The 20'00 Bht enigma

[swissie]

Theoretically:

After having been confronted with the 20'000 Bht issue at the Airport (only carrying the amount in hard currency, or my nose does not please the Immi-Officer on duty, for example) can an arriving tourist declare, that under these circumstances, he is no longer interested in spending his holiday in Thailand. (heading back to the "Transit-Aerea", buying an outbound flight-ticket right there and then?)
Thx & cheers.

[tonray]

I think you are directed to the carrier that brought you and you will be sent on the next flight back to where your embarked from.

[007 RED]

10 hours ago, tonray said:

I think you are directed to the carrier that brought you and you will be sent on the next flight back to where your embarked from.

I think you will find that once you reach the arrivals immigration desk there is no turning back.  You will need to clear immigration and customs and go to the departure level to arrange a flight.  You may be able to persuade the airline which brought you to Thailand to change your return flight, but that will no doubt cost you extra.

If for some reason the IO decides to refuse you entry, then depending upon the nature of the refusal one of two things will happen once you have been escorted to ‘holding’ area.

If the refusal is based for example on fake passport, visa etc. which the airline that transported you to Thailand should have picked up at your point of departure, then immigration will instruct that airline to return you to your point of departure on the next available flight. The airline will have to bear the cost of transporting you and they will also face a heavy fine.

If the refusal is based for example on lack of funds to support your stay (which is somewhat  topical at the moment), then you will be allowed to arrange a flight to any destination outside Thailand at your own expense. Immigration will also charge you for ‘board and lodgings' whilst you are in the ‘holding’ area.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, 007 RED said:

I think you will find that once you reach the arrivals immigration desk there is no turning back.  You will need to clear immigration and customs and go to the departure level to arrange a flight.  You may be able to persuade the airline which brought you to Thailand to change your return flight, but that will no doubt cost you extra.

If for some reason the IO decides to refuse you entry, then depending upon the nature of the refusal one of two things will happen once you have been escorted to ‘holding’ area.

If the refusal is based for example on fake passport, visa etc. which the airline that transported you to Thailand should have picked up at your point of departure, then immigration will instruct that airline to return you to your point of departure on the next available flight. The airline will have to bear the cost of transporting you and they will also face a heavy fine.

If the refusal is based for example on lack of funds to support your stay (which is somewhat  topical at the moment), then you will be allowed to arrange a flight to any destination outside Thailand at your own expense. Immigration will also charge you for ‘board and lodgings' whilst you are in the ‘holding’ area.

Agreed on all, except the part about where you get to fly-to, when "lack of funds" or "intending to work" is cited as a reason for denial of entry.  Recently, everyone has been sent "back" where they came from.  There was at least one report, awhile back, where the person who was denied-entry was not even permitted to go back where they came from, and were "force-sent" back to their passport-country. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by JackThompson

[moe666]

The OP seems to be over reacting

[007 RED]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

.......  Recently, everyone has been sent "back" where they came from.  There was at least one report, awhile back, where the person who was denied-entry was not even permitted to go back where they came from, and were "force-sent" back to their passport-country. 

I agree that in the two recent cases of entry refusal at BKK the individuals concerned returned to where they had come from, but that may have been their choice.

My understanding is that in the case of a refused entry (as distinct from deportation) the individual can decide where they want to go and they need to make the arrangements and bear the cost. 

Consider the following scenario:  If I have just flown into BKK from China, where I originally entered on a single entry tourist visa.  I am refused entry to Thailand for whatever reason.  The IO says I must go back to China.  I doubt very much that the airline will accept me for travel because my original single entry visa has been used and most certainly the Chinese authorities will allow me back in the country without a new visa which I cannot obtain whilst I'm in the 'holding area' at the airport.

It is only when an individual has been admitted to the country and subsequently being deported that immigration can/will specify where the individual is sent to which is normally to the country which issued their passport.

I’ve endeavored to find regulations, but to no avail, so happy to be (gently) corrected.

[perthperson]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

where the person who was denied-entry was not even permitted to go back where they came from

 

Some countries refuse to allow entry to those with a "refused entry" stamp in their passport 

[BritTim]

6 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

It is only when an individual has been admitted to the country and subsequently being deported that immigration can/will specify where the individual is sent to which is normally to the country which issued their passport.

I’ve endeavored to find regulations, but to no avail, so happy to be (gently) corrected.

My understanding is that, when someone is deported, they can go to any other country that will accept them. Unfortunately, other countries and airlines will not accept you. A country for which you have citizenship is obliged to accept you and, similarly, under international law, the national airline must carry you. Thus, being forced to go to your home country is not a decision of Thai immigration, but a function of other countries' refusal to accept you.

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, BritTim said:

My understanding is that, when someone is deported, they can go to any other country that will accept them. Unfortunately, other countries and airlines will not accept you. A country for which you have citizenship is obliged to accept you and, similarly, under international law, the national airline must carry you. Thus, being forced to go to your home country is not a decision of Thai immigration, but a function of other countries' refusal to accept you.

I am not entirely convinced that is 100% correct, quite a number of years ago an acquaintance was deported and immigration / police absolutely insisted that the only country they would release him to travel to was his home country, in his case UK, I know because I loaned him the cash for the ticket and never got it back and never will, as the poor chap died of a stroke in Cambodia a couple of years later!! (he was banned from entering Thailand for life, long story why, but involved a sordid article about his establishment that was published in the News of the World that upset those in power big style!!!)

[perthperson]

Just now, Mattd said:

My understanding is that, when someone is deported

When a person is deported it is from within the country and usually the result of immigration infractions or outright criminality. Such people are required to buy tickets to their country of origin. 

 

A refusal of entry does not involve deportation and could result in individuals being returned to their point of departure, which might not be their home country. 

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I am not entirely convinced that is 100% correct, quite a number of years ago an acquaintance was deported and immigration / police absolutely insisted that the only country they would release him to travel to was his home country, in his case UK,

I thinks it depends upon the reason a person is being deported. If he was blacklisted for something then that could be the reason for the deportation to the UK.

For something like an overstay you could likely go wherever you wanted to.

[Mattd]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

When a person is deported it is from within the country and usually the result of immigration infractions or outright criminality. Such people are required to buy tickets to their country of origin. 

 

I think I said the first part, not sure where you picked your quote up from?

[Mattd]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I thinks it depends upon the reason a person is being deported. If he was blacklisted for something then that could be the reason for the deportation to the UK.

For something like an overstay you could likely go wherever you wanted to.

Possible, but debatable, especially for overstay involving a blacklist, actually that is exactly what he was deported for eventually, like I said, it was a long drawn out affair!

 

It is fair to say there is big difference to being kicked out and being refused entry.

[perthperson]

6 minutes ago, Mattd said:

I think I said the first part, not sure where you picked your quote up from?

Sorry if I have, inadvertently, repeated something you said. There are no "quotes" or plagiarism associated with my post. 

 

Suggest you chill out. 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, perthperson said:

Sorry if I have, inadvertently, repeated something you said. There are no "quotes" or plagiarism associated with my post. 

 

It appears you quoted part of the quote in his post by accident.

28 minutes ago, BritTim said:

My understanding is that, when someone is deported,

 

[Mattd]

8 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Sorry if I have, inadvertently, repeated something you said. There are no "quotes" or plagiarism associated with my post. 

 

Suggest you chill out. 

No worries, super chilled here  

[YetAnother]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Agreed on all, except the part about where you get to fly-to, when "lack of funds" or "intending to work" is cited as a reason for denial of entry.  Recently, everyone has been sent "back" where they came from.  There was at least one report, awhile back, where the person who was denied-entry was not even permitted to go back where they came from, and were "force-sent" back to their passport-country. 

Oooh, That sounds ugly

Was just thinking that one of the Japan or Taiwan hops that the Americans have to make would only send them back that far;

Is the whole way back even practical? Basically travel agenting a person halfway across the world on multiple Airlines?

[darrendsd]

7 hours ago, 007 RED said:

I think you will find that once you reach the arrivals immigration desk there is no turning back.  You will need to clear immigration and customs and go to the departure level to arrange a flight.  You may be able to persuade the airline which brought you to Thailand to change your return flight, but that will no doubt cost you extra.

If for some reason the IO decides to refuse you entry, then depending upon the nature of the refusal one of two things will happen once you have been escorted to ‘holding’ area.

If the refusal is based for example on fake passport, visa etc. which the airline that transported you to Thailand should have picked up at your point of departure, then immigration will instruct that airline to return you to your point of departure on the next available flight. The airline will have to bear the cost of transporting you and they will also face a heavy fine.

If the refusal is based for example on lack of funds to support your stay (which is somewhat  topical at the moment), then you will be allowed to arrange a flight to any destination outside Thailand at your own expense. Immigration will also charge you for ‘board and lodgings' whilst you are in the ‘holding’ area.

 

I very much doubt that someone who tried to enter on a fake PP or visa would just be allowed to fly back out again, do you really think that would happen?  they would be arrested

[perthperson]

4 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

I very much doubt that someone who tried to enter on a fake PP or visa would just be allowed to fly back out again, do you really think that would happen?  they would be arrested

Yep !  A case in Phuket very recently ........ two villains were caught with fake PPs --- They are now being accommodated in the jail.

[bkkcanuck8]

Quote

After having been confronted with the 20'000 Bht issue at the Airport (only carrying the amount in hard currency, or my nose does not please the Immi-Officer on duty, for example) can an arriving tourist declare, that under these circumstances, he is no longer interested in spending his holiday in Thailand. (heading back to the "Transit-Aerea", buying an outbound flight-ticket right there and then?)
Thx & cheers.

Once you approach immigration - they would not be doing their job if they allowed you just to turn around and go back to the Transit-Area....  They might conceivably allow it if you were brain damaged and you were able to show them a boarding pass....  but a ticket is not a boarding pass.   Once you reach immigration they have really two options, let you in ... or detain you....  and by detaining you (i.e. rejecting you entry) .... you will likely have to buy a ticket back to the country of your passport on an airline that either has a direct connect or handles the connections properly.  After you get rejected by one country, they get worried that it becomes like a contagious flu...

Hysteria will just get you into trouble. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by bkkcanuck8

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Once you approach immigration - they would not be doing their job if they allowed you just to turn around and go back to the Transit-Area....  They might conceivably allow it if you were brain damaged and you were able to show them a boarding pass....  but a ticket is not a boarding pass.   Once you reach immigration they have really two options, let you in ... or detain you....  and by detaining you (i.e. rejecting you entry) .... you will likely have to buy a ticket back to the country of your passport on an airline that either has a direct connect or handles the connections properly.  After you get rejected by one country, they get worried that it becomes like a contagious flu...

Hysteria will just get you into trouble. 

Except for the one case I am aware of, the rejected-entries (not criminal cases like forged-passport - just 'not enough cash' or what-not) all went back to the last place they stamped out of - so Laos, Malaysia, etc.  Unfortunately for the one fellow who flew from the States - it was all the way back there.  I think the IO could, however, choose to send you to your passport country, if they were so inclined - but as that is not happening (and I think some of them would enjoy doing that), I would guess it is policy to send 'em back to the last passport-stamp. 

 

OTOH, if that was Myanmar, and you didn't have a visa to enter Myanmar?  Maybe they cancel your exit in Myanmar and let you back in - like Laos, Cambodia, and Malaysia?  I would not recommend trying to find out.  I knew someone who got a visa in Yangoon, then flew to Vientiane, and entered on the bridge - just to avoid finding out what might happen.

[Ulic]

How times have changed. A couple of years ago I was flying to Manila through Bangkok

and had to clear customs pick up my bags and check in again. As I was clearing customs

the immigration officer asked how long I was staying. I told him my plan and I would be

staying just an hour or so and be on my way. He spent 7-8 minutes trying to talk me out

of flying to the Philippines and to just stay in Thailand. Prettier women, great food, a fun time

I would have if I stayed. He even called a buddy over to help with the sales pitch. I did tell

him I would be back in a couple of months. All good. Now they seem to be keeping people

out on the slightest suspicion of working I guess. I had many triple entry tourist visas

in my passport as well so while I was not working It might have appeared I was to some.

[007 RED]

15 hours ago, darrendsd said:

 

I very much doubt that someone who tried to enter on a fake PP or visa would just be allowed to fly back out again, do you really think that would happen?  they would be arrested

Regarding document irregularities discovered by immigration on arrival at the airport.  If you were the IO you have a number of options available to you:

 

Option 1:  Turn a blind eye and let the person enter the country.

Option 2:  Arrested the person, have him/her detained for several months pending a Court hearing, a Court hearing, jailed for whatever time and then arranging deportation once released from jail. 

Option 3:  Because the airline should have checked the documentation before accepting the passenger for travel, they are legally responsible for conveying him/her back to the point of embarkation on the next available flight.  The airline bears the cost of repatriation plus a substantial fine.

 

Option 1 ... Extremely unlikely, bearing in mind that if he/she is caught at some later date your details may well be on the computer system as having allowed him/her to  enter – inactive post may be pending.

Option 2... Feasible, but at considerable financial cost to the tax payer.

Option 3... Costs nothing to the tax payer and actually generates an income from the fine levied on the airline.  Also the problem of the document irregularities will then be the responsibility of the country where he/she came from.

 

So which option do you think the IO’s will go for?  I suspect Option 3 will figure at the top of their list.

[juice777]

My understanding is that, when someone is deported, they can go to any other country that will accept them. Unfortunately, other countries and airlines will not accept you. A country for which you have citizenship is obliged to accept you and, similarly, under international law, the national airline must carry you. Thus, being forced to go to your home country is not a decision of Thai immigration, but a function of other countries' refusal to accept you.

I don't know much about this but isn't a denied entry different form deportation. And I thought they was still allowed in other countries.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[perthperson]

2 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

So which option do you think the IO’s will go for?

Most likely they will go for your option 2.   Those involved with/using fake passports are not "innocents"  they are actively involved with criminality. 

 

A case in Phuket recently involved two such criminals being arrested at the airport. 

[007 RED]

3 minutes ago, perthperson said:

Most likely they will go for your option 2.   Those involved with/using fake passports are not "innocents"  they are actively involved with criminality. 

 

A case in Phuket recently involved two such criminals being arrested at the airport. 

Were they arriving or departing? 

 

 I totally agree that presenting fake documents is illegal.  However, if the discovery is made at arrivals then the senior IO and prosecutors will tend to take the course of action which causes the least problems for them or the tax payer.  If departing, then they have to take action because if they allow the individuals to depart the chances are they will be returned by the country they were hoping to fly to so they end up with the problem.

 

FYI.... There have been several 'fly on the wall' TV programs over recent years showing behind the scene activities at various airports in the UK, Australian, Dubai, Columbia and the US.  In nearly all of these programs they have shown immigration officials at work and what happens when document irregularities are discovered (arrivals/departures).  In all cases of arrival shown of individuals arriving the individuals was sent back and departing they were arrested and prosecuted. 

 

OK I know this is Thailand and they do things differently, but I still maintain they will opt for the course of least problems/cost.

[novo58]

I feel that Britim ( post #4) has the right answer to this question. The only place that Thailand can be CERTAIN will allow you entry is your home passport country.  So that is where you will be " sent" as your home country MUST let you in.

 

If you "choose" to go to another country and they refuse you entry ...then surely THEY will send you back to Thailand ...and the saga begins again.

 

Logic says you are sent to your home country.............for this reason.

[perthperson]

44 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Were they arriving or departing? 

Arriving ---  Taking the "easiest" option in relation to these criminals is not something I would condon. 

 

Most countries take strong action in relation to this form of crime ------ Check the reports about the passports being used by terrorists in Europe.....

[Thingamabob]

Yawn. Move on..

[jacko45k]

There weren't any being turned back yesterday when I landed, it was absolutely heaving.