Renting a condo before moving to LOS

[moogradod]

My Thai Wife and me, living in Swtzerland now, will move to LOS. Planning horizon until End of February 2018.

 

We would like to have an initial Thai adress before moving, open bank accounts etc. and want to rent a house or Appartment in advance in the name of my wife. Area around Pattaya.

1. How do you

   recommend to proceed with renting ? We will be based in Pattaya City and rent a car. Planned duration is 3 weeks until rental contract. I understand that there are many Property Consultants around – and some seem to have a good reputation. Any special topics we should observe ?
2. Requirements for contract ? My wife is Thai. I guess we would need as well to pay some months in advance plus the deposit.
3. Is there a map which shows the area of Immigration Jomtien ? Want to stay pereferably in the same “jurisdiction” and Jomitien has the reputation of being friendly and helpful.
4. Is there a map showing land under water after the last flooding ?

Any helpful advice is greatly appreciated.

Edited July 21, 2017 by moogradod
only formal

[KittenKong]

You should study some of the older threads in these forums as all your questions have been covered many times.

 

There are thousands of condos and houses available for rent here. Oversupply is endemic. Most advertised prices are way over the top and you should negotiate very hard. Cant say that I've ever heard of an agent with a good reputation here but, like hookers with a heart of gold, there may be some somewhere.

There are literally hundreds of websites advertising condos for rent and sale here. You should study them but dont believe everything you read.

 

I would be inclined to do some research before moving here but not actually renting anything until you have seen it with your own eyes. There are plenty of hotels and weekly/monthly apartments and condos to stay in while you look for something more permanent.

 

Deposits are generally one or two months of the rental price. Some tenants have trouble getting their deposit back even if they have caused no damage. A contract can be monthly or yearly. You should pay a lot less for a yearly rate.

 

Jomtien immigration covers all the Pattaya and Jomtien area. You are very unlikely to be in a condo outside this area.

 

Long-term flooding is not really an issue in Pattaya. You can get brief flooding during storms just about anywhere, but it generally subsides quite fast. If you are worried just make sure that you live on a hill or a slope, even a small one.

 

In another thread you ask about bringing all your money to Thailand and putting it in your wife's name. Given that your knowledge of the country appears to be less than minimal, I strongly suggest that you leave your money in Switzerland in your name for several years until you are much more experienced about life here. Many people have come here and lost everything very fast.

 

Another suggestion would be to rent for a year, or even a few years, before considering buying any property if you are at all likely to do that.

[moogradod]

Thanks KittenKong

 

Very much appreciated. We would like to obtain a fixed adress before we move in because we might then as well open all bank accounts necessary, give a correct shipping adress for the container etc. We will only come to Thailand for that purpose, head back home then and prepare everything to leave permanently. We are not considering buying anything.

 

I may not leave any money in Switzerland - I am German and may not hold any accounts once I leave, neither may my Thai wife.

 

I have known Thailand now for 42 years, travelled there extensively for decades and I am married very happily with my Thai wife for 12 years. Sorry if my questions seem a bit naive.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by moogradod

[KittenKong]

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

We would like to obtain a fixed adress before we move in because we might then as well open all bank accounts necessary, give a correct shipping adress for the container etc. We will only come to Thailand for that purpose, head back home then and prepare everything to leave permanently.

 

Yes, come and look at a few condos and rent one for a year. Make a short-list from websites before arriving. If you aren't into bars and nightlife then you would probably find Jomtien quieter and cheaper, even near the beach. If you will have your own transport then there are many places on Pratumnak. North Pattaya/Naklua also has its supporters.

Then you will have a year to find something better.

 

Be aware that there are rules about importing your personal effects without paying tax. You might like to consider putting your visa extension in place before doing this. If you are bringing money here and are over 50 (from your description you probably are) then you can easily get an extension based on retirement very cheaply or, much less simply, one based on marriage. You dont need to live here to have a retirement extension. You dont need to be retired either. Many details in the visa sub-forum.

 

 

3 hours ago, moogradod said:

I may not leave any money in Switzerland - I am German and may not hold any accounts once I leave, neither may my Thai wife.

 

I have known Thailand now for 42 years, travelled there extensively for decades and I am married very happily with my Thai wife for 12 years.

 

Fair enough. You can clearly make up your own mind. But I've seen so many people lose their shirt (and more) here that I feel some sort of warning should be given.

[jeab1980]

Hes already said he has vast knowledge of Thailand and has been married for 12 years and he still has his shirt on so why do you feel it nessasary to try and warn him about things he i expect will already have heard a million times over.

[1FinickyOne]

When it comes to renting or buying, I think it is really important to not engage in any contracts until you visit the property in person. Even if you send in an agent to view something for you - something that you might find offensive, might not bother them at all... for example, the next door neighbor might be noisy, or their cooking smell might fill the hallway etc etc... 

 

There are so many choices in Pattaya and so many plusses and minuses - don't you think you are more likely to be satisfied if you choose for yourself after seeing a place?

[Belzybob]

12 hours ago, jeab1980 said:

Hes already said he has vast knowledge of Thailand and has been married for 12 years and he still has his shirt on so why do you feel it nessasary to try and warn him about things he i expect will already have heard a million times over.

Exactly what contribution to the thread is this post making?

[jeab1980]

29 minutes ago, Belzybob said:

Exactly what contribution to the thread is this post making?

The contribution is that he doesnt need telling about the so called pitfalls in Thailand. Where  yours has increaded your post count by 1

[nasanews]

20 hours ago, moogradod said:

I may not leave any money in Switzerland - I am German and may not hold any accounts once I leave, neither may my Thai wife.

I may add you keep your bank account in Switzerland and you can do internet banking (transfer money to Thai bank account) instead of bringing all your cash with you.

[wpcoe]

Not sure how long would lapse between your initial house-hunting visit and your final permanent return, and not sure of your budget, but you should be able to get a six-month (or even three-month?) lease on a decent studio in one of the early View Talay buildings (VT1A/1B/2A/2B) in a decent Jomtien location for under B10,000 per month.  For those, I would suggest visiting the buildings and check the bulletin boards in the lobby and/or on the walls of the mini-marts in the lobby.  At the end of February, the snowbirds are starting to leave and you might be able to strike a deal with an owner willing to rent out cheaply, even short-term, rather than have an empty unit.  (You might have better luck with a foreign owner than a Thai owner.  It seems many Thais would rather leave a property empty than lower the price for an immediate rental.) Even if your ultimate goal would be a house, at least a short-term condo rental would provide a permanent address to set up banking and such, and give you a place to stay while you look around.

 

Check with your shipping company in Switzerland and find if they can arrange shipping to the port (Laem Chabang?) for now, and then if you can later advise (or change) the actual final shipping address.  That would give you extra time to find your ultimate home.

 

I do know some real estate agents I could recommend as knowledgeable and trustworthy, but I think you'll get a better deal looking in lobbies and dealing directly with a condo owner.

 

For minimizing import tax on your household goods, it's my understanding that a returning Thai is allowed a generous duty free allowance, so shipping in your wife's name may help. There is a widely held belief that folks on an Non-immigrant O-A ("retirement") visa get a special duty free allowance, but I've seen that debunked time and again here on the forum.  Ditto for folks having a retirement extension.

[Peterw42]

OP, since you want an address for immigration, bank accounts, shipping etc, its a good idea to make sure anywhere you rent can do TM30 reporting, provide copies of blue book for the property and owners ID etc, even your Thai wife in the blue book. 

You basically tell immigration where you live and they provide a document (certificate of residency) to open bank accounts, get a license etc.

Immigration will most of the time take a lease document as proof of address but sometime require TM30, Blue book and owner ID etc

[KittenKong]

49 minutes ago, wpcoe said:

There is a widely held belief that folks on an Non-immigrant O-A ("retirement") visa get a special duty free allowance, but I've seen that debunked time and again here on the forum.  Ditto for folks having a retirement extension.

 

There is indeed a procedure for importing your household goods tax-free in those circumstances. But there are many hoops to jump through and some quite specific rules to abide by very closely. So to succeed would require a lot of care.

 

I was not aware of the allowance for returning Thai nationals but that sounds like it might be a good option for anyone with a Thai partner.

[fxe1200]

22 hours ago, moogradod said:

Thanks KittenKong

 

"......

I may not leave any money in Switzerland - I am German and may not hold any accounts once I leave, neither may my Thai wife.

......"

That must be wrong, I am German. As a German citizen you can hold an account in Switzerland, Luxembourg, the Cayman islands, and more. The best would be, to keep those foreign accounts, and transfer to your Thai bank account by Transferwise or a similar service. Make sure your Thai bank does not charge for incoming amounts in THB. The Bangkok Bank does not charge anything.

[wpcoe]

23 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

There is indeed a procedure for importing your household goods tax-free in those circumstances. But there are many hoops to jump through and some quite specific rules to abide by very closely. So to succeed would require a lot of care.

 

I was not aware of the allowance for returning Thai nationals but that sounds like it might be a good option for anyone with a Thai partner.

Found this via Google:

 

Quote

 

IMPORTING USED / SECONDHAND HOUSEHOLD EFFECTS

Returning Thai residents who have been abroad for one year or longer, for the purposes other than touring are eligible to bring in household effects acquired abroad free of taxes and duties. In addition, nonresidents changing their residence to Thailand may import the household effects subject to the conditions stated below without payment of import taxes duties.

 

The term household effects includes all goods which are normally necessary to equip a self-contained home e.g. furniture, books, tableware, stereos and similar household furnishings, etc. To be eligible for tax and duty free allowance, the importers are required to have owned, possessed, and used the household effects before they return to Thailand to resume residence. It is important that the importers meet the three requirements of ownership, possession, and use. For example, if they owned and possessed the goods without using them, the goods would be subject to regular taxes and duties. Personal effects accompanied with the owner traveling into or out of Thailand, including any goods used or will be used commercially are not eligible as household effects and cannot brought in tax and duty free as the household effects. NOTE: Motor vehicles, alcoholic beverages and tobacco are excluded from this relief.

 

REQUIREMENTS FOR DUTY FREE ALLOWANCE

Both Thai and non-Thai residents changing residence into Thailand are eligible to bring used/secondhand household effects into Thailand, in reasonable quantities, free of taxes and duties. It is also required that the imported used/ secondhand household effects have been owned, possessed, and used in the country where the importers resided before returning to Thailand to resume residence.

 

In case where the household effects are electrical appliances e.g. radios, televisions, refrigerators, microwaves, ovens, air conditioners, etc., only ONE unit each of such items is eligible for tax and duty free allowance. However, if it is the family change of residence, TWO units each of the items will be allowed to bring in tax and duty free. Any excess unit shall be subject to regular taxes and duties, and Customs will place the items that have the lowest rate of duty under tax and duty exemption.

 

It is important that the used/secondhand household effects must be imported not earlier than one month before or not later than six months after the arrival of the importers. Under exceptional circumstances, Customs may extend the time limits for the importers.

 

REQUIREMENTS FOR CHANGING OF RESIDENCE

• Nonresidents: Nonresidents may import the used/secondhand household effects acquired abroad tax and duty free if such household effects accompanied them in the change of residence and they are qualified under the criteria listed below:
• Nonresidents resuming residents in Thailand must be granted a non-immigrant quota as shown in a passport or a Nonresident Identification Card; or
• Nonresidents granted to work in Thailand are regarded as resuming residents in Thailand provided they have a one-year non-immigrant visa issued by the Immigration Department. In case where the non-immigrant visa has not yet been granted, either of the following documents may be accepted:
  • The letter from the Immigration Department certifying that the nonresidents shall be granted an annual temporary stay in Thailand; or
  • The work permit from the Department of Labor to work in Thailand for at least one year.
• Nonresidents entering Thailand as an expert, specialist, or under a contract of government agencies are required to present the letter from relevant agencies certifying that such nonresidents are granted a non-immigrant visa issued by the Immigration Department and shall work in Thailand not less than one year.

Accompanying spouses of the nonresidents in (2) and (3) are regarded as resuming residence in Thailand provided the spouses have non-immigrant visas issued by the Immigration Department to stay in Thailand for the first 90 days.

 

source:  http://en.customs.go.th/cont_strc_simple.php?lang=en&top_menu=menu_searching_result&current_id=14232832404f505e4e

 

The first two paragraphs were what I had heard about returning Thais.  The third paragraph  does include "non-Thai residents."   Interesting.

 

Not quite sure what "Nonresidents resuming residents in Thailand"  nor being "granted a non-immigrant quota" are.  Is that only for non-residents who previously were residents?  Would a Non-Immigrant O-A visa qualify?

 

And then:

 

Quote

 

Documents

• An Import Declaration (Customs Form No. 99/1);
• A passport;
• Nonresidents are required to submit the following documents:
• The letter issued by the Immigration Department confirming that an annual temporary stay is granted;
• A one-year (or more) work permit issued by the Department of Labor;
• The letter from a relevant government agency confirming that a non-immigrant visa from the Immigration Department is granted and that working period in Thailand is not less than 1 year, for those entering Thailand as an expert, specialist, or under government contracts;
  • Thai Residents are required to submit an evidence of changing residence e.g. a transcript, reshuffle of positions, termination of employment contract, etc.;

If those bullet points mean "and," then a work permit is required.   So do retirees get the duty free allowance, or not?  

[KittenKong]

4 hours ago, wpcoe said:

So do retirees get the duty free allowance, or not?  

 

Probably depends on which way the wind is blowing, like many things here.

[Khun Jean]

3 hours ago, KittenKong said:

 

Probably depends on which way the wind is blowing, like many things here.

No it doesn't.

It depends solely how much you know about the rules and are willing to stand up for your rights.

 

I have been through it and the worst part was dealing with agents!!!!!

Shipping agent said it would cost about 60.000 baht to import a container full of household goods. I let them know my thoughts on that for sure!

In the end i paid a few thousand baht because i had two TV's, two fridges and two washing machines. The transport to my condo was 5000 baht and unloading it (4 people) was another 3000.

Best option is to ship the container to the closest port and handle the rest by yourself. Transport should not cost more then 10.000 for whole Thailand. The closer you are the cheaper it will be.

 

The preparation was lots of work though. I had each box numbered and in a document describing the content of each box. The more detail the better.

It will make them bored to go through 25 pages of listed items. Items like socks, spoons, towels, underpants, gloves, nail cutter etc..

Ridiculous but very effective and no room for discussions about content.

They opened the container, had a quick look, and that was it.

[moogradod]

On 22.7.2017 at 8:52 AM, wpcoe said:

Not sure how long would lapse between your initial house-hunting visit and your final permanent return, and not sure of your budget, but you should be able to get a six-month (or even three-month?) lease on a decent studio in one of the early View Talay buildings (VT1A/1B/2A/2B) in a decent Jomtien location for under B10,000 per month. 

 

I do know some real estate agents I could recommend as knowledgeable and trustworthy, but I think you'll get a better deal looking in lobbies and dealing directly with a condo owner.

 

For minimizing import tax on your household goods, it's my understanding that a returning Thai is allowed a generous duty free allowance, so shipping in your wife's name may help. There is a widely held belief that folks on an Non-immigrant O-A ("retirement") visa get a special duty free allowance, but I've seen that debunked time and again here on the forum.  Ditto for folks having a retirement extension.

Interesting questions raised here.

 

1. The idea of a quick "studio" rental is appealing, although we might go through some serious administration if we then change for a final home. What we would finally like to rent is a condo (no house) with 3 rooms (this does NOT include a "Living room")  and 2 baths. Sorry for this dumb question: Is this condo then a 4 bedroom condo or a 3 bedroom condo ? In Switzerland rooms are counted differently.
2. An intereresting one is the question of landlord: Is it better if this is a Thai or Foreigner ? There are so many considerations here - would probably make up a 100 post thread. One advantage we have is that my wife gets along with anybody extremely well.
3. I expect the involvment of a real estate agent would speed up things. Last year we have been driving around the area of Bang Saray, but from the road it is difficult to spot rentable locations. They are not all high-rise I suppose. I have found a property site for rentals in Pattaya with very many offers. As I am not aware of the incentives a real estate agent gets I am a bit reluctant concerning prices, but what is advertised seems not to be very wrong.
4. The question of shipping is extremely valid for us. I do have some serious electronics (Music and Home-Theatre) , guitars, kitchen machines, CDs, BluRays, IT-equipment like NAS, Computers, Video-Cameras, Photo equipment etc., my wife has a collection of clothes, bags etc. etc. - you may imagine. It would appeal to me to make a contract with a shipping company door-to-door and not being involved at the entry port at all. Shipping will be in the name of my Thai wife. I will make this a seperate topic later. As the financial setup this is something that needs special attention. It may be taken into account that I will very most propably be on a Thai Elite Visa when entering the country.

I always would see the condo myself before any contract is concluded, for the final location I would even go so far as to stay on the premises for some days before finally singning longterm. Noise is a consideration - this means consideration of Neighbors, time of the day, different weekdays. Somewhere before someone said, that a location even near to Jomtien Beach is acceptable. Some time, Thais like to place their cars at the beach with their stereos cranked up at midnight. We would avoid such places, as well as Neighbors with strong Karaoke affinity etc. In the back of Jomtien, away from the beach might be OK, as well as at the end of Jomtien. Pratumnak Hill is as well a favourite, even Bang Saray being a bit more away from the city.

 

 

 

[KittenKong]

1. A three-bedroom condo should have three bedrooms, plus at least one other living room or maybe two. It will probably also have a separate kitchen though this may form part of the living room.

I dont see why moving should present serious admin problems, but maybe your life is unusually complex.

 

2. The best landlord is a dead good one. I dont think that skin colour makes much difference as there are plenty of bad ones of all skin colours. The law is heavily stacked against tenants here. Study your contract and change the parts you dont like before signing.

 

3. For rentals agents seem to get about one month's rent for a year's contract. Maybe more if they are also managing the property etc.

 

4. I dont see what anyone over 50 really gets with the Elite visa that's worth paying so much for, but it's your money so it's up to you.

 

5. (Noise.) Thais are very noisy people and noise can be a nuisance everywhere in Thailand, but naturally more so in party towns like Pattaya. If you want quiet perhaps you should go to somewhere like Hua Hin, and even there you may be unlucky as you only need one idiot as a neighbour to mess things up for you. The same applies to Pratumnak as this has a high proportion of Russians who are also not very quiet people.

As far as Jomtien beach itself goes, only a couple of parts of it seem to suffer from "boom boom" trucks. If more people complained I dare say it would stop.

 

[moogradod]

Thanks KittenKong for you inputs here in this topic

 

1. The admin concerns not moving itself, but changing the account adresses, whatever Residence Forms like house registration etc. etc. And thanks for the clarification of this "bedroom" count !
2. I absolutely agree. Regardless of my Thai wife's getting along with Thais very well. I have myself experienced problems with foreign residents - resulting even in the help of locals. It is not black and white at all. It all depends on the individuals itself. I have seen Thais with a wonderful or evil character. And everything in between. Same for the expats.
3. That is OK then. Thanks for the info. I have seen one site full of reasonable offers from a (maybe) serious brooker.
4. All about convenience. I do not like a "maybe issues - maybe no issues" discussion every year at the immigrations. Sometimes with form X then form Y, sometimes requirement A then B. I am retired then, have enough of discussing. After an initial effort I intend to lead a more or less hassle free life - as much as one may predict that - and I am willing very much to pay that extra 1 MioTHB in order to facilitate that over a period of 10 years.
5. I have a friend with a Business in Hua Hin, we have been there many times. This is actually TOO quiet and Pattaya is not so far away from BKK (driving with car), has better Restaurants and generally better infrastructure (Shopping centers, doctors, etc.). It offers good schools (wiil attend a Thai class - speak, read and write already some basic Thai). We were first thinking of living a bit outside Pattaya (like a 15-20 minutes drive with the car) - it must be possible to have SOME residence with not too much noise around - will it ? We were thinking of a detached house out in the pampas first - but this is a security issue and a no go for us. Thanks for the Pratumnak Hill warning. Will take that into account.

[KittenKong]

1. Changing addresses on forms is easier than you might think. Banks even easier.

 

4. In Jomtien at least the retirement extension is very simple and straightforward. It takes me less than one hour spread over two visits on two days. It's rare to hear of people having problems with it here though it can be quite common elsewhere. At the very worst you could just pay an agent a couple of thousand Baht to do it for you. That would be much cheaper than the Elite visa, though maybe you think you will get some other value from the Elite visa.

 

5. You wont find much in the way of decent large condos 20 minutes drive from Pattaya as that takes you out into the wilderness, though possibly the ones a bit closer at Na Jomtien would suit you. Look at Ocean Marina and the half dozen or so others nearby and in Ban Amphur. That's about 10 minutes once you are on Sukumvit. Should be in your budget. The older ones you will find to be particularly spacious. I would live there myself only I would feel a bit daft in such large condos on my own.

Lost of nice houses for rent round that way, and out near the lake. For me houses are just too much potential hassle here (I like to travel for weeks or months without worrying about anything) and I really like to have a good high-rise view.

[Khun Jean]

Retirement visa procedure.

Go to immigration, get a number, show your bank book with at least 800.000 baht in it, wait for the stamp, go back home.

Depending on where you are this can take between 30 minutes and a whole day.

I live in Prachuap KhiriKhan (which is a delightful place much to my surprise, and yes there is sauerkraut and gulash here :) ) and for immigration i go to Hua Hin, which is about one hour drive. Typically i just make it a day out as the time i need to spend at immigration is at most 2 hours depending on the queue.

For the 90 day reporting i drive about 15 minutes to Dan Singkon immigration, step inside, show my passport, get my new paper, say thank you and go to the local market and back home.

This is my experience for the last 2 years, before that i lived in Bangkok and the one year extension of stay would take from 09:00 - 16:00 because it is very busy (Cheang Wattana). 90 day reporting i did in Lat Prao, often takes about 15-30 minutes.

You can also do your reporting online or by mail, it is really a smooth process.

 

So if you are worried about hassles with getting your extensions and 90 day reporting i would suggest keeping that 1 MB in your pocket as it can not get any easier then a retirement visa. The 'Elite' is more for people who can not have a retirement visa as they have to go through many hoops and scrutiny to get their extension.

In your case there is no hassle at all.

 

Edited July 23, 2017 by Khun Jean

[moogradod]

Thanks KittenKong and Khun Jean

 

I will rethink the Thai Elite. Maybe I could try to do the Retirement Extension myself once and if it is easy I stay with it and if not then I change to a TE-Visa. Hope this could be done then. If there were any legal certainty in LOS I would go the retirement extension route for sure anyway, for I qualify with ease. Just need to hope that the officials have as well this opinion.

 

Besides the embassy here in Zurich has some strange (to me) requirements to apply for a non-immi-O visa (not even a non-immi-OA) - like to show a rental contract of a residence in Thailand (How can you normally have a rental contract if you did not move to LOS first to conclude it ?)

 

My wife would LOVE to have a house (actually a garden) - but I hate the potential security problems. We will look at Ocean Marina (altough I recall having seen prices well outside of our budget there - 40KTHB is the limit we have set, but maybe I am mistaken). But there are others around. We will have a look there and in Ban Amphur.