.

[BritTim]

On 6/17/2017 at 10:24 AM, Marc K said:

PS On another issue, whatever happened to the joint Thai-Cambodian (ASEAN) visa?? I guess it never materialized.

I contacted the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok last January to ask about the ACMECS  visa. The consul told me that it had been possible for them to issue it, but it was now discontinued. I had the idea that it could provide a way of getting a Thai tourist visa before even leaving Thailand which could be very convenient if not wanting to spend several days in Phnom Penh.

[BritTim]

On 6/17/2017 at 11:56 AM, tonray said:

You're upset because they asked you to show you are actually going to Thailand and not wasting their time ...

I really do not think there are hordes of people with no intention of visiting Thailand who are spending money applying for Thai visas just to mess with them. The requirement to prove you are going to Thailand in order to apply for a Thai visa has always mystified me.

[Gulfsailor]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

I really do not think there are hordes of people with no intention of visiting Thailand who are spending money applying for Thai visas just to mess with them. The requirement to prove you are going to Thailand in order to apply for a Thai visa has always mystified me.

Not a real mystery. It's a way to proof that someone is actually in the country of the consulate from which they are applying the visa, if they apply by mail. Otherwise you'd have people in Thailand or a neighboring country sending their passports to a friend back home and they forward it to a friendly local honorary consulate to get the visa, after which they'd send it back to the original holder. The alternative is that one needs to apply in person (which by the way is the requirement at more and more consulates and embassies nowadays). 

[BritTim]

35 minutes ago, Gulfsailor said:

Not a real mystery. It's a way to proof that someone is actually in the country of the consulate from which they are applying the visa, if they apply by mail. Otherwise you'd have people in Thailand or a neighboring country sending their passports to a friend back home and they forward it to a friendly local honorary consulate to get the visa, after which they'd send it back to the original holder. The alternative is that one needs to apply in person (which by the way is the requirement at more and more consulates and embassies nowadays). 

In many cases, the requirement exists at consulates where you can only apply for the visa in person (a pretty good indication that you are in the country unless you have a doppelganger who can apply on your behalf) That is without considering that cancelable flight reservations are pretty easy  to arrange if you are willing to go to the trouble of applying via a third party. It can also be pretty inconvenient having to show a flight ticket from some country to Thailand, when your intention is to fly to Singapore and enter Thailand by land after visiting other countries in the region. Frankly, paranoia about someone sending their passport from abroad to a friend to get a visa and then have it posted back seems absurd. How often do they think they are preventing idiots risking their passports in this way to get a single entry tourist visa?

[PaPiPuPePo]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:23 AM, geisha said:

Most countries including Europe , Britain and the USA have quite strict rules concerning visas. I don't see what's wrong with Thailand following , especially when there are a lot of un savoury travellers hitting the sky these days. I think a bit more screening is necessary, everywhere. 

 

Poor comparison. 1st world countries are destinations for countless numbers of people seeking work without permits and access to 1st world social services, thus making them potential economic burdens.

 

The chance of a visitor to Thailand creating similar problems is much, much smaller, though of course it exists.

 

The US and Europe are also targets of terrorists to a much greater extent than Thailand is.

 

Tourism adds a tiny amount to the US economy compared to Thailand; IOW we need them much less than Thailand does.

 

So you can't compare the two/three.