Young boy dies in hospital waiting room "because he had to wait"

[wildewillie89]

You get your odd hospital that has lazy staff in Thai, but usually they are a bit more on the ball in emergency. I will happily give up my spot if someone is clearly more critical than me, as other Thai have been forced to for me in my few emergency visits to Thai hospitals. Back in Australia was the same, I had a neck injury, looked like I was 100% fine, but they rushed me in before all the bloodied up people due to the seriousness of the 'possible' outcomes. 

I think this situation was just a bit unlucky. If can prove grounds of laziness leading to some sort of neglect/incompetence, then it will be interesting. I know an unpopular idea among members, but every time I have been to emergency, it was clogged with people who were injured due to no helmets, drug taking, alcohol abuse or the old smoking finally taking its toll. And yet many complain about taxes/fines on these things and they moved here not to have such tight regulations bla bla. Well this is one of the results of not having these tight regulations...

Edited July 24, 2017 by wildewillie89

[billd766]

13 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Dems did nothing - but forget that - the principle is the right one and in the UK we have the best 'free on delivery' health in the world  

 

The reason that the Democrats did not introduce it into action under Chuan Leek Pai is that they were too busy sorting out the country after the 1997 financial crash and were limited to what policies they could bring in financially.

[Pridilives]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The reason that the Democrats did not introduce it into action under Chuan Leek Pai is that they were too busy sorting out the country after the 1997 financial crash and were limited to what policies they could bring in financially.

You forget China PM two time. 1997 until 2001- after financial crash. BUT he also PM 1992 until 1995- before crash. So you are WRONG!

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

You forget China PM two time. 1997 until 2001- after financial crash. BUT he also PM 1992 until 1995- before crash. So you are WRONG!

 

How wonderfully arrogant of you to decide that I am wrong.

 

No I didn't forget that CLP was PM during that period but the bill that Thaksin introduced in his first government did come from CLP second period as PM. So in reality, YOU are wrong.

 

You are typical of many posters on TVF. If a poster disagrees with you, then you immediately attack and insult the poster simply because you KNOW that you are right and that everbody else is wrong.

 

Sadly you are incorrect in believeing that you are right all the time.

 

Try doing a little research before getting your fingers typing.

 

It may help.

 

I did know that Chuan Leek Pai was PM then.

 

Look here and you will find lots more PMs too.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Thailand

[Pridilives]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

How wonderfully arrogant of you to decide that I am wrong.

 

No I didn't forget that CLP was PM during that period but the bill that Thaksin introduced in his first government did come from CLP second period as PM. So in reality, YOU are wrong.

 

You are typical of many posters on TVF. If a poster disagrees with you, then you immediately attack and insult the poster simply because you KNOW that you are right and that everbody else is wrong.

 

Sadly you are incorrect in believeing that you are right all the time.

 

Try doing a little research before getting your fingers typing.

 

It may help.

 

I did know that Chuan Leek Pai was PM then.

 

Look here and you will find lots more PMs too.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Prime_Ministers_of_Thailand

I don't decide you wrong. Fact make you wrong.

 

not about disagree or agree is about fact.

i not attack I state fact you wrong.

if cLP want universal health care why not do in 1992 or 1993 or 1994 or 1995.

 

you are wrong for say 1997 crisis stop CLP do health care because he have many opportunity befor crisis and do nothing.

 

it is you incorrect by say I think I right all time. Only fact is right all time and this time fact show you wrong regardless my opinion anything.

 

why CLP not do healthcare before crisis?

 

also where insult in my post. I don't see I type any insult.

 

how does link to list of Thai PMs explain why CLP not do universal care in first time PM? Irrelevant link!!

Edited July 24, 2017 by Pridilives

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 4:57 PM, mark131v said:

True it is very rare but some of the common symptoms are mentioned here and also the description fits from what the hospital has stated

 

What I would say is if I was called or any other NHS paramedic for that matter to those symptoms he would be a very high priority and would be triaged properly from the outset again simple questioning and a simple assessment should have flagged him as a priority case

 

What is reported here is a failure to notice a high priority patient with tragic consequences which may or may not have been treatable and I have had several incidents with Thai hospitals that highlight some really poor practices and a lack of basic skills that we take for granted in the west 

I wouldn't be lauding the NHS. I was a "victim" of the NHS on more than one occasion and there is little to be proud of. Filthy hospitals, uncaring staff, some incompetent, bullying and on and on.

I also worked in the NHS for 10 years and I was not impressed.

 

BTW, the case being discussed is not in the UK, and the system is very different. I have also been a patient in Thailand's hospitals, and it's irrelevant to equate the two.

[billd766]

24 minutes ago, Pridilives said:

I don't decide you wrong. Fact make you wrong.

 

not about disagree or agree is about fact.

i not attack I state fact you wrong.

if cLP want universal health care why not do in 1992 or 1993 or 1994 or 1995.

 

you are wrong for say 1997 crisis stop CLP do health care because he have many opportunity befor crisis and do nothing.

 

it is you incorrect by say I think I right all time. Only fact is right all time and this time fact show you wrong regardless my opinion anything.

 

why CLP not do healthcare before crisis?

 

also where insult in my post. I don't see I type any insult.

 

how does link to list of Thai PMs explain why CLP not do universal care in first time PM? Irrelevant link!!

 

I rest my case.

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, LannaGuy said:

 

Dems did nothing - but forget that - the principle is the right one and in the UK we have the best 'free on delivery' health in the world  

While the NHS may be free, as someone that worked in the NHS I wouldn't be putting "best" in any reference to it.

Also, it is becoming too expensive and I can't understand why it hasn't been reformed at the management level long ago.

Also, from the news about it at the moment, staff, including nurses are deserting it in droves because they have had enough of being treated like .....................

 

While the Thai health services are not the greatest by any means, probably as good as can be expected given the funding and the culture.

[Pridilives]

7 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I rest my case.

Smart decision if not courage for admit wrong

[thaibeachlovers]

18 hours ago, mommysboy said:

 

Blimey! I wouldn't want you around in an emergency!

 

Seriously, we don't know because of less than comprehensive facts, but it appears the boy died in agony in an ER department without being examined.  I don't think anyone sensible is blaming the staff, but rather scotching the idea that all should be assumed to be fine. 

 

I agree no system can be perfect and providing protocols have been followed then an investigation will clear all involved.

 

 

I just went back and checked the OP. It doesn't say that he was in "agony", or that he wasn't examined. Every time I've been to a Thai hospital, I've had my BP checked while waiting, so unless something showed up on that and was ignored, it could be put down to fate that he didn't have more severe symptoms, and had to wait too long, though we don't know if he could have been saved anyway, at this time.

Hospital staff are not imbued with supernatural powers of diagnosis, and people probably expect too much of them.

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I just went back and checked the OP. It doesn't say that he was in "agony", or that he wasn't examined. Every time I've been to a Thai hospital, I've had my BP checked while waiting, so unless something showed up on that and was ignored, it could be put down to fate that he didn't have more severe symptoms, and had to wait too long, though we don't know if he could have been saved anyway, at this time.

Hospital staff are not imbued with supernatural powers of diagnosis, and people probably expect too much of them.

He couldnt sit down!!  How much more painful does it need to be? 

 

And I mean he was not properly examined: that is implied by waiting his turn.

 

You are just tinkering.  Look at it straight on.

 

Nobody is expecting super natural powers: just the ability to see when someone is acutely challenged.

 

It's about reasonableness.

[phetpeter]

I have seen the vdo and photos of the boy. In it he has a drip tube already in place, and possibly had received some pain killer drugs or antibiotic's and was in the waiting room to see if the treatment would work assuming it was believed one of a number of problems that occur around the rainy season, food poisoning, flu etc. In the vdos you can see him being a normal restless teen sitting , standing, walking because he has a pain. His factual expression show no emotions, than normal, his colour and attitude look normal. There is no reason for anyone to believe it is more life threating. Sadly, There no reason to blame anyone. On his first collapse he was attended to quickly, The doctor had no reason to believe something so rare and extreme was happening, If he had had a car , motorbike accident or was involved in a serious fight, then maybe the doctor would have been looking for more serious problems and maybe a early Xray. and if spotted a CAT scan. Alas by then after the first collapse, the countdown was nearing the end! 

[LannaGuy]

On 7/24/2017 at 0:26 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

While the NHS may be free, as someone that worked in the NHS I wouldn't be putting "best" in any reference to it.

Also, it is becoming too expensive and I can't understand why it hasn't been reformed at the management level long ago.

Also, from the news about it at the moment, staff, including nurses are deserting it in droves because they have had enough of being treated like .....................

 

While the Thai health services are not the greatest by any means, probably as good as can be expected given the funding and the culture.

A foolish post. I worked in the NHS at senior management level for 20 years and some NHS haters, like yourself, were saying about people leaving in droves 25 years ago. It's the BEST in the world and like democracy it's not perfect but it's better than any alternative I know of. What level did you work at?  from your post it must have been pretty junior and unrewarding for you to be so aggressive against it. Nursing Assistant maybe?

 

 

[mark131v]

Looks like the young lad died from an aortic rupture after all

 

Rare condition but as stated earlier he would have been triaged as a high priority patient just from the description in the op so I stand by my earlier post that there was a catastrophic failure in this kids treatment or lack thereof, hard to argue that with the poor kid dying on the floor of the waiting room  

 

Seems a lot of people on here believe that good intentions are a suitable alternative for proper triage and training, have to disagree with that....

 

 

[mark131v]

 

On 23/07/2017 at 10:06 AM, Here2008 said:

It would seem you are reading more into a rather poor Tabloid 'report' than is actually there.

 

Your claims of there being a "catastrophic failure" are nothing other than speculation.  

 

Perhaps you have  privileged access to detail not available to others?

States he was in agony and unable to sit down due to the pain....

 

Died on the floor in full view of family and people with call phones, yep I would class that as a catastrophic failure as something significant has been missed that has led to a death

 

https://patient.info/doctor/ruptured-aortic-aneurysm

 

Seems to me simple assessment and proper triage would have made a difference, simply asking about the nature of the pain or asking if it is an agonising ripping or tearing would have been enough to highlight potential life threatening condition which is what triage is all about thought you might have known that...

[mommysboy]

On 26/07/2017 at 2:12 PM, LannaGuy said:

A foolish post. I worked in the NHS at senior management level for 20 years and some NHS haters, like yourself, were saying about people leaving in droves 25 years ago. It's the BEST in the world and like democracy it's not perfect but it's better than any alternative I know of. What level did you work at?  from your post it must have been pretty junior and unrewarding for you to be so aggressive against it. Nursing Assistant maybe?

 

 

I think by your very manner you have made his point to some extent.

[mommysboy]

On 26/07/2017 at 2:06 PM, phetpeter said:

I have seen the vdo and photos of the boy. In it he has a drip tube already in place, and possibly had received some pain killer drugs or antibiotic's and was in the waiting room to see if the treatment would work assuming it was believed one of a number of problems that occur around the rainy season, food poisoning, flu etc. In the vdos you can see him being a normal restless teen sitting , standing, walking because he has a pain. His factual expression show no emotions, than normal, his colour and attitude look normal. There is no reason for anyone to believe it is more life threating. Sadly, There no reason to blame anyone. On his first collapse he was attended to quickly, The doctor had no reason to believe something so rare and extreme was happening, If he had had a car , motorbike accident or was involved in a serious fight, then maybe the doctor would have been looking for more serious problems and maybe a early Xray. and if spotted a CAT scan. Alas by then after the first collapse, the countdown was nearing the end! 

If true, then that clears the matter up and undoubtedly the inquest will not find fault. 

[atyclb]

there are times when all er staff are actively involved caring for critically ill patients and literally overloaded unable to evaluate / bring in / handle more patients. this can include the triage nurse who may be assisting a cpr, or other critical procedure.  since the kid was a walk in an ambulance would not have diverted him to a non overloaded er.  a very tragic case with a tragic outcome.

 

best case scenario had he been taken to a facility equipped to do triple a's in teenagers, surgeon at hand, speedy er diagnosis and shipped to or the mortality rate would be about 50% .

 

the other factor may be the non lateral thinking of triage staff due to thai education - culture but youd hope the er triage use the ones that can see beyond their noses.  some nurses can be robotic at least in the clinics - opd i have spoken with.