Trump's son met Russian lawyer after promise of information on Clinton - NY Times

[craigt3365]

25 minutes ago, CutiePi said:

The US has done it many times...making sure the "right" party won an election (from their point of view. Other countries do the same...the funny thing is seeing the liberal media and the Democrat Party feign shock and horror at it (when their "right" candidate didn't win). Tell you what, in 2020, I'll donate a copy of Kapersky Security Suite to the DNC and a copy of Internet Security For Dummies to the Democrat nominee's campaign...should solve the problem.

But this topic isn't about the US doing it.  Don't deflect, please.

 

13 minutes ago, CutiePi said:

I've said several things but you refuse to hear them...like oppo-research is SOP in political campaigns.

Talking to a hostile foreign country is not SOP.  Thus, the big reaction it's getting.  And it's all tied into a bunch of other stuff, which is also all under investigation. 

[LannaGuy]

12 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

I resided in the USA for most of my life.  I have a pretty good handle on how people think there.

 

For example, if you are leading an MLM rah rah meeting, or are a football coach, you are expected to speak in absolutes re; projections.  That's what Trump does, and he's frustrated that it's only working on his die-hard fan base.

 

At an MLM meeting, you won't hear the speaker saying something like, "I hope we all go out and sign up new members and sell a lot of product"  That would be considered weak and ineffectual.

No, the speaker is expected to shout at her minions;  "We are going to be successful!  We are going to sell thousands of widgets and everybody in this room is going to get very rich!"  

 

Similarly, a high school football coach is not going to say to his players, "Ok boys, go out there and play as best you can. If we play better than the other team, we're going to win, and we will deserve to win."

 

No, he's going to say, "Kill the other team! We're going to win win win! We're better than they are!"  (I actually heard a h.s. coach saying that to his team during a half time break).

 

When Trump was young, he was v. heavily influenced by W. Clement Stone who wrote about 'positive mental attitude'.  Stone also pioneered Fuller Brush Company.  The basis for Stone's (and Trump's) philosophy is; don't dwell on reality. Instead, project great monetary success.  If you keep repeating success as if it's already happened, then it will happen. 

 

Trump is taking that philosophy to other realms.  He keeps repeating lies, in the hope his lies will become reality.  For his fan base, it's working.  For reasonable people with perspective, roughly 3/4 of American voters, it's not.

 

 

 

I agree with much of this, but still opine that the media are out to 'get him', but the 

 

For reasonable people with perspective, roughly 3/4 of American voters

 

Is pure ad hominem 

[CutiePi]

3 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

You don't seem to be able to understand. 

Oppo-research is one thing.

Working knowingly with a foreign nation to get that information is quite another. 

I don't think it is...and even liberals like Harvard law professor Alan Derchowitz and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Tobin (as well as many others) have said so far they see nothing criminal in this matter.

 

Maybe time to move on to the next Resistence scandal de jour.

[ilostmypassword]

3 minutes ago, CutiePi said:

I don't think it is...and even liberals like Harvard law professor Alan Derchowitz and CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Tobin (as well as many others) have said so far they see nothing criminal in this matter.

 

Maybe time to move on to the next Resistence scandal de jour.

First of all. have Dershowitz or Tobin called for the investigation to be halted?  

Second, even if no crime is unearthed, since when is it okay for US citizens to collaborate with a foreign power - a hostile foreign power at that - in the matter of elections? Would it be okay for the Trump administration to secretly collaborate with the Russians to use dirt against congresspeople to get laws passed? 

 

[iReason]

If Republicans Love Their Country, When Will They Show It?

 

"These are the words that will resonate for quite a while, typed just 17 minutes after Don Jr. was told the Clinton dirt was coming from the Kremlin: “If it’s what you say I love it.”

 

"This is not about being dumb. It’s not about being ruthless. It’s not about oppo research. It’s not even about dirty tricks."

 

"This is about a very basic level of patriotism"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/if-republicans-love-their-country-when-will-they-show-it.html

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by iReason

[Thakkar]

4 minutes ago, iReason said:

If Republicans Love Their Country, When Will They Show It?

 

"These are the words that will resonate for quite a while, typed just 17 minutes after Don Jr. was told the Clinton dirt was coming from the Kremlin: “If it’s what you say I love it.”

 

"This is not about being dumb. It’s not about being ruthless. It’s not about oppo research. It’s not even about dirty tricks."

 

"This is about a very basic level of patriotism"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/if-republicans-love-their-country-when-will-they-show-it.html

 

 

 

No one can credibly take Republican declarations of patriotism seriously after they continue to delay and stymie investigations into Russian interference in US elections.

 

No one can credibly take any Republican moralizing seriously when they continued to support Trump after the release of the Access Hollywood tape.

 

No one can credibly take Republican glorification of the US constitution seriously as they ignore PRESIDENT Trump's incessant attacks on the Third Estate.

 

T

[iReason]

From the National Review:

 

There Is Now Evidence That Senior Trump Officials Attempted to Collude With Russia 
Donald Trump Jr.’s e-mails are damning. (sub-title)
 

"If you had told me last week that there existed an e-mail chain where a Trump contact explicitly tried to set up a meeting between a purported Russian official and the Trump senior team to facilitate official Russian efforts to beat Clinton, I’d have thought you’d been spending too much time in the deranged corners of Twitter."

 

"Going further, at long last we can now put to bed the notion that the Russia investigation is little more than frivolous partisan harassment, and it casts in an entirely different light the president’s fury and frustration at its continued progress."
 

"The Russian investigation isn’t a witch hunt anymore, if it ever was. It’s a national necessity."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia

 

 

 

"But you don’t need a lawyer to see that the Trump defense —

collusion as a desperate Democratic fiction designed to explain away a lost election — is now officially dead."

-Charles Krauthammer  

Fox News contributor

http://www.pantagraph.com/opinion/columnists/krauthammer-bungled-collusion-is-still-collusion/article_525f211c-a0ad-505a-b5d7-c5faef3ae3c9.html

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by iReason

[CutiePi]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

First of all. have Dershowitz or Tobin called for the investigation to be halted?  

Second, even if no crime is unearthed, since when is it okay for US citizens to collaborate with a foreign power - a hostile foreign power at that - in the matter of elections? Would it be okay for the Trump administration to secretly collaborate with the Russians to use dirt against congresspeople to get laws passed? 

 

I dont think most Americans share many (any?) of your underlying assumptions and premises...probably why Trump is President.

Edited July 18, 2017 by CutiePi

[CutiePi]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

If Republicans Love Their Country, When Will They Show It?

 

"These are the words that will resonate for quite a while, typed just 17 minutes after Don Jr. was told the Clinton dirt was coming from the Kremlin: “If it’s what you say I love it.”

 

"This is not about being dumb. It’s not about being ruthless. It’s not about oppo research. It’s not even about dirty tricks."

 

"This is about a very basic level of patriotism"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/if-republicans-love-their-country-when-will-they-show-it.html

 

 

Will Democrat and liberal/progressive voters ever get out of their coastal echo chambers and news silos? NY Magazine...really? As to your headline,  they already did by not voting for Hillary Clinton.

[mike324]

26 minutes ago, CutiePi said:

Will Democrat and liberal/progressive voters ever get out of their coastal echo chambers and news silos? NY Magazine...really? As to your headline,  they already did by not voting for Hillary Clinton.

 

Care to share a news media that you feel is less bias that we can use to quote on then?

[iReason]

1 hour ago, CutiePi said:

Will Democrat and liberal/progressive voters ever get out of their coastal echo chambers and news silos?

NY Magazine...really?

 

The echoes from the rabid marginalizing Trumpeteers continue... 

 

A stellar example of a poster who dives head first into a thread unaware of, or usually ignoring other posts.

 

In this case, a post that was there before your rant above:

See post #187 to broaden your horizons.

On your flat earth...

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by iReason

[CutiePi]

2 hours ago, mike324 said:

 

Care to share a news media that you feel is less bias that we can use to quote on then?

When I start seeing hysterical Trump Resistance stories in the Decatur Times and the Peoria News I'll start to worry about the health of the Trump presidency. Daily pro-Democrat pieces in the coastal media are to be expected. 

[Jingthing]

You should be worried that they're not. Who knew the USA would fall to fascism so easily.

[CutiePi]

4 hours ago, iReason said:

From the National Review:

 

There Is Now Evidence That Senior Trump Officials Attempted to Collude With Russia 
Donald Trump Jr.’s e-mails are damning. (sub-title)
 

"If you had told me last week that there existed an e-mail chain where a Trump contact explicitly tried to set up a meeting between a purported Russian official and the Trump senior team to facilitate official Russian efforts to beat Clinton, I’d have thought you’d been spending too much time in the deranged corners of Twitter."

 

"Going further, at long last we can now put to bed the notion that the Russia investigation is little more than frivolous partisan harassment, and it casts in an entirely different light the president’s fury and frustration at its continued progress."
 

"The Russian investigation isn’t a witch hunt anymore, if it ever was. It’s a national necessity."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/449376/donald-trump-jr-e-mails-proof-trump-campaign-attempted-collusion-russia

 

 

 

"But you don’t need a lawyer to see that the Trump defense —

collusion as a desperate Democratic fiction designed to explain away a lost election — is now officially dead."

-Charles Krauthammer  

Fox News contributor

http://www.pantagraph.com/opinion/columnists/krauthammer-bungled-collusion-is-still-collusion/article_525f211c-a0ad-505a-b5d7-c5faef3ae3c9.html

 

 

From the magazine that devoted an ENTIRE pre-election issue to the "never Trumpers" in the Republican Party...so it's not suprising they're leading the right-flank of the Resistance. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by CutiePi

[Jingthing]

What is really surprising is that any patriotic American of any party still supports the sleazeball con man clown President.

[CutiePi]

3 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What is really surprising is that any patriotic American of any party still supports the sleazeball con man clown President.

I would have thought you would be a supporter; after all, between President Clinton, President Obama, candidate Clinton, and candidate Trump, our current president was the first to support marriage equality. But alas he's a Republican therefore the hate.

[Jingthing]

I would have thought you would be a supporter; after all, between President Clinton, President Obama, candidate Clinton, and candidate Trump, our current president was the first to support marriage equality. But alas he's a Republican therefore the hate.

He's appointed anti gay extremists to the Supreme Court nomination and key government positions. His VP is is the most explicitly anti gay VP in history. Who do you think you're fooling trying to paint trump as pro gay civil rights? Do you think gay people are all morons?

 

OK some are such as that super trumpist pedo troll Milo but he's a freak.

 

 

[Andaman Al]

7 hours ago, PattayaJames said:

Unless your are HRC then you just set up your own email server with total disregard for security.

You mean like Colin Powell admitted to doing and many many Governer's and congressmen on both sides of the partisan line. How do you defend the 5 million emails deleted from White House servers by the Bush administration after the war when it was/is illegal to delete even one? Do you think any politician understands how email/internet security works? Look at Trump, he still uses his smart phone and will not give it up. I guarantee 100% that the smart phone has been hacked or a trojan put in there and it is harvesting data of many kinds from Trumps phone. 100% guaranteed.

[CutiePi]

43 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He's appointed anti gay extremists to the Supreme Court nomination and key government positions. His VP is is the most explicitly anti gay VP in history. Who do you think you're fooling trying to paint trump as pro gay civil rights? Do you think gay people are all morons?

 

OK some are such as that super trumpist pedo troll Milo but he's a freak.

 

 

Re the Supreme Court, you know this how...there have been no "gay rights" cases decided since Gorsuch was elevated to the Court.

 

Re the other government appointments...I'm sure he's also appointed gay rights supporters and (gasp) maybe even some actual gay people as well. (Again, these people being Republicans means they don't count...the only acceptable gays being liberal/progressive and Democrat ones.)

 

The VP is just that and I would suspect there have been a number of anti-gay vice-presidents in history (and dare I say some gays ones too) but I doubt we have any way to rate them.

 

No, just one.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by CutiePi

[Jingthing]

Re the Supreme Court, you know this how...there have been no "gay rights" cases decided since Gorsuch was elevated to the Court.   Re the other government appointments...I'm sure he's also appointed gay rights supporters and (gasp) maybe even some actual gay people as well. (Again, these people being Republicans means they don't count...the only acceptable gays being liberal/progressive and Democrat ones.)

 

The VP is just that and I would suspect there have been a number of anti-gay vice-presidents in history (and dare I say some gays ones too) but I doubt we have any way to rate them.

 

No, just one.

 

 

 

 

You're misinformed. Gordsuch already wrote a vile anti gay rights opinion in a decision. Try to sell your blatant distortions to someone else. Really please do not bother me anymore with your attempts at propaganda.  Bad enough so many antigay bigots have so much power in the trump regime but to try to paint the trump regime as pro gay rights is downright Orwellian.

 

 

 

 

[Andaman Al]

8 hours ago, CutiePi said:

What actions...doing stuff to uphold Western civilization are not threats to anyone.

 

I don't see any Swampies in the cabinet...only successful people from the private sector.

Upholding Western Civilisation is not invading Georgia or invading Ukraine and taking back Crimea. Is up holding Western Civilisation providing arms to Iran (Americans always quote that) and Hezbulla? Is it supporting Assad who the West wants out? The cold war is over in the format it was but that does not mean that the adversarial polices of Russia against the US and the West do not exist. If there was an easy way to take back all the countries of the former USSR tomorrow then Putin would do it in a heart beat. It is funny you support Russia.

 

 

8 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

This but you won't get the gang of four on here to even entertain your obvious common sense. This is ALL political and truth is the first to die in political war. I was really hoping for some reconciliation with Russia and peace but the "but..but..but..it's the Russians" mob love conspiracy more.  

Truth is the first to die, so who's version of truth are you sticking to? The west or Russia? If they both lie who's lies will you support? The west or Russia? It seems your mind is made up and it does not sit well for a westerner.

 

 

8 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

Of course he did that part is indisputable as would I, HC, or anyone on the campaign trail. HC's team had a CNN analyst handing them the questions before a debate which, in my view, is far more serious 'shenanigans'. Politics is a dirty business. Was it wise to meet?  probably not, but not for ethical reasons, but knowing the Dems would go bananas with conspiracy theories as has happened.  Much Ado about Nothing.

You or anyone else on the campaign trail (inc HRC) did not do it. Donald Trump and his sycophants on fox have said exactly what you said, yet many many congressmen and Senators including many Republicans said 'no they would never have done it' - I buy into their stories. As for Trump saying "that's politics' one of the defences of his ineptitude so far used by his supporters has been 'he is not a politician' 'he is a businessman and does not know about politics', yet now he claims to be a politician. You can't have your cake and eat it!! This is NOT much ado about nothing unless you stick your head in the sand and hope things will be ok when you have the balls to resurface.

 

8 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

and the US never has a 'preference' for who they want elected in other countries?   no meddling over the years?  that's good to know... 

I sad and dismal defence. Defending the wrongs of others by the alleged wrongs of others. Why on earth do we put people in jail for murder? But Mr Jones down the road murdered someone and got off with manslaughter, why can't I? What the US has done around the globe is despicable and people should have been held to account, but when there is CLEAR evidence that the Russians did the same, then they should be held to account, and not as you imply given a free pass. No matter how cuddly big bears look, if they are starving they will eat you in a heartbeat. Why do you think we talk of the great Russian Bear?

[CutiePi]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You're misinformed. Gordsuch already wrote a vile anti gay rights opinion in a decision. Try to sell your blatant distortions to someone else. Really please do not bother me anymore with your attempts at propaganda.

 

 

 

It seems to me you're the one living in a projected reality distortion field, what with all the spouting on about America being a facist dictatorship. I guess by your lights China, Cuba, N. Korea, et al. are flourishing democracies.

Edited July 18, 2017 by CutiePi

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, Thakkar said:

No one can credibly take Republican declarations of patriotism seriously after they continue to delay and stymie investigations into Russian interference in US elections.

No one can credibly take any Republican moralizing seriously when they continued to support Trump after the release of the Access Hollywood tape.

No one can credibly take Republican glorification of the US constitution seriously as they ignore PRESIDENT Trump's incessant attacks on the Third Estate. T

Generally speaking, the Dem Party has traditionally been in favor of things like unions, decent minimum wage, acceptance of gays, keeping the environment clean, etc.

 

The GOP, for its part,  has generally been dragging-its-feet, conservative, 'don't rock the boat', favor biggest businesses, bail-outs for Wall Street, coddle rich guys (trickle down theory), and stalwart patriotism.

 

Most of that still holds true, except the patriotism issue.  Now, Republicans are not only treading on the Constitution, they're turning their gaze away from seeing adversarial country tangibly aiding their party's politicians.  Many conclusions can be surmised, but perhaps most glaring:   For Republicans, patriotism and the Constitution are important, but not as important as blind fidelity to their party's leader.  

 

[CutiePi]

8 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Upholding Western Civilisation is not invading Georgia or invading Ukraine and taking back Crimea. Is up holding Western Civilisation providing arms to Iran (Americans always quote that) and Hezbulla? Is it supporting Assad who the West wants out? The cold war is over in the format it was but that does not mean that the adversarial polices of Russia against the US and the West do not exist. If there was an easy way to take back all the countries of the former USSR tomorrow then Putin would do it in a heart beat. It is funny you support Russia.

Maybe not your notion of "Western Civilization" but there are different ideas of what this constitutes such a civilization. 

[PattayaJames]

30 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

How do you defend the 5 million emails deleted from White House servers by the Bush administration after the war when it was/is illegal to delete even one?

I don't.

30 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Do you think any politician understands how email/internet security works?

I think as most people do, they have a basic understanding.

 

30 minutes ago, Andaman Al said:

Look at Trump, he still uses his smart phone and will not give it up. I guarantee 100% that the smart phone has been hacked or a trojan put in there and it is harvesting data of many kinds from Trumps phone. 100% guaranteed.

100%, as with almost everything in your mind.

I would of hoped, that some digital security assistance would be available to him.

[Jingthing]

25 minutes ago, CutiePi said:

It seems to me you're the one living in a projected reality distortion field, what with all the spouting on about America being a facist dictatorship. I guess by your lights China, Cuba, N. Korea, et al. are flourishing democracies.

You think only communist regimes are authoritarian? Wow. 

Yes the USA is a democracy. A deeply FLAWED one and the election of the clown demagogue trump revealed even more flaws and vulnerabilities. 

[iReason]

No, Donald Trump Jr. Doesn’t Have a First Amendment Right to Get Freebies From the Russians

 

The court said:

"It is fundamental to the definition of our national political community that foreign citizens do not have a constitutional right to participate in, and thus may be excluded from, activities of democratic self-government." 

 

"It follows, therefore, that the United States has a compelling interest for purposes of First Amendment analysis in limiting the participation of foreign citizens in activities of American democratic self-government, and in thereby preventing foreign influence over the U.S. political process."

 

"All of which suggests that other judges would follow suit if presented with the Trump Tower scenario: a meeting where no actual money may have changed hands, but where something more nefarious, coordinated, and potentially criminal may have taken place"

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/07/knocking-down-best-argument-in-defense-of-trump-jr.html

 

See ruling here:

https://www.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/Bluman_v_Federal_Election_Commission_Civil_No_101766_BMK_RMURMC_2?1500078125

 

The above was written by U.S. Circuit Judge Brett Kavanaugh,

a conservative who the White House has been looking at for the Supreme Court.

 

The high court, didn’t bother hearing an appeal over the case.

It affirmed the ruling summarily with no dissenting opinions.

 

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by iReason

[Scott]

A few off-topic comments and replies have been removed.   Please stay on topic.  

[Andaman Al]

4 hours ago, PattayaJames said:

 

I would of hoped, that some digital security assistance would be available to him.

Not on smart phones.

 

Pre loaded in to each smart phone are about 4000 route certificates that are there because the owners pay for them to be there. They harvest information unbeknown to 99% of people. Do you have a free flash light app? check how big it is some can be 30 mb. it takes a program about 30kb to turn your flash light on. What is the rest? Well part of it is harvesting data and when you change phones and just transfer contacts and not apps the nefarious stuff goes along with the contacts. Smart phones are not secure and cannot be secure unless they are totally isolated from access to the internet/blue tooth. Even encryption apps you can load in are useless when you have trojans that can turn on your mic and earpiece, then you hear all the discussion before and after it is encrypted via mic and earpiece.

 

I have access  to a completely secure mobile system and a particular Government wanted to purchase it for politicians, until the secret service stepped in and said sorry we can't buy it, as they didn't want their politicians having secure phones as they want to see what they are up to. Smart phones are a security disaster. 

[pegman]

It's always seemed to me that when Trump goes down it will be because the investigators followed the money. The latest bares that out.

 

http://www.palmerreport.com/politics/ike-donald-trump-meeting-russian-money-laundering-irakly-kaveladze/3923/