Racism and Bigotry Among Thailand Expats

[observer90210]

An excellent issue raised by the OP.

 

Hate, racism, white supremacists, bigotry that overflows to rude..

 

All a matter of inner frustrations, lack of confidence, weak character, no self-esteem and/or low education...

 

 

[jenifer d]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Your admission of embracing a self-determined course of open-minded assimilation and learning of everything Thai hasn't completely depleted your ability to label others.

 

That's a good sign.

 

Carry on.

how have i labeled others except to call things as they truly are???

i can guarantee that most Thais feel the same way as i do...

no matter where i would go to live that was not originally the country of my birth,

i would learn the language and the culture as quickly as possible, otherwise i would just be a colonist

[The manic]

16 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Why does this require specific examples? Racist is racist, full stop. And you are taking this thread off track. I am talking about extreme racist and bigoted expats living in Thailand, not elsewhere and not swaying this thread towards politics abroad.

 

I have met several expats here who appear to be extreme right wingers. Yet, as one poster has mentioned, I`ve met several expat men who are in relationships or married to Thais in Thailand, some with children, that for reasons I don`t understand seem to have made Thais exempt from their superioristic points of view. Maybe it`s because it suits them to do so? But these people do hold a type of arrogance bringing their old prejudices over to Thailand that I don`t like.

 

 

It matters because the term racist is used by generation pantywaist to label anyone who does not believe in open borders; who does not celebrate diversity; does not believe multiculturalism is beneficial;  is conerned by Islamic fascism, has witnessed the ethnic cleansing of inner city and the establishment of ghettoes, opposes the establishment of sharia compliance in Europe; is worried by uncontrolled, mass illegal immigration etc. That's why we moved here.  Calling us racist is meaningless.. 

[GreasyFingers]

38 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

An excellent issue raised by the OP.

 

Hate, racism, white supremacists, bigotry that overflows to rude..

 

All a matter of inner frustrations, lack of confidence, weak character, no self-esteem and/or low education...

 

 

I have none of those but am still a racist. you need to think before you write.

[fordguy61mi]

19 hours ago, brewsterbudgen said:

I think places like Pattaya tend to attract a disproportionately high number of people like that. I find that in Bangkok there are many open-minded, liberal types, although maybe that's just the company I mix in!

Funny you associate being liberal with being open-minded because liberals are the  most intolerant and closed-minded people around. Just look at them shutting down free speech in America at colleges. They are exactly like they accuse conservatives to be. Intolerant and pro-hate speech and anti- free speech.

Edited July 27, 2017 by fordguy61mi

[jeab1980]

All i can add, is you must socialise in some very deep mysterious circles. In all my time here in social and work foriegners groups i have never come across anything "like""lot of it I can compare to the Nazi rhetoric of WW2,"

very very worrying circles you inhabit.

[brewsterbudgen]

It's naive to equate being liberal with an open mind.  Most liberals I know have a very closed mind and would never shift their thinking even when presented with facts or opposing information.

Sounds like conservatives to me! Maybe we have a different understanding of "liberal". Mine is in the fine tradition of the British Liberals, not the American progressives.

[observer90210]

30 minutes ago, GreasyFingers said:

I have none of those but am still a racist. you need to think before you write.

No need to convince me. Maybe you just need to convince yourself that you are none of what cited in post no. 121

[CharlieH]

Posts removed.

Stop the personal remarks please.

 

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, jenifer d said:

you're quite right,  i shouldn't have responded to his obvious attack, i will delete

 

2 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

Posts removed.

Stop the personal remarks please.

 

thank you for deleting, i was trying to and couldn't figure out how

[Thaidream]

There are a lot of people who do not know the difference between conservatives and liberals; racists and neo nazis as well as those prejudiced and simply stereotyping.

 

I have never met a Nazi sympathizer who would endorse what happened during their reign. I have met people who do not  like certain races; certain cultures; certain religions; certain skin colors ; certain nationalities. Are they racist or bigoted?  Possibly. Will they act directly towards anyone. Most likely never. Most people who are bigoted or even racist don't know anything about the person they direct their rancour to or have even met anyone like that person. They are just ignorant.  The solution is simple- if one doesn't like the message do not associate with the person. However, as long as they  do not act out against anyone- they are entitled to an opinion.

 

I don't see Brexit or the election of Trump as examples of racists supporting either of these. There are certainly some who are but not the majority. There is a much deeper undercurrent in both the UK and the US and it has to do with income inequality which  effects all colors of people.  The politicians like to use race; stereotypes and any other kind of negative to gain votes and power and never helping any of the masses. One day the populations will wake up and instead of  being separated by prejudices- they will join together and get rid of  people who would divide rather than unite.

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, jenifer d said:

i can guarantee that most Thais feel the same way as i do...

That's a bit sweeping isn't it?

 

I would accept that the majority of Thai's that you know personally have told you that they agree with you.

[smotherb]

18 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

Why does this require specific examples? Racist is racist, full stop. And you are taking this thread off track. I am talking about extreme racist and bigoted expats living in Thailand, not elsewhere and not swaying this thread towards politics abroad.

 

I have met several expats here who appear to be extreme right wingers. Yet, as one poster has mentioned, I`ve met several expat men who are in relationships or married to Thais in Thailand, some with children, that for reasons I don`t understand seem to have made Thais exempt from their superioristic points of view. Maybe it`s because it suits them to do so? But these people do hold a type of arrogance bringing their old prejudices over to Thailand that I don`t like.

 

 

Racist is racist, full stop? There are many differing opinions as to what constitutes racism, not full stop. Are you talking about race relations, religion or politics; or all the above. The example you used of Nazi rhetoric was as much political as it was racist. How about examples so that we know whether you are not talking about those racists who hang people they consider inferior off a tree, or those racists who simply do not associate with those they feel are inferior, or those who just bitch and moan about it; or just Trumpets, bible-thumpers, or life-long losers.

[rijb]

6 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Maybe we need to get the terms of reference right.

 

Racist, I am genetically superior to you.

 

Xenophobic, I dont like you because you come from somewhere else.

 

Bigotry, I dont like you because you have a different opinion.

BigoTVF, All posters are overweight, alcoholics and married to bar girls, except me.

 

Xenothai, I speak for all Thais because foreigners don't know the language and the culture, except me.

 

[jenifer d]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

That's a bit sweeping isn't it?

 

I would accept that the majority of Thai's that you know personally have told you that they agree with you.

actually, since i am quite famous as a musician on our island and elsewhere, in towns and cities from Betong (Yala) to Chiang Khan (Loei), i am known by literally thousands of Thais from ALL socioeconomic classes and walks of life- TV stars, governors, police chiefs, entrepreneurs, businesspeople, diplomats, laborers, - and THEY are the ones who have told me this (not vice versa) i know these thousands of Thais as well, and although they ALL know my name, i am terrible at names (it is a running joke among most Thais who know me, "dok mai can never remember anybody's names because she knows too many people") 

EVERY Thai person i know, without exception, is fiercely proud of the fact that Thailand has never been colonized, and in the same vein they deeply resent foreigners who come here and show off their money and/or settle here without learning the language or understanding the culture whatsoever...

there are several pejorative terms that are used, i know all of them, 99% of the time those epithets are used in farang's presence and the foreigner is none the wiser...

that is not to say we are not welcome here, we ARE- if we actually come here with an open mind and willingness to learn the who what when where and whys of Thai and Thainess, then we are embraced;

ask the several TVF members who live happily w/family in small villages (although our island is an increasingly popular tourist destination, we still have a resolutely small village feel, especially in my community where i live- despite the tourists since most residents were born here, unlike Phuket, Samui, etc, where several migrate to for work)

[Goanna]

3 hours ago, jenifer d said:

it is my observation that MANY of the people posting on TVF are extremely racist, xenophobic,

virulently anti-Islam and anti-trans

it appears to me that a majority of the posters seem to be alcoholics married to former bar girls, and take any and every opportunity to slam Thai people and Muslims and immigrants and transgender, among other targets-          also many take huge delight in derisively slamming me because i have taken the time and trouble and open-mindedness to actually study and learn the Thai language and embrace the Thai culture while living and thinking and behaving as Thai, not as a bigoted expat colonist

So the perfect viegin is amongst us.

The other crowd may want to stop killing us to improver their image. Until then, it is what is is. Reality can be hard to swallow. Wake up or choke.

[jeab1980]

Racism the word to end all words. Everyone has there own take on the word and what it means this is what Wikipedia says:

 

Today, the use of the term "racism" does not easily fall under a single definition.^[1]

The ideology underlying racist practices often includes the idea that humans can be subdivided into distinct groups that are different due to their social behavior and their innate capacities as well as the idea that they can be ranked as inferior or superior.^[2]The Holocaust is a classic example of institutionalized racism which led to the death of millions of people based on race. While the concepts of race and ethnicity are considered to be separate in contemporary social science, the two terms have a long history of equivalence in both popular usage and older social science literature. "Ethnicity" is often used in a sense close to one traditionally attributed to "race": the division of human groups based on qualities assumed to be essential or innate to the group (e.g. shared ancestry or shared behavior). Therefore, racism and racial discrimination are often used to describe discrimination on an ethnic or cultural basis, independent of whether these differences are described as racial. According to a United Nations convention on racial discrimination, there is no distinction between the terms "racial" and "ethnic" discrimination. The UN convention further concludes that superiority based on racial differentiation is scientifically false, morally condemnable, socially unjust and dangerous, and there is no justification for racial discrimination, anywhere, in theory or in practice.^[3]

Racist ideology can become manifest in many aspects of social life. Racism can be present in social actions, practices, or political systems (e.g., apartheid) that support the expression of prejudice or aversion in discriminatory practices. Associated social actions may include nativism, xenophobia, otherness, segregation, hierarchical ranking, supremacism, and related social phenomena

 

If we take the first sentence:

 

Racism is discrimination and prejudice towards people based on their race or ethnicity.

So why us it if i use the N word twds a black person i am vilified and called a racist.

If a black person uses the N word to another black person thats fine no problem. 

In our own ways we are all racist to a certain extent without even knowing it.

Personaly i hate the word as it can be used like a weapon and is constantly.

Edited July 27, 2017 by jeab1980

[jenifer d]

1 minute ago, Goanna said:

So the perfect viegin is amongst us.

The other crowd may want to stop killing us to improver their image. Until then, it is what is is. Reality can be hard to swallow. Wake up or choke.

beg pardon, please explain?

[iReason]

29 minutes ago, Goanna said:

So the perfect viegin is amongst us.

The other crowd may want to stop killing us to improver their image. Until then, it is what is is. Reality can be hard to swallow. Wake up or choke.

 

Is english your first language?

[Thaidream]

I have had many African American co-workers and friends and they have at times used the N word- I have never used it and never will even if they don't mind.  When used by a white person- the word brings  a different meaning than when used by a person of color.   Growing up in an Italian family- some kids used to call us dago's which was a pejorative. My father used it as a joke to take the sting out of the word but never tolerated a non Italian using it because it then had a vile meaning.

 

I, also have heard Thai's using pejoratives towards Westerners and other nationalities and it makes me feel uncomfortable but since they know I understand they clarify the comments and make sure I know they are not directed  at me.  Thais will accept a foreigner who respects the customs and culture but even after 5 decades of immersion I can never become Thai or be accepted as Thai. I have never experienced any type of bigotry or prejudice directed to me personally. I have however experienced it from Westerners of other nationalities and religions.

[Been there done that]

3 hours ago, observer90210 said:

An excellent issue raised by the OP.

 

Hate, racism, white supremacists, bigotry that overflows to rude..

 

All a matter of inner frustrations, lack of confidence, weak character, no self-esteem and/or low education...

 

 

Lack of empathy more like it.

 

Do not do, or say, to others what you dont like others say about you.

 

As long as lieing is an acceptable manner to improve oneself, or make oneself look better to others,  nothing will ever change about the type of behaviour OP is referring too. 

 

For sure living in Thailand, which I not admire, will not change their way of thinking.

[jeab1980]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I have had many African American co-workers and friends and they have at times used the N word- I have never used it and never will even if they don't mind.  When used by a white person- the word brings  a different meaning than when used by a person of color.   Growing up in an Italian family- some kids used to call us dago's which was a pejorative. My father used it as a joke to take the sting out of the word but never tolerated a non Italian using it because it then had a vile meaning.

 

I, also have heard Thai's using pejoratives towards Westerners and other nationalities and it makes me feel uncomfortable but since they know I understand they clarify the comments and make sure I know they are not directed  at me.  Thais will accept a foreigner who respects the customs and culture but even after 5 decades of immersion I can never become Thai or be accepted as Thai. I have never experienced any type of bigotry or prejudice directed to me personally. I have however experienced it from Westerners of other nationalities and religions.

There you go you see a long explanation but in the end what your saying is a white person using the word is a racist where a black man using it is ok no problem. Well isnt that racist?

[Ahab]

7 hours ago, iReason said:

 

A pile of hyperbolic, baseless nonsense.

 

"I am from America and because I was born white, I am now considered a racist by many on the left in my country."

But, I am interested as to why "the left" feels that way about you.

You would have to ask them why they consider all whites racist (not just myself), I haven't a clue how or why anyone would prejudge someone based solely on someone's race. Isn't that the definition of being a racist?

[Thaidream]

The word has been used in the past as a pejorative towards black people especially during the days of slavery and for a white person to use it at any time shows a lack of decorum and also a lack of understanding why black people do not like it. I have heard whites use it in the presence of black friends thinking it is 'cool'.  Nothing was said by anyone but I could tell  not everyone was laughing.

 

When black people use the word- they use it as a mocking of the racial overtones that it has as its history and sometimes as a term of endearment.  Does anyone really think the oppressor has the right to tell the oppressed how to use this word?

 

It's simple- if you are white don't ever use it. It makes life so much simpler and why would you want to use a word that may be viewed as improper.

[Thaidream]

I am from America and I am NOT considered a racist by anyone who is leftist; progressive; conservative; Republican or Democrat- simply because I don't use labels.  I have my beliefs and if we are in a discussion, I will make an intelligent defense of my point of view and I expect you to do the same. At the end, we may still disagree but there is always a way to agree to disagree without any rancour or name calling.  It's called a debate-

[sandemara]

19 hours ago, cyberfarang said:

But these people do hold a type of arrogance bringing their old prejudices over to Thailand that I don`t like.

I think you're referring to those who still cling to the reassurance they receive from traditional colonial values and beliefs.

Unfortunately many don't realise they're living in as post-colonial world

The behaviours you apparently object to have, I believe. got a lot to do with self-esteem and now out-of-fashion understandings about the world we live in. Values and assumptions that were taught and set in stone. Those old ways have an allure of comfort, especially if the sun's shining now on other cultures and beliefs.

[jeab1980]

15 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

The word has been used in the past as a pejorative towards black people especially during the days of slavery and for a white person to use it at any time shows a lack of decorum and also a lack of understanding why black people do not like it. I have heard whites use it in the presence of black friends thinking it is 'cool'.  Nothing was said by anyone but I could tell  not everyone was laughing.

 

When black people use the word- they use it as a mocking of the racial overtones that it has as its history and sometimes as a term of endearment.  Does anyone really think the oppressor has the right to tell the oppressed how to use this word?

 

It's simple- if you are white don't ever use it. It makes life so much simpler and why would you want to use a word that may be viewed as improper.

Maybe in days long gone but now who is the oppressor and oppressed?

 

[Rc2702]

Not that relevant but this blogger makes a funny point in the following content:

 

I will not post those comments, because I have no interest in using this blog as a place to argue over the “normality” of prostitution or other wrongs in Thailand. There are plenty of blogs and websites where farang can, and do, blather on convincing themselves of the acceptability of the life they live here and their treatment of Thai women and Thai culture. I will give no forum to that. Call me a Stalinist, call me unfair, or ignore this blog. Wait. PLEASE IGNORE THIS BLOG. I know that my views are not those of the majority of expats in Thailand. If this blog makes you uncomfortable or feeling like you need to justify your life here and your treatment of Thai women, than move along. I have a hard enough time avoiding the scumbags in my real life, and I have no interest in debating them here.

That being said, this type of foreign trash makes an all too common argument that goes something like, “Thais had prostitution long before any farang came, most prostitution is conducted by Thai men, poor families push their daughters into becoming prostitutes, poor Thais don’t care what their daughters (or sons) are doing as long as it’s bringing in money, prostitution is just part of ‘Thai culture,’ “etc. Can’t change it, so might as well get your kicks. If you came to the United States in 1800, I suppose you would say, “I’m against slavery, but it’s part of the culture here, so . . . I guess I could use a few niggers to help me out.” The normalization of the exploitation of Thai women is disgusting, but unfortunately all too common amongst the foreigners here. You may be blind to what you are doing, but many Thai are not. Did foreigners bring prostitution to Thailand? No. Do foreigners enable and feed off of prostitution? Do they help to support  a system that perpetuates prostitution? Yes, yes, yes. Are there some strong, sensible, financed, well educated, intelligent women that choose sex-work as a profession in our world?

[lovelomsak]

Reading this thread has been inlighting. 

  It has helped me with understanding racism.

 I would like to give an example of how I understand racism now. I will use black and white because it is the probably the most open.

  If a black person calls another black person a  N  it is ok for reasons not understood by all. But if  white calls a black a N there is a problem. So what I get from this is the word N is and only can be used by blacks. and not by whites. as understood by blacks So the blacks discriminate against the whites making the N word only to be used by blacks .So I see that as problem in not allowing whites to say it because they are white. 

  It is neither the word N or the color of the speaker it is the hate towards the speaker if he is white.that is racist.

Edited July 27, 2017 by lovelomsak

[rijb]

1 hour ago, iReason said:

 

Is english your first language?

Is it yours?