American tourist who died at remote waterfall "insulted the spirits" say Koh Samui locals

[Essaybloke]

10 minutes ago, maximillian said:

Mind you, Westerners have their funny believes as well, and quite a few.

Go to rural Portugal, Spain, Italy, France, Poland and even Scandinavia, you'll find similar kind of BS.

Yep you're right. Just google 'Catholic Church'

 

'nuff said

[Essaybloke]

44 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

actually, most Thais have a reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind...

and have YOU seen how the WORLD treats the animals that you EAT???

Hi Miss jenifer d I have lived in Thailand for a long time. From what I have seen from Pattaya to Chantaburi and Surin and back, (my usual journeys) it seems from my experience that Thais treat their environment with exactly the same levels of regard or disregard as do farangs, indeed on many occasions I have been appalled at some of their levels of  'reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind...'

How do you know that most Thais "have a reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind"?

[BangrakBob]

10 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, things like religion were created to control people and for someone reason it's still working. Now we are progressing as societies and we can use law and order to deter people from doing harm. We can use science to to deter people from trying to defy gravity, etc. 

 

Using knowledge we can move forward and progress as a species. Using old nonsensical superstitious claptrap keeps some people in the stone ages. Opinions never change facts. People have the right to believe in whatever they want. Just like other people have the right to think that belief is stupid and detrimental to our well-being and progression. 

Buddhism is not a religion

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

It wants so NOT to be a 3rd World country, but has too many things to change first.

I agree.

 

The Thais that I come into contact with don't care if they are 3rd world, 4th world or 10th world. They just want a fair share of the country that belongs to them after all.

[Tchooptip]

10 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

superstition..... but quite harmless and one of the many things that make Thailand a special place.... may it continue and Thailand not become the sterile dull place that Western Europe has become.

[sambum]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

no ulterior motive; just tired of repeatedly defending myslef when the facts of my existence speak for themselves-

personally, i don't give a rat's patootie if one wishes to remain ignorant- my publisher and agent pay me anyways...

when i moved here 7 1/2 years ago, my longtime agent said

"jenifer, i've known you 30 years, and i don't believe your life- write your story (so far) and i'll do my best to sell it!"

 

 "my longtime agent" So what were you in your "previous" life?

[owl sees all]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

many here on this forum hate me because i am a HARD LINER regarding NOT being a colonist;

if somebody lives here and doesn't bother to speak the language and at least respect the culture and spirituality-

they are nothing better than a modern-day colonist, and maybe they should NOT be here.

I'm sure no one actually hates you Jenifer it's just that you are different and hard to understand because most of us deal in truth rather than superstition.

 

Don't think you have the monopoly on love and caring. I also love Thailand but I'm not blind to the injustices of the place.

Edited June 20, 2017 by owl sees all

[canuckamuck]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

actually, most Thais have a reverence for nature that is completely unfathomable to the western mind...

and have YOU seen how the WORLD treats the animals that you EAT???

How exactly do you see this reverence in action. Is it it the total lack of empathy for animals? Is it the continuous littering,  the slash and burn agriculture, the raw sewage spilling into the sea? Perhaps it is the fact that they have hunted nearly every animal bigger than a rat to extinction, or maybe the fact that chainsaws are banned because, if they weren't, there wouldn't be a tree left standing.

You would think that they are actually at war with nature. But you obviously look through a different filter. The same one that makes you think they see you as Thai.

 

[rkidlad]

19 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

Buddhism is not a religion

Yes, it is. And Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Google it. 

[paddyjoe41]

In answer to DABOYZ1, depends how much money is in his pocket,RIP.

[55Jay]

@jenifer d  

 

Getting back to the OP, is it actually possible for a spirit to be insulted by a human, and the latter to exact revenge or retribution on them in return?  

 

Do you agree this presents a danger to humans, tourists, et al, and should be taken very seriously by the concerned authorities?  What would you propose to ensure harmony between tourists at this site and the spirit(s) there?

 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

16 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, it is. And Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Google it. 

I would say that lot of the religion here is fake, when monks ask for big money for bless something you know that something is serious wrong with the Thai version of Buddism.

[BangrakBob]

21 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Yes, it is. And Thailand is the most religious country in the world. Google it. 

 Religion is a belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power.

 

Buddhism has no God, Buddha is not worshiped.

 

I suggest you research yourself, it's actually a nice way of approaching life 

[rkidlad]

2 minutes ago, BangrakBob said:

 Religion is a belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power.

 

Buddhism has no God, Buddha is not worshiped.

 

I suggest you research yourself, it's actually a nice way of approaching life 

Religion is the worship of a god/s or a set of ideas. Buddhism is the belief that you keep coming back until you're enlightened. That idea is worshipped. There does not need to be a god to make it a religion. 

 

Buddha may not want to have been worshipped, but he is. Hence the giant statues of gold. He's merely a lucky charm used to garner luck for a better next life or a winning lottery ticket. 

 

[hotchilli]

I wonder if it's similar to all the "spirits of the balconies"??

[lvr181]

11 hours ago, ezzra said:

If you put that on your travel insurance claim they''ll start asking for the descriptions

of the 'spirit' it's make model and plate number...

Or the alcohol content.

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

superstition..... but quite harmless and one of the many things that make Thailand a special place.... may it continue and Thailand not become the sterile dull place that Western Europe has become.

Sterile & Dull? Muslims driving at Christians and vice versa. 

[55Jay]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Sterile & Dull? Muslims driving at Christians and vice versa. 

Sounds exciting.  I'll give it a miss, and stay in sterile and dull Thailand. 

[Na Lee]

It is easy to mock the local people for their beliefs, but having spent a long time in rural Asia (outside of Thailand) I have a slightly different take.
 
I always found that the local animism and the concurrent belief in 'spirits' was more a way to try and live in harmony with nature, In olden days, the easiest way to express what we now call environmentalism and common sense in dealings with nature was to ascribe what they saw to a supernatural presence, and by heeding the 'spirits', local people adapted themselves to their local conditions.
 
I think it is true that the guy slipped on a rock. That said. the local belief might actually have been saying "don't go there or you might slip on a rock". It is just expressed in a different manner.
 
Cheers
 

I dont agree, you are rationalisering from your western point of view but when you talk to Thai people and specially Isaan people they strongly believe in such phenominom nothing to do with living in harmony with nature etc. It's a Buddhist society with still strong animisme roots. TRUE in the past the unexplainable was impute to such as higher forces, spirits ghost and in the western world gods residing in walhalla or on the Olympic mountain or in the orion stellation etc. Even our beloved PM wears a lot of amulets onder his shirt to deflect evil spirits.

But still I like your post it means you thought about it and tried to explain though I think it's a bit around the bend

Sincerely [emoji4] [emoji4] [emoji4] Mommy [emoji111] [emoji111] [emoji111]

Sent from my BLL-L22 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[billd766]

7 hours ago, rkidlad said:

I didn't 'infer' anything. I 'implied' that superstitious beliefs are nonsensical and do damage to societies. 

 

Like I said; people have the right to believe in whatever they like. Just like I have the right to believe that their beliefs are horribly misinformed and for the stone age. 

 

Anyone who believes in science and not superstition 'is' literally smarter, yes. Regardless of their skin colour, sex, nationality, religion or creed. Stop making this an us Vs them thing. 

 

You are the one making it us v them.

 

I am quite happy for people to believe what they want. Niether science or religion  makes one person, tribe or race smarter than another. Only people themselves do that.

 

People believe in religion because they are comfortable with it. People believe in science for the same reason.

 

Who defines which is right?

[kaorop]

22 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

You are the one making it us v them.

 

I am quite happy for people to believe what they want. Niether science or religion  makes one person, tribe or race smarter than another. Only people themselves do that.

 

People believe in religion because they are comfortable with it. People believe in science for the same reason.

 

Who defines which is right?

Peer reviewed testing, examination and proof thats who.

I am not happy that primitive beliefs still exist in such large numbers, but as we have only just climbed down from the trees its not surprising.

 

[dinsdale]

This country will never, ever grow up. Pity really.

[hottrader77]

15 hours ago, daboyz1 said:

Will "insulted sprits" be the official cause on the death certificate? 

if you put that on the death certificate it will insult the spirits

[Jonmarleesco]

Oh dear, oh dear. Superstition gets ever more bizarre in this country.

[oldhippy]

5 hours ago, BangrakBob said:

Buddhism is not a religion

No, but we are talking about Thai buddhism. Something completely different.

 

[FarangJon]

 

Presumably the spirits of the LSD inside his brain.

[cyberfarang]

"They said that there was a shrine for "Phor Puu" in the area and there had been cases in the past of tourists urinating where they shouldn't and this had led to accidents". - Yea right, but how would dumb tourists know about that?

 

I do agree that when some tourists visit other countries they have no respect for the beliefs and cultures of those countries. To them it`s just an adventure and couldn`t care less about upsetting the locals with their antics. So if the locals have no sympathy for tourists that fall foul of their own actions, I can understand why. 

[Redline]

18 hours ago, thaifan01 said:

Well spoken, mate. Unfortunally lack of RESPECT for Thais and their culture is pretty common among tourists and expats.

 

Have a nice day :)

You can include some Thai people in that group as well, as my conversation with one of my Thai friends today validates.. The younger people are not so much into superstition.  There is a lot more to Thai culture than superstition

[Redline]

36 minutes ago, cyberfarang said:

"They said that there was a shrine for "Phor Puu" in the area and there had been cases in the past of tourists urinating where they shouldn't and this had led to accidents". - Yea right, but how would dumb tourists know about that?

 

I do agree that when some tourists visit other countries they have no respect for the beliefs and cultures of those countries. To them it`s just an adventure and couldn`t care less about upsetting the locals with their antics. So if the locals have no sympathy for tourists that fall foul of their own actions, I can understand why. 

No one said he was urinating did they?  I believe they jumped to that conclusion.  They were probably exploring?

[oldhippy]

UPDATE:

 

Locals today complained that the press completely misreported their comments, and suggested that this was part of a plan to make the locals appear stupid through fake reporting.

 

I reality, the locals had told the fake news reporters that the American gringo had insulted his spirits.

5 locals had seen him drinking coca cola with his Single Malt Scotch. Another 2 locals had witnessed him mixing Havanna Club Viejo with Fanta. And 1 - so far this is not confirmed - claims the gringo added Blue Saffire to his Leo.

 

The locals admitted that they had indeed declared that the gringo got what he deserved, but claim they never mentioned specific gods or ghosts.