How could Kushner not be seen as an honest broker? I mean, it's not like Netanyahu is a friend of his family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/jared-kushner-israel.html

14 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

How could Kushner not be seen as an honest broker? I mean, it's not like Netanyahu is a friend of his family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/jared-kushner-israel.html

 

This article (and others) was linked on multiple topics. Nothing new.

Don't know that the question is whether he's seen as an honest broker, or whether the Trump administration can deliver anything. Not quite the same thing, even if the probable answers to both are negative.

 

Edited June 24, 20179 yr by Morch

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

How could Kushner not be seen as an honest broker? I mean, it's not like Netanyahu is a friend of his family.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/jared-kushner-israel.html

It's interesting as Kushner is a member of an orthodox Jewish sect, with him and his family donating money (relatively small amounts considering his wealth) to settlers, including one group who are are defined as 'extremist'. "Morch' has his finger of the pulse so perhaps he can give some insight how the guy's personal background would be viewed by the Palestinian leadership or if in reality no relevance with government to government discussions, even taking into account the passionate politics of the M.E.

Donald's friend is my friend.

 

 

Just now, IMA_FARANG said:

Donald's friend is my friend.

 

 

Just don't turn your back on him.

6 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

It appears to me, Morch just likes to hear himself talk.

 

Other than pontificating and continually rebuking other posters, he never contributes anything external to topics.

 

As a mod described him the other day:

 

"It's obvious some people like to argue for the sake of arguing."

 

 

Personally I appreciate his contributions as for me he does appear to reflect reality in a very complex environment

Edited June 24, 20179 yr by simple1

Considering the fact that every other approach has failed including  negotiators who were sympathetic to the arab position (Carter, Blair, Moon, Erdogan, Morsi, etc.), what do they have to lose?

At this time, the PLA and Hamas are being pressured by  many arab nations to do something. The current issues with Qatar is interfering with  the generous  funding of Hamas by Qatar. Iran  has an expensive proposition in its propping up of Syria and  is facing domestic strife as it diverts money away from its social programs to the war in Syria.

8 minutes ago, iReason said:

It appears to me, Morch just likes to hear himself talk.

 

 

Pot-kettle.

 

Morch puts up an opinion counter to your daily trump bashing. You'd do well to read it and listen to what he's saying. Believe it or not, you're in a minority in your opinions.

14 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Considering the fact that every other approach has failed including  negotiators who were sympathetic to the arab position (Carter, Blair, Moon, Erdogan, Morsi, etc.), what do they have to lose?

Consider what it took for the only peace agreement achieved in the Middle East - the Camp David Accord. President Carter kept Israel and Egypt conferees together for thirteen days and managed to see the negotiations through because he worked tirelessly by playing “the role of draftsman, strategist, therapist, friend, adversary, and mediator.”

http://www.e-ir.info/2016/04/21/the-camp-david-accords-jimmy-carters-role-in-securing-middle-east-peace/

I don't see neither Kushner nor Trump having equal intellect, patience and empathy to fulfill similar roles to accomplish a successful outcome between Israel and Palestine.

26 minutes ago, simple1 said:

It's interesting as Kushner is a member of an orthodox Jewish sect, with him and his family donating money (relatively small amounts considering his wealth) to settlers, including one group who are are defined as 'extremist'. "Morch' has his finger of the pulse so perhaps he can give some insight how the guy's personal background would be viewed by the Palestinian leadership or if in reality no relevance with government to government discussions, even taking into account the passionate politics of the M.E.

 

The initial response from the Palestinian side, with regard to Trump's elections victory and subsequent relevant appointments, was dismay. Shortly afterwards, following several less high profile (or less covered by media) meetings, they seemed to accept withholding judgement (at least publicly). Since then, their expressed view on this is conditional on the direction of US leverage - when applied to concessions by the Israeli side, Kushner & Co. are sort-of-alright, when something is demanded of the Palestinian side...not so much. This specifically relates to the recent round of meetings, for example.

 

I think the Palestinians aren't thrilled with any of Trump's appointments (or Trump himself). But then they do not see the US, in general, as an honest broker. Whether the current team is taken as "more of the same", or as "ultimate proof" with regard to their perception of US role - can't rightly say. There are different Palestinian views on that. As far as US representatives' "background" - probably not a real issue, considering the Palestinians deal with Israeli right wingers of "worse" backgrounds on a daily basis.

 

As a somewhat surprising aside, of the three Trump representatives, Kushner is deemed by some of the Israeli negotiators to be the one more open to Arab and Palestinian demands and positions. I think this may relate to his position vs. Trump, and Trump's desire to "close the deal".

 

23 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Consider what it took for the only peace agreement achieved in the Middle East - the Camp David Accord. President Carter kept Israel and Egypt conferees together for thirteen days and managed to see the negotiations through because he worked tirelessly by playing “the role of draftsman, strategist, therapist, friend, adversary, and mediator.”

http://www.e-ir.info/2016/04/21/the-camp-david-accords-jimmy-carters-role-in-securing-middle-east-peace/

I don't see neither Kushner nor Trump having equal intellect, patience and empathy to fulfill similar roles to accomplish a successful outcome between Israel and Palestine.

 

Well, that also had something to do with said negotiations being between two sovereign states, each headed by a leader who had the will and political clout to deliver. A lot of the issues were ironed out in the months preceding the summit. Similar efforts and summits were conducted vs. the Palestinians, chaperoned by other administrations. These were not less intensive. That they had varying levels of success had less to do with US efforts, which ought to be applauded.

 

You are right on the score of Trump not being on par with previous presidents when it comes to conducting such rounds of negotiation. Can just see it going pear shaped when he loses patience or interest. Or just does the late night tweet thing. When it comes to Kushner, not that I hold him in much regard, but such negotiations also rely on having people not given to emotional outbursts, and whom their respective bosses trust. So if things culminate to a summit presided by Trump, I it would go better with Kushner around. At least as far as managing Trump goes.

4 hours ago, Morch said:

 

This article (and others) was linked on multiple topics. Nothing new.

 

Whether or not the link is relevant is not enough? Apparently, in your mind it's outside the realm of probability that there may well be other posters who haven't seen this article. 

11 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Whether or not the link is relevant is not enough? Apparently, in your mind it's outside the realm of probability that there may well be other posters who haven't seen this article. 

 

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Once again, words fail you.

4 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Once again, words fail you.

Nope, just got no interest in yet another contrived non-issue, off-topic argument with you.

 

Off-topic post reported and removed.  

20 hours ago, pegman said:

Trump will offer threats. It's his way of doing business. They won't be against the Israelis. The Palistenians won't be cowered after all these decades. It could very well bring on the types of violent acts against Americans that were common against Israelis a few decades back. What's upsetting to me is I'm often mistaken for a Yank. 

Trump is doing a lot of things that may bring violence to Americans.  I'm American, but everyone thinks I'm a Brit Good luck brother

On 6/22/2017 at 10:45 AM, ezzra said:

To all the skeptical and the nay Sayers out there, at least he's doing something, I don't see anyone else getting his hands dirty,

 

Many small minded people who are consumed with bigotry and petty jealousy are not comfortable seeing a well educated and accomplished Jewish guy up there with the big players of the world....

Well I must admit I would have never guessed the President of Palestine was a Jew.

This attempt might set a record for brevity:

 

Will Trump Pull Out of Middle East Peace Talks After Reports of Abbas Kushner Rift?

http://www.newsweek.com/kushner-trump-middle-east-peace-628859

4 minutes ago, heybruce said:

This attempt might set a record for brevity:

 

Will Trump Pull Out of Middle East Peace Talks After Reports of Abbas Kushner Rift?

http://www.newsweek.com/kushner-trump-middle-east-peace-628859

Thanks for that. It's almost funny. What is that little boy doing there anyway? 

On 2017-6-22 at 5:00 PM, Redline said:

Well, nobody asked any of us!  It has to do with experience.  I hope he does something.  If he can offer cash or gifts, anything will do.

Hey, come on, this is the guy you did not vote for but he is appointee  of the guy you did vote for.

God love Trump, he is everything the US voted for. He represents everything about intellect that we knew about the US. 

Trump is so on the ball, so intelligent, I can hardly spell it. But we believe him and his hugely intelligent members of spongefest, sorry Congress

9 hours ago, heybruce said:

This attempt might set a record for brevity:

 

Will Trump Pull Out of Middle East Peace Talks After Reports of Abbas Kushner Rift?

http://www.newsweek.com/kushner-trump-middle-east-peace-628859

 

Yeah, well...another who-knew-it-would-be-so-complicated for Trump's collection.

That said, there's nothing really out of the ordinary here. Pretty much the same dynamics prevail. There's still a Palestinian delegation heading for DC end of the month, and a some of the tough positions are posturing for domestic politics' sake.

 

There were two mistakes that may have been avoided, though. Firstly, with regard to the demands to cease payments for prisoners and terrorists - not an unreasonable point, but the timing was awful (Abbas already engaged in controversial pressuring of Hamas through economic means, and this being Ramadan). Further, the original demand included most Palestinian prisoners, regardless of specific actions - wouldn't be acceptable or reasonable. The later on diluted demand (only "full pledged" terrorists) was made too late, and Abbas was already cornered by opposition and public opinion. Under better handling, he could have gone for the latter, more so if it was kept relatively quiet.

 

Second mistake was letting it be known that Trump isn't committed. Even if this was intended as a motivator, I'm pretty sure that it will act in the opposite way, with regard to both sides.

On 6/24/2017 at 0:47 AM, pegman said:

400,000 illegal West Bank settlers. Great results! 

Jordan will not take these arabs back.

On 6/26/2017 at 1:21 AM, spiderorchid said:

Hey, come on, this is the guy you did not vote for but he is appointee  of the guy you did vote for.

God love Trump, he is everything the US voted for. He represents everything about intellect that we knew about the US. 

Trump is so on the ball, so intelligent, I can hardly spell it. But we believe him and his hugely intelligent members of spongefest, sorry Congress

Russia voted for DT.  The only sensible option was Bernie, and he got shafted.  Let them all bury each other one by one