Take Two for Trump in talks with unnerved European allies

[webfact]

Take Two for Trump in talks with unnerved European allies

By Roberta Rampton and Jeff Mason

 

FILE PHOTO: U.S. President Donald Trump attends a working dinner meeting at the NATO headquarters during a NATO summit of heads of state and government in Brussels, Belgium, May 25, 2017. REUTERS/Matt Dunham/Pool/File Photo

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump will get a chance to patch up trans-Atlantic ties this week when he meets with NATO allies still rattled by his failure on an earlier trip to embrace the principle that an attack against one member is an attack against all.

 

Trump heads to Warsaw on Wednesday where the White House said he would showcase his commitment to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization in a speech and in meetings with a group of nations closest to Russia on his way to the G20 summit in Germany on Friday and Saturday.

 

"He will lay out a vision not only for America's future relationship with Europe, but the future of our trans-Atlantic alliance, and what that means for American security and American prosperity," Trump's national security adviser, H.R. McMaster, told reporters last week.

 

Aside from shoring up the U.S. relationship with NATO allies, the speech is symbolically significant given Poland's proximity to Russia and regional fears about Moscow's ambitions following its 2014 annexation of Crimea from Ukraine.

 

It was only six weeks ago when Trump, meeting with NATO leaders in Brussels, scolded them for failing to spend enough on defence during a speech in which the Republican president was expected to explicitly endorse NATO's Article 5, the collective defence provision of the treaty.

 

He slammed Germany for its trade practices, and shortly after returning home, pulled out of the 2015 Paris climate deal, leaving his officials to try to smooth ruffled feelings.

 

"They have spent a lot of their time trying to undo or explain away some of the images and the mood that came out of the last trip to Europe," said Derek Chollet, a top defence official for former Democratic President Barack Obama.

 

German Chancellor Angela Merkel, the host of the Group of 20 meeting of leading economies, has signalled she will not back down on climate and trade.

 

FIRST MEETING WITH PUTIN

 

That is not the only tough meeting for Trump during his trip. He will meet for the second time with Chinese President Xi Jinping, with whom he has expressed some frustration for failing to use enough leverage to curb North Korea's nuclear programme.

 

Pyongyang said on Tuesday it successfully test-launched a newly developed intercontinental ballistic missile, which analysts said could put all of the U.S. state of Alaska in range for the first time.

 

Trump is under pressure at home to take a tough line in his first face-to-face meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin on issues such as Moscow's support for President Bashar al-Assad in Syria's civil war and allegations of Russian meddling in last year's U.S. election.

 

But first, there is Poland: a NATO member near Russia that meets its defence spending goals, hosts close to 1,000 U.S. troops and is eager to buy liquefied natural gas from U.S. companies to counterbalance Russian gas supplies in the region.

 

"The threat that Russia poses cannot be overstated," Poland's ambassador to the United States, Piotr Wilczek, told reporters last week.

 

"Now is the time for allied solidarity," Wilczek said.

 

(Additional reporting by Jan Pytalski; Editing by Chris Sanders and Peter Cooney)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-07-05

[funandsuninbangkok]

As Maggie Thatcher said," They're a weak lot. "

[Presto]

I hope and expect they will help him to find his black limousine when necessary. And will supply a golf cart when walking is too tiring.

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

As Maggie Thatcher said," They're a weak lot. "

Ancient history, dude.

Right now, Merkel and Macron are in a much stronger position than trump.

He's a laughingstock. 

European leaders correctly see him as mentally impaired and like a bull in a china shop.

They talk about him as if he's a child.

Americans have been deeply disgraced by elevating this clown to the presidency. 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Jingthing

[docshock13]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Ancient history, dude.

Right now, Merkel and Macron are in a much stronger position than trump.

He's a laughingstock. 

European leaders correctly see him as mentally impaired and like a bull in a china shop.

They talk about him as if he's a child.

Americans have been deeply disgraced by elevating this clown to the presidency. 

Say what you want about Trump. He is one man. 

If you are an American, you should be ashamed to align yourself with liberal, Marxist EuroTrash that the American (and Allied)  heroes liberated over 70 years ago. And for the record, I am not American. Though I wouldn't exist without American benevolence to my forebearers. If you feel disgraced by Trump (as an American) that is up to you. I also feel disgraced by my leader. Fortunately, that is our right (for the time being) and we can vote them out next election cycle.  If we are not careful, it may no longer be so. Careful where you tread. Your Marxist Utopia could end up a gulag (as has been illustrated in recent history). 

My entire family owes a debt to America and its people. 

More importantly, Canada has just rewarded a terrorist with $7.7 mil USD. Is that the kind of post-nationalist, PC world you want to live in? Grow up, "dude." 

Edited July 5, 2017 by docshock13
Amendment

[Jingthing]

Say what you want about Trump. He is one man. 
If you are an American, you should be ashamed to align yourself with liberal, Marxist EuroTrash that the American (and Allied)  heroes liberated over 70 years ago. And for the record, I am not American. Though I wouldn't exist without American benevolence to my forebearers. If you feel disgraced by Trump (as an American) that is up to you. I also feel disgraced by my leader. Fortunately, that is our right (for the time being) and we can vote them out next election cycle.  If we are not careful, it may no longer be so. Careful where you tread. Your Marxist Utopia could end up a gulag (as has been illustrated in recent history). 
My entire family owes a debt to America and its people. 
More importantly, Canada has just rewarded a terrorist with $7.7 mil USD. Is that the kind of post-nationalist, PC world you want to live in? Grow up, "dude." 

Anti fascist is not the same thing as pro communist.

Next ...

[Presto]

49 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

Say what you want about Trump. He is one man. 

If you are an American, you should be ashamed to align yourself with liberal, Marxist EuroTrash that the American (and Allied)  heroes liberated over 70 years ago. And for the record, I am not American. Though I wouldn't exist without American benevolence to my forebearers. If you feel disgraced by Trump (as an American) that is up to you. I also feel disgraced by my leader. Fortunately, that is our right (for the time being) and we can vote them out next election cycle.  If we are not careful, it may no longer be so. Careful where you tread. Your Marxist Utopia could end up a gulag (as has been illustrated in recent history). 

My entire family owes a debt to America and its people. 

More importantly, Canada has just rewarded a terrorist with $7.7 mil USD. Is that the kind of post-nationalist, PC world you want to live in? Grow up, "dude." 

'Trump is one man.' OK, got it. Not two men, not half a man.

'liberal, Marxist EuroTrash'. What exactly does that mean? Sounds rather incoherent, but that's just me probably. So please elaborate.

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Presto

[docshock13]

Delete

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by docshock13
Double post

[docshock13]

4 minutes ago, Presto said:

'Trump is one man.' OK, got it. Not two men, not half a man.

'liberal, Marxist EuroTrash'. What exactly does that mean? Sounds rather incoherent, but that's just me probably. So please elaborate.

 

I think it is rather clear to those with a basic education in history, political science and have served their nations. E.g. Year 9 of public school (depending on where you come from). 

[docshock13]

7 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

Do you know what fascism and communism actually are? Have you actually lived under these types of regimes? Or are you just happy to get on the latest social media bandwagon? 

17 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Anti fascist is not the same thing as pro communist.

Next ...

Do you know what fascism and communism actually are? Have you actually lived under these types of regimes? Or are you just happy to get on the latest social media bandwagon? 

 

[Presto]

15 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

I think it is rather clear to those with a basic education in history, political science and have served their nations. E.g. Year 9 of public school (depending on where you come from). 

Please explain to the uneducated. Btw, I was brought up by parents who have experienced fascism and dictatorship, and maybe that's why I recognize the symptoms of rising fascism in the US. And my father also served in the American army, at age 23, in a unit going after war criminals in Germany in '44, '45. You could say that formed me. Trump is a disgrace, but apparently a good demagogue, for millions. Frightening.

[funandsuninbangkok]

4 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Ancient history, dude.

Right now, Merkel and Macron are in a much stronger position than trump.

He's a laughingstock. 

European leaders correctly see him as mentally impaired and like a bull in a china shop.

They talk about him as if he's a child.

Americans have been deeply disgraced by elevating this clown to the presidency. 

Europe cannot even defend itself. 

 

Trump is speaking truth to power. They need to raise their armies and face off the Russians. 

 

Why the hell should Amercans defend rich Europeans from poor Russians?

[Meljames]

11 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

I think it is rather clear to those with a basic education in history, political science and have served their nations. E.g. Year 9 of public school (depending on where you come from). 

It really isn't clear at all. Your rant is symptomatic of much of what American politics have devolved into. Frustration based on lack of power and a slipping influence.

[Jingthing]

Please explain to the uneducated. Btw, I was brought up by parents who have experienced fascism and dictatorship, and maybe that's why I recognize the symptoms of rising fascism in the US. And my father also served in the American army, at age 23, in a unit going after war criminals in Germany in '44, '45. You could say that formed me. Trump is a disgrace, but apparently a good demagogue, for millions. Frightening.

There is no doubt whatsoever that the trumpist movement is deeply fascistic in nature. It doesn't need to match every technical rule of the definition of fascism to be that.

[Jingthing]

Europe cannot even defend itself. 
 
Trump is speaking truth to power. They need to raise their armies and face off the Russians. 
 
Why the hell should Amercans defend rich Europeans from poor Russians?

My post wasn't about that.

[observer90210]

Ok so Trump is a nut (i'm am no fan)..

 

Then it means that only nuts and idiots are good businessmen who can generate billions in business revenues through various incentives and ventures?

 

Can Merkel or Macron claim having generated millions through private business?

 

Who can explain?

[docshock13]

8 minutes ago, Presto said:

Please explain to the uneducated. Btw, I was brought up by parents who have experienced fascism and dictatorship, and maybe that's why I recognize the symptoms of rising fascism in the US. And my father also served in the American army, at age 23, in a unit going after war criminals in Germany in '44, '45. You could say that formed me. Trump is a disgrace, but apparently a good demagogue, for millions. Frightening.

First, much respect to your father for defending the defenseless. As my fathers and grandfathers have. Second, I want to point out one thing: my sharp criticism of the endorsement of Merkel/Macron was not an endorsement of Trump. If you look at my original post I do not endorse Trump. Though, given history I caution against appeasement to powers that appear to be benevelant but in fact aren't. In plain language, instead of railing against Trump (who will be gone in a few years) we have to be careful of supporting and glorifying the wolves in sheeps clothing. Remember, Hitler was Time's man of the year in'33. And a social nationalist. 

[Jingthing]

Ok so Trump is a nut (i'm am no fan)..
 
Then it means that only nuts and idiots are good businessmen who can generate billions in business revenues through various incentives and ventures?
 
Can Merkel or Macron claim having generated millions through private business?
 
Who can explain?

Why is that relevant?

[observer90210]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Why is that relevant?

cannot say for relevance....just some simple questions looking for some simple answers...and free to anybody to think up the point themselves...

Edited July 5, 2017 by observer90210

[docshock13]

35 minutes ago, Meljames said:

It really isn't clear at all. Your rant is symptomatic of much of what American politics have devolved into. Frustration based on lack of power and a slipping influence.

Ok. Your post is equally unclear.  Who is frustrated? Who is lacking power? And whose influence is slipping? 

I suppose my "rant" came off as pro-Trump. Which I believe was neutral. I thought I addressed that in the first sentences. It was pro-American and pro-freedom and anti-sheep think. My "rant" was a caution based upon history about believing those in Europe who claim to have a solution and then asking the Americans and Brits (and Commonwealth Nations) to bail them out. That is all. 

[funandsuninbangkok]

40 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Europe cannot even defend itself. 

 

Trump is speaking truth to power. They need to raise their armies and face off the Russians. 

 

Why the hell should Amercans defend rich Europeans from poor Russians?

Europeans are "unnerved" because Trump is fighting for American interests. He's not like Obama , ready to rollover to get patted on his tummy. 

[Presto]

51 minutes ago, funandsuninbangkok said:

Europe cannot even defend itself. 

 

Trump is speaking truth to power. They need to raise their armies and face off the Russians. 

 

Why the hell should Amercans defend rich Europeans from poor Russians?

The world order is changing, and has been for quite a while. The leading role of the US? Maybe that started to erode when Bush and his clan of war criminals started a fraudulent war in Iraq, and forced allies to join in. If you're not with me, you're against me. Or maybe it was the financial crisis that originated in the US, and brought austerity and its effects to so many western countries. Trump is ready to repeat that trick. But generally speaking, that incompetent bumbling blowhard is certainly speeding up the process. And maybe that's not a bad thing. Who would want American values nowadays?

[Presto]

40 minutes ago, docshock13 said:

First, much respect to your father for defending the defenseless. As my fathers and grandfathers have. Second, I want to point out one thing: my sharp criticism of the endorsement of Merkel/Macron was not an endorsement of Trump. If you look at my original post I do not endorse Trump. Though, given history I caution against appeasement to powers that appear to be benevelant but in fact aren't. In plain language, instead of railing against Trump (who will be gone in a few years) we have to be careful of supporting and glorifying the wolves in sheeps clothing. Remember, Hitler was Time's man of the year in'33. And a social nationalist. 

The good thing is, most western european countries have a reasonably well functioning democracy. Ten years ago I was pessimistic about the direction things were going, now I'm not. Maybe thanks to the Brexit debacle, and the Trump spectacle.

[Becker]

When the French went against the established order they elected Macron. When the US did the same thing they elected the man-child - 'nuff said.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2017 by Becker

[Jingthing]

When the French went against the established order they elected Macron. When the US did the same thing they elected the man-child - 'nuff said.
 
 
 

Macron was a rational choice.

[Briggsy]

When Trump attends summits, he wants all other leaders to defer to him. He has zero interest in policy. He may also try to do a couple of billion-dollar deals for his companies on the side.

 

When real leaders attend summits, they are not overly concerned about childish games. They have strategic and policy goals. They are unlikely to try to enrich themselves.

 

What the European leaders need to do is to marry these two sets of priorities. Perhaps they could give Trump a throne or a knighthood and then just push through the policies they want.

 

If Trump is not deferred to, he acts petulantly. So, when Macron challenged him, Trump exited the Paris accord in revenge in line with his "Screw them back" philosophy. He is totally unconcerned about the interests of America.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Briggsy

[Thaidream]

The reason America is part of  NATO is a result of WWII which was fought in Europe.  As the Soviet Union emerged from the war and became a nuclear power- it was in America's national interest to station troops in Europe and back up the NATO countries. America wold rather fight the Russians in Europe than in America.  

 

The issue of Crimea is really a small issue to me. Crimea was once part of Russia and Russia annexed it to let Ukraine and the rest of the World know that it was drawing a line- that it was not going to allow Ukraine to be part of NATO  which brings NATO eyeball to eye ball with Russia. However, it did rattle Europe and America as part of Nato has responded just as Europe responded during the 9-11 attacks.

 

Trump and America do want better relations with Russia but this is going to be hindered by the Russia probe. Trump says its a non issue but all 17 American intelligence agencies say it is an issue. The NSA (National Security Agency) has evidence the Russians attacked the actual voting machines in several states. Trump cannot ignore these facts and there is no way he can allow Russia to continue to interfere in US elections or those of other countries. Trump must stop blaming the media for what he calls 'fake news' as I doubt all 17 Intelligence agencies and the NSA are being manipulated by anyone.

 

 

[Jack100]

Maggie's foes have changed a bit - It was the EU that   faced up to Starbucks , Google  et al and told them  to pay  - some -  tax .

Toothless Individual nations like the UK and Ireland just rolled over and cut their welfare services .

[Scott]

Off-topic post and reply removed.  

[farcanell]

17 hours ago, docshock13 said:

Say what you want about Trump. He is one man. 

If you are an American, you should be ashamed to align yourself with liberal, Marxist EuroTrash that the American (and Allied)  heroes liberated over 70 years ago. And for the record, I am not American. Though I wouldn't exist without American benevolence to my forebearers. If you feel disgraced by Trump (as an American) that is up to you. I also feel disgraced by my leader. Fortunately, that is our right (for the time being) and we can vote them out next election cycle.  If we are not careful, it may no longer be so. Careful where you tread. Your Marxist Utopia could end up a gulag (as has been illustrated in recent history). 

My entire family owes a debt to America and its people. 

More importantly, Canada has just rewarded a terrorist with $7.7 mil USD. Is that the kind of post-nationalist, PC world you want to live in? Grow up, "dude." 

Time to check yourself in for another round of electro shock treatment doc.

 

wow hey... American heros?..... and allies.... by which you must also include the heroic Russians, (whom I'm assuming your denigrating further down the pistol) rushing into a war zone unarmed, because they had very few weapons.. vs americas massive (slow) build up on safe soil, brought at the expense of British, Canadian, French, Australian etc lives, which effectively halted the westward German push.

 

american heros only helped out because they themselves were attacked, (Pearl Harbor) if not for that, they would have continued to take no part other than in the making of huge profits by their arms suppliers

 

And.... marxist utopia ending up in a gulag state.... what?... when?.... where?

 

Marx was a socialist concerned with the exploitation of workers.... gulags became full of these exploited workers, so philosophically, that's rather contradictory... and we should all be concerned with the exploitation of workers, as Marx was ( esp by the rich), don't you think ( here it's Burmese, Cambodians and Laotians being exploited, for example)

 

im assuming your Canadian, from your comments ( happy to be wrong), but maybe prior shocks have scrambled your brain box, confusing you as to wether your Canadian, American, French or a commonwealth citizen

 

the only curiosity I have about you rant is about the American benevolence to your forebears.... assuredly British subjects, if I'm right in assuming your Canadian... in which case (lmao).... a British subject benefiting from American largess of some form, may be deemed treasonous. (depending on the generation of the aforementioned forebears, of course)

 

oh... go ahead and provide a link to the payout to a terrorist, too ( sorry, that makes two items of curiosity) and I'm also sorry about all the assuming, but lack of clarity (etc) leaves little alternative in that respect