Ketogenic (Keto) Diet/Lifestyle

[DividendGuy]

Hello Everyone.

 

I have recently been reading a lot of news on the Keto lifestyle on Youtube and it seems to be interesting. I must admit I don't know much about it and am thinking about giving it a try, but first I would like to ask some questions from anyone who is living it.

 

# Does it really work and are you healthier?

# What advice can you give me on starting?

# What are the problems you have faced?

# What are the negatives staying on Keto?

# Is it hard or problematic to stay long-term on Keto?

# Are there any health issues/problems associated with it?

 

Thanks for any comment or reply you can give.

 

 

[bberrythailand]

Also interested, but how difficult it must be to give up carbs !!!

 

https://www.ruled.me/guide-keto-diet/

 

 

[DividendGuy]

Thanks bberrythailand for the website. I agree about giving up carbs but, if it really does make you heathier then I am willing to give up carbs.

[Pungdo]

I have been on an LCHF woe (Way of eating) for over 2 years and yes it definitely works, I lost weight where I couldn't get it off before, I got off all of the meds I had been on for years, simply because I no longer need them, including blood pressure tablets.

I steered a very over weight friend from back home in Australia 18 months ago towards LCHF, he has now lost a little over 80KG and and solved a whole host of health issues he had.

If you are a Facebook person, there are quite a few good groups that you can join, just search for Keto and LCHF, the Ketovangelist Kitchen is a good one.

Here is a photo of what my mate has achieved, looks like a different guy.

Have a listen to a podcast he did recently:  https://omny.fm/shows/the-transformed-man-show/013-lovin-low-carb-darren-graham

Edited July 29, 2017 by Pungdo

[Antonymous]

16 hours ago, DividendGuy said:

# Does it really work and are you healthier?

# What advice can you give me on starting?

# What are the problems you have faced?

# What are the negatives staying on Keto?

# Is it hard or problematic to stay long-term on Keto?

# Are there any health issues/problems associated with it?

I was on a keto diet for a couple of years.

 

Does it work? That depends what you are trying to achieve by it. Is it a specific health condition you are trying to improve or just to reduce weight? Can't answer the former for you, but regarding losing weight you can achieve weight loss by doing the exact reverse and cutting out all animal fats and oils and bulking up on carbs like sweet potatoes, potatoes and brown rice. I switched to the latter diet for three months recently and weight fell from 86kg to 79kg effortlessly. To understand the process look up trophology (the science of food combining) and for much more detail on the heath benefits of a high carb diet check out  "Dr McDougall diet plan".

 

Problems I faced with the keto diet: I just couldn't face eating so much meat. But from a health perspective the main problem I faced was a rising uric acid level that eventually caused gout. If you do go on the keto diet for an extended period I recommend that you have your uric acid level checked by a simple blood test before and during the change. By the way, my uric acid level halved in three months when I went onto a no fat high carb diet.

 

My own approach to diet is to monitor my health closely (including blood tests twice a year) and to change or tweak diet and nutrition (and lifestyle) according to the results. Sticking to one special diet forever may not be the best option.

[taiping]

I kept to a strict Keto diet of less than 20 grams of net carbs (total carbs less dietary fiber) a day for 3-months, to try to treat cancer.

Advantages: Lost 13 Kg.

Disadvantages: Felt unwell and lacked energy throughout (first 2 weeks were even tougher with the well-known "Keto Flu" syndrome); very difficult to keep to the diet (had to weigh everything I ate, nearly all vegetables); keto strips to measure blood keto levels are expensive and I could not find them in Thailand (optimum range is for the blood Glucose/Ketone ratio to be less than 1.0); difficult to do as a vegetarian and in any case I don't think eating large quantities of meat is healthy (Atkins keeled over from a heart attack from his similar Atkins Diet).

I don't know if this did any good for the cancer. Doubt it because I found it was impossible to reduce blood glucose levels by much, even though I could increase the keto levels. The metabolic theory of cancer is that cancer feeds off sugar.

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by taiping

[JSixpack]

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search/?&q=keto&type=forums_topic&nodes=111&sortby=relevancy

[1FinickyOne]

I also got tired of too much meat - too much protein and had a bout of gout... I did lose weight but gained it back quickly... so it goes. I have other friends it works for... 

[TheRascal]

Tim Ferris podcasts with Dom D'Agnostino are great, he's been on twice at least and is an expert on keto and fasting. 

 

I think they are available on youtube or download a podcast app and you can listen on the go. 

 

[Brahmz]

Yes it works, I have been eating it for 10 years, and am in great shape.

www.ibsexplained.com is the link for my diet. It can be lacto-vegetarian for Thailand. This is important as there are a lot of parasites in raw meat & fish here.

There are no negatives

It is hard as eating this way is so different from everyone else.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Brahmz
adding extra info

[pumpjack]

you do not have to go to xtreme keto diet.

 

its about lifestyle changes and my life style change was high protein low carbs / low sugar.    

 

it works !!!  it will continue to work !! 

 

just eat fewer carbs especially after 5pm 

 

only reason i put weight on or even keep weight on is because i love beer .  if i could only cut down on beer then i would never ever ever get fat on a low carb lifestyle

[bogozy]

I am on a paleo diet, very near to ketogenic. Use only natural pig fate in the kitchen. Use it with omlettes and so on in other foods in stead of oil. The baked fat is very tasteful with rice.  Of course I am eating a lot of vegetables and fruits, and a smaller quantity of fish and chicken, beside fat. No any unpleasant side effects. No constant hungriness. The weight of my body are stabilised about 65 kilogramms, in perfect accordancce with my tall.

[Oxx]

2 hours ago, taiping said:

Atkins keeled over from a heart attack from his similar Atkins Diet

 

There are just two things wrong with that:

 

(1) He designed the diet.  He didn't follow it himself.

 

(2) He died not from a heart attack, but from falling over on an icy pavement and hitting his head.

[RuamRudy]

I had a very positive experience from it: I found that I had much more energy than previously; dermatitis, that had been troubling me for about 18 months, cleared up completely within 3 weeks of starting the diet; I didn't lose much weight, maybe a couple of kg, but much more beach fit.

 

I was fortunate that I didn't experience any of the side effects I read about: keto-flu or ketone breath. 

 

I guess in Thailand it is maybe difficult if eating out a lot - they tend to add a lot of sugar to sauces, and of course, rice and noodles are also a big no-no. 

[Thai Ron]

Ketogenic diets will give you fast results in terms of weight loss but it will mostly be water weight.

As soon as you eat carbs again, the glycogen in your cells will store 4 X their own weight in water.

This is why some dieters are so disheartened when they check the scales after a pizza the night before only to discover they feel bloated and have put on 2 or 3kg overnight (which is exactly what they've done).

 

I went through the highs and lows of elation and frustration trying to shed fat this way and eventually  gave up.

Started relying on cardio/resistance training and the cold hard math of caloric deficits and just consuming less than I expended.

Takes longer but the fat loss is consistent.

 

[peterb17]

A question to ask- do you really want to go on yet another fad diet. 

 

There are so many around- I would suggest that the practitioners pushing these diets are only in for one thing to sell their books etc .

 

So things to consider- are humans in evolutionary terms  carnivores ? Are you physiological designed to live on a very high protein meat based diet? 

 

Is the human alimentary system designed to have a very low fibre diet?  

Low fibre diets are linked to diverticulitis.

 

The body is supplied by some quite important nutrients from the products of digestion of things like hemicellulose in the colon. 

 

It has been recognised that healthy  gut flora - an amazing population of hundreds of species living in your gut- can have a significant influence on your overall well being . A so called keto diet will impact the make up of the variety of species.

 

There is only one rule if you wish to lose weight- if energy intake is less than energy expended by the body - you will lose weight .

 

A balanced diet- plenty of veg ( cheap and plentiful here) , go easy on oils and fats- you need them - some fatty acids are essential- so not too much. Complex carbs are fine. Cut down portion sizes. 

 

Dont do it .

 

PS I have a degree in biochemistry and also microbiology and taught human anatomy, histology and physiology at a high level for many years 

Edited July 29, 2017 by peterb17
Grammar error

[DividendGuy]

Thanks Everyone.

 

The reason why I started this topic was to learn from your experiences with these types of Keto diets before I plunged headfirst into something I am not too knowledgeable about. Reading about your firsthand experiences is the most important way for me to make up my mind if this is the way forward for me.

 

Many of the sites I read only glossed over the problems and tried to convince you that this is the new way to long-term eating, but didn't mention any real problems that might arise along the way. This is starting to make me realize it is more complicated than I first thought.

 

Again thanks for your input and your comments. 

[lvr181]

Try eating less calories than what you burn up (if you doing a diet for weight loss)! The world is full of dieting fads.

[Tapster]

@DividendGuy

 

I'd like to add that this isn't a fad diet. This is the fat-loss diet advice suggested by a lot of hard science.

For years the press has quoted one study claiming this and another claiming that, so that people are distrusting of another study.

The science behind this is solid and comes from many studies carried out world-wide under the most rigorous ethical standards.

 

The so-called Keto Diet is not a normal, day-to-day eating plan for maintaining body weight. It is a safe way of manipulating your body's metabolism so that it mainly uses fat for energy, thus reducing body fat.

 

The day-to-day eating concept associated with this diet is LCHF, or low carbohydrate, high fat. The idea is that you eat a lot less processed carbohydrate like sugar, pasta, white bread, rice and replace those calories with foods containing hunger-satisfying fats in the form of meats, dairy, oily fish and even fruit and vegetables.

 

You don't have to start off with a strict keto diet. As has been said in a previous post, just changing to the principles of LCHF will cause you to lose weight, so long as you're not going to over-eat and drink gallons of beer!

 

You can try it and if you like it, then get more serious with the keto diet. Either way, you will be at less cardiac and diabetic risk on LCHF and you'll probably start to feel better as well.

 

 

 

[lvr181]

2 minutes ago, Tapster said:

@DividendGuy

 

I'd like to add that this isn't a fad diet. This is the fat-loss diet advice suggested by a lot of hard science.

For years the press has quoted one study claiming this and another claiming that, so that people are distrusting of another study.

The science behind this is solid and comes from many studies carried out world-wide under the most rigorous ethical standards.

 

The so-called Keto Diet is not a normal, day-to-day eating plan for maintaining body weight. It is a safe way of manipulating your body's metabolism so that it mainly uses fat for energy, thus reducing body fat.

 

The day-to-day eating concept associated with this diet is LCHF, or low carbohydrate, high fat. The idea is that you eat a lot less processed carbohydrate like sugar, pasta, white bread, rice and replace those calories with foods containing hunger-satisfying fats in the form of meats, dairy, oily fish and even fruit and vegetables.

 

You don't have to start off with a strict keto diet. As has been said in a previous post, just changing to the principles of LCHF will cause you to lose weight, so long as you're not going to over-eat and drink gallons of beer!

 

You can try it and if you like it, then get more serious with the keto diet. Either way, you will be at less cardiac and diabetic risk on LCHF and you'll probably start to feel better as well.

 

 

 

I'll go with peterb17  

 

Normally with 'science' there are references? Where are yours?

 

Whose 'rigorous ethical standards'?

 

Has this 'solid science' and 'rigorous ethical standards' been peer reviewed?

[Tapster]

@lvr181

 

Fair comment. 

 

I was on the way out the door when I posted, and am running late now as a result. 

 

I thought I might be picked up on sources and citations. 

 

Not only peer review but the gold standard of experiments: randomised, double blind, placebo-controlled. 

 

I'll post sources in full this evening or early tomorrow. Sorry it can't be sooner. 

 

@peterb17

 

I'm a scientist of a sort: Dental degree and prize in physiology. 

 

From an evolutionary perspective humans are omnivores, designed to make the best use of the foods presented to them. There were no refined carbs available until very recently in evolutionary terms. Human digestion was designed to get the most out of carbs. We couldn't digest cellulose, but it was useful as fibre. The starches/complex carbs we ate were digested and turned into simple sugars, the blood level of which was controlled by insulin. 

 

When refined carbs and simple sugars became part of our daily diet, our bodies processed them in the same way as they did the complex carbs of old and excess metabolic energy was created which was turned into fat, for a hard winter which never came. 

 

The calorie-counting, 'energy in : energy out' concept needs to change. 

I held to this for years until about three years ago when I was presented with evidence that calories from sugar and refined carbohydrates cause more fat deposition than calories from fat. 

 

This is counter-intuitive to the low fat generation (and I spent years as a keen rock climber following such a diet)  but it is provable that we have been misled by vested interests, intellectual arrogance and a sad lack of academic rigor. 

 

As I said above, I'll post links and I'd like to hear your thoughts. 

 

Until later. 

 

 

Edited July 29, 2017 by Tapster

[bkk6060]

7 hours ago, Pungdo said:

I have been on an LCHF woe (Way of eating) for over 2 years and yes it definitely works, I lost weight where I couldn't get it off before, I got off all of the meds I had been on for years, simply because I no longer need them, including blood pressure tablets.

I steered a very over weight friend from back home in Australia 18 months ago towards LCHF, he has now lost a little over 80KG and and solved a whole host of health issues he had.

If you are a Facebook person, there are quite a few good groups that you can join, just search for Keto and LCHF, the Ketovangelist Kitchen is a good one.

Here is a photo of what my mate has achieved, looks like a different guy.

Have a listen to a podcast he did recently:  https://omny.fm/shows/the-transformed-man-show/013-lovin-low-carb-darren-graham

The guy on the left looks like a 40 yr old fat guy.

The guy on the right looks like a 60 yr old skinny guy.

As one gets older I actually think people look better with a little extra weight. Older skinny dudes seem to look unhealthy.

But, maybe they feel better.

95% of the people I know who have gone on the low carb deal have gained it back.  

Good luck to those who try it.

 

[tryasimight]

6 hours ago, peterb17 said:

A question to ask- do you really want to go on yet another fad diet. 

 

There are so many around- I would suggest that the practitioners pushing these diets are only in for one thing to sell their books etc .

 

So things to consider- are humans in evolutionary terms  carnivores ? Are you physiological designed to live on a very high protein meat based diet? 

 

Is the human alimentary system designed to have a very low fibre diet?  

Low fibre diets are linked to diverticulitis.

 

The body is supplied by some quite important nutrients from the products of digestion of things like hemicellulose in the colon. 

 

It has been recognised that healthy  gut flora - an amazing population of hundreds of species living in your gut- can have a significant influence on your overall well being . A so called keto diet will impact the make up of the variety of species.

 

There is only one rule if you wish to lose weight- if energy intake is less than energy expended by the body - you will lose weight .

 

A balanced diet- plenty of veg ( cheap and plentiful here) , go easy on oils and fats- you need them - some fatty acids are essential- so not too much. Complex carbs are fine. Cut down portion sizes. 

 

Dont do it .

 

PS I have a degree in biochemistry and also microbiology and taught human anatomy, histology and physiology at a high level for many years 

Can you cook?

[Tapster]

 

"gaining it back" is nothing to do with the diet people are/were on........it has everything to do with the habits they return to.

[lensta]

I started the keto diet combined with intermittent fasting on March 29th this year. I have not knowingly taken in any carbs since then and eat only one time a day, usually between 6 & 8 pm. When I started, I was 94.5 kg and now I am 75.5 kg. I feel much better, have more energy and the best thing is my blood sugar is normal without any diabetic medication. In the 6 years that I have been on diabetic medication, the meds never lowered my blood sugar to normal. Will I go back to eating carbs? No. I am almost 59 years old and only 175 tall so 94.5 kg was pretty heavy for me.

[bberrythailand]

one meal a day does not seem to be a very smart idea...

 

 

[bkk6060]

The biggest problem with these high protein diets is lack of fiber.

Sure, it may lower your sugar, but can create orher serious issues.

[lensta]

20 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

The biggest problem with these high protein diets is lack of fiber.

Sure, it may lower your sugar, but can create orher serious issues.

You should really find out what a ketogenic diet is before posting. The Atkins diet is high protein. I do not take in more than the recommended daily amount of protein which is .85 grams of protein per kilo of target body weight.

Are you speaking from personal experience?

[lensta]

7 hours ago, bberrythailand said:

one meal a day does not seem to be a very smart idea...

 

 

Ah, a smart idea would to be over weight, unhealthy, have high blood sugar, and to have to take diabetes medication that didn't work for the rest of my life and eventually have to have insulin injections. I think I will stay dumb thanks.

[Tapster]

@lvr181

 

@peterb17

 

Here's the evidence I promised.

It's in the form of a video presented by Dr Robert Lustig of the University of California, San Francisco.

Dr Lustig is a paediatric endocrinologist and a specialist in childhood obesity.

 

These are his credentials :  http://profiles.ucsf.edu/robert.lustig

 

and this is his entry in Wikipedia:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig

 

The video is here:   http://www.uctv.tv/shows/Sugar-The-Bitter-Truth-16717

 

It is called "Sugar: the Bitter Truth" and can also be found on YouTube.

 

The video goes into the detailed biochemistry of carbohydrate and fat metabolism which should please peterb17, and there are peer-reviewed papers aplenty which will hopefully satisfy lvr181.

 

It's a long watch at an hour and a half but if you want to know why refined carbohydrates are causing the current obesity and diabetes epidemic and why the low-fat diet advice from the 70s onwards was not only wrong but subsequently led to the aforementioned epidemic, it's all there.

 

I find the arguments compelling. I look forward to your thoughts.