American tourist who died at remote waterfall "insulted the spirits" say Koh Samui locals

[Minnehaha]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

If you put that on your travel insurance claim they''ll start asking for the descriptions

of the 'spirit' it's make model and plate number...

or brand and alcohol content

[lucjoker]

Instead of pissing near their shrine , the locals used to piss on the nearby rocks ,

this created a alge smelling like old beer  and slippery as hell !!!!!!

The tourist insulted the "Singha" spirit ........

The shrine must be a very busy place ,....if you look at the pile of empty bottles............

[rkidlad]

22 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

And the unfortunate American will be flow back to America and have a Christian Funeral with prayers and people believing he has been taken by God.. as it was his time, or the Devil or Demons killed him, and now he will have eternal life with Jesus and God on a fluffy cloud.

 

And you think the world is more developed or human minds progressed more?

Well, as an atheist, I have. I implore people regardless of nationality to do the same. 

[hgma]

Whether the cause is known or not a young man has died, and to conclude he disrespected the spirits is baloney as they weren't there, or were they?

RIP young man!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[OmarZaid]

Mock if you must ... that is the way of the vulgar. 

[TKDfella]

7 hours ago, thaifan01 said:

Well spoken, mate. Unfortunally lack of RESPECT for Thais and their culture is pretty common among tourists and expats.

 

Have a nice day :)

Hmmm, I don't believe that is true. Having been here a long time I have met many expats and tourists and it wasn't a lack of respect that was the problem. Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion (although you will often see it listed as a religion along Taoism etc.). Thai belief in spirits is a separate issue and often a local ethnic practice too. When going to a temple to pay merit it is Buddha and his teachings they have in mind and not spirits of the Land, etc. This is what creates a misunderstanding among foreigners who are used a religion involving an Almighty. Having said that, much of Thai spiritualism has it foundations from the Hindu Gods of India. For those here who quote science etc. as progress, don't forget many scientists are religious and that it was Albert Einstein who sad that 'The oOd one (God) doe not play dice.' when referring to Quantum Mechanics. 

[Yann55]

7 hours ago, clockman said:

Third world, and always will be!

As far as superstition is concerned, 'third world' would cover the whole planet then. As widespread as stupidity, of which your post is a good illustration.

[OmarZaid]

2 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Hmmm, I don't believe that is true. Having been here a long time I have met many expats and tourists and it wasn't a lack of respect that was the problem. Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion (although you will often see it listed as a religion along Taoism etc.). Thai belief in spirits is a separate issue and often a local ethnic practice too. When going to a temple to pay merit it is Buddha and his teachings they have in mind and not spirits of the Land, etc. This is what creates a misunderstanding among foreigners who are used a religion involving an Almighty. Having said that, much of Thai spiritualism has it foundations from the Hindu Gods of India. For those here who quote science etc. as progress, don't forget many scientists are religious and that it was Albert Einstein who sad that 'The oOd one (God) doe not play dice.' when referring to Quantum Mechanics. 

Ameen

[SpeakeasyThai]

2 hours ago, wvavin said:

There is never a logic when you are dealing with people with the 3rd world mentality.

Is that what the American Consulate will state to the young mans parents?

[TKDfella]

2 minutes ago, OmarZaid said:

Ameen

Whoops I wrote 'sad' instead of 'said', my apologies to all especially to all the spirits, gods, ghosts..... 

[55Jay]

5 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is easy to mock the local people for their beliefs, but having spent a long time in rural Asia (outside of Thailand) I have a slightly different take.

 

I always found that the local animism and the concurrent belief in 'spirits' was more a way to try and live in harmony with nature, In olden days, the easiest way to express what we now call environmentalism and common sense in dealings with nature was to ascribe what they saw to a supernatural presence, and by heeding the 'spirits', local people adapted themselves to their local conditions.

 

I think it is true that the guy slipped on a rock. That said. the local belief might actually have been saying "don't go there or you might slip on a rock". It is just expressed in a different manner.

 

Cheers

 

Right, I think it's a waste of time taking the "Locals" to task.  Perhaps we should take them at their word.

 

Here are the facts asserted by the esteemed "Locals" quoted in Daily News:

 

• Spirit lurks at/near this tourist attraction.  
• Spirit acts as a protector and violent, random enforcer for insults such as urinating in the wrong place and climbing up the wrong rock.
• Spirit caused this young tourist's death, and also previous accidents and deaths at this site.

So, why aren't these "locals" shouting warnings at the tops of their lungs?  Why aren't there monks up there chanting and whisking holy water all over the place?   Where are the local authorities in all this?  How about the Minister of Tourism and Sports?  Why in the hell isn't this dangerous tourist site barricaded off, with warning signs as big as an M-150 billboard on the Asia Highway? 

 

I say take the esteemed Locals at their word and hold them, the Temple, and the government, accountable for it. 

 

Then let's see how long they stick to their cave man bullshit stories.

[thhMan]

I guess thats all there is for some Thais as education is more of a myth than spirits

[wallybee]

Anybody who still believes in this hocus pocus, I would suggest reading "Homo Deus"

by Yuval Noah Harari, it is a kind of refresher course for fossils living in the 21st Century.

You might want to start of with his much acclaimed "Homo Sapiens"

[jenifer d]

8 hours ago, clockman said:

Third world, and always will be!

this is NOT a 3rd world country;

you want 3rd world? try Bangladesh, or most of Africa

 

get so bored with everybody insulting Thailand

[jenifer d]

27 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Right, I think it's a waste of time taking the "Locals" to task.  Perhaps we should take them at their word.

 

Here are the facts asserted by the esteemed "Locals" quoted in Daily News:

 

• Spirit lurks at/near this tourist attraction.  
• Spirit acts as a protector and violent, random enforcer for insults such as urinating in the wrong place and climbing up the wrong rock.
• Spirit caused this young tourist's death, and also previous accidents and deaths at this site.

So, why aren't these "locals" shouting warnings at the tops of their lungs?  Why aren't there monks up there chanting and whisking holy water all over the place?   Where are the local authorities in all this?  How about the Minister of Tourism and Sports?  Why in the hell isn't this dangerous tourist site barricaded off, with warning signs as big as an M-150 billboard on the Asia Highway? 

 

I say take the esteemed Locals at their word and hold them, the Temple, and the government, accountable for it. 

 

Then let's see how long they stick to their cave man bullshit stories.

this is NOT a tourist site, as the story said; it is quite inaccessible

-there is NO temple, just a small shrine there

 "cave man bulls**t story, huh??? i suppose YOU are Christian, at least nominally?!?!?!?

or is your Temple a bar stool???

you can scoff all you want, but i have found the Thai beliefs in spirits and ghosts to be quite verifiably true,

and it has furthered my spiritual practice as well

[jenifer d]

48 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

Hmmm, I don't believe that is true. Having been here a long time I have met many expats and tourists and it wasn't a lack of respect that was the problem. Buddhism is a philosophy not a religion (although you will often see it listed as a religion along Taoism etc.). Thai belief in spirits is a separate issue and often a local ethnic practice too. When going to a temple to pay merit it is Buddha and his teachings they have in mind and not spirits of the Land, etc. This is what creates a misunderstanding among foreigners who are used a religion involving an Almighty. Having said that, much of Thai spiritualism has it foundations from the Hindu Gods of India. For those here who quote science etc. as progress, don't forget many scientists are religious and that it was Albert Einstein who sad that 'The oOd one (God) doe not play dice.' when referring to Quantum Mechanics. 

YES!!! well said!!!

finally a bit of respect and enlightened wisdom in this thread!!!

 

one dear Thai friend put it very well, at the official dediaction "party" of a mountain shrine/temple in Dan Chang (Suphan Buri):

"Pi' dok mai* *  Buddhism is a science, not a religion" i knew exactly what he meant- Buddha did it, and told others "this is what i did,

you can take what works and do what you may to get here too" 

* *(dok mai = flower, my Thai name; Pi' being term of high respect & esteem due to my being elderly)

[terminatorchiangmai]

6 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

this is NOT a tourist site, as the story said; it is quite inaccessible

-there is NO temple, just a small shrine there

 "cave man bulls**t story, huh??? i suppose YOU are Christian, at least nominally?!?!?!?

or is your Temple a bar stool???

you can scoff all you want, but i have found the Thai beliefs in spirits and ghosts to be quite verifiably true,

and it has furthered my spiritual practice as well

 maybe you should go back in to your lotus position and come back when you have some more Thailand experience.

 

[jenifer d]

Just now, terminatorchiangmai said:

 maybe you should go back in to your lotus position and come back when you have some more Thailand experience.

 

i've been here 7 1/2 years and read, write and speak Thai, and 90% of my daily conversations are in Thai;

Thais address me with respect and call me Thai, not farang

 

maybe you should go back to your bar stool

[jenifer d]

3 hours ago, rkidlad said:

Where did I say Westerners are smarter than 'Thais'? Why is this a West Vs. Thai thing? Are there not Thais who use science as a measure for applying common sense?

 

You've inferred that for your own agenda.  I'm having a go at people who think that using superstition is somehow endearing. It's not. Whether it be in the West or Thailand, this mentality is detrimental to moving forward. 

 

It's 2017. There are no spirits, ghosts or bogeymen. There never were. 

 

 

 

 

moving forward to what? a technological nightmare, a cyber-dictatorship???

 

so sorry for you, but i can most definitely assure you that there ARE spirits and ghosts;

my neigbors even saw my mom's ghost here before she announced herself;

when she actually MANIFESTED physically, i ran to tell my neighbors, who said

"we know, dok mai, we saw her already, we were waiting for YOU to say that you saw her!"

[moe666]

Got to love you guys, no knowledge of what their belief system happens to be but ready to disrespect them and put them down. Very similar to how the American Indian is treated even today in the US. Just because you cannot see do not ever think they do not exsist. Until bacteria could be seen by microscope sickness was caused by bad humors and other things that are nonsense now.

[jenifer d]

4 hours ago, mark01 said:

They're not superstitious. They're just f@@@@@@ idiots.

careful where you point fingers, guess where the OTHER 3 point...

Thais may not be BOOK smart, and the public "education" system is even worse than the US

(and that's saying a LOT!!!)

but spiritually, even the lowliest Thais i have found to be FAR more spiritually aware and intelligent

than virtually any westerner i've ever met...

[jenifer d]

4 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

                         I can speak for northern California, where I resided for a quarter century before moving to Thailand in 1998.

 

                          Metaphysical fans in California don't share the same superstitions as Asians and Africans, but there are a lot of similarities.  It's a mixed bag.   Wanting to believe hocus pocus is as deeply embedded in human psyche as wanting to do drugs (alcohol included) or craving sex and money.  It's a many-fangled topic.

 

                    Thai Buddhism does nothing to dispel hocus pocus beliefs, which is too bad, because unfettered Buddhism (Zen style, for example) seeks to disassociate itself from hocus pocus.  

 

                         I was married to a successful fortune teller, who was well-versed and respected locally for her deep knowledge of astrology, numerology, palmistry, tarot, etc etc.   ....so I could see up close, how full of shit all that stuff is.  

 

                          It's a panacea (and a way to make money).  How different is it than the old men who sell sugary crap to kids on weekend TV ads, ....or the people who sell skin whitener cream, or Bernie Maddoffs who give a false sense of money-security, or Trump/Thaksin types who sells feel-good lies by the bucketload.

 

 

 

 

 

 

i'm FROM northern California, and spent 50+ years there before moving here 7 1/2 years ago;

MOST mumbo-jumbo in the west is exactly that; and acknowledging spirits and ghosts is NOT "hocus pocus"

sorry you're so tainted and jaded from having been married to a fraud-

maybe some day, buy my book (memoirs) and learn some TRUTH...

[sambum]

8 hours ago, robblok said:

How is this any different then Christians saying it was the will of god after an accident or stuff like this. 

 

All these religions are equally funny, no proof for any. He just fell that is all, now if something really strange has happened. Like he fell upwards and hung around mid air levitating (without any machines around) I would hold more credibility to religion after first looking for a good scientific explanation. 

I don't usually side with you, but in this case you are spot on! "God moves in mysterious ways" is another way of answering "If there is a God, why did he allow this to happen?" (711, mining disasters, loss of of a child/loved one etc) Personally, I think he slipped on the rocks and fell - easily done, but the locals are using it as a way of telling tourists to respect their land and  culture - nothing wrong with expecting that either, but nothing to do with "angry spirits" (IMHO!)

Edited June 20, 2017 by sambum

[terminatorchiangmai]

The poorest and most  distressed  people have the most spirituality and are the most religious  , because otherwise there is nothing to hang on too.

If you believe in ghosts then you need to look at your self why ?

Because you want to see your passed  away relative ?

You want to win the lottery ?

You want to get out of poverty ?

 

Its all rubbish , wake up !

[jenifer d]

8 hours ago, thaifan01 said:

Well spoken, mate. Unfortunally lack of RESPECT for Thais and their culture is pretty common among tourists and expats.

 

Have a nice day :)

yup, EXACTLY!!!

and this one of my pet peeves and constant battles here on this forum,

for which many resent me...

although there ARE many things here that are not perfect,

i cannot and WILL not tolerate Thai-bashing,

which goes on here 24/7/365-

and most doing the bashing do NOT speak the language and have not made ONE bit of effort to understand the culture-

and the only spirits most of these whingers on this forum worship, or even acknowledge, is in a bottle... 

[rkidlad]

16 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

moving forward to what? a technological nightmare, a cyber-dictatorship???

 

so sorry for you, but i can most definitely assure you that there ARE spirits and ghosts;

my neigbors even saw my mom's ghost here before she announced herself;

when she actually MANIFESTED physically, i ran to tell my neighbors, who said

"we know, dok mai, we saw her already, we were waiting for YOU to say that you saw her!"

No, there aren't. That would be the drugs. 

[jenifer d]

17 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Got to love you guys, no knowledge of what their belief system happens to be but ready to disrespect them and put them down. Very similar to how the American Indian is treated even today in the US. Just because you cannot see do not ever think they do not exsist. Until bacteria could be seen by microscope sickness was caused by bad humors and other things that are nonsense now.

exactly!!!

careful, the otheres here will HATE you for daring to make them have to think that maybe they are clueless colonists

who do nothing but disrespect the country and the culture from a bar stool

while not even bothering to speak the language

[observer90210]

Do any forms of superior powers exist above ?

 

Well only a story teller would claim having the answer to that one...

 

Nevertheless, to deny any such forms of higher energy or vibrations would be like straightforwardly denying other forms of life elsewhere in space?

 

Who are we to confirm or refute such issues, considering our current levels of knowledge and science?.....only a fool would claim to know....

[LannaGuy]

9 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

It is easy to mock the local people for their beliefs, but having spent a long time in rural Asia (outside of Thailand) I have a slightly different take.

 

I always found that the local animism and the concurrent belief in 'spirits' was more a way to try and live in harmony with nature, In olden days, the easiest way to express what we now call environmentalism and common sense in dealings with nature was to ascribe what they saw to a supernatural presence, and by heeding the 'spirits', local people adapted themselves to their local conditions.

 

I think it is true that the guy slipped on a rock. That said. the local belief might actually have been saying "don't go there or you might slip on a rock". It is just expressed in a different manner.

 

Cheers

 

utter BS have you seen how they treat nature?  animals?  Jeeze

[sambum]

48 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

this is NOT a 3rd world country;

you want 3rd world? try Bangladesh, or most of Africa

 

get so bored with everybody insulting Thailand

It wants so NOT to be a 3rd World country, but has too many things to change first.