U.S. Senate slaps new sanctions on Russia; Putin vows retaliation

[vandv]

4 hours ago, schlog said:

McCain is symbol for the sick, old and scared U.S..

Time is running and sure not in favor for this shareholder value state.

America first till it's over!

 

that old warpig won't be around much longer.......

 

 

[vandv]

32 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

So the US has invaded foreign countries, taken their territory, and killed their citizens recently?  Iraq 2 was a mess, and a horrible thing.  But the US has done nothing like Russia has recently.  Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, Syria.  Luckily, most of the world is in agreement with this.

 

Interesting that you defend Iran's government.  Hmmm....

 

 you just contradicted yourself

[heybruce]

30 minutes ago, vandv said:

 

that old warpig won't be around much longer.......

 

Do you consider every person who volunteers to serve his or her country in uniform, and agrees to follow orders and policies originating from elected civilian leaders, do be war pigs?

[Becker]

Putin is a murderer and a despot and sorely deserves to have his wings clipped. The US should go after his ill gotten gains wherever he has stashed them, as well as the assets of all his main supporters.

[craigt3365]

39 minutes ago, schlog said:

U must be kidding or working for the Clinton Foundation.

Not kidding, don't work for Clinton.  How about you?

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

And yes, he deserves respect, but should have stepped down at least 5 years ago, probably even earlier.

And to prove that point he will vote in favour of the 'skinny repeal' of the ACA.

My apologies to mr. McCain, he deserves respect for standing by his principles and not giving in to the pressure exerted by Trump and the Republican leadership.

[khunken]

3 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

So the US has invaded foreign countries, taken their territory, and killed their citizens recently?  Iraq 2 was a mess, and a horrible thing.  But the US has done nothing like Russia has recently.  Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, Syria.  Luckily, most of the world is in agreement with this.

 

Interesting that you defend Iran's government.  Hmmm....

 

This is just outrageous propaganda even worse than your normal BS.

The US invaded Syria. Russia didn't - it was invited in to help the country being overcome by a motley mob of 'good' & 'bad' Islamic nutters, some of whom were supported by the US.

 

Since 2001, the US has invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and bombed Libya into a failed state. Yes, the usual arse-licking UK and some others joined up (unfortunately France didn't have a Chirac to stop the Libyan criminality). It has also supported the Saudi genocidal attacks in Yemen & carried out bombing from warships plus the odd visiting helicopter war party. I see no sigh that the US intends to remove itself from Afghanistan or Iraq in the near future - not to mention all the military bases throughout the gulf that no citizen has been allowed to question.

 

I don't know about Moldova, but the Russian invasions of parts of Georgia & Ukraine were justified in protecting ethnic Russians from death (Georgia) & a coup (Ukraine). I followed the latter two closely and endured the MSM lies about both.

 

Iran has invaded no country. It does support Shias (in as far as it can) under attack from Sunni countries & groups, too often supported by the US/UK cabal with lucrative arms deals. BTW Shias are not just under attack in Yemen & Syria but in Bahrain, Saudi itself, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Bangladesh. Iran is mainly demonised by Israel and AIPAC-driven US as well as their major weapons-buying Sunni friends. The recent 'let's demonise Qatar' was started by Trump - and left to some more sane diplomats to pick up the pieces' - because of his continuing ignorant finger pointing at Iran.

Oh and lastly the 'rest of the world' hasn't been asked whether they support any of the invasions, bombings, & arms deals. IMO they would love to see no more fuel poured on ME fires. Also, many citizens (even majorities) in the attacking countries were totally agains some of the invasions & bombings - Iraq being a prime example.

 

[heybruce]

34 minutes ago, khunken said:

This is just outrageous propaganda even worse than your normal BS.

The US invaded Syria. Russia didn't - it was invited in to help the country being overcome by a motley mob of 'good' & 'bad' Islamic nutters, some of whom were supported by the US.

 

Since 2001, the US has invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and bombed Libya into a failed state. Yes, the usual arse-licking UK and some others joined up (unfortunately France didn't have a Chirac to stop the Libyan criminality). It has also supported the Saudi genocidal attacks in Yemen & carried out bombing from warships plus the odd visiting helicopter war party. I see no sigh that the US intends to remove itself from Afghanistan or Iraq in the near future - not to mention all the military bases throughout the gulf that no citizen has been allowed to question.

 

I don't know about Moldova, but the Russian invasions of parts of Georgia & Ukraine were justified in protecting ethnic Russians from death (Georgia) & a coup (Ukraine). I followed the latter two closely and endured the MSM lies about both.

 

Iran has invaded no country. It does support Shias (in as far as it can) under attack from Sunni countries & groups, too often supported by the US/UK cabal with lucrative arms deals. BTW Shias are not just under attack in Yemen & Syria but in Bahrain, Saudi itself, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Bangladesh. Iran is mainly demonised by Israel and AIPAC-driven US as well as their major weapons-buying Sunni friends. The recent 'let's demonise Qatar' was started by Trump - and left to some more sane diplomats to pick up the pieces' - because of his continuing ignorant finger pointing at Iran.

Oh and lastly the 'rest of the world' hasn't been asked whether they support any of the invasions, bombings, & arms deals. IMO they would love to see no more fuel poured on ME fires. Also, many citizens (even majorities) in the attacking countries were totally agains some of the invasions & bombings - Iraq being a prime example.

 

Wow, you are misinformed to the extreme.

 

The US hasn't invaded Syria.  It has some military advisers there who avoid direct combat.

 

The US didn't bomb Libya, that was France and the UK.  The US played a support role, somewhat reluctantly.  Obama didn't want to get into another unsolvable mess.  Unfortunately the UK and France didn't see it that way.

 

The US and other countries sells arms to the Saudis.  I am not aware of any country supporting the Saudi attacks in Yemen.  If you are going to claim providing arms is support, then you can blame every genocidal conflict using Kalashnikov rifles on the Soviet Union/Russia support.

 

I'll leave it to others to comment on your defense of Shias.  I have no interest in defending the actions of Shias or Shiites.

 

Maybe we should ask the 'rest of the world' about military policies in general.  How do we do that?

[khunken]

8 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Wow, you are misinformed to the extreme.

 

The US hasn't invaded Syria.  It has some military advisers there who avoid direct combat.

 

The US didn't bomb Libya, that was France and the UK.  The US played a support role, somewhat reluctantly.  Obama didn't want to get into another unsolvable mess.  Unfortunately the UK and France didn't see it that way.

 

The US and other countries sells arms to the Saudis.  I am not aware of any country supporting the Saudi attacks in Yemen.  If you are going to claim providing arms is support, then you can blame every genocidal conflict using Kalashnikov rifles on the Soviet Union/Russia support.

 

I'll leave it to others to comment on your defense of Shias.  I have no interest in defending the actions of Shias or Shiites.

 

Maybe we should ask the 'rest of the world' about military policies in general.  How do we do that?

Not as misinformed as you apparently.

The US support role in bombing Syria was via NATO and it was just as culpable as the UK & France. There was no reluctance from Clinton who was & is a warmonger.

The US has bombed Yemen and - as I said - raided via helicopter groups. The fullsome support given to Saudi - as well as arms, without any caveat on using them on civilians - is just the same as supporting their genocidal war in Yemen. Not a peep about it at the UN.

Ask Craig about 'most of the world is in agreement with this' which is what I was responding to.

[Srikcir]

 

 

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

to prove that point he will vote in favour of the 'skinny repeal' of the ACA.

He voted against the "skinny repeal." Repeal failed 49 to 5.

 

[heybruce]

41 minutes ago, khunken said:

Not as misinformed as you apparently.

The US support role in bombing Syria was via NATO and it was just as culpable as the UK & France. There was no reluctance from Clinton who was & is a warmonger.

The US has bombed Yemen and - as I said - raided via helicopter groups. The fullsome support given to Saudi - as well as arms, without any caveat on using them on civilians - is just the same as supporting their genocidal war in Yemen. Not a peep about it at the UN.

Ask Craig about 'most of the world is in agreement with this' which is what I was responding to.

I assume you meant Libya and not Syria in your second sentence, and that you will make all nations that participated in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc "just as culpable" as the US.  Clinton was Secretary of State then, she wasn't part of the Defense Department.

 

The US staged a raid in Yemen and killed seven Al Qaeda militants.  I don't know if Saudi Arabia was informed before the raid, do you?

 

Since you insist that selling arms is genocidal support, I assume you agree that Russia is supported all genocidal wars conducted with Kalashnikov rifles.  That's a lot of genocide.

[khunken]

24 minutes ago, heybruce said:

I assume you meant Libya and not Syria in your second sentence, and that you will make all nations that participated in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc "just as culpable" as the US.  Clinton was Secretary of State then, she wasn't part of the Defense Department.

 

The US staged a raid in Yemen and killed seven Al Qaeda militants.  I don't know if Saudi Arabia was informed before the raid, do you?

 

Since you insist that selling arms is genocidal support, I assume you agree that Russia is supported all genocidal wars conducted with Kalashnikov rifles.  That's a lot of genocide.

Yes I meant Libya not Syria - thanks for not making a fuss of that.

Yes I do make the countries that participated in the invasions & bombings culpable but not as culpable as the leaders who instigated the mayhem. I know Clinton was secretary of state & I also know she supported the campaign.

No idea if Saudi was informed before any of the US attacks on Yemen. I do know that both countries are involved in a genocidal campaign against the Houthis & others - arms sales or not. If you are referring to a recent raid instigated by Trump - most of those they killed were civilians, contrary to US propaganda.

No I don't agree that AK47s are in any way comparable to military aircraft, tanks and assorted WMD. You might want to have a look are what the US has supplied to various militias such as the so called good rebels in Syria. Used captured AK47s and other low-level weaponry. BTW you can make the same idiotic case for those who supplied M15s.

Edited July 28, 2017 by khunken
clarification

[heybruce]

17 minutes ago, khunken said:

Yes I meant Libya not Syria - thanks for not making a fuss of that.

Yes I do make the countries that participated in the invasions & bombings culpable but not as culpable as the leaders who instigated the mayhem. I know Clinton was secretary of state & I also know she supported the campaign.

No idea if Saudi was informed before any of the US attacks on Yemen. I do know that both countries are involved in a genocidal campaign against the Houthis & others - arms sales or not. If you are referring to a recent raid instigated by Trump - most of those they killed were civilians, contrary to US propaganda.

No I don't agree that AK47s are in any way comparable to military aircraft, tanks and assorted WMD. You might want to have a look are what the US has supplied to various militias such as the so called good rebels in Syria. Used captured AK47s and other low-level weaponry. BTW you can make the same idiotic case for those who supplied M15s.

M15's aren't as popular, and AK47's have killed far more people than the more expensive weaponry.    But this is way off topic here. 

 

The Senate put sanctions on Russia for interfering in the US election.  These sanctions are well deserved, as are the existing sanction for Russia's occupation of Crimea and support for thugs posing as rebels in eastern Ukraine who shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight 17 .  No doubt you will maintain Russia is innocent of these and other things.

 

I'm going to a place nearby where pretty university students will feed me, beer me and drink with me.   I'll check back on this tomorrow.  I suggest you and others find other things to do as well.

[khunken]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

M15's aren't as popular, and AK47's have killed far more people than the more expensive weaponry.    But this is way off topic here. 

 

The Senate put sanctions on Russia for interfering in the US election.  These sanctions are well deserved, as are the existing sanction for Russia's occupation of Crimea and support for thugs posing as rebels in eastern Ukraine who shot down the Malaysian Airlines flight 17 .  No doubt you will maintain Russia is innocent of these and other things.

 

I'm going to a place nearby where pretty university students will feed me, beer me and drink with me.   I'll check back on this tomorrow.  I suggest you and others find other things to do as well.

You're right about straying off topic but I can't let your first sentence pass. I know that the Germans didn't use AK47s in WWII when killing millions of Russians, Jews and assorted others. WWI - millions more long before the AK47 was invented. So that's a ridiculous comment.

 

The sanctions might be deserved if they were based on fact. I'll agree when we are shown proof of the interference. The real thugs in Ukraine - fascists actually - were those supported by the US (Neocon Nuland revealed the US's hand) in overthrowing the elected Ukraine government. Yes the rebels there shot down MAS 17 & I condemn that but the US with some EU friends have constantly tried to prove a Russian connectian & failed. It was a Russian-made BUK captured from the Ukraine military that was used. Yes I support Russia's take-back of Crimea to prevent NATO missiles being installed there.

 

The other thing about the sanctions is that, once again, the current mob (not Trump this time) have pissed off some Europeans (Germans mainly) with handicapping companies in the gas pipeline business. One can easily speculate about an ulterior motive.

 

No more from me on this thread.

Edited July 28, 2017 by khunken
exit

[craigt3365]

13 hours ago, khunken said:

This is just outrageous propaganda even worse than your normal BS.

The US invaded Syria. Russia didn't - it was invited in to help the country being overcome by a motley mob of 'good' & 'bad' Islamic nutters, some of whom were supported by the US.

 

Since 2001, the US has invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria and bombed Libya into a failed state. Yes, the usual arse-licking UK and some others joined up (unfortunately France didn't have a Chirac to stop the Libyan criminality). It has also supported the Saudi genocidal attacks in Yemen & carried out bombing from warships plus the odd visiting helicopter war party. I see no sigh that the US intends to remove itself from Afghanistan or Iraq in the near future - not to mention all the military bases throughout the gulf that no citizen has been allowed to question.

 

I don't know about Moldova, but the Russian invasions of parts of Georgia & Ukraine were justified in protecting ethnic Russians from death (Georgia) & a coup (Ukraine). I followed the latter two closely and endured the MSM lies about both.

 

Iran has invaded no country. It does support Shias (in as far as it can) under attack from Sunni countries & groups, too often supported by the US/UK cabal with lucrative arms deals. BTW Shias are not just under attack in Yemen & Syria but in Bahrain, Saudi itself, Afghanistan, Pakistan & Bangladesh. Iran is mainly demonised by Israel and AIPAC-driven US as well as their major weapons-buying Sunni friends. The recent 'let's demonise Qatar' was started by Trump - and left to some more sane diplomats to pick up the pieces' - because of his continuing ignorant finger pointing at Iran.

Oh and lastly the 'rest of the world' hasn't been asked whether they support any of the invasions, bombings, & arms deals. IMO they would love to see no more fuel poured on ME fires. Also, many citizens (even majorities) in the attacking countries were totally agains some of the invasions & bombings - Iraq being a prime example.

 

Talk about BS.  You need to research the Syrian war.  Perhaps you get your news from Russia Today? LOL  The US "invaded" Syria.  Too funny.  Maybe this will help your understanding of how the civil war started in Syria. 

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/05/syria-civil-war-explained-160505084119966.html

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Civil_War

 

As for Afghanistan, you probably didn't know about their relation with the World Trade Center attacks.  I cut you some slack there.  P.S. I worked at the WTC at the time.  Iraq was a total screwup, for sure!  You need to research who was behind the Libya mess.  The US wasn't in the lead there.  Just supporting.

 

You should read up on Moldova.  And having been to all of these countries, I'll tell you the majority of the citizens don't agree the actions by Russia were justified.  Again, you're getting your news from the wrong sources.

 

Saying MSM lies shows you're trolling.  I give up. 

[craigt3365]

13 hours ago, heybruce said:

Wow, you are misinformed to the extreme.

 

The US hasn't invaded Syria.  It has some military advisers there who avoid direct combat.

 

The US didn't bomb Libya, that was France and the UK.  The US played a support role, somewhat reluctantly.  Obama didn't want to get into another unsolvable mess.  Unfortunately the UK and France didn't see it that way.

 

The US and other countries sells arms to the Saudis.  I am not aware of any country supporting the Saudi attacks in Yemen.  If you are going to claim providing arms is support, then you can blame every genocidal conflict using Kalashnikov rifles on the Soviet Union/Russia support.

 

I'll leave it to others to comment on your defense of Shias.  I have no interest in defending the actions of Shias or Shiites.

 

Maybe we should ask the 'rest of the world' about military policies in general.  How do we do that?

Hard to have a discussion with that guy.  He's hard core anti-US.  And for sure doesn't have his facts straight!  LOL

[stevenl]

18 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

Hard to have a discussion with that guy.  He's hard core anti-US.  And for sure doesn't have his facts straight!  LOL

He does have a point in that the us policies have not been very clear or consistent. Obama tried to bring some logic in it, but more time was needed.

[craigt3365]

26 minutes ago, stevenl said:

He does have a point in that the us policies have not been very clear or consistent. Obama tried to bring some logic in it, but more time was needed.

But his comments were totally wrong.  He doesn't have his facts straight.  He says MSM lies, and there's his problem.  Relying on fringe websites that put out conspiracy theories. Or as with Trump, "alternate realities". LOL

Edited July 29, 2017 by craigt3365

[heybruce]

18 hours ago, khunken said:

You're right about straying off topic but I can't let your first sentence pass. I know that the Germans didn't use AK47s in WWII when killing millions of Russians, Jews and assorted others. WWI - millions more long before the AK47 was invented. So that's a ridiculous comment.

 

The sanctions might be deserved if they were based on fact. I'll agree when we are shown proof of the interference. The real thugs in Ukraine - fascists actually - were those supported by the US (Neocon Nuland revealed the US's hand) in overthrowing the elected Ukraine government. Yes the rebels there shot down MAS 17 & I condemn that but the US with some EU friends have constantly tried to prove a Russian connectian & failed. It was a Russian-made BUK captured from the Ukraine military that was used. Yes I support Russia's take-back of Crimea to prevent NATO missiles being installed there.

 

The other thing about the sanctions is that, once again, the current mob (not Trump this time) have pissed off some Europeans (Germans mainly) with handicapping companies in the gas pipeline business. One can easily speculate about an ulterior motive.

 

No more from me on this thread.

I thought we were discussing events in the last half century, not World War II.  The AK47 is the weapon of choice across the world for revolutionaries, terrorists and criminal gangs.  The AK47 killed millions of people in Africa in the last 20 years.

 

I won't rehash all the evidence pointing towards Russian involvement in election hacks and fake news.  I will point out that only someone who swallows Russian propaganda without question believes that the BUK used to shoot down Malaysian Air flight 17 was captured from the Ukrainian military.

 

I agree that sanctions should be agreed upon with European allies before implementation.  However Congress concluded, with good reason, that something had to be done and Trump was more likely to do the wrong thing than the correct thing.  Under other circumstances I would object to Congress getting involved in foreign policy in this manner, but with an erratic incompetent in the White House I think it is necessary.