Denied Tourist Visa at Vientiane , Laos Thai Consulate

[lkv]

18 minutes ago, Cletus said:

You kidding, are you actually living in Thailand? 

Tourism decline??

Lol Thailand is extra-full of tourists and I'd add spoiled by too many of them.

Jan 2017 has seen an all time high of 3,197,050 arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals

 

Yes, def a tourism decline in this diagram:

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism.asp

 

I think it's a BOOM not a decline!

Well, if TAT says so then it must be true.

 

They are not known to have made the numbers up in the past (joke).

 

There were a few occasions about a year ago when myself and other members were calculating their numbers, and the math did not add up so well. I'm lazy to look for those threads but I may do so, for us to be able to truly assess the credibility of TAT if you wish.

Edited August 2, 2017 by lkv

[Here2008]

9 minutes ago, lkv said:

There were a few occasions about a year ago when myself and other members were calculating their numbers

Can you detail the methodology you used?  Where did you get the raw numbers from ? 

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, lkv said:

Well, if TAT says so then it must be true.

 

They are not known to have made the numbers up in the past (joke).

 

There were a few occasions about a year ago when myself and other members were calculating their numbers, and the math did not add up so well. I'm lazy to look for those threads but I may do so, for us to be able to truly assess the credibility of TAT if you wish.

Yes, and lots of those "arrivals" are zero-dollar types, for whom a 1000 Baht discount on coming in (free visa or 1/2 price Visa-On-Arival) was crucial to making their trip affordable.  All I have to do is look at all the empty condos, to see which way things have headed.  But, yes, there are more "tour buses" and groups of people walking around who dine at 7-11.  Say what you want about the poorer backpackers, but at least they tend to eat street-food - so support entrepreneurial jobs.

[spidermike007]

36 minutes ago, Cletus said:

You kidding, are you actually living in Thailand? 

Tourism decline??

Lol Thailand is extra-full of tourists and I'd add spoiled by too many of them.

Jan 2017 has seen an all time high of 3,197,050 arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals

 

Yes, def a tourism decline in this diagram:

http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism.asp

 

 

I think it's a BOOM not a decline!

 

The ministry said almost a third of its total international arrivals in 2016 came from China, with 8.87 million Chinese visitors, making for an increase of 11.8 percent from 2015.

 

This is perhaps why nearly all of the people I speak with, who are in the tourism industry, complain about declining revenue. It is not always about quantity. Quality of tourist has to be taken into consideration. For the most part, the Thai government has given up on attracting well heeled Western tourists, and they are now going after sheer quantity, with the low end Chinese tourists. Many call them zero baht tourists. They are not spending much money. There is a price to be paid for that. They are clogging the roads and the airports and puffing up the arrival numbers. But, are they bringing prosperity with them? Think about it. Also, you are taking the TAT at it's word. A safe approach? I think not. And yes, I do live here, and have for a very long time, so my accounts of the people I speak about are first hand. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by spidermike007

[Wake Up]

I see Thai bashing daily and visa issues daily. Seems like a lot of people want to bitch when they live in Thailand and bitch when they cannot get in to live in Thailand. And the predictions of the doom and incompetence of Thailand and its people and leaders are amusing. Most humans avoid pain and displeasure which is normal. Then a few humans (a lot using TV) feel comfortable in their moaning, griping and predictions of doom. You are the master of the world you live in with choice and opportunity and attitude. Don't you deserve to live in a better place and better frame of mind and let the rest of us enjoy our place we chose to live and enjoy. Peace 

[Cletus]

I don't know if TAT numbers are correct or not.

 

All I know is that I can see many many tourists all year round in Thailand, low season, high season, north, south, really everywhere I go.

[darrendsd]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spent millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

Many tourists bring in real money to the country, and in exchange, are treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, many will say no more. Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply is losing sight of the big picture, and has very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned. I agree in asking the tourists to show that they have the means to support themselves. Nothing wrong with that. The country does not need beggar tourists, or hippies without a pot to piss in. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. And with the baht getting stronger all the time, my guess is that many are considering a move. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

 

Bar stool talk and I have been hearing but don't listen anymore to this for 20 years

 

Thailand is still and always will be a major tourist destination no matter what the doom and gloomers think

 

I have lived in Hua Hin for the last 12 years and the expansion of the town has been incredible in that time, it's the same in Pattaya, Samui etc

 

It is moving forward but the problem is the blinkered just don't see it, they just sit there complaining about everything

 

In real life I try to avoid people like you at all costs

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Those village families who survive on the 5000 Baht or so money that their daughters send home every month, will just have to do what everyone else does in the village . Work .

   Or those ladies who live in the biggest house in the village by their ill gotton gains will just have to realise that living in a hut is where their social status is

    Think of those families working hard in the village fields all day doing honest work for a meager salary , then seeing the local tart arrive with bag full of money from prostition

Thais with a "normal job" send home 5K.  The ladies making 3K Baht/night send home more.  Money sent-home is spent locally, to a great-extent, so those "biggest house in the village" = locals getting paid to build and maintain it.  The funds were not obtained by theft, so they are not "ill" gotten.  Keep in mind, even money the ladies of the night spend on clothes and such is all benefiting the economy and creating more jobs. 

 

Many times, the biggest houses have foreign-husbands living there; should they be forbidden, since it isn't "fair" to marry someone with money?  Why does it improve things for anyone, for her to live in a hut?  Communist totalitarian govt's have tried to equalize poverty in the name of fairness - see the marriage-rules in Lao for the ongoing effort - though if you pay the authoritarians enough, they will set their "principles of fairness and equality" aside.

 

I think we would both agree that educational opportunities should be made available as widely as possible, and that in an ideal world, we would have a meritocracy that rewards those who strive to better themselves.  But I cannot find much fault in a person who finds a way to make money from those who willingly pay them.  Barely surviving is not a condition to be admired, and those who find a way out - for themselves and their kin - should not be disparaged - provided they do not employ force or fraud to do so. 

 

A dress-code should be sufficient to protect the innocent - and is completely compatible with allowing more foreigners with foreign-sourced incomes to get long-term visas, fill all those empty condos, and frequent local businesses.  Many businesses are going-under, as hordes walk by, following a man with a little flag on a stick. 

It's the short-term tourists who are the vast majority on Walking St, and they are unaffected by the changes made which are threatening longer-staying tourists.

Edited August 2, 2017 by JackThompson

[JohnLick]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The funds were not obtained by theft, so they are not "ill" gotten.  Keep in mind, even money the ladies of the night spend on clothes and such is all benefiting the economy and creating more jobs. 

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

 

 Buddhism isn't exactly in line with prostitution either.

 

So it is "ill" gotten.

[DerekMarshall]

8 hours ago, tstcman said:

Has anybody else had this problem, where immigration didn't bother to check the dates on the stamp and just denies you because they were lazy?

Rough translation.

 

"has anybody else been denied a tourist visa because they abused the visa system?" 

8 hours ago, tstcman said:

I have 4 total tourist visas in my passport. 2 from last year and 2 dated to from this year

So a year's worth of tourist visas in a 20 month period is not the reason? nor 6 months of tourist visas in 7 months and 2 days?

 

8 hours ago, tstcman said:

Border police are cracking down on the smallest things.

No sir, they are cracking down on what are serial abusers of tourist visas. Besides, they have a right to apply the immigration law don't they?  What gives you the right to abuse that immigration law? 

[over it]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spent millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

Many tourists bring in real money to the country, and in exchange, are treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, many will say no more. Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply is losing sight of the big picture, and has very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned. I agree in asking the tourists to show that they have the means to support themselves. Nothing wrong with that. The country does not need beggar tourists, or hippies without a pot to piss in. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. And with the baht getting stronger all the time, my guess is that many are considering a move. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

 

A well thought out and written piece!

 

I spent the day packing!

[JackThompson]

 

Quote

Rough translation.

"has anybody else been denied a tourist visa because they abused the visa system?" 

So a year's worth of tourist visas in a 20 month period is not the reason? nor 6 months of tourist visas in 7 months and 2 days?

No sir, they are cracking down on what are serial abusers of tourist visas. Besides, they have a right to apply the immigration law don't they?  What gives you the right to abuse that immigration law? 

Please cite the immigration-law which limits how many times a person can enter, or how long a person can stay in Thailand on Tourist Visas.  Such rules exist to some extent on Visa-Exempt entries, but not Tourist Visas.

"Abusing" a Tourist-Visa would be violating its conditions - such as working a Thai job.  Following the rules the Thai Authorities wrote is not "abuse" of any sort.  Enough condos are empty already.  It's best for all to fill them back up.

Edited August 2, 2017 by JackThompson

[David Walden]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spent millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

Many tourists bring in real money to the country, and in exchange, are treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, many will say no more. Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply is losing sight of the big picture, and has very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned. I agree in asking the tourists to show that they have the means to support themselves. Nothing wrong with that. The country does not need beggar tourists, or hippies without a pot to piss in. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. And with the baht getting stronger all the time, my guess is that many are considering a move. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

 

 

Spider Mick I agree with every thing you say.  I can only repeat what I have said on other post on this site...you go to Malaysia and even if you are only passing through in a few hours and you are from a country like Australia, USA, UK, most of Europe and many other countries you simply walk up the the immigration desk, place your opened passport on the spot, put thumb on another spot, look at the camera, smile a bit and "Bobs your uncle" in about 20 seconds the officer will stamp your pass port with a 3 months tourist visa...all done,  This is the same in most other countries.

 

Similar efforts in Australia to get a 3 months Thai tourist visa  the application procedure is:--  Fill out the application form with all the required details, provide a passport photo less then 6 month old, deliver your pass port to a Thai Consul in your state or the Thai  Embassy in Canberra in Australia, include a copy of the personal information page of your pass port, a photo copy of an Australian drivers licence showing your proof of residential address.  You are also required to provide a recent copy of a certified bank statement showing you have a balance of more then Aus $800.  You deliver all this to a Thai Consul in Australia together with Aus$45.  The visa will take usually take about 5 days at a Consulate.  On one occasion it took 18 days at the Perth Australia ( I have applied 6 times now).  To add to all this you have to provide a copy of your Eticket of when you arrive and depart and  confirmed hotel booking...the funny part about this is when you do get the visa it states you can arrive any time you like within the following 3 months.

 

The application form from a Thai Consuls is very confusing on Question 10 it states  "Tourist (stay up to 60 days per entry)" however down the page in the general section it clearly states "The validity of visa is 3 months for tourist ,single entry". a real trap for players.  The Consul will tell you it's really 60day + 30 day 3 months tourist visa??

 

Now if you are very clued up you will find out later that if you want to stay in Thailand for the 3 month period you thought you could with this visa you will have to go to immigration before the 2 month period is up (make sure it is in the provence you are resident in or all will fail) and apply for a 30 day extension.  This takes about all day, that is half a day to find out how to do it correctly and half a day waiting around for your turn.  You will require more pass port photos, a tricky application form, several copies of this, your pass port and several copies, of the personal information page of your passport and Bt1900.  And "to boot" make sure each collection of papers are stapled correctly together or get back on the line? ...once you have done all this you will be invited to be interviewed by a immigration police officer to make sure you are the person you say you are, after all this your pass port will be stamped with a 30 day tourist visa extension.

 

And they try and tell us they want more tourist in Thailand...what a lot of rubbish??? 

[SicTransit]

No sir, they are cracking down on what are serial abusers of tourist visas. Besides, they have a right to apply the immigration law don't they?  What gives you the right to abuse that immigration law? 

 

This horse has been beaten down many times in every thread like this one.

 

Your ideas of what’s in the immigration law do not correspond with reality so you’re just spitting false accusations.

[David Walden]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

 

Please cite the immigration-law which limits how many times a person can enter, or how long a person can stay in Thailand on Tourist Visas.  Such rules exist to some extent on Visa-Exempt entries, but not Tourist Visas.

"Abusing" a Tourist-Visa would be violating its conditions - such as working a Thai job.  Following the rules the Thai Authorities wrote is not "abuse" of any sort.  Enough condos are empty already.  It's best for all to fill them back up.

There are about 20,000 band new condos 2 or 3 years old between Cha-am and Hue Hin, never been occupied and never been sold,  rows and rows, some 10 stories high some 40 stories high they go for miles, I go past them often.  Thai investors and Thai banks have placed confidence in the powers that be in Thailand to help get the tourist market going to no avail.  It very much the same all over Thailand...perhaps millions of big and small holiday accommodations operating at about one third or less of their potential...when will they ever learn?  I really wish I could help.

[darrendsd]

1 minute ago, David Walden said:

There are about 20,000 band new condos 2 or 3 years old between Cha-am and Hue Hin, never been occupied and never been sold,  rows and rows, some 10 stories high some 40 stories high they go for miles, I go past them often.  Thai investors and Thai banks have placed confidence in the powers that be in Thailand to help get the tourist market going to no avail.  It very much the same all over Thailand...perhaps millions of big and small holiday accommodations operating at about one third or less of their potential...when will they ever learn?  I really wish I could help.

 

Very few tourists buy Condos so I fail to see your point?

 

The majority of Condos owned in Hua Hin (I live here) are owned by weekend Bangkok Thais and that is the market they are aimed at

 

Tourists who come here for a couple of weeks a year are not likely to buy them are they?

 

 

[David Walden]

3 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The ministry said almost a third of its total international arrivals in 2016 came from China, with 8.87 million Chinese visitors, making for an increase of 11.8 percent from 2015.

 

This is perhaps why nearly all of the people I speak with, who are in the tourism industry, complain about declining revenue. It is not always about quantity. Quality of tourist has to be taken into consideration. For the most part, the Thai government has given up on attracting well heeled Western tourists, and they are now going after sheer quantity, with the low end Chinese tourists. Many call them zero baht tourists. They are not spending much money. There is a price to be paid for that. They are clogging the roads and the airports and puffing up the arrival numbers. But, are they bringing prosperity with them? Think about it. Also, you are taking the TAT at it's word. A safe approach? I think not. And yes, I do live here, and have for a very long time, so my accounts of the people I speak about are first hand. 

The little Thai lady that does my massages said to me "I don't like Chinese customers they pay very badly, don't want" 

[David Walden]

4 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

 

Very few tourists buy Condos so I fail to see your point?

 

The majority of Condos owned in Hua Hin (I live here) are owned by weekend Bangkok Thais and that is the market they are aimed at

 

Tourists who come here for a couple of weeks a year are not likely to buy them are they?

 

 

Yes only some tourists buy condos but many Thais will buy a condo if they can rent them out to tourists and get a return.  Thais are looking for that potential explosion of tourists and Thailand is just the place for it.

[brewsterbudgen]

You kidding, are you actually living in Thailand? 
Tourism decline??
Lol Thailand is extra-full of tourists and I'd add spoiled by too many of them.
Jan 2017 has seen an all time high of 3,197,050 arrivals https://tradingeconomics.com/thailand/tourist-arrivals
 
Yes, def a tourism decline in this diagram:
http://www.thaiwebsites.com/tourism.asp
 

 
I think it's a BOOM not a decline!

Sometimes I think a decline in tourism is just wishful thinking for some people!

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.
 
 Buddhism isn't exactly in line with prostitution either.
 
So it is "ill" gotten.

Prostitution is not illegal, it's regulated.

[NorthernRyland]

11 hours ago, tstcman said:

I have 4 total tourist visas in my passport. 2 from last year and 2 dated to from this year. Exiting the country on Monday going across into Laos Thai authorities stamped my last tourist visa saying that I had too many Tourist Visas. And the unfortunate part is when I looked in my passport at the time to make sure that they were stamping me out, I failed to notice put in my passport. 

 

Did you go back home between those 4 visas or were they 4 consecutive visas while you were in SE Asia, which happened to span 2 calendar years?

[darrendsd]

56 minutes ago, David Walden said:

There are about 20,000 band new condos 2 or 3 years old between Cha-am and Hue Hin, never been occupied and never been sold,  rows and rows, some 10 stories high some 40 stories high they go for miles, I go past them often.  Thai investors and Thai banks have placed confidence in the powers that be in Thailand to help get the tourist market going to no avail.  It very much the same all over Thailand...perhaps millions of big and small holiday accommodations operating at about one third or less of their potential...when will they ever learn?  I really wish I could help.

The powers that be have got the tourism market going, the figures prove this so your theory is flawed

 

The problem is not to few tourists, it's developers that continue to build no matter what

 

The people who come out with the oh it's so quiet compared to 5 years ago forget 1 simple fact, towns/city's are expanding at a massive rate, as this happens tourists are more spread out, 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, darrendsd said:

The powers that be have got the tourism market going, the figures prove this so your theory is flawed

 

The problem is not to few tourists, it's developers that continue to build no matter what

 

The people who come out with the oh it's so quiet compared to 5 years ago forget 1 simple fact, towns/city's are expanding at a massive rate, as this happens tourists are more spread out, 

You have a point on the developers - not sure how the financing works.  But zero-dollar tourists aren't going to be staying in condos, and those are the people who make up the  "big increase" in tourist-numbers, while longer-stayers are encouraged to go elsewhere.  Hotels catering to low-margin per-room busloads of low-spenders may be doing ok - or at least managing to keep the mortgage paid, and 7-11 is doing well.  The thing is, it doesn't have to be "one or the other" - since we don't occupy the same restaurants or dwellings.  The tour-buses clogging up the roads is a pain, but a friendly visa-policy could make up for that.  Condo-owners prefer long-term leases.

Edited August 2, 2017 by JackThompson

[ALFREDO]

12 hours ago, tstcman said:

The second question was,  was I told correctly by the consulate that with the 30-day exemption stamp I can go to immigration here in Chiang Mai and extend it for 30 days AFTER the first 30 days?

Yes that is OK, 30 days more possible,

 

BUT - you write "The options given to me was for me to go to the border and  try to get a 15 day stamp or a stamp for 30 day G7 tourist exemption stamp"

 

As far as I know the 15 days border Visa Exempt stamp are gone

- now its not only for G7 Country Passports but for all Qualified Visa Exempt Entries 30 days allowance and entry. 

[ALFREDO]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

The entire country is suffering from a declining tourism industry. And that will not change. It is a permanent declining trend. They need easier, and simpler visa policy, not more difficulty. They just don't get it. As I stated previously:

 

I have a friend who recently stayed on Samui. He stayed at a resort that has 54 rooms. Normally, they are 100% booked, from about Dec. 20th, to about January 5th. This year, they only had 22 rooms filled. They are down 60% for the peak season. Many resorts are experiencing similarly alarming numbers. These hotels counted on the government to support them, when they spent millions on their properties, and the government has let them down, once again. They continue to drop the ball, at every opportunity. 

 

Many tourists bring in real money to the country, and in exchange, are treated with utter and complete disregard, scammed, disrespected, and abused. Eventually, many will say no more. Thailand thinks the country is something very special, and that nobody would ever say no, or find alternative places to visit. The fact is that there are countless other spots, that offer better service, more expertise in food and beverage (especially wine), reasonable import duties to sustain a luxury goods market, better training, and far better english skills. Thailand simply is losing sight of the big picture, and has very little vision, with regard to big spending tourists, who need to be catered to, instead of scorned. I agree in asking the tourists to show that they have the means to support themselves. Nothing wrong with that. The country does not need beggar tourists, or hippies without a pot to piss in. 

 

The neighbors are trying too hard, and making too much effort, and investing money. Thailand is not. Though this topic relates mostly to tourism, in a way it pertains to ex-pats living here too. And I too am considering other spots. Thailand is making no steps whatsoever, to improve upon itself. On alot of levels, it feels like it is either standing still, or more than likely going backwards. Frankly, the biggest draw at the moment is being close to my wife's family, the food, the relatively pleasant. But, I dislike the government, and the level of ignorance being perpetrated by the fabulously inferior educational system here does not appear to bode well for the future of the place. I also despise the practice of face, and the staggering level of cowardice that accompanies that weak, pathetic quality. And with the baht getting stronger all the time, my guess is that many are considering a move. 

 

It is a real shame, as I find most Thai people to be quite lovely, friendly, warm, helpful and fun to be around. There are many aspects of life here, that I truly enjoy. I am sure many feel the same way. Just wish the country was not moving backwards, (and was instead moving forward under the leadership of progressive minds) due to a system of meritocracy, and a complete lack of forward looking vision. A nice dream indeed.

 

Moving the country forward? I think not. More like "Moving Thailand backwards at an alarming pace".

 

 

First - look the LINK - the Tourist numbers by country in the last 10 years and 2017 until now - cannot second your opinion with these numbers. Nearly all countries up - not same China = 10 fold but up in 10 year and in 1 year and last years.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

 

Second - Koh Samui - with their prices in PEAK Season there, I not surprised people go elsewhere over Christmas and New Year lol 

 

Third - the short time - really Tourists - 2 - 4 weeks or 2 -  3 month?  Holiday-Tourists have no problem with Visa issues - the long stayers same me, or who live here, have, but these are only a small part of the numbers and with family and so on, you, or I limited what I can do about it. 

[ALFREDO]

7 hours ago, sanemax said:

Those village families who survive on the 5000 Baht or so money that their daughters send home every month, will just have to do what everyone else does in the village . Work .

   Or those ladies who live in the biggest house in the village by their ill gotton gains will just have to realise that living in a hut is where their social status is

    Think of those families working hard in the village fields all day doing honest work for a meager salary , then seeing the local tart arrive with bag full of money from prostition

Only 5.000 Baht in month - Oh a lazy or not good daughter or not good looking or old or fat.  

 

Living and survive on 5.000 Baht - a family - the car cost more to pay back in the month! Or the 2 Motorbikes,  lol 

 

By the way - daughter or son in the South - most families still have their fields and work - I live in such a Village - many houses families have a girl somewhere - in a Bar, married to a foreigner or in other country working - whatever.

 

But family does usually not stop working - also there are some bad ones who only play some Casino game of dice or cards 

 

These families who have nobody out in the World or in South Thailand - including Bangkok, Pattaya and Rayong Industrie,  

to bring or send money look to find somebody in family who goes!

 

Lol, they want also have more.  

 

 

[ALFREDO]

7 hours ago, lkv said:

Well, if TAT says so then it must be true.

 

They are not known to have made the numbers up in the past (joke).

 

There were a few occasions about a year ago when myself and other members were calculating their numbers, and the math did not add up so well. I'm lazy to look for those threads but I may do so, for us to be able to truly assess the credibility of TAT if you wish.

 

6 hours ago, Here2008 said:

Can you detail the methodology you used?  Where did you get the raw numbers from ? 

 

6 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, and lots of those "arrivals" are zero-dollar types, for whom a 1000 Baht discount on coming in (free visa or 1/2 price Visa-On-Arival) was crucial to making their trip affordable.  All I have to do is look at all the empty condos, to see which way things have headed.  But, yes, there are more "tour buses" and groups of people walking around who dine at 7-11.  Say what you want about the poorer backpackers, but at least they tend to eat street-food - so support entrepreneurial jobs.

 

6 hours ago, Cletus said:

I don't know if TAT numbers are correct or not.

 

All I know is that I can see many many tourists all year round in Thailand, low season, high season, north, south, really everywhere I go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

[ALFREDO]

6 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 

The ministry said almost a third of its total international arrivals in 2016 came from China, with 8.87 million Chinese visitors, making for an increase of 11.8 percent from 2015.

 

This is perhaps why nearly all of the people I speak with, who are in the tourism industry, complain about declining revenue. It is not always about quantity. Quality of tourist has to be taken into consideration. For the most part, the Thai government has given up on attracting well heeled Western tourists, and they are now going after sheer quantity, with the low end Chinese tourists. Many call them zero baht tourists. They are not spending much money. There is a price to be paid for that. They are clogging the roads and the airports and puffing up the arrival numbers. But, are they bringing prosperity with them? Think about it. Also, you are taking the TAT at it's word. A safe approach? I think not. And yes, I do live here, and have for a very long time, so my accounts of the people I speak about are first hand. 

YES a lot of China now - but still the other Countries coming too, check it out and Condo buyers ect are not real Tourists in my opinion -

so more likely retirees and expats 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Thailand

[lkv]

7 hours ago, Here2008 said:

Can you detail the methodology you used?  Where did you get the raw numbers from ? 

Yes i can.

 

This is how they were making up the numbers in 2016.

 

Quoting my own post:

 

"Tourism revenues from these foreign tourists in the first six months also jumped to 1.24 trillion, up 8.24 billion baht or up about 17% from same period last year."

1.24 trillion = 1,240 billion

(8.24 / 1,240)x100= 0.66 % (less than one percent), not 17%.

Please, when you make things up, do it in a professional way."

Edited August 2, 2017 by lkv

[ALFREDO]

5 hours ago, JohnLick said:

Prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

 

 Buddhism isn't exactly in line with prostitution either.

 

So it is "ill" gotten.

OH lol 

 

-More Papal then the Pope-   5555 lol   

[ALFREDO]

4 hours ago, David Walden said:

 

Spider Mick I agree with every thing you say.  I can only repeat what I have said on other post on this site...you go to Malaysia and even if you are only passing through in a few hours and you are from a country like Australia, USA, UK, most of Europe and many other countries you simply walk up the the immigration desk, place your opened passport on the spot, put thumb on another spot, look at the camera, smile a bit and "Bobs your uncle" in about 20 seconds the officer will stamp your pass port with a 3 months tourist visa...all done,  This is the same in most other countries.

 

Similar efforts in Australia to get a 3 months Thai tourist visa  the application procedure is:--  Fill out the application form with all the required details, provide a passport photo less then 6 month old, deliver your pass port to a Thai Consul in your state or the Thai  Embassy in Canberra in Australia, include a copy of the personal information page of your pass port, a photo copy of an Australian drivers licence showing your proof of residential address.  You are also required to provide a recent copy of a certified bank statement showing you have a balance of more then Aus $800.  You deliver all this to a Thai Consul in Australia together with Aus$45.  The visa will take usually take about 5 days at a Consulate.  On one occasion it took 18 days at the Perth Australia ( I have applied 6 times now).  To add to all this you have to provide a copy of your Eticket of when you arrive and depart and  confirmed hotel booking...the funny part about this is when you do get the visa it states you can arrive any time you like within the following 3 months.

 

The application form from a Thai Consuls is very confusing on Question 10 it states  "Tourist (stay up to 60 days per entry)" however down the page in the general section it clearly states "The validity of visa is 3 months for tourist ,single entry". a real trap for players.  The Consul will tell you it's really 60day + 30 day 3 months tourist visa??

 

Now if you are very clued up you will find out later that if you want to stay in Thailand for the 3 month period you thought you could with this visa you will have to go to immigration before the 2 month period is up (make sure it is in the provence you are resident in or all will fail) and apply for a 30 day extension.  This takes about all day, that is half a day to find out how to do it correctly and half a day waiting around for your turn.  You will require more pass port photos, a tricky application form, several copies of this, your pass port and several copies, of the personal information page of your passport and Bt1900.  And "to boot" make sure each collection of papers are stapled correctly together or get back on the line? ...once you have done all this you will be invited to be interviewed by a immigration police officer to make sure you are the person you say you are, after all this your pass port will be stamped with a 30 day tourist visa extension.

 

And they try and tell us they want more tourist in Thailand...what a lot of rubbish??? 

OK, but still is Thailand before Malaysia in Tourist arrivals and special also in Expats, Retirees I think - when its more easy in Malaysia?  lol  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Tourism_rankings

Edited August 2, 2017 by ALFREDO