Stomach ulcer - given too many drugs?

[tifino]

I am going to find out what actual course of action, that I will cop from tomorrow?

 

I have, since 1997, been on arthritis meds

I was for many years on Orudis, but with the balancer 'Acimax' to supposedly cancel out the effects.

My Dr was for ages debating, but eventually took me off it, due to the 'future risk' of ulcers.

 

 

The other day (late Friday) , out of the blue... 

... out at dinner, albeit only a small meal too!

I couldn't finish my favourite PuuNim dish

I was actively bloating suddenly like a balloon being pupupupumped

 

7 hours later (why I really discount a food poisoning) it is 2am, and I am still trying to sleep.

I have even stayed head high on the lounge, in case of sudden problems during sleep...

 

Took the initiative, and forced a vomit...

...torrents of Black, followed by more Brown stuff. No food (no carrots),

so from what I saw, all I could think of was:

Black vomit = old blood, and subsequent Brown vomit = not quite so old blood

Auto assume I have an unknown latent ulcer that's finally erupted???

 

more to come...

 

at 2 hr intervals...4am...6am... and finally 7:45 the last of the eruptions (with glasses of water in between)

 

That was all starting from 2AMhoursSat morning

 

anyhow, I then started looking online into what I am experiencing?

 

and a lot of it scares one about that 'triple treatment' regime etc

... more drugs - and the after effects

 

In the meantime, I had fortunately already weighed my self hours earlier on the Friday evening.

I weighed myself after the 4th episodes of eruptions...

... and I am now 2.6 kilos lighter, at that time

 

whatever happens from tomorrow - I am just keeping to hydration, no food

 

I am already a follower of Organic Unfiltered Apple Cider Vinegar, for it's stomach Ph balancing features

 

but, not looking forward to being drugged up again tho'

 

 

and not having coffee now for a while is a real downer too

[Tony125]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Good points... It may also be that these things have a placebo effect.

 

Still, I've been loading up on yogurt these past weeks, and adding cabbages (assuming eating the veg is the same as drinking the juice)  to the mix can't do any harm. Shipping over the special honey from NZ might be pushing it though.

Seem Manuka honey sold  in many places in Bangkok  and a few in Pattaya.

[perthperson]

53 minutes ago, tifino said:

Took the initiative, and forced a vomit...

...torrents of Black

You should seek URGENT medical advice. Black vomit could be an indicator of a serious problem.  Please do not delay seeing a doctor. 

[Sheryl]

As above. Go directly to an emergency room.

[tifino]

already been... and back home again, to await until tomorrow's appointment.

 

Funny the Dr said it was almost too early for even a blood test, but agreed when I asked to.

 

another review tomorrow

 

I expect (hope) a 'scope will be going in by Wednesday

 

 

been checking family history,

and granma & granpa & mum all were haitus hernia sufferers - all cancer related

 

which makes me think - especially how it came on so suddenly...

 

[RickG16]

This stuff goes down a treat; cabbage and mushroom soup. Not eaten enough to feel difference in stomach.

 

Does anyone know if actual cabbage is as good as cabbage juice?

[perdido]

On 30/06/2017 at 0:39 AM, carlyai said:

Why don't you go in and get a camera into the stomach, take a sample of the tissues while they're in there?

Then you should know exactly what you have and what treatment.

There seems to be (maybe) some correlation about taking quick ez and other stomach medication and finally developing pancreatic cancer.

 

 

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

...' quick ez ' ..?...what is this ?...

[RickG16]

2 hours ago, perdido said:

...' quick ez ' ..?...what is this ?...

Ez = easy ? 

[carlyai]

Ez = easy ? 

They are over the counter medicine you can buy for burning stomach.

Don't know if they have established a link between taking medicine for stomach problems and a lot later in life getting pancreatic cancer.
My brother in law took quick-ez for years, then died of pancreatic cancer, also a distant friend took medicine for fire in the stomach, and just died of pancreatic cancer as well.


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[RickG16]

On 7/18/2017 at 7:10 PM, carlyai said:

They are over the counter medicine you can buy for burning stomach.

Don't know if they have established a link between taking medicine for stomach problems and a lot later in life getting pancreatic cancer.
My brother in law took quick-ez for years, then died of pancreatic cancer, also a distant friend took medicine for fire in the stomach, and just died of pancreatic cancer as well.


Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

 I wish people wouldn't spread these scare stories without doing any research. Acid reflux ix a common symptom of pancreatic cancer, and acid reflux is treated with antacids. That doesn't mean there is a link between antacids and pancreatic cancer. 

[perthperson]

1 minute ago, RickG16 said:

Acid reflux ix a common symptom of pancreatic cancer

Not true ! 

 

"Indigestion or heartburn (dyspepsia) can sometimes be a symptom of pancreatic cancer. However, they are common problems and aren’t usually due to cancer."

 

https://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/information-and-support/facts-about-pancreatic-cancer/signs-and-symptoms/#indigestion

[RickG16]

19 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Not true ! 

 

"Indigestion or heartburn (dyspepsia) can sometimes be a symptom of pancreatic cancer. However, they are common problems and aren’t usually due to cancer."

 

https://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/information-and-support/facts-about-pancreatic-cancer/signs-and-symptoms/#indigestion

Yes they are common problems which can be due to a lot of things. But is also a symptom of pancreatic cancer - I didn't say all people who have this problem have pancreatic cancer.

 

Jeez... I'm trying to stop scare stories with little evidence, not add to them!

[carlyai]

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a small link between taking medicine for heartburn, etc and pancreatic cancer.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[RickG16]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I thought there was a small link between taking medicine for heartburn, etc and pancreatic cancer.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

I've lost count of the number of things that some researcher somewhere has linked to cancer - everything from burnt toast to bacon.

 

[RickG16]

Update... 

 

Stool test analysis came back negative for anything which might indicate an ulcer (I realise this doesn't mean 100% I don't have one) , and as I still have same feeling in stomach (which comes and goes) the doctor has advised me that he thinks it is a stomach abrasion rather than an ulcer.

 

Obviously I am off antibiotics now, and the doctor has asked me to continue antacid (omeprazole) for another month. When I took them without the digestive medicine for after a meal yesterday, my whole stomach felt strange so I think I will ask the doc to give me the other antacids i was taking before - digestive medicine and the pills for before bed.

 

Really tempted to just get the endoscopy done and know once and for all what it is, but I will soldier on with the antacids for another month and see if they can heal it.

Edited July 27, 2017 by RickG16

[Sheryl]

"Stomach abrasion" I assume he means gastritis but this is also usually caused by h. Pylori. Of course since you have already had a course of treatment to eradicate h. Pylori possible you did have it before.

However I am at a loss to understand how a doctor would infer gastritis rather than ulcer from a stool test regardless of results.

Either there is a significant language barrier or your doctor does not know what he is talking about.

Either way, I advise seeing a different dictor, a really good GI specialust. And yrs, quite likely endoscopy may be recommended when you do.

Where do you live?

I am a little puzzled by your sticking with this same doctor.

[RickG16]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

"Stomach abrasion" I assume he means gastritis but this is also usually caused by h. Pylori. Of course since you have already had a course of treatment to eradicate h. Pylori possible you did have it before.

However I am at a loss to understand how a doctor would infer gastritis rather than ulcer from a stool test regardless of results.

Either there is a significant language barrier or your doctor does not know what he is talking about.

Either way, I advise seeing a different dictor, a really good GI specialust. And yrs, quite likely endoscopy may be recommended when you do.

Where do you live?

I am a little puzzled by your sticking with this same doctor.

Koh Phangan, this doctor is from the public hospital, I'm reluctant to go private just yet.

 

Its a small island and I'm not sure theres such a thing as a GI specialist. If I got the endoscopy they would refer me to Surat Thani which I assume would be a GI specialist.

 

 

[Sheryl]

You don't necessarily need to go private (and where you live it would not be an improvement). But you do need to go off the island.

options:

1. Government hospital in Surat Thani. You will need to spend some time before you get to the specialist. As in multiple visits. Given costs of hotel etc may be just as cheap to go to a private hospital where you can make appointment with GI specialist immediately in which case:

2. Taksin hospital in Suratthani

[RickG16]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

You don't necessarily need to go private (and where you live it would not be an improvement). But you do need to go off the island.

options:

1. Government hospital in Surat Thani. You will need to spend some time before you get to the specialist. As in multiple visits. Given costs of hotel etc may be just as cheap to go to a private hospital where you can make appointment with GI specialist immediately in which case:

2. Taksin hospital in Suratthani

Yup, on this island the public hospital is widely considered better.

 

If I was referred to Surat for an endoscopy, surely it would be a GI specialist who looked at the results? After all, if I'm paying in the region of 10k baht I'd like the person looking to understand what they are looking at?

[observer90210]

Why not try homeopathy with a good homeopath doctor, if available?

[Sheryl]

6 hours ago, RickG16 said:

Yup, on this island the public hospital is widely considered better.

 

If I was referred to Surat for an endoscopy, surely it would be a GI specialist who looked at the results? After all, if I'm paying in the region of 10k baht I'd like the person looking to understand what they are looking at?

 

Yes, if you get an endoscopy it will be done by a GI specialist. But you will likely first have to go through a process of being seen by a GP (often a med student or intern) to get the specialist appointment. IF you have a letter for referral from the govt hospital in KP you might -- just might - be able to get a direct  appointment based on that.  But no guarantee.

[RickG16]

Have I been misdiagnosed? 

 

It occurred to me today that my stomach pain has predominantly  been on the right side - looking at the diagram of the body this is where the intestines and colon are rather than the stomach - so maybe this isn't a stomach ulcer or gastritis? 

 

If so,  an endoscopy wouldn't be looking in the right place?

 

Any thoughts  welcome

[ELVIS123456]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Have I been misdiagnosed? 

 

It occurred to me today that my stomach pain has predominantly  been on the right side - looking at the diagram of the body this is where the intestines and colon are rather than the stomach - so maybe this isn't a stomach ulcer or gastritis? 

 

If so,  an endoscopy wouldn't be looking in the right place?

 

Any thoughts  welcome

My thoughts are - take Sheryl's advice and go see a specialist.

Clearly the medications have not worked, and therefore it could be something serious (or not).

IMO stop worrying about costs and go see a specialist (or two). 

If it is something serious, the sooner you are diagnosed the better - cost becomes irrelevant.

If it costs you a little money to be diagnosed with something non-serious - priceless.

 

[RickG16]

20 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

My thoughts are - take Sheryl's advice and go see a specialist.

Clearly the medications have not worked, and therefore it could be something serious (or not).

IMO stop worrying about costs and go see a specialist (or two). 

If it is something serious, the sooner you are diagnosed the better - cost becomes irrelevant.

If it costs you a little money to be diagnosed with something non-serious - priceless.

 

I will finish the month of antacids as the doctor advised. If I can still feel something then he will refer me to a specialist in Surat Thani.

 

It helps me to go to the doctor equipped with as much info as possible. Hence why I post on here.

 

Was just a head scratcher because if the stomach itself is on the left, how can it be a stomach ulcer if  pain is mostly on the right?

Edited August 9, 2017 by RickG16

[Sheryl]

Ulcers are often in the duodenum which is located sort of horizontally from around the midline of the abdomen and then a little to the right. For that matter, the stomach is sort of crescent shaped with the lower part (usual site for ulcers) lying mid-line rather than left.

 

in any event, pain can be referred along nerve routes so where you feel it is nto necessarily the exact location of the problem.

 

That said, right-sided pain can also be indicative of liver or gall bladder problems. An ultrasound of the upper abdomen would be useful. Also take note of when the pain occurs or what makes it worse, GB related pain  usually worse after eating food that contains fat.

[leddie]

On 8/9/2017 at 10:34 PM, Sheryl said:

Ulcers are often in the duodenum which is located sort of horizontally from around the midline of the abdomen and then a little to the right. For that matter, the stomach is sort of crescent shaped with the lower part (usual site for ulcers) lying mid-line rather than left.

 

in any event, pain can be referred along nerve routes so where you feel it is nto necessarily the exact location of the problem.

 

That said, right-sided pain can also be indicative of liver or gall bladder problems. An ultrasound of the upper abdomen would be useful. Also take note of when the pain occurs or what makes it worse, GB related pain  usually worse after eating food that contains fat.

Sheryl

 

Do you know the local brand name of any dual combo antibiotic in 1 pill?  Could this be taken alone if the pain isn't too bad, or do you have to also take the PPI?  In other words would the treatment work just with the antibiotics?  Could this be an acceptable approach rather than jumping straight in for an endoscopy?

 

Thanks for advice.

[Sheryl]

If you want to treat empirically for h. pylroi

 

1 -  you must still take triple therapy. Cannot omit the PPI, the treatment will not work if you do. (Even with correct treatment, failure rates are pretty high, often need multiple courses of treatment. Took me 3 separate courses of triple therapy x 10 days.)

 

2 - it will take weeks to months to see symptomatic improvement even if this was the culprit - and, if you had any significant amount of ulceration or gastritis you would need to continue to  take PPIs afterwards for a few months to promote healing.

 

As no doctor has yet recommended endoscopy for you, you may be getting ahead of yourself.  The specialist might not suspect gastritis/ulcer disease at all after taking a full history, in which case no need for endoscopy and treating for h.pylori would not be indicated either. 

 

Urea breath test is an alternative to endoscopy (and much cheaper) to identify if h. pylori is present. It will not tell you if there is ulceration or serious inflammation but the doctor might make an inference based on your symptoms, if your issue is wanting to avoid gastroscopy.

 

You really need to have this conversation with a good GI specialist after providing him/her with a detailed history. Trying to self-treat without a real diagnsosis is at best likely to be a waste of time and money, at worse may aggravate your problems or miss something important.

[swissie]

No ulcer, annual-stomach endoskopies show nothing, but still stomach pain. No Helicobacter Pylori. Have been taking "Omeprazol" for years.(20 mg) Had bad case of "Reflux" recently, so Doctor increased dosage to 80 mg for 2 weeks, then 1 week 40 mg per day. It worked! Then back to 20mg (as usual before).
20 mg will not do anymore. Stomach pain and reflux is back.
Back to higher dosage again? Side effects when increasing dosage long term? 40 to 80 mg? Can't consult my doctor= he is on holiday in southern Spain and dreaming of "early-retirement". (Pharmacist told me that a long-term daily dosage of 80mg Omeprazol per day is generally not recommended). Why not?

- How can "stomach-problems" occur, when all medical examinations indicate, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with my stomach, except for the fact, that my stomach produces excessive amounts of acid.
Nobody has been able to explain to me, why my stomach produces far more acid than needed. For the last 10 years!

-I am on the verge to consult any "Snake-Oil" salesman including his clairvoiant uncle, hoping for answers/relief.
Before engaging in such adventures, I trust, that Sheryl will give some "input", keeping me from ending up in the fangs of some Snake-oil salesmen and their uncles.
Thx & cheers.

[tonray]

Higher doses may decrease acid production to a point where you are comfortable but unable to properly digest food and therefore not get enough nutrients into your system. I think these proton-pump inhibitors are useful but they also mask whatever is the real cause of your issue. It 'may' be excess stomach acid production or it may be normal production of acid that your system for some underlying reason is unable to handle. I hope Sheryl can advise of further tests and specialists because long term use is a band aid and not a cure.

[Sheryl]

Swissie: I need more specific information on your symptoms, Where does it hurt, like what, when etc