Open to comments regarding multiple TR 60 days visas.

[dallen52]

New here. But not new to Thailand.

I went to Jomtien immigration yesterday and was not allowed a 30 day extend on my 60 day TR visa.

With combinations of UK and Australia passports I have 8 / 60 visas over the last 12 months.

Plus return to the UK and oz.

I know it's sounding like a no no.

But the immigration officers approach leaves me perplexed.

 

An in room meeting and discussion.

An explanation that I possibly should not have been given these.

But I was, plus two extensions.

 

The wash up is.

30 day stamp placed in my passport and it carries on from the 60 days I currently have.

However.

It was made clear that I have not been denied.

And a comment is on the computer.

It says I have 7 days grace after day 27/7 and then I have to leave Thailand.

After day 3/08 I will be fined 500 each day as overstay when I leave Thailand.

And the passport will be noted accordingly..

 

I think of myself as pretty educated, I used to work here years ago on an APEC card at Rayong.

 

But I have to ask <deleted>.?

Was she being nice to me?

After realising they had given 8 60 TR in just over a year?.

 

Fortunately I can leave.

She said 90 days should be ok and then return.

 

(My circumstances are three months short of applying for the Australian age pension. And you have to be in Australia to put the application in)

So I'm in limbo until the age pension sorted out and portability to Thailand/UK is sorted.

 

I'm just a little baffled at the end result and how they worked it out.?

 

 

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[Essecola]

It doesn't make sense. A 60 day single entry tourist visa can be extended for 30 days. And how does "8 60" happen? Is that 8 x 60 days or is something missing?    8  x  60 would be 480 days which is well over a year. Best of luck anyway. 

[dallen52]

Yes.
I wasn't aware of a limit on 60 day tourist visas.

I think it's a bit of face saving ?
If such a thing exists in the LOS.
They show me on the computer screen the UK issued and the Australian issued.
And quite correct in saying that it's equal to 480 days of stay.
(Because I have been out on family issues and got another TR 60 days before the others would have expired, if I had stayed the full 60 days..)

Anyhow.
Just thought it was interesting reading.

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[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

The wash up is.

30 day stamp placed in my passport and it carries on from the 60 days I currently have.

However.

It was made clear that I have not been denied.

And a comment is on the computer.

It says I have 7 days grace after day 27/7 and then I have to leave Thailand.

After day 3/08 I will be fined 500 each day as overstay when I leave Thailand.

And the passport will be noted accordingly..

I don't understand what you wrote, There is no 7 days grace period.

What date does your extension stamp have on it and what was your admitted until date on your entry stamp.

[Phuket Man]

If your application is refused you are given 7 days to leave the country.

[midas]

If you think of yourself as being pretty educated I'm wondering why you have even been bothering with tourist visas and visa extensions all this time at your age?

You must have held a pretty senior post in which every job you had to have been issued with an Apec travel card and I am assuming you would have some assets?

If you are near Australian retirement age it means you are almost 65 years old. Why wouldn't you be under a retirement extension in Thailand and simply pay 3800 baht for a multiple re-entry permit which would be substantially less than all the individual tourist visas you have paid for and 30 day extensions?

 

And you also say " So I'm in limbo until the age pension sorted out and portability to Thailand/UK is sorted.". The Australian pension is little more than $21,000 a year (they don't call it a dog food pension for no reason) so how do you hope to qualify to stay here on that alone?

 

 

Edited July 25, 2017 by midas

[dallen52]

Ah yes.
One always runs the gauntlet of a quick witted member, or possibly a vitriolic tongue or two.

APEC card was and still is available, if you can show a need. 5 years life and 90 days entry to 20 countries.
$200.
I was on the Ranger/BT50 Programme at Rayong and Ford Asia Pacific China and south Africa.
But money is money.
Hence my desire to secure the possible $23,000 basic pension in a few months time.
It beats the UK £116 I think.

I put 42 years of work and National service into oz.
So irrespective of the personal bank situation I will be drawing back some of the contribution made.
Unlike the UK where you pay a stamp entitlement Oz is working life of 35 years.

Getting off subject.
I just wanted to share what I thought was a slightly crazy outcome.

The passport is stamped 30 days.
No declined and seven days.
But I was told it's on the computer that I have seven days from 27/07.
Then I'm going to be hit the daily rate when I do leave..

It's not going to affect me greatly.
But I just cannot understand why they have done this.?

OK.
No mark against me on the passport.
I don't see why there should be anyway?
They gave me the visas.
But it's like they are making it up as they go.
* A senior level friend at Jomtien said to me there is no limit on the number of times you can have 60 day TR visa?

I will play by their rules.
And once the pension is sorted.
FYI.(You have to be in Australia to put the application in, and you have to get a certificate of portability to have it paid out of the country).


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[midas]

40 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Ah yes.
One always runs the gauntlet of a quick witted member, or possibly a vitriolic tongue or two.

APEC card was and still is available, if you can show a need. 5 years life and 90 days entry to 20 countries.
$200.
I was on the Ranger/BT50 Programme at Rayong and Ford Asia Pacific China and south Africa.
But money is money.
Hence my desire to secure the possible $23,000 basic pension in a few months time.
It beats the UK £116 I think.

I put 42 years of work and National service into oz.
So irrespective of the personal bank situation I will be drawing back some of the contribution made.
Unlike the UK where you pay a stamp entitlement Oz is working life of 35 years.

Getting off subject.
I just wanted to share what I thought was a slightly crazy outcome.

The passport is stamped 30 days.
No declined and seven days.
But I was told it's on the computer that I have seven days from 27/07.
Then I'm going to be hit the daily rate when I do leave..

It's not going to affect me greatly.
But I just cannot understand why they have done this.?

OK.
No mark against me on the passport.
I don't see why there should be anyway?
They gave me the visas.
But it's like they are making it up as they go.
* A senior level friend at Jomtien said to me there is no limit on the number of times you can have 60 day TR visa?

I will play by their rules.
And once the pension is sorted.
FYI.(You have to be in Australia to put the application in, and you have to get a certificate of portability to have it paid out of the country).


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" You have to be in Australia to put the application in, and you have to get a certificate of portability to have it paid out of the country "

 

but if you have 8 / 60 visas over the last 12 months how are you going to overcome the two-year residency rule regarding a pension application that applies to those who have been residing outside of Australia and return to claim an age pension?  

 

 

[Asiantravel]

4 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Yes.
I wasn't aware of a limit on 60 day tourist visas.

I think it's a bit of face saving ?
If such a thing exists in the LOS.
They show me on the computer screen the UK issued and the Australian issued.
And quite correct in saying that it's equal to 480 days of stay.
(Because I have been out on family issues and got another TR 60 days before the others would have expired, if I had stayed the full 60 days..)

Anyhow.
Just thought it was interesting reading.

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it seems strange how the consulate's/embassies issued so many visa's to you without putting some kind of mark on your passport( s ) and it also seems strange that immigration didn't make some remark to you about this when you re-entered the country each time  because  surely they share the same computer data as in Jomtien?

[dallen52]

I just thought I would add another one to the myriad of possibilities we encounter in this wonderful land.

Never been queried.
Even had a couple of VW thrown in when I have picked the good lady up and we headed to Perth.

You have to list the last three entries on your visa application in Australia.

One TR was issued London for free at the start of the year.
Just pay the postage.

Anyhow.
Such is life...
I will be at the airport evening of the 2nd.Aug.
Not even contemplating the 500 a day fines.

And yes once the pension is sorted.
I will be looking at a longer stay option.
Have the bank account and Thai drivers license.

It's a hard one to explain.
But once I know that there's a pension available.
The longer stay options will be put into practice.





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[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, dallen52 said:

The passport is stamped 30 days.
No declined and seven days.
But I was told it's on the computer that I have seven days from 27/07.
Then I'm going to be hit the daily rate when I do leave..

I don't see how you can be fined for overstaying if you leave by the date that immigration stamped in your passport.  A new "verbal date" stored only in "the computer" which overrides the stamp-date? 

 

5 hours ago, dallen52 said:

And a comment is on the computer.

It says I have 7 days grace after day 27/7 and then I have to leave Thailand.

After day 3/08 I will be fined 500 each day as overstay when I leave Thailand.

And the passport will be noted accordingly..

If 7-days 'grace' - then that would start from the end of your current-stay.  Is the end of your permitted stay in the TR visa you were extending July 27 ? 

Please confirm what the "extension of stay permitted up to:" date on the extension-stamp you just received at Jomtien says, exactly.

[thaitero]

Can someone summarize if we have here something for other members? 

 

[YetAnother]

the experts here that know much more than i do about the technical details can answer your questions (likely better than the thai can) but i can say that you are into a headwind that is the 'new thai immigration'; there was a quote perhaps a year or two back from an immigration officer in the northeast i believe; she said 'this is no longer the land of smiles'; ouch

[midas]

17 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I don't see how you can be fined for overstaying if you leave by the date that immigration stamped in your passport.  A new "verbal date" stored only in "the computer" which overrides the stamp-date? 

 

If 7-days 'grace' - then that would start from the end of your current-stay.  Is the end of your permitted stay in the TR visa you were extending July 27 ? 

Please confirm what the "extension of stay permitted up to:" date on the extension-stamp you just received at Jomtien says, exactly.

 

same here - so this is suggesting nothing in writing or in your passport means anything in Thailand anymore?

 

[dallen52]

They took me in the room at the side of counter one.
No rubber hoses or koshes.

They explained that I have too many TR. Entries in a one year period.
She said in good English that she had given me the full entitlement of 30 days.
Stamped on the visa information etc.
30 days from day 27 July.
But then said the passport will not be marked as refused.
But the computer has been amended to say seven days from July 27.
And if I stay beyond that, I will incur a 500 baht fine for each day.
Up to me...

Yes I can see the August 26th stamp.
But computer says No.
Haha

It's farcical to say the least.
And I'm not going to start testing the system and see who has the biggest set of xxxxx.
I'm sure on will lose.

As pointed out.
It simply should not have happened.
But it has.

So whatever cryptic Thai notes are sitting on the immigration computer hopefully won't affect me.
If I leave day 3..August.
Which I can do.
And will do.

As far as saying 90 days before I can get a visa to return???

Whose to say I can't go in the consulate in Melbourne next week and apply again?

I'm not legally versed on the Thai immigration policy and procedures.
Or the at whim changes they constantly make.

I just wanted to share with your good people.

I can certainly share snaps of all this if anyone is interested .
Off line.
You couldn't make it up.
Only in Thailand.

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[JackThompson]

So, they gave you a 30-day extension, but said you really only have 7 "in the computer"?  If you sent pics, it would only be of an ordinary 30-day extension.  We only have your 9-post history as "credibility" on the computer story (sorry, but it's true).

 

If that happened to me, I would test it - at least by 2 days (a small price to pay to call the bluff).    Then I would send pics of the 2-day overstay stamp, next to the 30 day extension which was still running.

[midas]

11 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

So, they gave you a 30-day extension, but said you really only have 7 "in the computer"?  If you sent pics, it would only be of an ordinary 30-day extension.  We only have your 9-post history as "credibility" on the computer story (sorry, but it's true).

 

If that happened to me, I would test it - at least by 2 days (a small price to pay to call the bluff).    Then I would send pics of the 2-day overstay stamp, next to the 30 day extension which was still running.

I can think of more than just a few journalists (some who have left Thailand in disgust) who would love the opportunity to publish such a picture

[dallen52]

Have to agree with you all.
But I secured a flight change for day 3 on a Thai discount economy and the $200 extra is a lot less than a few days later flight options back to Melbourne.
(18,000 baht.)
Starts to be an expensive test of the system.

Don't really know what to put it down to?
It does highlight that some systems actually interlink on passport data.
It also highlights how little checks are done before the visa is issued.

Thanks for your responses but I think I will let it ride.

I'm sure some other believe it or not situation will arise before too long.
This is Thailand.

And my next return is hopefully the retirement visa one.


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[JackThompson]

38 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

... It also highlights how little checks are done before the visa is issued. ...

There is nothing to check, because there is no legal limit to the number of tourist-visas one can use - in a row, in a year, etc.  The only limits are per-consulate rules, as they can add their own particular restrictions. 

 

If you had wanted to make a stink at immigration, you could have asked them to show you the law / ministerial order limiting how many TR Visas you can have.  But as you intend to be here long-term (via retirement), that would probably have been a bad idea.

[ubonjoe]

11 hours ago, dallen52 said:

Yes I can see the August 26th stamp.
But computer says No.
Haha

It's farcical to say the least.

I would say something stronger than farcical. It sounds like total BS to me.

The stamp in your passport it what counts. The cannot put anything in the computer that changes that.

11 hours ago, dallen52 said:

As far as saying 90 days before I can get a visa to return???

More BS.

[BuckBee]

I would imagine some higher officer took a disliking to your passport with all its setv visas and this 30day extension and farcical episode that occurred was way of hopefully resolving it for those who dealt with the extension and stamped it in passport .

Anything can happen here and with current extra concerns on people with lot of setv mixed with usual varying ways of interpreting the rules, thai face and lack of logic you get these whacky scenarios pop up :-S

I would be pretty sure you could stay to end of that 30day extension and everything you told by immi lady total fantasy . The rubbish I heard from immigration over the years has been shocking, if I had taken it as gospel I would of probably been blacklisted or in detention centre lol  .  

[dallen52]

I like your thinking.

I was thinking about trying to chat with the official I know there.

But as said, I've gone with the flow.

And I'm sure she will not counter anything that has been done or said.

I didn't as said by others think that there was a limit on 60 day TR visas.

 

Although I did have a thought it was 6 in 180 days? At one time.

 

The whole process can be hairy fairy.

In Melbourne they say have you got your flight itinerary.

 

But on the form it clearly says, "don't book until visa approved".

 

The way it was said sounded like they believed I should not have been given these.

The response was, as to say we will not deny you, and stamp seven days to leave.

 

But we put on computer that you have 7 days from day 27/ 07.

And up to me if I stay longer than this.

And pay daily penalty.

 

Anyway as already said.

I will depart day 3.

It's not the end of the world.

I do need to get to Oz, just wasn't expecting this soon.

 

And yes as also said.

I'm a newbie to posting.

 

I read the site for years.

Invaluable reference site.

But I don't have Street credibility yet . lol

 

Having worked and holidays and community work here over the years all over the place I've possibly seen most things.

But this was certainly worth mentioning it thought.?

 

 * I tried to attach a shot of the visas.

Any clues as to doing?

If anyone is interested.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dallen52]

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[dallen52]

And throw in the odd visa waiver.

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[JackThompson]

48 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Although I did have a thought it was 6 in 180 days? At one time.

There was a 90-day in 180 days on "Visa Exempt" entries at one time, but that was overridden by a later order (15 days only at land borders), which was then updated by yet another order (30 days for G7 at land-borders), which was then overridden by yet another order (2 land-border crossings max per calendar year) all having ONLY to do with Visa-Exempt entries - NOT Tourist Visa entries.  There is now, nor has there ever been, a rule in place limiting how many "tourist days" can be spent in Thailand on Tourist Visas, nor how many Tourist Visas can be issued in a specified period of time. 

 

48 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Read the sute for years.
Invaluable reference site.
But I don't have Street credibility yet . lol

As far-fetched as your story sounds, and to spite no long posting-history, I do not dismiss your report out-of-hand.  There was at least one report (awhile back - I cannot find it) of someone being questioned on entry, stating they intend to leave on X-Date, and "promising" to leave by a date earlier than the "permitted stay" stamped in their passport. 

 

There are some in Immigration who evidently think their *should* be a limit, and seem to be trying to create one via Immigration-policy, because they cannot get it through by law.  I wish we could hear the conversations / debate on this issue, occurring behind the scenes.

[dallen52]

Thank you.

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