"My Mate Nate" doesn't have a work permit - but lucky break means he won't be prosecuted for working

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

i would say they have made it so expensive for a foreign run business to run that it is almost impossible to compete with thai businesses. actually over the 10 years i just finished in pattaya mine was the only business that i knew of working under this structure. if they are trying to attract this type of business it is a complete failure.

 

My take on it is that they aren't trying to attract bootstrap startups or micro businesses that are going to go on for years that way,  spinning off a little bit of cash, employing 3 or fewer Thai locals.  

 

In which case, they have succeeded.   I'm not saying that's a good policy.  But the results lead me to believe that's what they're trying for.

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

Does this mean the Digital Nomad situation will be reassessed?

why would it? of course it would be a benefit for thailand to have digital nomads living in thailand spending their income but for some reason they dont see it that way. over a decade in thailand i never saw any improvement in visas for those who were just wanting to spend money in thailand. if you can show income or funds in the bank why not give a visa? i had high hopes for the multi entry tourist visa but no, it was made so difficult to get it is a waste of time.

[speedtripler]

11 minutes ago, Restinpeace said:

I don't see any gray area about this at all. He's clearly working _IN_ Thailand with thai people and the country as the focus of his material. He's also putting up the content while living within Thailand. It doesn't matter if it's media it's still producing property. The real gray area would be a digital nomad who codes for a living or does some affiliate marketing whose job is based completely abroad. A person who recieves income from owning real estate abroad and spends it in Thailand for example is not working in Thailand.

If your primary consumer market/audience is in the country you are in and you are producing content or material for them then you are working there full stop.

 

He should be prosecuted and deported asap.

 

What about a person who receives dividends + logs into the new York stock market to manage his own assets? 

 

If I bought Facebook shares today  and sell it tomorrow for a profit is that work? 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by speedtripler

[NanLaew]

Since the Labour Department pulled a previously undeclared 'amnesty' out of their asses and alluded that not only could past transgressions be forgiven but any application for an after-the-fact WP along with the granting of such a WP is also possible, I suspect that they now have a very good handle on the wee gold mine that their new 'mate' is sitting on and for a reasonably significant but similarly undeclared remittance of tax made on Thai-based earnings to Thailand, he will be allowed to fade away.

[Toshiba66]

5 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

Does this mean the Digital Nomad situation will be reassessed?

I personally don't think so.

 

What Restinpeace says above is correct I think.  This guy is making his money from being in Thailand. If he was living anywhere else he has no income. A digital nomad can work from any country because he does not need Thailand to support his income. Working from home while abroad and not taking anything from any Thai person. His work and his income are not connected to Thailand.

[NanLaew]

Just now, speedtripler said:

 

What about a person who receives dividends + logs into the new York stock market to manage his own assets? 

 

 

No problem.

 

...as long as they don't mow their own lawn and/or remodel their condominium (whichever is applicable).

[Grusa]

1 hour ago, Familyaffairs said:

 "If this moron's special skills are transferred to Thais, God help us all."

Done already.

[dansbkk]

As an American, he is required to pay taxes to the American Government, no matter where he is earning his money or where he is based.  Whichever company pays him for his clicks or advertising are required to report this income to the USA- IRS department.  He gets an exemption on foreign income and foreign income taxes paid, but if he is not paying foreign taxes, he owes the IRS for any income generated worldwide.  It may suck to be him if he has not been paying taxes to the American Government.

[impulse]

1 minute ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

why would it? of course it would be a benefit for thailand to have digital nomads living in thailand spending their income but for some reason they dont see it that way. over a decade in thailand i never saw any improvement in visas for those who were just wanting to spend money in thailand. if you can show income or funds in the bank why not give a visa? i had high hopes for the multi entry tourist visa but no, it was made so difficult to get it is a waste of time.

 

It would be great if it worked the way a lot of people envision it.  But the reality is that the vast majority of digital nomads make a few extra bucks a month with their blogs to supplement their real jobs.  

 

For every successful one they let in they'd get a hundred wannabe's here mostly for the cheap sex who would eventually cause a drain on the social fabric because they can't get the real job they need to supplement. 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

It would be great if it worked the way a lot of people envision it.  But the reality is that the vast majority of digital nomads make a few extra bucks a month with their blogs to supplement their real jobs.  

 

For every successful one they let in they'd get a hundred wannabe's here mostly for the cheap sex who would eventually cause a drain on the social fabric because they can't get the real job they need to supplement. 

 

i actually believe there is a way to do a visa for digital nomads. they put so much effort into auditing me for my visa and work permit each year it would be less work for them to verify a digi nomad to weed out the fakers. just talk of course as it is not going to happen. thailand is going on and on about trying to get more tourists but they should be trying to get and hold people who just want to live in thailand and spend money. the witch hunt looking at every foreigner who stays over 30 days must be working is counter productive for everyone.

[impulse]

2 hours ago, JAG said:

It will be very interesting to see whether the large amount of money this fellow makes from his Utube activities which now require a work permit, and the widespread benefits which may result, will be sufficient to overcome authorities antipathy to social media!

 

This is one of those times he's probably going over in his mind all of his YouTube videos, hoping to God he hasn't done any critical of the government.

 

[Sandy Freckle]

It would serve his health well if he keeps a weather eye out..., especially at night...., being vigilant..., looking over his shoulder often.  
He has likely changed his digs(at least once) since that now infamous posting. 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Sandy Freckle

[Scott]

A post with a video containing profanity has been removed.  

[Jip99]

4 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

Because this is Thailand. Making it harder and harder for the rest of us who have families here. I don't see it improving until after the "election". 

 

 

 

Previous elections have not served you well in this regard and I doubt that future ones will either!

[speedtripler]

Just now, impulse said:

 

This is one of those times he's probably going over in his mind all of his YouTube videos, hoping to God he hasn't done any critical of the government.

 

You can delete videos from YouTube! 

This guy is clearly an idiot but it's not a "job"  anyone else could do And if he makes some revenue from it (millions they say)  it should be uncle Sam who gives him the monster tax bill.... 

 

I don't agree with Thai selective enforcement, there are dozens of nomads with YouTube channels that are not paying a penny and probably never will.... 

 

 

[anon6596585]

So if the authorities would of done their jobs months ago or years ago when this idiot was first getting reported and hated, then he could of got deported. 

But Nope, slow carefree attitude and wait until they had no choice, now they cant do anything.  

 

Just another day in Thailand

[tonray]

Digital Nomads would be wise to band together and form a company legally with shared expenses for setup and admin. Profit shares could be distributed per how much revenue you contribute. Get work permits and make it all above board instead of working holed up at Coffee Today or Starbucks. It would filter out those who did not really generate a significant amount of revenue and maybe have a minimum monthly revenue expected (average) of 50K baht to qualify as an employee.

[aslimversgwm]

1 hour ago, tonray said:

I doubt he is smarter, perhaps just a classless individual who does not care what anyone thinks about him, only money and seeking attention. After all, America has a President just like him, same psych profile.

I just love this comment! Spot on tonray!

[Toshiba66]

6 minutes ago, tonray said:

Digital Nomads would be wise to band together and form a company legally with shared expenses for setup and admin. Profit shares could be distributed per how much revenue you contribute. Get work permits and make it all above board instead of working holed up at Coffee Today or Starbucks. It would filter out those who did not really generate a significant amount of revenue and maybe have a minimum monthly revenue expected (average) of 50K baht to qualify as an employee.

So if 20 digital nomads get together and do as you suggest what do they do with the 80 Thais they must employ to make this legal?

[Meljames]

1 minute ago, Toshiba66 said:

So if 20 digital nomads get together and do as you suggest what do they do with the 80 Thais they must employ to make this legal?

rent them out

[impulse]

13 minutes ago, speedtripler said:

You can delete videos from YouTube! 

This guy is clearly an idiot but it's not a "job"  anyone else could do And if he makes some revenue from it (millions they say)  it should be uncle Sam who gives him the monster tax bill.... 

 

After accepting a fellow poster's contention that he has made $$ millions (and got called out on it), I did a little research into what he probably did make if he actually had over half a billion views.  Google makes it difficult, but there are some blogs and videos out there with some rough numbers.  If his CPM and monetization percentage are on the low end, he'd be well under the US expat tax dodge hurdle of +/- $100K per year.   Or it could be a lot higher.  We can only speculate, and apparently Google's T&C's prohibit him from telling anyone.

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by impulse

[ChidlomDweller]

31 minutes ago, speedtripler said:

 

What about a person who receives dividends + logs into the new York stock market to manage his own assets? 

 

If I bought Facebook shares today  and sell it tomorrow for a profit is that work? 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that's already provided for in the law.  Stock investments outside of Thailand are exempt.  In that sense it's more lax than most Western countries.

[humqdpf]

9 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

The answer is not just about Thailand but a global phenomenon.  Why should digital work be free of national regulations or taxes?  What about programming?  Why not incude all intellectual work?  Rules should be the same for everyone.  The only reason why digital workers and internet companies get away with it has to do with the ease of evading taxes, more than the ethics of it.

 

I'm not a fan of this government, or any Thai government, but that's a separate point.  If you choose to live in a country and enjoy the public benefits like roads, an educated population, access to a police force when needed, etc., you ought to pay just like the next person.  I know those benefits are a shambles in Thailand, but it's the general principle: taxes are the cost of living in a civilized society.  If you choose to make a country your home, and you make your money in that country, you're on the hook to pay taxes as much as a local worker.

This is not a new issue. Anyone providing advice, consultancy or doing something creative is bound by tax rules. In most cases, the rules for individuals are concerned with residency and where you earned with tax agreements between countries that deal with double-taxation so that you cannot be taxed twice on the same income (unless you are from a country like the USA where you can be taxed twice).

 

So this idea that there are "digital nomads" out there who earn huge amounts of untaxed money while using wifi in some coffee shop is just a lot of bull. If they are earning a significant amount and it goes through a bank as it inevitably must, the bank will automatically report transfers above a certain amount to the local tax authority. In addition, in many jurisdictions banks have to hand over their customer's accounts for scrutiny to the tax man as a matter of course. Unless an individual is in a low tax or zero tax jurisdiction/haven (which Thailand definitely is not!) AND is not a resident in their own country AND their own country does not impose taxation on worldwide income, only then will they be able to work paying low or no tax.

 

Yes, there are digital companies out there who spend a king's randsom on advisors and lawyers so as to avoid paying tax and do so very successfully. But these avenues are not open to inviduals, especially individuals who are not billionaires with attendant very expensive tax accountants and lawyers. For the rest of us, it is just too easy for the tax authorities of this world to freeze our bank accounts and go after our assets if we try to evade tax on income.

[anto]

I think Nate is a genius .He seems to be one step ahead of everybody .Will be interesting to see how this pans out .

[tonray]

12 minutes ago, Toshiba66 said:

So if 20 digital nomads get together and do as you suggest what do they do with the 80 Thais they must employ to make this legal?

Or perhaps they can just stop whining and go back to their home countries and work for a living ?

 

How do teaching agencies do it ? I know an agency that employs 80-100 teachers and has a Thai staff of about 6 in the office,

Edited July 19, 2017 by tonray

[speedtripler]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

After accepting a fellow poster's contention that he has made $$ millions (and got called out on it), I did a little research into what he probably did make if he actually had over half a billion views.  Google makes it difficult, but there are some blogs and videos out there with some rough numbers.  If his CPM and monetization percentage are on the low end, he'd be well under the US expat tax dodge hurdle of $100K per year.   Or it could be a lot higher.  We can only speculate, and apparently Google's T&C's prohibit him from telling anyone.

 

Millions of thb maybe over 100k usd.... 

 

Just now, ChidlomDweller said:

I'm pretty sure that's already provided for in the law.  Stock investments outside of Thailand are exempt.  In that sense it's more lax than most Western countries.

What about day trading foreign markets? What about forex? 

You are also making money from a computer and internet connection while physically located in Thailand... 

I don't see much difference between those activities and being paid royalties from a YouTube video  

[Jasonron]

If one really needs a work permit for posting videos on YouTube then it is a serious debate. How can that be described as work and what papers do you need to get a work permit.. regarding taxes Yes there are laws here too that if one stays and has been working here for money for more than a year then, taxes have to be paid. But the fact is how many of the foreigners here who work for a living pay taxes.. I know of some businessmen who pay taxes but others, mostly teachers.. most of the teachers my neighbors and my colleagues hated the idea about paying tax.. that is really an offense. Living in a country making out a living  by working and earning money here but refusing to pay a few thousand baht a year is highly despicable.. Thailand has to implement stricter laws with all foreigners who work here .. why whine about the country you chose to live and have families . .better leave 

[JustNo]

38 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

why would it? of course it would be a benefit for thailand to have digital nomads living in thailand spending their income but for some reason they dont see it that way. over a decade in thailand i never saw any improvement in visas for those who were just wanting to spend money in thailand. if you can show income or funds in the bank why not give a visa? i had high hopes for the multi entry tourist visa but no, it was made so difficult to get it is a waste of time.

I have a feeling that Thai egotism and a sense of superiority gets in the way of them opening things up to digital nomads in a legit way. But damn they could make a killing on taxes and visa fees across the nation.  

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, Jasonron said:

I know of some businessmen who pay taxes but others, mostly teachers.. most of the teachers my neighbors and my colleagues hated the idea about paying tax.. that is really an offense. Living in a country making out a living  by working and earning money here but refusing to pay a few thousand baht a year is highly despicable.. Thailand has to implement stricter laws with all foreigners who work here .. why whine about the country you chose to live and have families . .better leave 

 

Every year to renew my WP, we have to present documents showing I've paid enough taxes the previous year.  No proof of paying income taxes, no extension of the WP.

 

[HOOD Robin]

2 hours ago, charmonman said:

That is an interesting point you make in that he was making the videos IN Thailand with the purpose of earning money on them, but what is the next step on this slippery slope? Maybe prohibiting tourists from posting any videos on Youtube of their Thailand holidays? Prohibiting foreigners from even using a laptop without a work permit? The bureaucracy of the labour / immigration departments of this country need to seriously update themselves to the modern world.

 

This whole story about My Mate Nate is almost as ridiculous as the pensioners who were arrested in Pattaya a couple of years for playing bridge. If putting a few coins on a railway track can seriously cause damage to the train or the tracks then Thailand also needs an emergency update to its transport system. What if a small stone found its way on to the track? Would it cause a major derailment? This whole thing is incredibly stupid, even for Thailand.

 

Charmonman i FULLY agree with you mate !

Everybody knows that THOUSANDS travel the world while making money with their laptop. Does this mean, while being in Thailand for a couple of days or weeks and doing their stuff online that get them paid by FOREIGN companies or creditors and/or collecting the money on his bank account in his/her money from origine while being in TH is seen as "illigal working in Thailand" ??

GIMME A BREAK !! i think there is not any other country than Thailand regarding these ridiculous rules !!

And BTW, its said that foreigners cant do any job that can be done by Thai people...  C'me on.... How many Thai folks even understand anything of that online stuff ? They HARDLY can speak ENGLISH !!