U.S. Senate Republican healthcare bill would cause 22 million to lose insurance

[Thaidream]

Almost all American politicians except a few progressives do not understand the concept of  Universal Health care and refuse to look at the success of Europe' Japan and Canada that provide single payer healthcare.  Healthcare is a human right and everyone has to agree that it indeed is a right not a privilege.

 

The only solution is to expand the current Medicare system to everyone- paid by a tax on one's earnings. Americans are already paying a tax right now and don't even realize it which funds Medicare for those Age 65 and over.  As part of the coverage, hospitals and providers of all kind would be mandated to accept everyone and get paid by the Government rate. This will guarantee universal healthcare and lower the actual costs. In addition, It could cover all of us overseas since the cost of medical care overseas is at least half of what the same cost is in the US.

 

If the above would occur- insurance companies can go out of business and Big Pharma will have to take less for their life saving drugs if they want to stay in business.  At the same time- the National Health Institute can replicate any drug at any time and provide it through a Government Pharmacy Organization- again non profit.

 

If we move to a single payer system- we don't need  Obamacare or Trumpcare- we will have America Care- which covers everyone at affordable rates (the whole working populate pays) and ensure everyone gets a chance to live. America is the World's wealthiest country- it is a disgrace to not be able to provide universal healthcare for its citizens- especially when the US has the largest military budget in the history of the World.

 

Now is really the time for Americans to demand politicians stop pandering to wealthy insurance companies; Big Pharma; and lobbyists that fund their campaigns. And if the politicians refuse to listen- they must be voted out of office.

[Jingthing]

13 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Almost all American politicians except a few progressives do not understand the concept of  Universal Health care and refuse to look at the success of Europe' Japan and Canada that provide single payer healthcare.  Healthcare is a human right and everyone has to agree that it indeed is a right not a privilege.
...

That is simply not true anymore. Your POV is extremely dated.

A majority of democrats support universal coverage. It's being rebranded as Medicare For All. Expect this to be a major and explicit issue in 18 and 20.

 

Democratic Support For Single-Payer Health Care Is Rising

More than half of Democrats believe that health insurance should be provided through a national, government-run insurance system, according to a new Pew Research survey. This represents a significant jump from past surveys.

Fifty-two percent of Americans who identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party now favor a single-payer system, up from 33 percent in 2014 and 43 percent as recently as this January.

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/democratic-support-for-single-payer-health-care-is-rising_us_594d8acde4b05c37bb768420

Edited June 27, 2017 by Jingthing

[Thaidream]

Thanks for the update- but until there is a wide spread public call for this and the politicians who supposedly advocate come out adamantly in support of a single payer system nothing will happen. The Conservative Republican base and the Republican party itself will not go along with this plan and they hold a majority.  The only hope  is for the Democrats to retake both the House and Senate and we elect a Progressive Democrat as President. I don't see a Single Payer system until 2020 at the earliest unless there are street demonstrations in the millions.

 

Frankly speaking- I think it is a long road ahead as the lobbyists will pour hundreds of millions of dollars into opposition and they will be supported y the Insurance industry; Big Pharma and the super wealthy like the Koch brothers who want an alt right agenda which condemns the sick, the disabled and elderly to the grave as useless and without merit.  The US has become a country controlled by the wealthy; for the wealthy and unless the average person becomes educated in the reality -nothing changes.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

Health insurance only for those who can afford it. How do you feel about euthanasia?

There is the dichotomy. All these Reps are the ones saying no to abortion, yet when a woman without a pot to pee in is forced to go to term for a baby she cannot support (maybe the result of rape etc) then once said baby is born then as far as the Reps are concerned with medical treatment its just tough poop for the rest of the mother and babies miserable life. Many religions want their congregation to breed like rabbits to give them greater sustainability. It is like the Reps want people to have as many babies as possible so that they have more tax payers.

 

 

2 hours ago, tomwct said:

More Fake News! 22 Million, who never had insurance before ObamaCare and they got a policy free, but they could not use it because they had a $8000 deductible, but it was free. No it wasn't free, the US Taxpayer paid for it! Now these people who do not work need to find a job and then they can buy some health insurance, like 90% of the other Americans. That's the

way it works. We do not want Socialized Medicine! Thank you President Trump! Making America Great Again one day at a time!

So how does a 55 year old white collar worker sacked by his boss facing tighter and tighter financial constraints just 'find a job'? Is he as you pointed out on one of your other posts here just another 'bum'. Many considered America was great during the times of slavery, the elite never knew such an awesome America as there was during the time of prohibition or the recession. So what do you quantify as making 'America Great Again'?

 

The whole health care thing would not even be 20% as bad as it is in the USA if you stopped Doctors profiting directly or indirectly from the medicines they prescribe. I have never met a nation of such sickies. Every single American I speak to is on a handful of medicines - for nothing! I am over 55, I have probably had anti-biotics maybe 10-15 times total (and that is pushing it) in my life, and have had almost nothing else. I never get headaches so have hardly ever even had a pain killer, i take no other form of medication - ever, and the only other qualifying thing might be taking some strepsils for a sore throat. That is it, and I am fit. I have taken less than 10 days off work due to illness in over 30 years, and whilst in the Military for a full career I had a total of 5 days off. I get a full fasting blood test done very 6 months and if any of the numbers are out, I research how to get the numbers back in using an amended diet and just get on with it. So my ongoing medical bills cost me 1300 baht every 6 months for a blood test. I pay for medical insurance that I have never used in my life. And the thing is, what I describe above is pretty much the norm for a Brit (with the exception of those that have had to unfortunately experience surgery/serious illness etc).

 

Americans need to wake up, get off white refined sugar products, look at the food they are eating and they could probably get rid of 1000 USD worth of meds a month each. Type 2 Diabetes is FULLY reversible as are many of the 'illnesses' that Americans are given long term meds for. Americans treat the symptoms not the cause. Treating only symptoms is far more profitable.

[Thaidream]

The poster certainly is correct about the American health situation but let's remember why we got into this situation. Ever watch American TV- where there is commercial after commercial advocating this medicine or that medicine and of course the Pharmaceutical industry loves it when you are sick and have to buy their meds; the insurance companies love sick people because they can raise rates at will; doctors love it because they can prescribe meds that they have gotten kickbacks on and hospitals love it all because they can charge over the top prices for things that one can get in Thailand for 10% of the cost.

 

All of the above is part of a cabal that wants to get wealthy off the backs of the working poor and middle class ad this why single payer medical coverage must be provided to all Americans so this greedy cabal can finally be broken apart  and Americans join the rest of the World.

[gk10002000]

7 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

Let's see if we can get your rant back on topic by answering a simple question:  Do you believe health care should be subject to the whims of a free market?

absolutely yes. Competition is gooda And you can take your rant word and put it where a proctologist would have trouble finding it.

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, Credo said:

But this isn't about Obamacare.   This is about the republican plan, which will leave 22 million without care.   

 

Great.  And how much will the quality and cost of the other several hundred million change?

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, gk10002000 said:

Great.  And how much will the quality and cost of the other several hundred million change?

Quality probably similar for those with access.

Cost is projected as a little bit less for younger/ healthier and MASSIVELY higher for old, sick, and especially the old AND sick over 50 and under 65.

[gk10002000]

12 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually not true. Only if your premiums were unsubsidized did rates go up massively. Roughly 83 percent of people on the exchanges get subsidies. 

People on subisidies have to have incomes basically at the poverty level.  For a single person working as an engineer and making over 50,000, for example, a ridiculously low number, they would not get a subsidy.  Me at 60 would be paying a minimum of 508 USD/month for the worst plan in Florida.  That would be ridiculous, and a person with a wife or family would be busted.

[Jingthing]

Just now, gk10002000 said:

People on subisidies have to have incomes basically at the poverty level.  For a single person working as an engineer and making over 50,000, for example, a ridiculously low number, they would not get a subsidy.  Me at 60 would be paying a minimum of 508 USD/month for the worst plan in Florida.  That would be ridiculous, and a person with a wife or family would be busted.

The cost will be much more if trumpcare passes. Because under ACA older person premiums are limited to three times higher, but trumpcare five times higher than younger. ALSO, and even more impactful, the SUBSIDY levels under trumpcare will be MASSIVELY less than ACA. For low income like 20,000 it would mean basically spending most of the income just on health insurance. Yes ... INSANITY. 

[Andaman Al]

The ACA was the biggest "start-up" in global history. Was everything going to be perfect? Nope! So it needed constant tweeting and improvement as it's inadequacies became known. What have Trump and the Reps done now - they simply abandoned the biggest start-up in global history, without looking at a single way of improving it. Eight years after they started bitching and moaning about it the Republicans have done nothing to prepare for their 'day' and right now they themselves are going to try and start 'another' biggest start-up in history (but this time with no preparation or preparation time) - and it will be a total cock-up from start to finish.

[Redline]

13 hours ago, FritsSikkink said:

I wonder how many of his voters will lose it and how many will only find out now.

They will sacrifice life, limb and child for the greater good.  Hail Donny boy!

[Redline]

13 hours ago, gk10002000 said:

What doesn't make the news much is how much Obamare drastically INCREASED most people's payments.  In three years, my premiums in my Grandfathered Blue cross went from 138/month to 508$!  I was an independent contractor and had what had been a fine policy. I decided to take a direct job with a company.  Now when I leave the company,  I will probably leave the USA and hang out overseas for a few years in Thailand, and buying a middle of the road Thai policy.  So even if Obamacare did make some 8 million people eligible for care that previously were denied due to existing conditions, the ACA hurt so many others with higher premiums and sky high deductibles.  And you had no option to decline since they made it the law.  I don't know the answer, but Obamacare was wildly disruptive, and a huge failure by most measures.  Insurance carriers have left cities, states and entire regions.

Single payer, there ya go!

[Redline]

11 hours ago, ToS2014 said:

The simple matter is that the government should focus their efforts on the insurance industry somehow, and GET OUT of the rest.  It's sad that a government 'says' that they can dictate medical insurance.  Even worse is all those that voted for a government to install such a scheme.  Just remember all the 'goodies' sold to appease the masses during the ACA debate and now look at the mess.  Cover those poor or in need yes, but to dictate that I have to purchase an insurance product that I cannot ever use, in my case it's Medicade pt B, is just plain wrong.

Single payer  Don't worry your dream will come true~there is not going to be any Medicaid or Medicare

Edited June 27, 2017 by Redline

[Redline]

10 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

It's an interesting dynamic.  Much focus has been put upon politicians and consumers, yet a comparative amount of focus has not seemed to be upon other factions.  Some examples:

 

>>>>   drug prices are driven by greed from drug companies.  There are reasons Americans are forced to pay much more than any other countries.  Example:  a bag of saline solution which should cost a few bucks, winds up costing over $100 in a US hospital.

 

>>>>   insurance companies' greed.  A whole book could be written about that, and their high-paid lobbyists in DC.

 

>>>>  Medical professionals are also driven by base human desires to get as much money as possible. 

 

>>>>  Americans;  are among the fattest, on average, in the world, and probably ingest the highest % of junk food.  High costs and high incidence of medical care is as much about personal responsibility as anything else.   Americans, as a whole, are a sickly group of people.  

 

>>>>  The more hand-outs Americans get, the more they want, and the more they think they deserve.  It's a ratchet affect.   There are towns in SE USA, for example, where over 60% of all residents get government hand-outs.  Rich people get a larger % of hand-outs (TARP and bail-outs for the Big 3, for examples)

 

>>>>  added to the item above:  information from on-high (Feds, schools, parents, experts) is largely abetting the poor health habits of Americans in general.  Several examples of foods which society has little problem with:  red meat, trans-fats, sugar, starchy foods, MSG, pork, fatty foods, processed foods, additives, etc, .....the list goes on.

 

The items above, particularly when added together, = reasons why a Scandinavian-type single-payer, healthcare-for-all-citizens will be increasingly difficult, as each week rolls by.   Americans, as a whole,  are getting sicker, and rich people + corporations aren't going to get any less greedy.

 

Single payer would still be cheaper.  Insurance companies don't pay for preventative care.  I have seen no study that came to the conclusion that single payer would be more expensive than the current system.  In fact, most say there would be huge savings because of the issues raised above.  There are plenty of examples to draw information from.  Countries have been doing it for decades!

[Redline]

5 hours ago, tomwct said:

More Fake News! 22 Million, who never had insurance before ObamaCare and they got a policy free, but they could not use it because they had a $8000 deductible, but it was free. No it wasn't free, the US Taxpayer paid for it! Now these people who do not work need to find a job and then they can buy some health insurance, like 90% of the other Americans. That's the

way it works. We do not want Socialized Medicine! Thank you President Trump! Making America Great Again one day at a time!

Who is we?  Americans do want socialized medicine.  Can you give more information, on your claims or are you going to keep regurgitating ignorant talking points?

Do you even know where that number came from?  Silly boy

[Redline]

3 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

There is the dichotomy. All these Reps are the ones saying no to abortion, yet when a woman without a pot to pee in is forced to go to term for a baby she cannot support (maybe the result of rape etc) then once said baby is born then as far as the Reps are concerned with medical treatment its just tough poop for the rest of the mother and babies miserable life. Many religions want their congregation to breed like rabbits to give them greater sustainability. It is like the Reps want people to have as many babies as possible so that they have more tax payers.

 

 

So how does a 55 year old white collar worker sacked by his boss facing tighter and tighter financial constraints just 'find a job'? Is he as you pointed out on one of your other posts here just another 'bum'. Many considered America was great during the times of slavery, the elite never knew such an awesome America as there was during the time of prohibition or the recession. So what do you quantify as making 'America Great Again'?

 

The whole health care thing would not even be 20% as bad as it is in the USA if you stopped Doctors profiting directly or indirectly from the medicines they prescribe. I have never met a nation of such sickies. Every single American I speak to is on a handful of medicines - for nothing! I am over 55, I have probably had anti-biotics maybe 10-15 times total (and that is pushing it) in my life, and have had almost nothing else. I never get headaches so have hardly ever even had a pain killer, i take no other form of medication - ever, and the only other qualifying thing might be taking some strepsils for a sore throat. That is it, and I am fit. I have taken less than 10 days off work due to illness in over 30 years, and whilst in the Military for a full career I had a total of 5 days off. I get a full fasting blood test done very 6 months and if any of the numbers are out, I research how to get the numbers back in using an amended diet and just get on with it. So my ongoing medical bills cost me 1300 baht every 6 months for a blood test. I pay for medical insurance that I have never used in my life. And the thing is, what I describe above is pretty much the norm for a Brit (with the exception of those that have had to unfortunately experience surgery/serious illness etc).

 

Americans need to wake up, get off white refined sugar products, look at the food they are eating and they could probably get rid of 1000 USD worth of meds a month each. Type 2 Diabetes is FULLY reversible as are many of the 'illnesses' that Americans are given long term meds for. Americans treat the symptoms not the cause. Treating only symptoms is far more profitable.

Thank you for your service in the military.  I agree with everything you say, and I follow the same plan.  I don't get as many blood tests as I should, but simply educating yourself, eating healthy, and exercise goes a long way.  My wife insisted on going to the doctor (Thailand) the other day for a stye.  The doctor gave her serious pain medication with side effects, and a super strong antibiotic, but never to her that all she needed to do was soak her eye a few times a day with warm salt water.  I trashed the pills, and told her no longer get pills from the doctor, only a list.  It needs to be illegal to advertise drugs in the USA, and we seriously need to have a single payer system, strictly monitored for abuse.  Put an end to this constant battle of insurance, doctors, and big pharma

[Redline]

1 hour ago, gk10002000 said:

People on subisidies have to have incomes basically at the poverty level.  For a single person working as an engineer and making over 50,000, for example, a ridiculously low number, they would not get a subsidy.  Me at 60 would be paying a minimum of 508 USD/month for the worst plan in Florida.  That would be ridiculous, and a person with a wife or family would be busted.

Soon there will be no subsidies, so don't worry, unless you have millions in your medical savings

[Jingthing]

Soon there will be no subsidies, so don't worry, unless you have millions in your medical savings

Just how mean is trumpcare.

This mean.



"Under the Affordable Care Act, a 60-year-old worker making $50,000 in Maricopa County, Arizona, has a $5,100 premium if he or she purchases a middle-tier policy. Under the Republican plan, that premium quadruples to $20,450. Indeed, there’s almost no county in the country where that 60-year-old wouldn’t see a massive spike in costs, rendering all but the most junk insurance unaffordable. "

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/republicans_can_only_defend_their_health_care_bill_by_lying.html

[Redline]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Just how mean is trumpcare.

This mean.



"Under the Affordable Care Act, a 60-year-old worker making $50,000 in Maricopa County, Arizona, has a $5,100 premium if he or she purchases a middle-tier policy. Under the Republican plan, that premium quadruples to $20,450. Indeed, there’s almost no county in the country where that 60-year-old wouldn’t see a massive spike in costs, rendering all but the most junk insurance unaffordable. "

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/republicans_can_only_defend_their_health_care_bill_by_lying.html

I hope people start posing all of the deaths this will cause online, if passed.  Mail pics and stories to their congressman's homes and offices.  I want to see who all of the tax breaks to the rich go to as well.  They deserve the same.

[gk10002000]

6 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The cost will be much more if trumpcare passes. Because under ACA older person premiums are limited to three times higher, but trumpcare five times higher than younger. ALSO, and even more impactful, the SUBSIDY levels under trumpcare will be MASSIVELY less than ACA. For low income like 20,000 it would mean basically spending most of the income just on health insurance. Yes ... INSANITY. 

yeah.  The numbers don't look good.  Luckily I have planned for this and spending a few years in Thailand while waiting for Medicare is fine with me.  Or, I can keep this job if I like.  Medical was one of the reasons I took this gig last year, since before I was a contractor with them and was paying $340 a month in my "Grandfathered Plan" and that would have jumped to over $500 in 2017.  With Northrop, I only pay $96 a month.  That to me is really good. 

[Jingthing]

Senate vote which the R leadership had been trying to rush through before the July 4 recess has been delayed.

 

They obviously didn't have to votes to pass it.

 

BUT, remember this happened before in the house and then they surprised a lot of people later by passing something. A pile of crapola. But something.

 

So it's not over.

 

 

 

 

[pegman]

18 hours ago, tomwct said:

More Fake News! 22 Million, who never had insurance before ObamaCare and they got a policy free, but they could not use it because they had a $8000 deductible, but it was free. No it wasn't free, the US Taxpayer paid for it! Now these people who do not work need to find a job and then they can buy some health insurance, like 90% of the other Americans. That's the

way it works. We do not want Socialized Medicine! Thank you President Trump! Making America Great Again one day at a time!

So tell us, how many government teats are you sucking from? Such callousness is usually accompanied with a hypocrite's scorn. Social Security, Medicare, VA Healthcare or other gov pension? How many gov cheques do you cash?

 

[pegman]

LETS GO BANKRUPT AGAIN!

 

[ilostmypassword]

44 minutes ago, pegman said:

LETS GO BANKRUPT AGAIN!

 

I'd like to believe that but mightn't that decline be at least in part because the rate had spiked due to the Great Recession? 

[Jingthing]

Buffett nails it:

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Warren-Buffett-thinks-working-just-to-beef-up-6625528.php

 

Quote

 

WARREN BUFFETT: The Republican healthcare bill should be called the 'Relief for the Rich Act'

"There's nothing ambiguous about that," Buffett said. "I will be given a 17% tax cut. And the people it's directed at are couples with $250,000 or more of income. You could entitle this, you know, Relief for the Rich Act or something, because it — I have got friends where it would have saved them as much as — it gets into the $10-million-and-up figure."

 

 

[YetAnother]

On 6/27/2017 at 7:02 AM, gk10002000 said:

Obamacare was wildly disruptive, and a huge failure by most measures. 

AND the penalties were implemented via the tax code; i have to file income tax returns with the USA ONLY to avoid the obama penalty even tho domestic usa insurance has absolutely nothing to do with me

[gk10002000]

3 minutes ago, YetAnother said:

AND the penalties were implemented via the tax code; i have to file income tax returns with the USA ONLY to avoid the obama penalty even tho domestic usa insurance has absolutely nothing to do with me

Yep.  Tying it in with the tax agency is disgusting.  Just waiting for all the stories and lawsuits and tax court actions as people stop paying the high premiums, etc.  One early way around it was, so they want to tack on the penalty for lack of coverage to the tax you owe?  Fine.  Lower my refund, or now make me owe money.  Wonder how many years before the IRS rejects your return until you pay, or do they just keep piling on a tax bill, adding interest, penalties, etc.

[selftaopath]

On 6/27/2017 at 8:05 AM, mfd101 said:

But but ... we LIKE the ACA because it's so good for us. We just voted against Obamacare cos he's a Muslim and anyway he shouldn't have been President because he wasn't born here ... Never mind, Donald will fix it all so we can keep ACA.

 

The question that arises is: When large numbers of voters are uneducated, ignorant & irrational, how can you run a democracy?

45 doesn't want democracy. He wants and inches his way daily to be the Dictator. One important step in that direction is to destroy free/honest media. 

[pegman]

21 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

I'd like to believe that but mightn't that decline be at least in part because the rate had spiked due to the Great Recession? 

Maybe 2-3 years after it had some bearing  but the decline has been steady right to last year.