Thai Driving Habits

[tatom]

We all know what its like on the roads here, so Im not going to get into storys about what Ive seen. Im a natural student of human nature and I would just like to know WHY do they drive this way? Rich, poor, educated or not, male or female, it makes no difference, the majority, it seems, drive like maniacs. Im sure Ill get alot of wisecracks in responce to this, but I hope there are some serious posts as well. Tom Salarak Khon Kaen

[OldAsiaHand]

Lousy driving is hardly a character trait of Thais alone, but still, you do have a point.

I've always thought there was something cultural about it, a sort of Buddhist 'shit happens and there's not much you can do about it' approach to the whole process. Have even ever noticed how Thai drivers will frequently go right through an intersection without looking either left or right? It's almost like they were saying 'If I don't know about omething, it can't be a problem for me.' That attitude toward life seem particularly Thai to me.

[Zmegma]

Actually, I think they drive quite nicely here compare to other places. If you find this place scary you should try India or Nepal. Give it a try also in Venezuela. South Florida in the USA can also be scary with old those people past expiration date still driving.

[tatom]

Oldasiahand, I know what youre saying, but Im still not convinced. They act as though its the end of the world when 14 people die of the bird virus, and they stop eating chicken. But, 7-8 hundred people die on the roads during Songkran, and its just "mai pen li". It seems that it bothers us farangs more than it does the Thais that they are slaughtering each other out there.

[Padkapow Guy]

South Florida in the USA can also be scary with old those people past expiration date still driving.

[keda]

Might sound a bit abrasive but I feel it has something to do with Thais - generally - being unable to do too many things at one time. In part this applies also off the road.

Drivers are constantly being bombarded with a phenomenal amount of data. In this context we are trained how to think, to anticipate what's not only ahead but also behind and around us. See a ball bounce into the road and be on instant alert - expect a child to follow, then expect the unpredictable from local traffic; overtake a stationary vehicle and expect a door to open, or someone to run out from the blindside. If the driver ahead is indicating left it doesn't mean he's turning left; if cross lights are amber as you approach, do not assume other drivers are going to stop...

Also, we learn or at least subconsciously understand concepts such as time and distance and speed, and paramount is always safety. An accident to us is a major event; someone fouled up; it shouldn't have happened.

Then we learn consideration for other road users, courtesy, and above all common sense. Sure, farangs can be as nasty pieces of work as any Thai, but other variables being equal I suspect we generally agree on the principles of safety, consideration and common sense.

Many Thai drivers, imho, should not be allowed anywhere near a public road. Those that do have a license, and assuming they have actually passed the test, were tested on little more than how to start, drive, turn, squeeze through a gate with a foot spare on either side, a bit of reverse, brief practical and it's all over, now go kill someone.

And there are other contributing factors, perhaps religion, as someone mentioned, a general or even genetic inability to function efficiently under the acute pressure of so much incoming data, coordination of mind and body...and no doubt much more if we sat down to really think about it.

As you say there is little point in citing personal experiences of sheer idiocy on the road, because there are so many, and they occur almost daily, but here is a common one. Details may vary, although it is common enough for any motorbike rider.to relate to.

You're driving along a main road, not much traffic, and see a car up ahead meeting your road from a side street or U-turn gap. The other vehicle may come to a full stop, though this has nothing to do with the stop sign. They are simply thinking if they can safely turn into your road. Your mind computes your approximate speed/distance and tells you no, it is not safe for them to make the turn. You also see they have stopped, and you naively proceed, ignoring that piece of data as irrelevant. As you approach - out they come, right into your path.

What has happened? The driver has seen you approaching in the distance. He knows you have right of way, and stops to compute his own chances of turning safely - he doesn't want to hit you or be hit by you - ...but by the time he has the result (yes, it is safe) you are already dangerously closer than you were when he started, but he has the result and out he comes anyway. Swerve or brake, hoot, rage, and if you manage to make eye contact you'll get that quaint, 'sorry but I'm Thai' smile.

Few weeks ago I actually had to leap off my bike just before it hit and bounced off the rear wheel of a double trailer that started turning from an impossible position. At the point that I parted company with said bike, less than twenty yards, the truck was still roadblocking the entire Sukhumvit in front of me, from central reservation onto the hard shoulder. Even other drivers waiting at the U-turn gap were honking the fool from the moment he started to move.

[ThaiPauly]

I think the whole situation was summed up beutifully by someone who said

All Thais drive their cars as if they have just stolen them.

Zebra crossings -- do me a favour

Traffic Lights--------does anyone take any notice

One way streets----your having a laugh

And thats just the Tip of this particular iceberg

but what really amazes me is that when I am in a taxi and it gets cut up or cuts in nobpdy suffers with road rage like we farang would, why is that?

[roamer]

I always read these posts with a sense of disbelief. I guess I've driven about 80 miles today in and around london, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been cut up, sworn at (and retaliated), avoided people jumping lights, sat fuming behind buses that never pull into bus stops...the list is endless and all of it done with often muderous intent. Granted, in Thailand I've watched trucks coming towards me down the wrong side of a dual carriageway cos the gap in the rails is nearer that way...GROSS violation of road rules, but in reality he has his hazards flashing and is going slow...less of a danger than the idots over here going the right way who don't bother to look when pulling out. The Songkran thing, bit of an old chestnut, if you break down the figures...most deaths are helmetless bike riders, closely followed by 38 people in a pickup etc.

For myself I find the relaxed attitude to driving in LOS infinitely preferable to the gotta be there yesterday style that exists here.

[pnustedt]

The design of the roads leaves a lot to be desired. Seems daft to have a 10 lane highway with the centre lane (normally fast lane) for stationary vehicles who want to do a U turn and the outside line for vehicles coming in the opposite direction.

I also have difficulty understanding why the green "petrol" pumps are for diesel - normally it's unleaded petrol! Oh well . . . TIT

[Koh_Falang]

I also have difficulty understanding why the green "petrol" pumps are for diesel - normally it's unleaded petrol! Oh well . . . TIT

Cant say ive ever noticed the colour codes on petrol pumps

[taxexile]

the thais seem to consider themselves having the right to do what they want,where they want,when they want without anybody else complaining or challenging them. put them in the closed off world of the car and this right becomes magnified. any minute amount of greng jai that they might have had for other road users goes out of the window and they become as maniacal behind the wheel as it is possible to be, couple this with an inability to forsee the consequences of their madness,the lack of any driver training and huge numbers of deaths from road accidents are the inevitable result.

if anybody gets in their way..... well then,its their fault for being there.

[pnustedt]

Cant say ive ever noticed the colour codes on petrol pumps

I did after I'd got a tank full of diesel in my petrol car!

[Pink Mist]

Cant say ive ever noticed the colour codes on petrol pumps

I did after I'd got a tank full of diesel in my petrol car!

Unleaded has green shroud on dispenser over here in Oz.

[mbkudu]

My two favorites are the buses that stop in the center lane and expect you to get off at the bus stop and the high speed spinning metal engine fans that are used without any sort of guard, that are conveniently placed on the dash board of buses to keep the driver cool. One time almost had my arse torn off by one. Thailand makes you open your eyes to the world. If you don't stay alert, a silly thing could be disaster.

[Ned]

Taxexile.......I couldn't agree with you more. 'Freedom', Thai style.

[penzman]

It begins in grade school, where I teach the stairs have arrows on each step in the staiways, green for going up (on the right) and red for going down (on the left). Maybe all those drivers on the wrong side of the road came from my school

[thundstuen]

The reason why the Thais "drive like they had stolen their cars" like earlier mentioned, I believe is a mix of various causes mentioned earlier, with the religion being the most important one. Many Thais simply don't care whether they live or die cause they "know" they'll reincarnated, hopefully as a rich person. Another thing I believe is the Thais completely lack of respect for everything(The working class males anyway). For other people, laws and regulations etc. Of course the training is an important factor - When you can just bribe off the guy evaluating your driving abilities with a few hundred Bath to pass it, what can you expect?

Just my opinions...

Best regards,

Trond

http://www.affiliateguiding.com/

[KevinN]

I can't see why all this conversation, everyone knows that without enforcement,you can not expect most people to obey any law.

If there is no danger of a ticket that will cost you money or a jail term for violation of any law,then who will obey? no one,plus a Thai doesn't even see you as you are unimportant to him,he only see his own immediate family.

There was a very good post about this on another thread about Thai driving habits a short while back.look it up and read the report on the Thai thought process and their disregard for anything not pertaining directly to them.

But still the main reason is lack of any hiway traffic law enforcement. How often have you[if ever] seen a car stopped by Thai Hiway patrol and writing out a ticket? or just seen a patrol car on the hiway without just being there to run as blocker for a politician or VIP in a van going somewhere.

[350torana]

Don't laugh , but I think Thais are quite skilful drivers . It is the interaction with other cars, motorbikes, pushbikes, som tom carts, soi dogs ect... that needs improving. I say skilful because of the driving down the narrow soi's and reversing into small parks at the supermarket (keeping thier premium insurance) etc. I agree that driving on the open road is a big problem. Recently, my wife had to retake her driving test. It involded cruising around a course with only a hillstart and reversing into a spot (didn't seem to check whether an auto or manaul) Nothing about on the open road where most casualties occur

[lungbing]

They're just as inconsiderate when walking. How many times have you had a Thai force their way past you in a crowd and then stop dead in front of you.

I know Bangkok is more congested than upcountry, but we still have our fair share of idiots. Thais have no sense of lane discipline at all and will wandering across all available lanes and then normally turn left from the outermost lane. The white line is, of course, to be used to centre the car's bonnet (hood for you Americans) on.

[KevinN]

How very right you are,I have said this before and I do know that it is noticed by a lot of people, The line is only to mark the approx. center of the roadway and it really doesn't matter where it is in relationship to where you are driving or which way,just kind of a reference point.

I have also noticed that a Thai will stand in the middle of isles and sidewalks with 3 friends and they will talk on their cells and expect you to walk off the sidewalk or wait til they decide to move out of the center,and you are an uncouth bastard if you tell them to move.

Standing line at banks or cashiers is not for most of them either, But they have learned if it is me in the line,that it does form behind me,one time is enough for most.

[tatom]

Well, thanks for all the replys. I dont really buy the religion part, they dont want to die any more than we do. As for not being able to process all the incoming data, such as sights and sounds on the road as well as in the vehicle, I agree 100%! Add a mobile phone to the equation and its a miracle there arnt more accidents. Actually, Ive always envied the fact that thier minds are occupied by only one thought at a time. Our minds are constantly being bombbarded by countless thoughts and that can be unnerving at times. I think its a positive trait the Thais have, it just doesnt mix well with operating a motor vehicle. The bad driving was only part of my question, perhaps I should have been more clear. Why do they drive so fast? Ive never seen a Thai in a hurry to do anything. For example, a group of people are hanging around, some sleeping, some watching tv, and of course some eating. Just killing time in general. Someone suggests they go visit lets say, thier brother who lives 10-20 km. away. It takes an hour for everyone to finally get in gear and get in the car. All very casual. The driver starts the car, gets on the road, and floors it all the way. Once there, they get out, some go back to sleep, some watch tv and some start eating again. Everything in slow motion except the driving. I just dont get it. Why does the driving have to be fast while everything else is at a snails pace?

[350torana]

It is called "Thai time" . I do not think mobile phones are the main problem but eating I admit I do not drive here ( too shit scared) .But my wife loves to eat and drive, mostly fishballs on a skewer or some snack(me sitting in the passemger seat with a chang) .I dread to think what will happen if she brakes suddenly..must be some university that has stats on mouth impalements in Bkk

[natee1]

Drivers are constantly being bombarded with a phenomenal amount of data. In this context we are trained how to think, to anticipate what's not only ahead but also behind and around us. See a ball bounce into the road and be on instant alert - expect a child to follow, then expect the unpredictable from local traffic; overtake a stationary vehicle and expect a door to open, or someone to run out from the blindside. If the driver ahead is indicating left it doesn't mean he's turning left; if cross lights are amber as you approach, do not assume other drivers are going to stop...

This is how I would describe Thai-driving, if there is such a thing.

I feel much safer in the streets of Bangkok than anywhere else I have been, sure, mistakes are being made and the concept of space is Asian.

Drivers are constantly aware of other 'objects' moving in traffic, such as me on my motorbike. I couldn't say the same for most European countries.

[walker]

I agree with 350 torana..... I think that, as a rule, Thais are very skillful, proficient drivers. Westerners tend to mix up good driving with following a set of rules. Can you imagine the results if everyone in BKK or CM followed the speed limits, kept a lenghty distance between vehicles and was generally polite? ######, it'd be faster to belly crawl to your destination. I believe that excess speed only rarely is responsible for accidents in Thailand, and that moronic behavior is far deadlier. Actions like stopping inexplicably (for example, to let someone cross the street or to avoid an animal), or being on the cellphone, or eating, putting on makeup, etc., all of which are activities that westerners are at least as likely to be guilty of as Thais.

[Dutchy]

Many Thais simply don't care whether they live or die cause they "know" they'll reincarnated, hopefully as a rich person. Another thing I believe is the Thais completely lack of respect for everything(The working class males anyway). For other people, laws and regulations etc.

I guess you're on track here, many Thais don't care if other people live or die, the lack of respect for everything is a main cause in my opinion.

dutchy

[KevinN]

This was posted by "peteypie on 03-19-04"

It's not about the physicality of driving, it's about what's going on inside the persons' brain. As Asian culture tends to have a different concept of 'self', (read Scollon and Scollon, 2001. Intercultural Communication 2nd ed. Oxford. Blackwells Publications) therefore the awareness of others, those not part of that self, also differs. Whereas the average 'farang' has the culturally enforced concept of others as being part of our own personal environment and are therefore aware of their presence, many Asians, and in this case specifically Thais, only see their close relatives and friends as being part of the equation. Others, ie other road users, are therefore not regarded as being there! They are not part of the physical and visual arena which makes up the 'family circle' the image of 'self' that they are used to. Am I losing people here? Let me give you an example. You're in a restaurant with your wife and kids, a crazed lunatic runs in and begins shooting people, what do you do? Yes! You grab your wife and kids and hit the floor. You don't even consider the other people in the restaurant until your family is safe but then you do consider them and do your best to save them. The first part is the Asian concept of self. That blinding, instinctive impression of who is around us and who is valueable is what is happening to your average Thai driver all of the time. He/she isn't aware that you are there or that their driving is creating a problem for other road users, there isn't anyone else on the road as far as they are concerned! Only when they hit you, or some other road user, does the second stage kick in. As for the actual quality of driving skills, well the next time you follow a vehicle up a narrow soi, notice how the driver will stop and not attempt to go through a gap which your average farang driver could drive a tanker truck through without slowing down. This one I'm not so sure about. Thai drivers seem unable to judge lengths and widths of spaces? Also, you never see Thai drivers attempting to reverse a vehicle into a road side parking space? Again lengths and widths? When they turn into a soi in their car, they swing out into the road before turning left into the soi, just as though they had a 'semi' with a 40 foot trailer behind? Obviously, if these people have actually had driving lessons, their instructor taught them to do these things, why? Anyone out there got any ideas? On a closing note, as a former driving instructor, I've yet to meet or see a Thai to whom I'd even consider giving a driving licence to. As a farang motorcycle driver, I've had to learn to reign in my temper so many times that it isnt real. Only after reading the aforementioned book, did I truly begin to realise that all Thai drivers weren't trying to kill me personally, they just didn't know I was even there!! Now, whenever I have a near death experience, I just smile at the offender and think 'ji yen yen' I feel more at peace with myself and don't give myself high blood pressure. Oh! I also drive through red lights, the wrong way down the dual-carriageway, always on the hard shoulder, never look when I turn out of my soi, overtake in front of oncoming traffic and feel I'm becoming more Thai every day?! Everyone I encounter and cut up always smiles at me, it's great.

--------------------

peter g edan

[maerim]

Everyone I encounter and cut up always smiles at me, it's great.

Obviously you have not encountered and cut me up yet.

[zappa]

Having ridden a motorcycle in BKK for four years, I think in general most Thai drivers aren't to bad, most have an extra sense, especially when it comes to looking out for their two wheeled bretheren. On the other hand Thai motorcyclists are absolubtly nuts. I think in the main it's a major lack of imagination, they just can't imagine how much pain is going to be involved when, and I mean when and not if, they come off.

[Up2U]

Here is a run-down on European accidents for 2002.

Can anyone supply a Thai equivalent? The Ministry of Transport / Police / other source?

http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/care/s...wn/index_en.htm

Note that the UK accident rate at 1.5% looks like the lowest in Europe. I know it is among the lowest, but not sure if this figure is comparable. I usually check the accident rate per 100,000 km driven. UK is usually on a par with the Netherlands, both being half the rate of France and Germany, with Italy, Spain and Greece above them.