Proposed law would allow trans Thais to legally change gender

[dfdgfdfdgs]

The ID card was the only way in some cases to be 100% sure if the girl you were seeing/talking to on an app/about to sleep with, was definitely a girl.

 

If that changes and they've already had surgery, then you've only the voice to rely on, and some new guys to south east asia might not be clued up on that.

 

I've met a girl who was an actual girl who had a voice a bit like a ladyboy.  I'm yet to meet a ladyboy who has a voice like a girl.

[binjalin]

2 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

i am female and i live my dreams in the Land of Smiles-

and who, what, where, when, how or why I am is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, 

but ONE thing i am NOT is uninformed...

another thing i am NOT is lacking in compassion and understanding

Yes, my dear, we know you are perfect and 'loved' because you tell us regularly. 

[jaywalker]

1 minute ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

The ID card was the only way in some cases to be 100% sure if the girl you were seeing/talking to on an app/about to sleep with, was definitely a girl.

 

If that changes and they've already had surgery, then you've only the voice to rely on, and some new guys to south east asia might not be clued up on that.

 

I've met a girl who was an actual girl who had a voice a bit like a ladyboy.  I'm yet to meet a ladyboy who has a voice like a girl.

Son, you need me to take you for a trip around Nana Plaza to show you the ropes.

[jaywalker]

We have Rachel Maddow on this commenting thread I think?

 

 

Edited July 27, 2017 by jaywalker

[dfdgfdfdgs]

26 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

Son, you need me to take you for a trip around Nana Plaza to show you the ropes.

 

I have nightmares about that place.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

with all due resepct, that is completely false, virtually NO true trans 'change back later in life'...

somebody is either born trans or they aren't, it is not just a choice or decision or a lifestyle!!!

chromosones are not just XX or XY, and many trans do NOT have normal chromosones,

also male to female trans have often been shown to have same brain wiring as females, not males...

and if you 'never see any older Trans' i suggest that it is because you have:

1) never looked  [or]   2) not known many trans    

[or]  3) not known how to tell (most likely, especially considering that the longer one has been living as their  true self, the harder it is to discern that they have ever been anything but what they appear)

Edited 55 minutes ago by jenifer d 
sentence formatting

 

I'd hate to see that post before the 'sentence formatting'.

[jenifer d]

41 minutes ago, jaywalker said:

I could care less how somebody else lives their life.

 

Now please tell them to stop harassing/groping and stealing? If they want to be treated normally then act like a human should act.

 

Sorry they have a bad rap, but it's been self inflicted over the years.

 

 

all over the world, prostitutes cheat people and steal things, and the same in Pattaya, wherever there are poor people who are essentially forced into sex work by dint of lack of education or other gainful employment

there will be thefts and such; this is compounded for trans as in many places they are not allowed to have 'normal' employment- and many men DO love to indulge their bisexual side by having romp w/katoey...

---

to tar ALL the members of ANY group due to the bad actions of a few is unfair and specious...

there are 10's of thousands of katoey throughout Thailand, and the vast majority are NOT thieves; one is more likely to be cheated by the bar they're drinking in and/or the bargirl they're hiring for sex (or marrying while thinking that they love the foreigner for anything but their money)

[jenifer d]

47 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

The ID card was the only way in some cases to be 100% sure if the girl you were seeing/talking to on an app/about to sleep with, was definitely a girl.

 

If that changes and they've already had surgery, then you've only the voice to rely on, and some new guys to south east asia might not be clued up on that.

 

I've met a girl who was an actual girl who had a voice a bit like a ladyboy.  I'm yet to meet a ladyboy who has a voice like a girl.

really? i know HUNDREDS of katoey with a voice exactly like a woman...

my mom was 6' tall and had a husky, nonfeminine voice, and i am 6 '4" and have a slightly more feminine voice than her- she always got accused of being trans, as do i...

and if they've already had surgery, then what's the issue? there is a vagina and not a penis between the legs, so they DEFINITELY are a GIRL...

[jenifer d]

50 minutes ago, binjalin said:

Yes, my dear, we know you are perfect and 'loved' because you tell us regularly. 

i NEVER claim to be perfect, but i  AM loved, and discover daily from my Thai friends and neighbors the TRUE meaning of community and consideration and karma and TRUTH 

[dfdgfdfdgs]

The rational, objective side of our brain wants to believe that not all katoeys are bad.  But (speaking as a white male living along sukhumvit) our eyes and experiences tell us otherwise, but that's probably because the bad ones seek us out, and we never/rarely cross paths with the good ones, so our judgement is clouded and the 'confirmation bias' thing comes into play.

 

The truth is probably that the percentage of bad katoeys is higher than the percentage of bad men and women.  How much higher, who knows.  So why is this?  Something to do with the hormone drugs they're all on, maybe.  Any maybe they're different to most Thais in the sense that most Thais care quite a lot what other people think about them, whereas ladyboys have probably been conditioned/learnt to care less, so are more likely to be involved in petty crime, harassment, inappropriate advances etc, because the societal ramifications are less important to them.

[jenifer d]

3 minutes ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

 

The truth is probably that the percentage of bad katoeys is higher than the percentage of bad men and women.  How much higher, who knows.  So why is this?  Something to do with the hormone drugs they're all on, maybe.  Any maybe they're different to most Thais in the sense that most Thais care quite a lot what other people think about them, whereas ladyboys have probably been conditioned/learnt to care less, so are more likely to be involved in petty crime, harassment, inappropriate advances etc, because the societal ramifications are less important to them.

i have known, and continue to know, hundreds, maybe thousands, of katoeys, 

the percentage of "bad katoeys" is NO DIFFERENT than the percentage of "bad men and women", maybe even less,

since in many places katoey have to try extra hard to surmount the considerable prejusdice against them

(as has been shown regularly in this very forum)

[dfdgfdfdgs]

5 minutes ago, jenifer d said:

really? i know HUNDREDS of katoey with a voice exactly like a woman...

my mom was 6' tall and had a husky, nonfeminine voice, and i am 6 '4" and have a slightly more feminine voice than her- she always got accused of being trans, as do i...

and if they've already had surgery, then what's the issue? there is a vagina and not a penis between the legs, so they DEFINITELY are a GIRL...

 

All ladyboys have the same camp/high-pitched rasp - 'husky' as you put it, in my experience.  If you know hundreds that don't, there should be some 'celebrity' ladyboys that don't have this kind of voice, that you can point me in the direction of on youtube?

 

Cutting your dick off doesn't make you a girl, that's nonsensical in the same way that cutting the ears off a llama turns it into a large goat.

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

All ladyboys have the same camp/high-pitched rasp - 'husky' as you put it, in my experience.  If you know hundreds that don't, there should be some 'celebrity' ladyboys that don't have this kind of voice, that you can point me in the direction of on youtube?

 

Cutting your dick off doesn't make you a girl, that's nonsensical in the same way that cutting the ears off a llama turns it into a large goat.

i said that i know hundreds, maybe thousands of katoeys, and that the percentage of "bad" ones is no different than that of general population

the dick is NOT cut off; it is inverted and almost all parts are utilized- and as for your statement of "not making you a girl", well, maybe you should actually READ some of the VOLUMINOUS research re same instead of spouting off opininions upon things that you really know nothing about except for your own prejudices and religious/social conditioning...

in my experience, most trans do NOT have a "camp/high-pitched rasp"- and i reiterate, i have known- quite well- MANY more than ANY of you who are responding here...

i have dozens of katoey friends on our island alone, plus countless others in every province i've visited here (38 so far, and counting) and hundreds more from my 50+ years in USA

[dfdgfdfdgs]

So find one on youtube and link me to it.  If there are thousands this should be easy for you.

 

I don't need to read anything to know that having your dick cut off, sorry 'inverted', does not make you female.  I've no doubt you can find a scientist somewhere whose definition of female differs to mine.  A male cannot become a female and a female cannot become a male.  In mind and body maybe, but not genetically.

[Jingthing]

Anyway hope they make this civilized and humane step towards improving civil rights in Thailand.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

They can identify with whatever they like, it's none of my business, but their legal documents should remain as they were born, because that is what they are.  If you are allowed to legally lie on a government document regarding your gender, then when will I be allowed to identify as klingon, pokemon, or the reincarnation of Jesus?

 

I'm all for tolerance and acceptance and integration without discrimination, but I'm not for falsifying identity documents.

[jaywalker]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

all over the world, prostitutes cheat people and steal things, and the same in Pattaya, wherever there are poor people who are essentially forced into sex work by dint of lack of education or other gainful employment

there will be thefts and such; this is compounded for trans as in many places they are not allowed to have 'normal' employment- and many men DO love to indulge their bisexual side by having romp w/katoey...

---

to tar ALL the members of ANY group due to the bad actions of a few is unfair and specious...

there are 10's of thousands of katoey throughout Thailand, and the vast majority are NOT thieves; one is more likely to be cheated by the bar they're drinking in and/or the bargirl they're hiring for sex (or marrying while thinking that they love the foreigner for anything but their money)

They sure do make the headlines though.

 

 

[jaywalker]

1 hour ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

 

I have nightmares about that place.

I have mixed dreams about it.

 

Have not been there in years.

 

-------------

 

A couple Limey buddy's were in town & we went out. One started complaining about jet-lag...said he was was going back to his hotel.

 

Fair enough. The other guy and I started a bar trawl, when I came up with the bright idea of stopping into a Katoey bar. Hell, I was just curious, figured it was good for a beer.

 

We went in, & there was our "jet-lagged" buddy with two katoeya on his lap!

 

Neither of us cared, but the look on his face when he saw us was beyond hilarious!!!

 

We were "On the piss" but he was getting down & dirty with them!

[losworld]

11 hours ago, jenifer d said:

with all due resepct, that is completely false, virtually NO true trans 'change back later in life'...

somebody is either born trans or they aren't, it is not just a choice or decision or a lifestyle!!!

chromosones are not just XX or XY, and many trans do NOT have normal chromosones,

also male to female trans have often been shown to have same brain wiring as females, not males...

and if you 'never see any older Trans' i suggest that it is because you have:

1) never looked  [or]   2) not known many trans    

[or]  3) not known how to tell (most likely, especially considering that the longer one has been living as their  true self, the harder it is to discern that they have ever been anything but what they appear)

Not proven.  I personally believe there may be biological factors but certainly sociological plays a large role particularly in the child phase.

[binjalin]

10 hours ago, jenifer d said:

i NEVER claim to be perfect, but i  AM loved, and discover daily from my Thai friends and neighbors the TRUE meaning of community and consideration and karma and TRUTH 

Of course you are we all LOVE you. Feel better now? 

[Jingthing]

Of course you are we all LOVE you. Feel better now? 

Sounds suspiciously like love the sinner hate the sin rhetoric.

[JLCrab]

On 7/27/2017 at 11:51 AM, jenifer d said:

i said that i know hundreds, maybe thousands of katoeys <snip>

i have dozens of katoey friends on our island alone, plus countless others in every province i've visited here <snip2>

Countless? So maybe this would help --

 

Edited August 8, 2017 by JLCrab

[dcnx]

On 7/26/2017 at 2:31 PM, binjalin said:

I'm baffled because I never see any older Trans and many change 'back' later in life. Also DNA doesn't change so I can't see how gender can change either. 

The suicide rate for trans people is incredibly high.

[dcnx]

On 7/27/2017 at 10:23 AM, jenifer d said:

with all due resepct, that is completely false, virtually NO true trans 'change back later in life'...

somebody is either born trans or they aren't, it is not just a choice or decision or a lifestyle!!!

chromosones are not just XX or XY, and many trans do NOT have normal chromosones,

also male to female trans have often been shown to have same brain wiring as females, not males...

and if you 'never see any older Trans' i suggest that it is because you have:

1) never looked  [or]   2) not known many trans    

[or]  3) not known how to tell (most likely, especially considering that the longer one has been living as their  true self, the harder it is to discern that they have ever been anything but what they appear)

There was a guy on one tv shows here who used to think he was a woman. He got hit in the head during an auto accident. When he woke up he was a man again.

 

 

 

 

[jenifer d]

2 hours ago, dcnx said:

There was a guy on one tv shows here who used to think he was a woman. He got hit in the head during an auto accident. When he woke up he was a man again.

 

 

 

 

so because that happened to ONE individual, it contradicts FACTS???

re your other recent comment, one reason for the high attempted suicide rate is the fact that

most western societies vehemently shun/discriminate against/assault/murder trans-

unlike Thailand, here it's largely western expats who discriminate/assault/slam/castigate them

[ldiablo72]

There are only 2 genders, Full stop!

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, ldiablo72 said:

There are only 2 genders, Full stop!

For starters anyway ... 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

so because that happened to ONE individual, it contradicts FACTS???

re your other recent comment, one reason for the high attempted suicide rate is the fact that

most western societies vehemently shun/discriminate against/assault/murder trans-

unlike Thailand, here it's largely western expats who discriminate/assault/slam/castigate them

Good points but I don't really think Thailand is quite the "paradise" for transgender people that many people think. Families still reject transgender relatives and they are pressured to stay in a limited number of not great professions.