Visa Violators Threaten Thai Lives, Property: Labor Ministry

[the guest]

16 hours ago, Doctorbu said:

Having spent way too much time in Pattaya and lived there for several years, there is a foreign criminal element that can be sensed in certain areas...this is just an observation or simple statement don't read into it too far. 

You find that in most of the big towns where foreigners congregate. Thais are not that stupid, they know when a foreign lapdog will do the shady work for them, and all they have to so is to collect the envelopes.

[digger70]

On 6/28/2017 at 2:36 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

Sounds exactly right to me.  Many Expats on TV have bees n their bonnets - and think everything is about them.

 

Listen closely - foreign workers taking jobs from Thais threatens their lives - as in their living and family lives - they need work to live here - there is no unemployment payments - this aint your nanny state. 

 

Why they put that photo of some Russians with Visa issues is more about TV journalism.  But if it was meant to stir up the 'kittens' - it sure worked.

 

Listen here sonny,the reason that there are Foreigners taking the jobs is,50% of he Thais are not up to the job and the other 50 % don't want to work .

Edited June 29, 2017 by digger70

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

20 hours ago, Arkady said:

The decree is fairly lengthy and seems to be effectively amending large chunks, if not all, of the 2008 Working of Aliens Act.  It is not clear why the government would want to amend the law by issuing a decree, rather than coming out with a new a Working of Aliens Act which could be easily passed by the appointed legislature, although it would be subject to public discussion under the new constitution and would take longer.  They must perceive the situation as being an emergency.  Another emergency decree was issued to do with the recruitment of foreign labour in August 2016. 

 

If I read it correctly, going through it at speed, the employer of aliens will need to be 75% owned by Thais and 75% of the shareholders will have to be Thai.  Also work permit fees are raised to B20,000.  However, this should be viewed as the maximum allowed by law. In the 2008 Act the maximum WP fee was B10,000 but they never charged that much.   

If this is true, you will need a 75% Thai partner to "employ yourself" if you have invested in a business here!  

[Bastos60]

10 hours ago, StevieAus said:

I

 

If there is such a shortage of work why are so many Burmese allowed to work here?

The fact is that the economy particularly agriculture could not survive without them

The answer is the Thais don't want to do those jobs

Local businesses tell me they have difficulty obtaining employees even offering good rates of pay and from my observations the staff don't seem to be dropping with exhaustion 

In a recent article dealing with Pyramid scams an official was quoted as saying that Thais want to be rich but don't want to work for it

It is like you said, there are many jobs Thais won't even want to consider doing. 
There are far more easy jobs that can provide better income if they go to tourist hot spots.
How many families rely on rich sponsors funding their daughters bad habits.

Even factory jobs provide more welfare and allow families to borrow money (try getting a loan as a farmers help).

This is also why there will never be a substantial shortage in girls in some services, it is easy money if you are a pretty little thing.

[Bastos60]

11 hours ago, whatawonderfulday said:

Unbelievable that your statements seem to agree that it foreigners the problem.  Do you not think it is a bigger problem with the Thais themselves ?  This week a Thai man raped a 4 year old, last week a Thai man raped a 10 year old then murdered her. Four weeks ago a Thai man was caught pimping out 12 year old boys to high placed official.

 

The Thai government should clear up the filth in their own backyard before blaming it on others.

How about that madam pimping out her own daughter and a bunch of other underage girls.

What about "the desert girls" calling it a nothern-Thai tradition?

 

If they put it on offer, they will come.

[Bastos60]

10 hours ago, jonclark said:

The picture is not as black and white as you paint it when you consider the following points.

1. Thailand has an unemployment rate of less than 1%.

2. Thailand has an aging population and declining birth rate.

 

These two points indicate that there juat aint enough thais to do the jobs needed to keep the country developing. And that in itself maybe a bigger threat to the lives and property of Thais than the superficial threat being painted here.

Thailand has no real means of measuring unemployment rates. 

There is no real agency that registers people employement status.

[Joebuzz]

On 6/28/2017 at 5:42 AM, whatawonderfulday said:

Don't worry about it, it is just the Thai administration becoming ultra xenophobic day by day because they are so incompetent at running their own country effectively they blame everything and anything on foreigners . A fascist state just a door knock away

You are absolutely correct. I had planned to start a business there and realized it just would not be worth my time, effort, or money.

[ELVIS123456]

7 hours ago, abrahamzvi said:

One question: why live in a country as bad as you describe Why not go back  home or try and find a better place to live in????

You wont get an answer mate - not a valid one anyway.  There are some posters who are just 'letting off steam' as one said and that is true, but some are at it all day every day.

[stephen tracy]

6 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

You wont get an answer mate - not a valid one anyway.  There are some posters who are just 'letting off steam' as one said and that is true, but some are at it all day every day.

The only thing I ever slag off is the government, but I think I've probably slagged off the government in every country I've lived, expect for maybe Canada.

[Stargeezr]

Are these Russians  the new young Mafia from that country, and do not care

if their visas were not current?

  Geezer

[greenchair]

14 hours ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

If this is true, you will need a 75% Thai partner to "employ yourself" if you have invested in a business here!  

Not only that, a small business must hire 6 thai workers for 1 foreigner .

Be 75 percent thai owned. 

The foreigner cannot work 2 jobs at one time. 

Such as work in a school then tutor on Saturday. 

There are no wp issued for weekend language  tutors  , so essentially all tutorials will no longer be able to hire English, Chinese, Japanese teachers. 

Therefore the wp law blocks academic freedoms, which is in conflict  with the constitution . 

[spidermike007]

On 6/28/2017 at 2:36 PM, ELVIS123456 said:

Sounds exactly right to me.  Many Expats on TV have bees n their bonnets - and think everything is about them.

 

Listen closely - foreign workers taking jobs from Thais threatens their lives - as in their living and family lives - they need work to live here - there is no unemployment payments - this aint your nanny state. 

 

Why they put that photo of some Russians with Visa issues is more about TV journalism.  But if it was meant to stir up the 'kittens' - it sure worked.

 

 

One of the most ridiculous posts I have read in months. Pure BS. Think about it. A lot of foreigners who work here teach english. How many expert english speakers do you run into here? Some of the people who work here are Russian tour guides. How many Thais do you meet that are fluent in Russian. Same applies to Mandarin. What about dive masters? If there were enough Thai dive masters, they would not be hiring foreigners, as they can probably get away with paying the Thais less money. Same applies to any area of expertise. The government in one statement brags about how the unemployment rate is only 1%. Then they scream about how foreigners are threatening Thai lives by working here. Which of these lies is closer to the truth? 

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

3 hours ago, greenchair said:

Not only that, a small business must hire 6 thai workers for 1 foreigner .

Be 75 percent thai owned. 

The foreigner cannot work 2 jobs at one time. 

Such as work in a school then tutor on Saturday. 

There are no wp issued for weekend language  tutors  , so essentially all tutorials will no longer be able to hire English, Chinese, Japanese teachers. 

Therefore the wp law blocks academic freedoms, which is in conflict  with the constitution . 

So they have in fact changed the investment rules to min 75% Thai shares from 51% if employing foreigners and 6 Thais for each foreign work permit instead of 4 as before!  If these facts are true who wants to invest in Thailand except huge corporations and companies trying to get BOI approval?

[greenchair]

3 minutes ago, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

So they have in fact changed the investment rules to min 75% Thai shares from 51% if employing foreigners and 6 Thais for each foreign work permit instead of 4 as before!  If these facts are true who wants to invest in Thailand except huge corporations and companies trying to get BOI approval?

Oh, I'm sorry perhaps it's 4. 

I thought it was 6. 

And I always thought it was 51 percent also, but that other guy says 75 percent. 

Bit confused ???

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/29/2017 at 9:13 AM, HiSoLowSoNoSo said:

 My GF told me if you tip-off the police you can get 25% of the fines that the employer have to pay if they get caught. So I recon the immigration holding cells will be full soon.

Yes, but then the police would arrest the tipster if they were a farang for doing paid work in Thailand without a work permit -- being a paid police informant.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 6/28/2017 at 8:46 PM, Arkady said:

The decree is fairly lengthy and seems to be effectively amending large chunks, if not all, of the 2008 Working of Aliens Act.  It is not clear why the government would want to amend the law by issuing a decree, rather than coming out with a new a Working of Aliens Act which could be easily passed by the appointed legislature, although it would be subject to public discussion under the new constitution and would take longer.  They must perceive the situation as being an emergency.  Another emergency decree was issued to do with the recruitment of foreign labour in August 2016. 

 

If I read it correctly, going through it at speed, the employer of aliens will need to be 75% owned by Thais and 75% of the shareholders will have to be Thai.  Also work permit fees are raised to B20,000.  However, this should be viewed as the maximum allowed by law. In the 2008 Act the maximum WP fee was B10,000 but they never charged that much.   

Presumably, at some point, probably sooner than later, one of the expat oriented law firms will do either a full translation of, and/or an analysis of this new employment decree. It would be very helpful if when such a thing surfaces, someone posts or links to it here.  Otherwise, in the meantime, folks are responding to and relying on vagaries.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

31 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Oh, I'm sorry perhaps it's 4. 

I thought it was 6. 

And I always thought it was 51 percent also, but that other guy says 75 percent. 

Bit confused ???

 

AFAIK, the law in the past was 51% Thai shareholding and 4 local employees per one farang work permit. (Although, those details apparently have been fairly widely varied from one labor office to another, based on past reports here).

 

However, the notion that it's changed is based just on a prior post in this thread by moderator Arkady who said that was his sense after quickly reading thru a long document that is the new decree. At least in this thread, there hasn't been any further elaboration or confirmation of that, at least as yet.

 

[IMA_FARANG]

Quote

selling their daughters into the sex trade.

----------------------------

Remember every sale requires both a  seller and a buyer

Can you honestly say that you never bought sex in Thailand

I can't.

 

[ELVIS123456]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

 

One of the most ridiculous posts I have read in months. Pure BS. Think about it. A lot of foreigners who work here teach english. How many expert english speakers do you run into here? Some of the people who work here are Russian tour guides. How many Thais do you meet that are fluent in Russian. Same applies to Mandarin. What about dive masters? If there were enough Thai dive masters, they would not be hiring foreigners, as they can probably get away with paying the Thais less money. Same applies to any area of expertise. The government in one statement brags about how the unemployment rate is only 1%. Then they scream about how foreigners are threatening Thai lives by working here. Which of these lies is closer to the truth? 

I could say the same thing about most of your posts - and every time I see your 'profile photo'.

Talk about pure BS - clearly full of it.

You clearly missed the point - yet again.

 

they .......... are ................ not .................. talking ................ about ......................you ...or ... expats.

 

they .......... are ................ talking ................ about ...................... the millions of ............ foreign workers ................. from Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, etc etc. ................ who are 'imported' illegally to work cheaply.

 

The TV 'journalist' inserted wrongly a photo of Russians - from a story back in March I believe.

 

That was tiring. No more crayon left today.  I am off to get a warm lettuce sandwich - with nutella dressing.

 

Elvis has left TV for the day. 

 

 

 

[Momofarang]

9 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I could say the same thing about most of your posts - and every time I see your 'profile photo'.

Talk about pure BS - clearly full of it.

You clearly missed the point - yet again.

 

they .......... are ................ not .................. talking ................ about ......................you ...or ... expats.

 

they .......... are ................ talking ................ about ...................... the millions of ............ foreign workers ................. from Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, etc etc. ................ who are 'imported' illegally to work cheaply.

 

The TV 'journalist' inserted wrongly a photo of Russians - from a story back in March I believe.

 

That was tiring. No more crayon left today.  I am off to get a warm lettuce sandwich - with nutella dressing.

 

Elvis has left TV for the day. 

 

 

 

I must have misunderstood something too. Somewhere in thread it said that ownership of companies  employing foreigners will have to be 75%. So, this won't affect the Farang who opens an Italian restaurant with his wife and self employs himself as chef, for instance? Can someone help me?

[Lobber]

i know for a fact fines of 400K Baht per person !!!!!!!!!!! have been issued to factories with illegal workers

[spidermike007]

This is really inane policy. Thailand, like the US, would cease to function as a nation, without the millions of illegal workers who keep the economy churning along. It is hysterical, unwise, non-visionary, and misguided policy, much like what we are seeing in the US. There is no basis in reality. In the US, you cannot even begin to address illegal immigration without discussing the reform of legal immigration, which is not talking place. The US immigration system is completely broken. Does the same apply here? I do not know. But, I do know that the hurdles are set quite high for the Cambodian and Burmese workers, and legal immigration here is very unreasonable for them. Same goes for Westerners who work here. 

[greenchair]

1 hour ago, ELVIS123456 said:

I could say the same thing about most of your posts - and every time I see your 'profile photo'.

Talk about pure BS - clearly full of it.

You clearly missed the point - yet again.

 

they .......... are ................ not .................. talking ................ about ......................you ...or ... expats.

 

they .......... are ................ talking ................ about ...................... the millions of ............ foreign workers ................. from Myanmar, Laos, Vietnam, etc etc. ................ who are 'imported' illegally to work cheaply.

 

The TV 'journalist' inserted wrongly a photo of Russians - from a story back in March I believe.

 

That was tiring. No more crayon left today.  I am off to get a warm lettuce sandwich - with nutella dressing.

 

Elvis has left TV for the day. 

 

 

 

It did say this law will apply to all foreigner. The law does not specify nationality. That would be discrimination and illegal.Perhaps you could learn to read before moving on to crayons. 

[curlylekan]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

This is really inane policy. Thailand, like the US, would cease to function as a nation, without the millions of illegal workers who keep the economy churning along. It is hysterical, unwise, non-visionary, and misguided policy, much like what we are seeing in the US. There is no basis in reality. In the US, you cannot even begin to address illegal immigration without discussing the reform of legal immigration, which is not talking place. The US immigration system is completely broken. Does the same apply here? I do not know. But, I do know that the hurdles are set quite high for the Cambodian and Burmese workers, and legal immigration here is very unreasonable for them. Same goes for Westerners who work here. 

I think you're quite wrong to state that any nation would not function without illegal workers, there are many nations that are homogeneous in nature, but function, have functioned and will continue to function just fine. Throughout history, societies have done this. Their are millions of migrants in the US who are there illegally and will continue to be. To say that any job exists that the nationals will not do I think is illogical. 

 

Now, to your second point, yes immigration does need to be looked at in a new way, but if you are illegally in a country, then you are illegal in a country. If I had a family to provide for, I certainly would take the risks where I can find a better life, but first, I would try legal means to do it, and if that doesn't work and my family is still crying for support, I might chance other means.

[kannot]

On 6/29/2017 at 2:10 AM, StevieAus said:

I

 

If there is such a shortage of work why are so many Burmese allowed to work here?

The fact is that the economy particularly agriculture could not survive without them

The answer is the Thais don't want to do those jobs

Local businesses tell me they have difficulty obtaining employees even offering good rates of pay and from my observations the staff don't seem to be dropping with exhaustion 

In a recent article dealing with Pyramid scams an official was quoted as saying that Thais want to be rich but don't want to work for it

aint that the truth

[kannot]

8 hours ago, Lobber said:

i know for a fact fines of 400K Baht per person !!!!!!!!!!! have been issued to factories with illegal workers

and  do you know for a  fact if they were ever paid?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Have folks seen the latest development on this from our hallowed leader?

 

 

[garbolino]

On 6/28/2017 at 3:08 PM, Mattd said:

If working illegally and doing a job that can be done by a Thai, then it is harming the People and country, it is taking a job off a local and likely not collecting income tax.

who pays income tax? the bar ladies do not....the food vendors do not....massage salons do not.....barbers/hairdressers do not...restaurants do not.....as far as I am aware !!

[nontabury]

On ‎28‎/‎6‎/‎2560 at 5:45 PM, the guest said:

There really needs to be a total shake-up on all foreigners living Thailand. Eg: money which they are their partners or indeed friends or colleagues may hold should be investigated to ensure no money laundering or tax invasion is taking place. For example: if a foreigner has money in the account which accrued whilst in Thailand, then this should be investigated to ensure no law was broken, that the person/s must supply evidence of where the money was obtained from, as they do now in Europe. 

 

I'm aware of many foreigners could be breaking the law or earning huge sums of money without paying the appropriate tax to the country or even are getting a income in Thailand without having the appropriate permits. This should also be tightly controlled. 

 

All foreigners are visitors, unless they have residency rights or citizenship, and thailand does have the right to control them as they see fit, accminuterding to the law that exists.

Much better to investigate the MANY rich Thai nationals who pay no tax. The amount not paid by Farangs is minute in comparison. 

[Rhys]

...really cultural forward thinking,,,,,,,cha ching...