Teacher Candidates Demand English Requirements Be Reduced

[Kasset Tak]

1 hour ago, Machiavelli said:

So called "native English speakers" have had a go at teaching English in this country for over 50 years. Zilch results. I would say they are the problem! 

I went to one school where they have had foreign teachers working sins 1994 and still the Thais teaching English there can not even have an easy conversation in English, so what does that say about the Thai teachers and what does it say about us foreigners teaching here in Thailand?! For me it is just a proof that the Thai educational system has actually collapsed.
Another good example is where I work, teachers in animal science, plant science and agro-industry are better in using the English language than the Thais who are actually teaching English!?

[TheLobster]

Can anyone tell me where to find this Test of English for International Communications, or TOEIC?

 

I'd like to see it before I comment ............ 

[webfact]

Little sympathy for teachers’ English test gripes
By Wasamon Audjarint
The Nation

 

 

BANGKOK: -- STUDENTS’ quality will never exceed the quality of teachers, so experts say. If so, what will Thailand do if so many teacher applicants protest about English-test requirements?

 

Hundreds of soon-to-be educators cry “no, no” to the Office of Higher Education Commission (Ohec) requirement that candidates to “Teachers for Their Hometowns” score at least 400 out of 990 of the Test of English for International Communication (TOEIC), one of the standardised English tests. 

 

According to Ohec, if candidates do not want to take TOEIC, they can take TOEFL or IELTS or any other widely recognised English-competency tests. The minimum scores for the qualified candidates will be around the same benchmark. For example, TOEFL scores should not be lower than 40.

 

Although this requirement is not even half of the total score, people who look set to become teachers have complained that such scores are “Too high to achieve”. 

 

The “Teachers for Their Hometowns” project seeks to recruit final-year education students to fill in at local schools in their hometown.

 

Candidates in this project have planned to urge Ohec to lower minimum TOEIC scores to just 250.

 

On a Facebook page, candidates of the project have lamented how they have taken the TOEIC tests many times but still failed to achieve the minimum scores. This has caused them trouble, given that the test fees are relatively expensive and they must sit the exam in Bangkok. The most popular comments among the candidates is that: “You already require us to have GPA of at least 3.00 and pass the program’s exams. That should be enough proofs already” and “Please replace this TOEIC requirement with mere English training”.

 

 Sympathy is not what they gain, however. On social media, several Netizens’ comments show they feel these teacher hopefuls are pathetic. Many ask why these candidates do not strive harder to achieve better scores. “This isn’t how educators should be at all,” one comment said. “If their students use the same logic, they will demand them to deduct grading standards in classrooms as well”. 

 

“Even high school students can make it more than 400, meaning that they may outclass even their own teachers,” another comment said. 

 

OHEC Secretary General Supat Jampathong told The Nation that the requirement will remain the same. “This test is meant to select capable teachers into the educational system,” Supat said. “So it’s common that the test is made harder each year. English is also made compulsory by the Education Ministry.”

 

 

Ajaree Chamroonkitkajhon, a waiting-list candidate to the program, admitted that to get 400 for TOEIC is really difficult for her. Living in the deep-south Narathiwat, Ajaree needs to travel to the capital to sit the exam. Another trip will be needed as Ajaree has yet to achieve the scores. 

 

She doesn’t expect Ohec to adjust the standard. “My field is kindergarten teaching, I think that English is really necessary as a teacher to at least communicate” she said. “It’s my own challenge to pass it to become a decent teacher.”

 

While it should be compulsory for teachers to have English proficiency, the system can facilitate them to achieve it, suggested Attapol Anunthavorasakul, an education lecturer from Chulalongkorn University.

 

From managing English courses in local education centres to making an English-friendly environment on campuses, authorities can arrange to encourage teachers and education students to use English, Attapol said. 

 

“Most of all, learners have to engage themselves with English,” he said. “Classroom-based English may be sufficient to take exams but not enough to mobilise them in the real world.”

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/news/national/30320094

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-07-07

[Oziex1]

10 hours ago, trogers said:

Lowering the standard so that graduates of Pattaya, Phuket and Nana qualify?

I would suggest some of those you mention are some of the best English speakers

[carlyai]

@mok199 '.apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.'

Not criticizing you, but 'appenn', 'burgerrrr' etc are not English words, but Thai words. They might sound like English words pronounced wrongly, but they are Thai words. It's like the English language borrowed words from other languages, that are now English language words.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[futsukayoi]

11 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Lower quality English teachers required to teach English, am  I reading this upside down? LOL

 

I may be missing something here but the way I read this it is not talking about English teachers.  It is any teachers. 

[akampa]

English class on a field trip I asked the teacher how old were the children , she showed me her watch and said half past 4,enough said.

[mok199]

58 minutes ago, carlyai said:

@mok199 '.apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.'

Not criticizing you, but 'appenn', 'burgerrrr' etc are not English words, but Thai words. They might sound like English words pronounced wrongly, but they are Thai words. It's like the English language borrowed words from other languages, that are now English language words.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

...I see your point...apple I can live with..but please not my ''hamburger''....why is an ''R'' pronounced as ''L'',and an ''L'' pronounced as ''R'' as in lunch becomes ''RUNCH''.etc etc..I know one thing..''ahhhh'' and ''AHHHH'' are just sounds ,they are not words.and this way of ''agreeing and disagreeing'',is used by educated and professional alike..YES AND NO...so easy.....check BINN please

[SABloke]

Just now, mok199 said:

...I see your point...apple I can live with..but please not my ''hamburger''....why is an ''R'' pronounced as ''L'',and an ''L'' pronounced as ''R'' as in lunch becomes ''RUNCH''.etc etc..I know one thing..''ahhhh'' and ''AHHHH'' are just sounds ,they are not words.and this way of ''agreeing and disagreeing'',is used by educated and professional alike..YES AND NO...so easy.....check BINN please

It's the same reason a lot of foreign people pronounce Ngor Ngoo with an "N" sound so the say Nai instead of Ngai (It's just a physical limitation due to one's muscles not  being used to forming the words/letters).

[BB1958]

13 minutes ago, SABloke said:

It's the same reason a lot of foreign people pronounce Ngor Ngoo with an "N" sound so the say Nai instead of Ngai (It's just a physical limitation due to one's muscles not  being used to forming the words/letters).

I agree to a large extent, however we do have those sounds in English - siNG, briNG, thiNG, etc... just we never put "ng" sound at the front of a word.

[Echo Tango]

Bastardized American-English, eh? What makes old world "Classical English" so much better? Can you imagine Thai students trying to learn that stuffy, elitist version of English all day long? That's comical! Everyone wants to learn the streamlined and efficient version of English: American-English! :)

[DavisH]

9 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

Foreign parents with Thai children don't need to do anything at first except speak their own first language to their children. Watch TV with them, especially read to them etc. The children will easily become bilingual but they will need to put the work in to get their reading and writing skills up to scratch as they get older.

 

But for most Thai kids, there's really no need to start English as early as they do. Much better to let them expand and develop their own language first. As many here are pointing out, even that's not a given in Thailand. If you're struggling in your first language, then starting a second language too early is going to be damaging. There isn't any research to show that starting to learn a second language at the earliest possible age is beneficial. If they had qualified, effective teachers with proper resources, starting in secondary school would produce much better results than are achieved at the moment.  

Most of our students who come into P1 at my school already can communicate in English as they have had 3 years learning in English in kindergarten. They also need to learn Thai too as it is part of the curriculum. They may be slightly behind in Thai compared to regular program students but they do catch up. They are several years ahead of those students in English though. Children's brains develop rapidly in the early years and they can thus pick up languages much faster at that time. It get's progressively more difficult as the student gets older.

[BB1958]

2 minutes ago, Echo Tango said:

Bastardized American-English, eh? What makes old world "Classical English" so much better? Can you imagine Thai students trying to learn that stuffy, elitist version of English all day long? That's comical! Everyone wants to learn the streamlined and efficient version of English: American-English! :)

Your absolutely right, now go and get a glass of warder, and don't forget you have a docders appoindment on Sadurday. 

[DavisH]

Make their starting salary commensurate with their International test score. Starting salary higher for higher achieving students. Perhaps that will encourage higher quality students to apply to become teachers. Keep the dross out from the profession. 250 is pathetically low. 

[mok199]

if thai students spent time using English on weekends and practicing with friends at coffee shops etc..we would not be having this conversation..i have never ever ever seen thais using (practicing English) in public, and please don't tell me ''they are too shy''.they will never learn if they do not have the desire to learn and practice..is this ''thai laziness''....

[JAG]

Your absolutely right, now go and get a glass of warder, and don't forget you have a docders appoindment on Sadurday. 

yoh bro, doctor mans in the hood right man?

We stuffy old English teachers can't afford to get left behind now.

:)

[248900_1469958220]

12 hours ago, KhaoNiaw said:

I would challenge you to find a single piece of research that reaches that conclusion, especially in the case of English.

 

Thai teachers of English are actually the solution. I could introduce you to several who speak English very well, three with TOEIC scores over 850, and two with master's degrees from good UK universities. The problem is that teachers anything like this are few and far between. They are not targeted for recruitment and the pay and conditions are unlikely to attract this type of graduate who could make a better living and career doing something else. Until that changes they're stuck with the current situation. 

They are VERY few and far between, so much so that your point is virtually moot. I have worked in many govt and private schools here and MOST of the Thai teachers could not hold a conversation about anything other than likes/dislikes and food etc. Add to the mix a considerable batch of Filipinos......I know, I know SOME of them are ok. However, I recently undertook a course for obtaining my teachers licence here, run by a uni from said country. I got to see first hand their level of written English/comprehension of English. It wasn't pretty. Many of the young bouncy women are great for kindergarten but for higher levels its a real worry. 

 

 

[Echo Tango]

Your absolutely right, now go and get a glass of warder, and don't forget you have a docders appoindment on Sadurday. 

I think you meant to say: YOU'RE absolutely right. The rest of your sentence was gibberish and I didn't understand it.

[Echo Tango]

yoh bro, doctor mans in the hood right man?

We stuffy old English teachers can't afford to get left behind now.

:)

The homeboys in the ghettos of London speak no differently.

[YetAnother]

13 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

Christ, the current level is only a 400 score  TOEIC??!!    From a total of 990??  That is pretty well elementary or pre-intermediate 1 level.

 

And they want to reduce it to 250, which is beginner level?  

 

I thought it couldn't get any worse already, but obviously they prefer the very lowest common denominator.  

it is called 'clueless'

[LannaGuy]

I'm confused is this for teachers OF English or just general teachers?  if they want to teach English then 400 is TOO LOW if they are general teachers then why need English at all?   

[HooHaa]

Pass the initiative for a higher standard then roll it back using article 44. 

 

Simple really.

[Lupatria]

Well, if the "no fail" policy works for the students...

[fxe1200]

3 hours ago, carlyai said:

@mok199 '.apparently have been  pronouncing a few English words wrong for 60 years now..''apple'' is appenn..''burger'' is burgerrrrrrrr...''central''  is centrannn....to name a few.'

Not criticizing you, but 'appenn', 'burgerrrr' etc are not English words, but Thai words. They might sound like English words pronounced wrongly, but they are Thai words. It's like the English language borrowed words from other languages, that are now English language words.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk
 

...like the place we live in: " kindergarten".

[timewilltell]

13 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I am yet to meet a local Government school teacher who can actually speak good English, or a non farang student from a Government school that can either. Lowering the criteria is not going to improve the situation. The best teachers of any language are of course native speakers, but schools here are not prepared to either pay for them, or give the work permits. Thailand is not investing properly in their children's future, unlike Cambodia, where the kids even at 10, speak English well.

This is just not true.

Thailand does invest very heavily in education but given the corruption that runs through everything, most of the money is filtered off before it reaches expenditure on much of benefit to the kids. Add that to the mindset that English really doesn't matter and anything Thai is the only thing a human needs and you end up exactly as expected which is where Thai land's education is.

Singapore realised the importance of English a long time ago. It is not just being able to be understood by a large part of the trading civilised world but more importantly changes the way you think. Thai language is not suited to commerce or to law because it has always been centred around the basic needs of villagers and has just not developed sufficiently to be efficient in commerce. English (and French, German and Spanish) are languages that have developed around commerce and are much more specific in firm compared to Thai which centres around the more general form.  This rarely communicate specifically eg, Thai maybe - Where have you been? A. To buy something English - Where have you been? A. To the supermarket to get some eggs.

 

If you have lived here a while you will understand my point. Thais do not like to tell you much that is really to the point and think that way. They live their lives not early understanding much detail about anything. Maybe it is a good way to live but it is counterproductive in business and law.

[stephehr]

When Thai teachers teach English they teach it in Thai, and a lot of Pilipino teachers teach most of the  English lesson in Thai. 

[thequietman]

9 hours ago, Machiavelli said:

So called "native English speakers" have had a go at teaching English in this country for over 50 years. Zilch results. I would say they are the problem! 

Quite untrue. Get into the system and you will find out why. From the outside, you have no way of knowing the nonsense and red tape that occurs.

[1SteveC]

14 hours ago, speedtripler said:

Lower quality English teachers required to teach English, am  I reading this upside down? LOL

 

Yes, the test is for ALL Thai teaching candidates - not just Thai English teachers = A Thai language teacher needs to pass an English test to get a job !

[darren84310]

14 hours ago, Orton Rd said:

It's mostly grammar that English natives could not pass so they have a point, you can read and speak English very well and still fail this test

Yeah but 400 is not a high score, the problem with TOEIC is that there isn't a speaking element to the test, which makes it an almost complete waste of time.

[remobb]

I agree with them in principal. Why should a Thai teacher teaching Thai subjects have the ability to speak, read, write English? Do teachers in England for example need to pass a test in Hindi?

If they want Thai teachers to teach or speak in English then it should be a specialist subject and the teachers should be rewarded for their extra ability.

Let Thai teachers teach Thai in Thai.

However, if a teacher wants to earn more then they could study English and as I said be rewarded for doing so.

 

My opinion.