2nd exemption by air in 2017 after METV - am I risking it?

[bill38]

Lurker here. Ok, so I've been hearing about the latest crackdown by Thai immigrations. Seen so much conflicting information, it's hard to make sense of what's going on. I've been planning to visit Bangkok for 6 days next month, and I'm a bit concerned they might turn me away when I fly into BKK airport (Suvarnabhumi).

 

So I wanted to run this by you. Here are the facts and my visa history over the past year, in chronological order:

 

* US Citizen

 

* METV acquired at Thai Consulate in the USA on July 2016 -- good for 6 months

 

* Extended the METV for another 2 months by leaving and flying back in day before the expiration date

 

* Last entry expired Feb 2017, flew to Jakarta, Indonesia.

 

* Went to Thai consulate in Jakarta, applied for single entry visa - REJECTED for no reason. No explanation, no red stamp, no nothing. To this day, I do not know why my application was rejected.

 

* Flew back into Thailand on a 30 day exemption (the first of 2017). Passed through immigration without any issues. No questions asked.

 

* Left to Vietnam once the 30 days were up. Been living in HCMC since. TOTAL TIME SPENT IN THAILAND: ~9 MONTHS from July 2016 to Mar 2017

 

Now, I want to go back to Thailand for 6 days -- planning to get my 2nd exemption of the year. I have already booked a $125 flight ticket from HCMC to BKK (Suvarnabhumi) for mid August. This was before I heard about the crackdowns. 

 

So my question is:

 

Am I risking it on a 2nd exemption in one year after a METV + 1 exemption stamp?  Even after being out of Thailand for 5 months?  If I bring:

 

- a booking confirmation of my return ticket to HCMC after a 6 day stay in thailand

- 20k baht in cash (or USD equivalent)

- a hotel booking (is this even necessary?)

 

will I be ok in getting in?

 

Would you attempt the same if you were me?

 

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, bill38 said:

So my question is:

 

Am I risking it on a 2nd exemption in one year after a METV + 1 exemption stamp?  Even after being out of Thailand for 5 months?  If I bring:

 

- a booking confirmation of my return ticket to HCMC after a 6 day stay in thailand

- 20k baht in cash (or USD equivalent)

- a hotel booking (is this even necessary?)

 

will I be ok in getting in?

You should not have a problem on entry with your history.

[BritTim]

You are unlikely to have a problem, but could easily get a tourist visa in HCMC to improve your odds still further.

[JackThompson]

Given recent events at the airports affecting people who had stayed longer-periods in Thailand in the past, I would choose the following course of action:

1. Get a Thai Visa first from a consulate (HCMC is a good choice)
2. Enter by land (but not Poipet/Aranyaprathet)

The odds are that you'd have no problems flying in - not sure if they have a "detain quota" daily or what.  But I'd rather read fewer stories here about, "I was out of Thailand for X Months, and they accused me of coming to work, anyway," as has happened to others.  The folks at the airport may look at 9 months here as a potential "longer-term" stayer, whom they seem to want to keep out.

 

However you choose to enter, because you have spent significant time here in the past, I would carry 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks, proof of where you will be staying, and bank-account proof of where the money you spend over here originates.

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Get a Thai Visa first from a consulate (HCMC is a good choice)

Not worth getting one for a 6 day stay and he has a ticket to prove it on entry.

[JackThompson]

25 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not worth getting one for a 6 day stay and he has a ticket to prove it on entry.

I agree it is logically-insane - but we have yet another "former METV" person just booted when trying to enter visa-exempt, after 2 months out of Thailand, who had the money and a return-ticket.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I agree it is logically-insane - but we have yet another "former METV" person just booted when trying to enter visa-exempt, after 2 months out of Thailand, who had the money and a return-ticket.

Not sure you can compare that one to this one. The other one had been denied entry twice before.

 

Quote

 I was recently rejected from entry into Thailand. In 2016 and early 2017 I had been living in Thailand and had gotten a multiple tourist visa.

 

[JackThompson]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure you can compare that one to this one. The other one had been denied entry twice before.

I think those are two separate statements - #1 - He was recently rejected entry.  #2 - In 2016 and 2017 he had been living in Thailand on an METV.  

 

He later says:

2 hours ago, Califoniadreaming82 said:

I recieved at METV in August 2016 from the US and it lasted me 9 months until I left for the Philippines in May, and havent entered Thailand since then or once had an overstay issue.

 

[Nemesis7]

Relax, one or two odd examples , you dont need to worry.

[ThailandPermanent]

Hmmm. I've been reading a lot of these recent immigration horror stories and there seems to be a common theme:

The METV

Seems to be a real red flag for immigration officers, and it makes sense.

 What other reason would people get these types of visas? The fullmoon party?!

You're basically drawing 'long-termer' on your face with bright red pen

 

[tonray]

3 minutes ago, ThailandPermanent said:

Hmmm. I've been reading a lot of these recent immigration horror stories and there seems to be a common theme:

The METV

Seems to be a real red flag for immigration officers, and it makes sens.

 What other reason would people get these types of visas? The fullmoon party?!

You're basically drawing 'long-termer' on your face with bright red pen

 

But what's the point of giving out long term visas if you can't use them? 

[Cletus]

20 minutes ago, ThailandPermanent said:

Hmmm. I've been reading a lot of these recent immigration horror stories and there seems to be a common theme:

The METV

Seems to be red flag for immigration officers, and it makes sense.

 What other reason would people get these types of visas? The fullmoon party?!

You're basically drawing 'long-termer' on your face with bright red pen

 

There is NO red flag for metv and it does NOT make sense.

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, ThailandPermanent said:

Hmmm. I've been reading a lot of these recent immigration horror stories and there seems to be a common theme:
The METV
Seems to be a real red flag for immigration officers, and it makes sense.
What other reason would people get these types of visas? The fullmoon party?!
You're basically drawing 'long-termer' on your face with bright red pen

The METV is issued by the MFA, along with other "Visas."  I don't think it is a matter of people having had an METV - it is a matter of Immigration seeing that "Person X" stayed in Thailand for an extended period - either with an METV, or consecutive TR Visas, or via Exempts and/or the others in combination.

 

The attitude of a certain clique of Immigration  (at airports and Poipet) is that the rules regarding Tourist Visa use are not restrictive enough, so they will just bend the rules to fit their agenda.  Coming in on an exempt, you don't even have a little bit of cover, from your MFA-issued Visa.

[elviajero]

You should be ok. Definitely a good idea to have a hotel booking.

[bill38]

Thanks all, I appreciate all the responses. 

 

I'm leaning towards taking my chances flying in on an exemption. 

 

But they still can get me on "suspicion of working illegally" even if I bring the above documentation (unlikely as my upcoming trip is only 6 days lol).

 

I have not been home (USA) for over a year, and I already have a Vietnamese visa and a Cambodian stamp in my passport that comes after my Thai METV. They'll know I've been traveling and some IOs might wonder where I get the money to finance my travels.

 

I work part time in my online business registered in the US, and use some of my savings as well. But how would I explain / prove that to a Thai IO? Exactly what documentation do you use to prove that?

 

In the end, if they boot me, I'll just fly back to Vietnam ASAP - or maybe fly to Cambodia as plan B. 

[Califoniadreaming82]

1.  

2 hours ago, bill38 said:

Thanks all, I appreciate all the responses. 

 

I'm leaning towards taking my chances flying in on an exemption. 

 

But they still can get me on "suspicion of working illegally" even if I bring the above documentation (unlikely as my upcoming trip is only 6 days lol).

 

I have not been home (USA) for over a year, and I already have a Vietnamese visa and a Cambodian stamp in my passport that comes after my Thai METV. They'll know I've been traveling and some IOs might wonder where I get the money to finance my travels.

 

I work part time in my online business registered in the US, and use some of my savings as well. But how would I explain / prove that to a Thai IO? Exactly what documentation do you use to prove that?

 

In the end, if they boot me, I'll just fly back to Vietnam ASAP - or maybe fly to Cambodia as plan B. 

Hi bill38,

 

I noticed your thread and thought I would reply. First of all, your situation is kind of similar to mine.

 

Take it from my experience man, I wouldn't risk it.

 

Immigration asked me lots of questions about my past living here and working in Thailand. They ultimately denied me entry and made me stay in a detention center until I flew out of the country.

 

The official reason they gave was not having the 20k in baht but I had that much so it was bullshit.

 

Then again, I have my suspicions it was racism. I still can feel the discomfort when the female immigration official was so badly mispronouncing my first name which is Ahmadullah. She would start her questions saying, “Mr. Ah-allah + (mispronounced last name) ….” I have never been interrogated and felt so helpless to the power she had over me.

 

Anyway, it was a terrible experience and the feelings of racism are hard to shake off. Given your screenname which includes your name Bill, I think you could potentially have a better, less racist experience than mine.

[bill38]

Califoniadreaming82, I read your thread. But it's still not clear to me (or anyone on this forum) what exactly happened. So my questions are to you:

 

1. What did they stamp in your passport as the reason they denied you entry? What does it say exactly?  Post a screenshot.

 

2. Exactly what questions did they ask you?

 

3. Did they ask for extra documentation? If so, what kind?

 

Until you answer these questions, we really don't know what happened with you, despite you saying it was due to racism.

 

[Califoniadreaming82]

22 hours ago, bill38 said:

Califoniadreaming82, I read your thread. But it's still not clear to me (or anyone on this forum) what exactly happened. So my questions are to you:

 

1. What did they stamp in your passport as the reason they denied you entry? What does it say exactly?  Post a screenshot.

 

2. Exactly what questions did they ask you?

 

3. Did they ask for extra documentation? If so, what kind?

 

Until you answer these questions, we really don't know what happened with you, despite you saying it was due to racism.

 

Bill38 the information in the passport is not for public viewing. The stamp they gave me has the IO's name and signature and other numbers that might give me issues down the line. I have provided details already about the questions they asked me about living here and working.

 

Regarding your original post, where you were randomly denied a visa in Jakarta ''without an explanation'', well that does not happen. So I can turn around and call your story suspect also. No need to immediately point fingers at someone who is trying to help and maybe in the same situation as you.

 

[bill38]

If you don't want to post a pic of your stamp, that's fine. Just tell us what exactly it says. You mentioned "other numbers that might give me issues down the line." -- What exactly were those numbers? Please tell us. 

 

And you still haven't told us what questions the IO was asking you. We're not pointing fingers -- we're trying to get answers, damn it. 

 

[Califoniadreaming82]

21 hours ago, bill38 said:

If you don't want to post a pic of your stamp, that's fine. Just tell us what exactly it says. You mentioned "other numbers that might give me issues down the line." -- What exactly were those numbers? Please tell us. 

 

And you still haven't told us what questions the IO was asking you. We're not pointing fingers -- we're trying to get answers, damn it. 

 

Bill 38, my Thai friend says it shows the flight number I came in on, the date, as well as the some other numbers underneath the IO’s signature. It’s something I do not want to screenshot. Even if you knew ‘what exactly the numbers were’, how would that help you?

 

The IO’s were asking why I am in Thailand so much, if I have a wife or girlfriend and even children in Thailand.  They asked what my job is and when I tried to explain I work online that lead to about a dozen additional questions which was very hard to explain to them. They asked about where I was living in Thailand before (specific addresses) and if I had a lease on an apartment. They asked me about my American citizenship and how long my family had been living in the United States (since I have an Afghani name) and if I had any other citizenship. They asked me how I did my banking and if I had a Thai bank account. There were a few other questions about the nature of my visit and if I was bringing anything illegal into the country. But they really went after me about what I was doing in Thailand (work questions) for so long and how I was able to support myself.

[Califoniadreaming82]

Also Bill38 can you explain this in your original post

 

"Went to Thai consulate in Jakarta, applied for single entry visa - REJECTED for no reason. No explanation, no red stamp, no nothing. To this day, I do not know why my application was rejected."- bill38

 

 

 

Can you explain this to me? I can not be the only one who finds this strange. I feel members of thaivisa should be careful to explain the situations they find themselves in to the best of their ability. But this does not make sense. If it was denied there would be a sticker still on the tourist visa... but a big stamp saying void would be there. The employees do all this stuff and put the sticker in the passport, but the consulate guy has to approve it all... so if its a no go he doesn't sign and the VOID stamp gets put in.

 

 I don’t want to say your whole experience was a fabrication but maybe if you think about it better you can give a more complete background on the events that really took place in Jakarta. I want answers too, damn it.

 

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, Califoniadreaming82 said:

Also Bill38 can you explain this in your original post

 

"Went to Thai consulate in Jakarta, applied for single entry visa - REJECTED for no reason. No explanation, no red stamp, no nothing. To this day, I do not know why my application was rejected."- bill38

 

Can you explain this to me? I can not be the only one who finds this strange. I feel members of thaivisa should be careful to explain the situations they find themselves in to the best of their ability. But this does not make sense. If it was denied there would be a sticker still on the tourist visa... but a big stamp saying void would be there. The employees do all this stuff and put the sticker in the passport, but the consulate guy has to approve it all... so if its a no go he doesn't sign and the VOID stamp gets put in.

 

 I don’t want to say your whole experience was a fabrication but maybe if you think about it better you can give a more complete background on the events that really took place in Jakarta. I want answers too, damn it.

The "void" thing is most common when people are forced to use a 3rd Party, such as in India.  I recall one case in Phnom Penh where someone went for a 3rd TR Visa, and it would appear the assistant applied the visa, and the supervisor voided it.  Usually this is related to the payment being made (and kept), but the visa being denied.

But in many cases (Laos, Malaysia, Vietnam), one's application is usually rejected even before one pays, so nothing is placed in the passport.  I would guess Jakarta (not known as friendly) did this.  Bali is a better option in Indonesia - very "by the book," but not unreasonable.

[ubonjoe]

2 hours ago, Califoniadreaming82 said:

Even if you knew ‘what exactly the numbers were’, how would that help you?

On the denial of entry stamp you will see a 12 and then 2 numbers in parentheses after it. For example (2) and (3). The 12 is the section of the immigration act for denial of entry and the others the clauses of it that are the reasons for denial of entry.

You can check the section here. Immigration Act B.E. 2522 English translation

[bill38]

Regarding Jakarta, I went to the consulate to turn in my passport, visa application, flight reservations including onward ticket, and a bank statement. 

 

However, the bank statement was more than a month old, and the lady on the counter had me take a screenshot of my current statement on my phone banking app and emailed it to her (because I did not have access to a printer). 

 

I also used flyonward.com to print out an onward ticket, and rented a 48 hour ticket. But Jakarta takes 3 business days to turn around the application (as I found out after my visit).

 

So one of the following things may have happened in Jakarta:

 

- The visa issuer didn't like that my bank statement printout was more than a month old, and also didn't like the screenshotted bank statement.

- The visa issuer actually checked to confirm the validity of my onward ticket, and found that it had expired, therefore was invalid. 

- The visa issuer never even looked at my application and just decided to hand my passport back with nothing in it.

 

When I went to pick up my passport, they did not open the gate or allow anybody in. The guard just asked my name, went back inside to retrieve my passport, and came back with it. I opened my passport expecting to see a fresh new visa. Nope - nothing. Not even a red stamp warning. Absolutely nothing. 

 

I asked the guard, why isn't there a new visa? He said, "no visa, sorry." "But why? Can I please get an explanation?" He said he'll go back and ask, and went inside again. He came back 5 minutes later, and said "We're not authorized to provide an explanation as to why your application was rejected."

 

A couple days later, I thought I was risking it going back on a 30 day exemption, but I passed through with no questions asked -- AND the guy before me in the SAME line was pulled aside for questioning, by the SAME IO who let me through. 

 

 

[bill38]

3 hours ago, Califoniadreaming82 said:

Bill 38, my Thai friend says it shows the flight number I came in on, the date, as well as the some other numbers underneath the IO’s signature. It’s something I do not want to screenshot. Even if you knew ‘what exactly the numbers were’, how would that help you?

 

The IO’s were asking why I am in Thailand so much, if I have a wife or girlfriend and even children in Thailand.  They asked what my job is and when I tried to explain I work online that lead to about a dozen additional questions which was very hard to explain to them. They asked about where I was living in Thailand before (specific addresses) and if I had a lease on an apartment. They asked me about my American citizenship and how long my family had been living in the United States (since I have an Afghani name) and if I had any other citizenship. They asked me how I did my banking and if I had a Thai bank account. There were a few other questions about the nature of my visit and if I was bringing anything illegal into the country. But they really went after me about what I was doing in Thailand (work questions) for so long and how I was able to support myself.

 

Now that is much more helpful, thank you.

 

The numbers, as ubonjoe said, gives a huge clue as to what the IO was thinking when they pulled you aside. 

 

And since they went after you about "working" in Thailand, now we (and I) know not to say we're working if questioned -- not even an online business. Just say "travel" or "holiday".

 

I gave a more detailed explanation about what happened in Jakarta in the above post.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

I recall one case in Phnom Penh where someone went for a 3rd TR Visa, and it would appear the assistant applied the visa, and the supervisor voided it. 

Sorry - that was an attempt for a 4th in the same passport - not a 3rd.  Nowadays a 'this traveler travels frequently' stamp is more likely - I received one on my 2nd from them.

[darrendsd]

On 7/25/2017 at 0:40 PM, Califoniadreaming82 said:

1.  

Hi bill38,

 

I noticed your thread and thought I would reply. First of all, your situation is kind of similar to mine.

 

Take it from my experience man, I wouldn't risk it.

 

Immigration asked me lots of questions about my past living here and working in Thailand. They ultimately denied me entry and made me stay in a detention center until I flew out of the country.

 

The official reason they gave was not having the 20k in baht but I had that much so it was bullshit.

 

Then again, I have my suspicions it was racism. I still can feel the discomfort when the female immigration official was so badly mispronouncing my first name which is Ahmadullah. She would start her questions saying, “Mr. Ah-allah + (mispronounced last name) ….” I have never been interrogated and felt so helpless to the power she had over me.

 

Anyway, it was a terrible experience and the feelings of racism are hard to shake off. Given your screenname which includes your name Bill, I think you could potentially have a better, less racist experience than mine.

Zzzzzz still playing the racism card are we? 

 

Have you read the other threads about white people being denied entry? I guess not

 

FYI Thais struggle with names from every country in the world

 

Your racism claim really is wrong and is getting boring, take that chip off your shoulder

[BritTim]

36 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

On 7/25/2017 at 0:40 PM, Califoniadreaming82 said:

1.  

Hi bill38,

 

I noticed your thread and thought I would reply. First of all, your situation is kind of similar to mine.

 

Take it from my experience man, I wouldn't risk it.

 

Immigration asked me lots of questions about my past living here and working in Thailand. They ultimately denied me entry and made me stay in a detention center until I flew out of the country.

 

The official reason they gave was not having the 20k in baht but I had that much so it was bullshit.

 

Then again, I have my suspicions it was racism. I still can feel the discomfort when the female immigration official was so badly mispronouncing my first name which is Ahmadullah. She would start her questions saying, “Mr. Ah-allah + (mispronounced last name) ….” I have never been interrogated and felt so helpless to the power she had over me.

 

Anyway, it was a terrible experience and the feelings of racism are hard to shake off. Given your screenname which includes your name Bill, I think you could potentially have a better, less racist experience than mine.

Zzzzzz still playing the racism card are we? 

 

Have you read the other threads about white people being denied entry? I guess not

 

FYI Thais struggle with names from every country in the world

 

Your racism claim really is wrong and is getting boring, take that chip off your shoulder

I feel motivated to respond to this to try to present a balanced perspective.

 

Firstly, the existence of racism in the world is not a myth. It exists to a greater or lesser degree in every country in the world, and is, indeed, an inherited part of our genetic makeup as humans. It is possible, indeed likely, that this might sometimes be a contributing factor in the way some immigration officers treat travelers. If so, based on my experience, bias in Thailand against those with darker skins is more likely than against those with whiter skins (unlike in most black African countries where the reverse is true).

 

Does this mean the poster was discriminated against based on his appearance and name? There is no way to tell. It may have contributed, but most likely did not, regardless of the fact (that I tend to believe) that the conversation between him and the immigration official was uncomfortable, possibly based on a natural antipathy.

 

In cases such as this, I would urge people to keep an open mind. It is difficult to know what effect nationality, age, racial characteristics, dress and the like have on the actions of individual immigration officials. We would like to believe they act objectively in all situations, but the reality is that, some portion of the time, they almost certainly do not.

[thaitero]

California Dreamer was suspected for working while in Thailand, He admitted that, No need to speculate more. Easy case this one..

[darrendsd]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I feel motivated to respond to this to try to present a balanced perspective.

 

Firstly, the existence of racism in the world is not a myth. It exists to a greater or lesser degree in every country in the world, and is, indeed, an inherited part of our genetic makeup as humans. It is possible, indeed likely, that this might sometimes be a contributing factor in the way some immigration officers treat travelers. If so, based on my experience, bias in Thailand against those with darker skins is more likely than against those with whiter skins (unlike in most black African countries where the reverse is true).

 

Does this mean the poster was discriminated against based on his appearance and name? There is no way to tell. It may have contributed, but most likely did not, regardless of the fact (that I tend to believe) that the conversation between him and the immigration official was uncomfortable, possibly based on a natural antipathy.

 

In cases such as this, I would urge people to keep an open mind. It is difficult to know what effect nationality, age, racial characteristics, dress and the like have on the actions of individual immigration officials. We would like to believe they act objectively in all situations, but the reality is that, some portion of the time, they almost certainly do not.

If only people of colour were being denied of course it would be racism

 

However plenty of white people are being denied, something he refuses to see, therefore his claim of racism is based only in his own mind and the chip on his shoulder

 

He stupidly admitted to working here, seriously how stupid can you be to admit it and then comes on here wondering why he was denied and claiming racism? Laughable