Carnage on the Thai roads "even worse than you think" reports Thai media.

[Happyman58]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

Very lame. Nearly every time I see someone complaining, or observing a shortfall within Thailand, some lame guy, who has not taken the time to think things through, nor to devote any focus or effort to a reasonable reply, says something like "Perhaps Thailand is not for you", or maybe you should leave, or the top prize, "if you do not like it here, go back to your own country". Hard to even respond to such inane statements. Why? Because I have some issues with the place? Sorry to inform you, but the nature of a discerning mind, is to have issues. Though absolutely contentment must be a beautiful state of mind, it is not something most of us are blessed with, in case you have not noticed. The fact that I complain, does not mean I do not love Thailand, nor most of it's people. I do. I love my life here. I have a very good life here. But, I do have some complaints, and there are some things I would love to see improved. I should leave because of that? Please. Next time you make a post, try to devote at least two moments of thought to it. 

well said mike

[mercman24]

like the other headline story when a drunken cop stopped his police vehicle in the middle of the road to try and give impromptu breath tests, and what was his punishment, ? not the sack, but a transfer. says it all really

[brling]

2 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Apologist? For what? Maybe you haven't driven much around Pattaya and Bangkok!

Apologist for Thailand as usual. You want to blame farangs for many of the accidents. If you were to ban farangs from driving in Thailand, do you think the traffic stats. would be any better ?. It was you that said on an other thread ("there are bad drivers in the UK")   Yes there is but nothing like Thailand. What a pathetic attempt to justify for bad Thai driving. 

[mommysboy]

31 minutes ago, brling said:

Apologist for Thailand as usual. You want to blame farangs for many of the accidents. If you were to ban farangs from driving in Thailand, do you think the traffic stats. would be any better ?. It was you that said on an other thread ("there are bad drivers in the UK")   Yes there is but nothing like Thailand. What a pathetic attempt to justify for bad Thai driving. 

Agreed.  I don't doubt there some bad farang motorists who have no road experience, yet those who have driven in their own country would have gone through comprehensive lessons and a real test that is frequently failed at least once.  If they are bad drivers, then that is sadly their choice.  With Thais I get the impression they are just sub-standard.  Apologists seem to turn logic on its head.

[brewsterbudgen]

Apologist for Thailand as usual. You want to blame farangs for many of the accidents. If you were to ban farangs from driving in Thailand, do you think the traffic stats. would be any better ?. It was you that said on an other thread ("there are bad drivers in the UK")   Yes there is but nothing like Thailand. What a pathetic attempt to justify for bad Thai driving. 

You're being deliberately provocative. I didn't say Thai drivers are blameless or suggest that they are not responsible for the vast majority of road accidents here and I would never justify bad driving whoever is behind the wheel. I also never blamed farang drivers for "many of the accidents". You're free to believe that all farang drivers here are perfect drivers. From my experience they are not.

[brewsterbudgen]

Agreed.  I don't doubt there some bad farang motorists who have no road experience, yet those who have driven in their own country would have gone through comprehensive lessons and a real test that is frequently failed at least once.  If they are bad drivers, then that is sadly their choice.  With Thais I get the impression they are just sub-standard.  Apologists seem to turn logic on its head.

So you're agreeing with me. All I said is that there are many idiot farang drivers. They should know better!

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

So you're agreeing with me. All I said is that there are many idiot farang drivers. They should know better!

Not really, the number of bad farang drivers will be fractions of fractions, whereas Thai ones are everywhere, all the time.

[brewsterbudgen]

Not really, the number of bad farang drivers will be fractions of fractions, whereas Thai ones are everywhere, all the time.

I agree. The number of idiot farang drivers is way lower. But in my experience of popular farang places, like Bangkok and Pattaya, they cause a lot of accidents. They should know better.

[brling]

42 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I agree. The number of idiot farang drivers is way lower. But in my experience of popular farang places, like Bangkok and Pattaya, they cause a lot of accidents. They should know better.

Yes , I agree and I would never try to defend farangs, they should know better, but these are the same fools that go to Pattaya to buy a wife from a bar. They should know better.

[Airbagwill]

i think people are confusing "bad driving" with "road safety"

Bad driving is largely a subjective judgement and is a bit like calling toast breakfast.

 

The truth is the every country has about the same proportion of idiots - the difference is in preventing them from being idiots

 

Most Thai drivers are pretty good, considering the appalling driving environment they are driving in....most farangs are unaware of how bad the overall situation is and that driving is only part of the problem.

 

 

[nev]

A Thai friend sent this to me, it just shows in the video how bad they are at driving and how they don't give a toss who they run over, and just drives away rather than facing the consequences.

20410782_501994760177022_8544010186036084736_n.mp4

[mommysboy]

46 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why? Try reading the many reports of drunken farangs causing accidents on motorbikes or in SUVs.

 

Quite possibly true in Pattaya where there is a large concentration of foreigners.  In my many years in Bangkok, I can't honestly say I noticed any farangs driving badly.

 

I think there is one important distinction-whether it matters in the final analysis I don't know- and generally that is that while Thais simply don't know how to drive, the farangs you mentioned are simply under the influence.

 

But Pattaya is not representative of Thailand.  Two days ago riding my bike along a busy main shopping street in Surat, another bike approached completely on the wrong side of the road (not merely a chancer riding the white line), with the rider seemingly oblivious!  I pulled to a stop, whereas another biker simply overtook and took his chance in the narrow gap between said biker and the oncoming flow on the correct side of the road, while another didn't wait at a junction for the 'Mexican stand off' to be sorted out, instead choosing to enter the fray.  I didn't bother remonstrating as I'd be doing it all day in numerous situations, and I bet I'm not the only one.

 

 

The Thais involved and Thai apologists will no doubt point to my culpability in the matter, and advise me to pack my bags and go home.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2017 by mommysboy

[Jip99]

29 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Why? Try reading the many reports of drunken farangs causing accidents on motorbikes or in SUVs.

 

I think they are a drop in the ocean - even in those popular areas. Unacceptable by any measure but still a minority from what I have seen.

[brewsterbudgen]

 
I think they are a drop in the ocean - even in those popular areas. Unacceptable by any measure but still a minority from what I have seen.

Sure, they're a minority, but still nonsense to blame it 100% on Thai drivers as some like to. Driving standards as a whole need to improve, but will only do so very slowly for all the reasons outlined in this thread. Very depressing.

[YetAnother]

On 7/22/2017 at 0:52 PM, Jeremy50 said:

So much for the Junta leader's claims that he would reduce fatalities by 70% within a year.

didnt know/forgot he said that; big miss on his part;

i too believe the 'me first' attitude of thai drivers is a big contributor to the remarkably bad judgment we see on the streets and roads

[stanleycoin]

44 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'd take a stab at about 20% of accidents in Pattaya (and Phuket/Samui) being caused by idiot farangs, maybe 5% in Bangkok and less than 1% elsewhere. Just my perspective.

20%   in pattaya. 

 

Total joke mate.

 

[YetAnother]

On 7/22/2017 at 11:40 AM, ben2talk said:

No surprises here - lots of death and no proper system for doing policework or counting dead people.

yes,pretty sad

[brewsterbudgen]

20%   in pattaya.  :cheesy:
 
Total joke mate.
 

What would you estimate it as?

[sandemara]

On 7/22/2017 at 1:10 PM, Cadbury said:

So does that mean if the fatality numbers were tweaked to give a more accurate reading like the story is suggesting then Thailand could be No.1on the world road fatalities/per capita list? 

 

If so then that world record could probably be counted as PM Prayut's greatest ever under achievement. He is personally in charge of everything in Thailand from the attire of twerking dancers to road safety and corruption. The buck stops with him on every little thing even though he habitually passes the blame on to someone else.

Puts a new perspective on the current regime's legal actions on a Former PM's responsibilities or liabilities  with rice policies - will the next regimes act so diligently? What's good for the goose is good for the gander if the applicable legislation is  in place and this precedent exists.

A further thought: does Thailand need a standing military force at all?

Any sensible neighbour toying with the prospect of invasion would first consider their costs which would be enormous in financial terms alone.Why would they bother, considering Thailand's road users are already doing a pretty good job on their behalf every year.

I think would-be aggressors would be content to sit back and wait, and win by default in the long term.

Are Thais their own worst enemies?  With those stats in hand, it's hard to argue against the possibility.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I'd take a stab at about 20% of accidents in Pattaya (and Phuket/Samui) being caused by idiot farangs, maybe 5% in Bangkok and less than 1% elsewhere. Just my perspective.

Not so much as a stab as a wide lunging swing with a huge axe imo

[brewsterbudgen]

Not so much as a stab as a wide lunging swing with a huge axe imo:smile:

Just my perspective. What would you estimate it as?

[mommysboy]

18 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Just my perspective. What would you estimate it as?

 

19 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Just my perspective. What would you estimate it as?

Inclined to think fractions simply because there are so few farangs relative to Thais and I should think only a minority of those drive or ride.

 

But to give it undue attention misrepresents the general situation imo.  As I said, Pattaya may be an exception.

[Airbagwill]

There is a general misperception here.

Road crashes are normally caused by human error...but NOT usually by the kind of idiot behaviour anecdotally described as "the norm" by so many on this thread.

It is minor mistakes by "you and me" that cause the carnage.

Momentary losses of concentration by perfectly capable drivers are far more common and the cause of the carnage.

Worldwide alcohol is involved in around 33% of crashes so Thailand is par for the course.in that respect.

To explain the high fatality rate you have to look beyond the over simplistic concept of bad driving and look at overall road safety.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Airbagwill

[YetAnother]

i believe the WHO (http://www.searo.who.int/thailand/areas/roadsafety/en/) does attempt to estimate those hospital deaths and include them in their estimates; the article points out almost 2000 deaths each year of pedestrians !

[stanleycoin]

16 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

What would you estimate it as?

Accidents caused by foreigners in Thailand,  less than 1 %

Accidents caused by foreigners in Pattaya maybe 1% at best

 

Accidents incorrectly  blamed on foreigners maybe 99%

 

Most of us know who the bad guys are.

even if others have problems with that.

Edited July 27, 2017 by stanleycoin

[Airbagwill]

9 hours ago, YetAnother said:

i believe the WHO (http://www.searo.who.int/thailand/areas/roadsafety/en/) does attempt to estimate those hospital deaths and include them in their estimates; the article points out almost 2000 deaths each year of pedestrians !

Not only do they do that, they have a detailed explanation of how they collect, compile and collate their statistics.

 

To draw any conclusion from a single set (e.g. deaths per 100k) is misleading; there are many other ways of getting an impression of road safety.

Even looking at deaths per 100k people forget that Thailand is unusual in that it has 80% of deaths from motorcyclists....in other countries, especially in the west, motorcycle ownership/traffic is so low as to have a very small impact. If you take out the m/c death toll, Thailand's road deaths are comparable to the USA - which BTW has a pretty poor road safety record itself.

 

If you look at things like deaths per vehicle owned, mileage covered and vehicles per mile, Thailand again drops way down the league tables and gets on a par with places like the US again. I think many US expats fail to see the irony in this when they berate Thai drivers.

 

Thailand's road deaths are not simply a result of "bad driving" they are the result of a national  road safety environment that is disorganised and archaic....it costs the nation trillions of dollars in healthcare and lost incomes and far from being something that is inevitable or ignored it is something that the nation would fiscally profit from if addressed scientifically. Unfortunately with the present set up issues like road safety end up being dealt with by people who are simply not qualified to do the job issuing random and un-researched dictums in the hope that they will save face and keep their phoney-baloney positions..

 

If you really want to get a view from a different perspective, check out Thailand's emergency services - they are so utterly appalling that they alone could make a huge contribution to the death rates.

[Ocicat]

I drive Khonkaen to Khao Kho and back about 3 times a month and I have never seen such brainless, stupid , idiotic careless driving in my life. Passing on curves, blind hills, speeding for the road conditions and blatent disregard for the lives of others. Where the heck are the cops? No wonder all the above happens all the time.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Ocicat

[stanleycoin]

24 minutes ago, Ocicat said:

I drive Khonkaen to Khao Kho and back about 3 times a month and I have never seen such brainless, stupid , idiotic careless driving in my life. Passing on curves, blind hills, speeding for the road conditions and blatent disregard for the lives of others. Where the heck are the cops? No wonder all the above happens all the time.

Quote

Where the heck are the cops?

Tossing it off as usual.

 

[Airbagwill]

3 hours ago, Ocicat said:

I drive Khonkaen to Khao Kho and back about 3 times a month and I have never seen such brainless, stupid , idiotic careless driving in my life. Passing on curves, blind hills, speeding for the road conditions and blatent disregard for the lives of others. Where the heck are the cops? No wonder all the above happens all the time.

Sounds like you need to adapt to driving in Thailand.

[hobz]

I wrote a post earlier with some specific things that i see on the roads almost every day. Some people replied and dismiss everything as "untutored anecdotes" etc. I guess they are right.

 

If you come from Sweden. As I do. And you come to Thailand, as I did.

If you compare traffic in both countries you will invariably and undeniably notice a GENERAL recklessness on Thai roads. A GENERAL extreme lack of consideration for safety. We can discuss specific details etc etc. But it doesn't matter. Because you can immidiately see that drivers in thailand drive way worse and way more dangerous than in sweden. And ofcourse statistics back it up.