Visiting Thailand multiple times per year on exemption stamp not a problem?

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Scott3000 said:

In what time period for the 6 times visa exempt by air?

 

I had 2 earlier this year (Jan, Mar); 2 in 2016. A lot more before entries and TV's in 2014-15, but lived 6 months outside of Thailand  in 2016, and the most recent 5 months outside of Thailand this year.

 

I'm getting ready to go back by air after a 5 month absence.

 

I also have a new passport.

 

So my questions for this next trip would be if the new passport helps, and also if I would be OK entering visa exempt in Bangkok (DMK) or if it's recommended to enter in CNX? And, of course, 6 visa exempt entries in what time period?

 

Thanks!

As far as we know, the count continues since they began the counting in 2015.  There is no "reset" I have heard of.  The computer seems to "alert" on other things relating to time-in-country, though we don't have specifics on this, either. 

A new passport makes no difference at Immigration, because it will link to your old one, and the IO will see all your entries.  A new passport only helps with 2 things:

1. Getting additional Tourist Visas at local consulates, who only count the visas they see in the passport submitted
2. The IO will often review all used pages in your passport when you enter the country, so this shortens that step.

Having time-out-of-country should reduce scrutiny on entry, but some people have been questioned after 7+ months away because, in the past, they had stayed for a longer-period.  If you haven't stayed in Thailand for more than a couple months /yr at a time, it is less likely you would be interrogated.

 

People have had trouble at several airports, though I don't recall any horror-stories about CNX.  But since you are not staying here near-full-time, you are unlikely to be questioned.  If you are questioned, you need to "helpfully" show 10K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks (any convertible currency, and 20K is better), a flight-ticket out within 30 days, and some proof of where you will be staying (hotel-booking, etc). 

 

If planning to stay more than 30 days, getting a Tourist Visa first would be a good idea (though it does raise the min-cash to show requirement to 20K Baht) because:

1. It is cheaper than an extension to a 30-day visa-exempt entry
2. It is much less likely an IO will give you any trouble upon entry
3. You don't have to show an air-ticket out in 30 days to board your flight

The visa-exempt by-air rules are, essentially, unknown and/or arbitrary, creating a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over Thai tourists.  This could be remedied by a clear set of published-rules which would provide both IOs and Visitors with a sense of confidence that they are always doing the "right thing" in every case.

Edited October 13, 2017 by JackThompson

[phuketjock]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As far as we know, the count continues since they began the counting in 2015.  There is no "reset" I have heard of.  The computer seems to "alert" on other things relating to time-in-country, though we don't have specifics on this, either. 

A new passport makes no difference at Immigration, because it will link to your old one, and the IO will see all your entries.  A new passport only helps with 2 things:

1. Getting additional Tourist Visas at local consulates, who only count the visas they see in the passport submitted
2. The IO will often review all used pages in your passport when you enter the country, so this shortens that step.

Having time-out-of-country should reduce scrutiny on entry, but some people have been questioned after 7+ months away because, in the past, they had stayed for a longer-period.  If you haven't stayed in Thailand for more than a couple months /yr at a time, it is less likely you would be interrogated.

 

People have had trouble at several airports, though I don't recall any horror-stories about CNX.  But since you are not staying here near-full-time, you are unlikely to be questioned.  If you are questioned, you need to "helpfully" show 10K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks (any convertible currency, and 20K is better), a flight-ticket out within 30 days, and some proof of where you will be staying (hotel-booking, etc). 

 

If planning to stay more than 30 days, getting a Tourist Visa first would be a good idea (though it does raise the min-cash to show requirement to 20K Baht) because:

1. It is cheaper than an extension to a 30-day visa-exempt entry
2. It is much less likely an IO will give you any trouble upon entry

The visa-exempt by-air rules are, essentially, unknown and/or arbitrary, creating a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over Thai tourists.  This could be remedied by a clear set of published-rules which would provide both IOs and Visitors with a sense of confidence that they are always doing the "right thing" in every case.

"creating a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over Thai tourists." 

Genuine tourists have absolutely nothing to fear it is the correct visa dodgers who need to fear, no one else.

If anyone wishes to stay long term in Thailand get the appropriate visa and you will have no problems, simple

as that.

Edited October 13, 2017 by phuketjock
addition

[JackThompson]

5 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

"creating a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over Thai tourists." 

Genuine tourists have absolutely nothing to fear it is the correct visa dodgers who need to fear, no one else.

If anyone wishes to stay long term in Thailand get the appropriate visa and you will have no problems, simple

as that.

Which is why I suggest everyone who has any frequency or longer-stay history get the perfectly-appropriate Tourist Visa.  The laws on TR Visas are crystal clear:
You can obtain as many as you want, and come as often as you want - just have 20K Baht in cash, don't overstay, and don't work. 

 

And to ensure that you encounter IOs who follow the laws, don't enter at checkpoints (airports or Poipet/Aranya) where rouge-IOs make up non-existent rules.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The visa-exempt by-air rules are, essentially, unknown and/or arbitrary, creating a sense of fear, uncertainty, and doubt hanging over Thai tourists.  This could be remedied by a clear set of published-rules which would provide both IOs and Visitors with a sense of confidence that they are always doing the "right thing" in every case.

 

Thailand has a hot climate and 50% of it's borders are beaches and access to the sea.

An ideal holiday destination for many worldwide.

 

It wouldn't be in Thailand's interest to publish clear rules for entry as Tourists as this could have a negative effect to their tourist industry.

It's in their interest to remain flexible and accommodating to all.

 

Immigration officers however do have clear rules. They have the right to question so called 'tourists' who frequently enter Thailand as to the genuine reason for their numerous visits over short periods, or the suspicion their numerous visits may be connected with conducting an illegal activity.

 

If you need to stay long term in Thailand, then appropriate Visas and Extensions are available.

If you can't afford, or meet the criteria to obtain said Visas or Extensions, then maybe you should be looking for a more accommodating Country to stay.

 

[phuketjock]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Which is why I suggest everyone who has any frequency or longer-stay history get the perfectly-appropriate Tourist Visa.  The laws on TR Visas are crystal clear:
You can obtain as many as you want, and come as often as you want - just have 20K Baht in cash, don't overstay, and don't work. 

 

And to ensure that you encounter IOs who follow the laws, don't enter at checkpoints (airports or Poipet/Aranya) where rouge-IOs make up non-existent rules.

If what you say were true Jack people with a history of multiple exempt/tourist visa entries would

not be having the problems they are would they?, because they do not have the appropriate visa for

there stay in Thailand they are being taken aside at immigration and quizzed on the reason for their 

frequent use of tourist/exempt entries.

BTW Jack where can I find these RED ( rouge ) IOs? perhaps you mean rogue? It is their country Jack

and whether you like it or not they can use any rules they see fit, you, or anyone else is not going to

change that and the sooner you take that on board the less grief you will give yourself, and everyone

else. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by phuketjock

[JackThompson]

39 minutes ago, phuketjock said:

If what you say were true Jack people with a history of multiple exempt/tourist visa entries would not be having the problems they are would they?, because they do not have the appropriate visa for there stay in Thailand they are being taken aside at immigration and quizzed on the reason for their  frequent use of tourist/exempt entries. 

BTW Jack where can I find these RED ( rouge ) IOs? perhaps you mean rogue? It is their country Jack

People entering with Tourist Visas + the required cash, where the actual laws are followed, have not reported any problems entering in recent years.

 

In many documented cases of questioning and rejection at Airports and Poipet/Aranya, visitors were told seeming "statements of fact" regarding immigration rules which do not exist in immigration law or ministerial orders.  Therefore, the IOs telling them these things are acting outside of the law - hence the term "rogue."  (picking on typos, now?) 

 

The State of Thailand is controlled by a government, who publishes laws and ministerial orders.  According to those laws, those employed down-the-chain of command do not get to make up new laws/rules based on their own personal preferences.  None the less, it seems this behavior is being tolerated at certain known locations (airports and Poipet/Aranya).  Therefore, these are semi-lawless zones akin to what one would expect in uncivilized countries - places to be avoided if at all possible.  Precautionary measures should be taken to minimize harm, when/if they cannot be avoided.

 

Quote

... and whether you like it or not they can use any rules they see fit, you, or anyone else is not going to change that and the sooner you take that on board the less grief you will give yourself, and everyone else. 

Grief to those with Tourist Visas comes from IOs at certain locations making up non-rules and wrecking people's plans.  Grief comes to those entering Visa-Exempt by entering where arbitrary rejection is more likely to occur. 

 

Everyone should know that "Visa Exempt" entries are granted by immigration at their whim.  A tourist-visa, while not a 100% guarantee of permitted-entry, is much less likely to be rejected.  There is virtually no chance at all of rejection with a Tourist Visa + Cash, if entering where the actual laws/rules are enforced (all land borders except Poipet/Aranya).

 

The more people who are aware that rogue-IOs are present at certain locations, and avoid those locations, the fewer sad-cases will occur.  This result is good for both the visitors, and Thais who are counting on them to be customers of their businesses.  That is the best way to minimize Grief.

Edited October 13, 2017 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Thailand has a hot climate and 50% of it's borders are beaches and access to the sea.

An ideal holiday destination for many worldwide.

 

It wouldn't be in Thailand's interest to publish clear rules for entry as Tourists as this could have a negative effect to their tourist industry.

It's in their interest to remain flexible and accommodating to all.

"Flexible" would be bending the rules to allow someone to enter, who does not meet the laws/rules as written.  Fear, uncertainty, and doubt occur when the rules are unclear, or when those who do meet the laws/rules as written are arbitrarily denied entry.   The latter is not good for tourism.

 

Quote

Immigration officers however do have clear rules. They have the right to question so called 'tourists' who frequently enter Thailand as to the genuine reason for their numerous visits over short periods, or the suspicion their numerous visits may be connected with conducting an illegal activity.

Questions are fine.  Publishing additional rules that state, for example, proof of income or other documentation is needed to exceed a certain time-period "as a tourist" would also be fine.  We all want to live in a "safe Thailand" and see dangerous / criminal types kept out.

 

Quote

If you need to stay long term in Thailand, then appropriate Visas and Extensions are available.

If you can't afford, or meet the criteria to obtain said Visas or Extensions, then maybe you should be looking for a more accommodating Country to stay.

Fortunately for many visitors and Thai businesses, there is currently no legal regulation as to staying repeatedly on Tourist Visas.  That could, of course, change - so people staying here for longer periods should be prepared for such changes with a backup-plan.  I also recommend everyone here (especially frequent-tourists) have a plan to get their stuff sent to them, and be prepared to lose apt/condo deposits, etc - in case of rejected-entry or sudden changes in the rules.

Edited October 13, 2017 by JackThompson

[phuketjock]

56 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

People entering with Tourist Visas + the required cash, where the actual laws are followed, have not reported any problems entering in recent years.

 

In many documented cases of questioning and rejection at Airports and Poipet/Aranya, visitors were told seeming "statements of fact" regarding immigration rules which do not exist in immigration law or ministerial orders.  Therefore, the IOs telling them these things are acting outside of the law - hence the term "rogue."  (picking on typos, now?) 

 

The State of Thailand is controlled by a government, who publishes laws and ministerial orders.  According to those laws, those employed down-the-chain of command do not get to make up new laws/rules based on their own personal preferences.  None the less, it seems this behavior is being tolerated at certain known locations (airports and Poipet/Aranya).  Therefore, these are semi-lawless zones akin to what one would expect in uncivilized countries - places to be avoided if at all possible.  Precautionary measures should be taken to minimize harm, when/if they cannot be avoided.

 

Grief to those with Tourist Visas comes from IOs at certain locations making up non-rules and wrecking people's plans.  Grief comes to those entering Visa-Exempt by entering where arbitrary rejection is more likely to occur. 

 

Everyone should know that "Visa Exempt" entries are granted by immigration at their whim.  A tourist-visa, while not a 100% guarantee of permitted-entry, is much less likely to be rejected.  There is virtually no chance at all of rejection with a Tourist Visa + Cash, if entering where the actual laws/rules are enforced (all land borders except Poipet/Aranya).

 

The more people who are aware that rogue-IOs are present at certain locations, and avoid those locations, the fewer sad-cases will occur.  This result is good for both the visitors, and Thais who are counting on them to be customers of their businesses.  That is the best way to minimize Grief.

More blah blah blah Jack it is what it is and it is not going to change because a few visa dodgers don't have

the wherewithall to get the correct visa for their purpose of stay and think they are hard done by.

Give us all. and yourself, a break Jack.

What is it you don't understand about " it is their country and therefore their rules " written or unwritten?

[anon789561]

'poipet'  only last year. 'why you come back so soon'. because i live here. 'you have flight go home'. no. i live here, it was a few hours drive, why fly.  'you stay so long'. because my family is here. 'you, have money to stay?' have a look at this account, that's all you are seeing.  'oh you stay thailand, why?' only ever questioned it myself with your bad attitudes at this border. get this. it's my home. 'ok' stamp. that's poipet. who knows what happened up there 

[lopezkoa]

I've been only been applying for a Tourist Visa when I plan on staying at least 60 days, as its cheaper. 1000 Baht for 60 days compared to 1900 Baht staying with a Visa exempt plus 30 day extension.  

 

I have a history of long stay in Thailand. 3 TR's from Vieantiane and currently entered on my 9th VE since my Visa expired, I took a trip to Malaysia and back to Bangkok without applying for Visa  because I made plans to go to Japan at the end of October, so I didn't want to go through the process of applying for Visa and worrying about re-entry when I know I am good for 30 days. 

 

When I entered without a Visa which would be my 9th Ve stamp,  the IO spent what seemed like 5 minutes flipping through my whole passport and probably checking to see that I dont have any overstay. And asked me why do I come to Thailand and if I am working.. I said no, I'm flying to Japan at the end of the month. He stamped me in and that was it. Although I did have my onward flight confirmation and 20K cash ready, he didn't ask for that.

 

I am flying out again in 3 weeks to Japan in November, for only a few days then back to Bangkok on another VE, which will start my 30 days all over again (and will be my 10th total VE in my passport)  so hopefully that goes smoothly.  If I get denied entry then I already have a plan to fly to Hong Kong and then i can spend two days to apply for Thai visa out there and return again.

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by lopezkoa

[JackThompson]

47 minutes ago, lopezkoa said:

I've been only been applying for a Tourist Visa when I plan on staying at least 60 days, as its cheaper. 1000 Baht for 60 days compared to 1900 Baht staying with a Visa exempt plus 30 day extension.  

 

I have a history of long stay in Thailand. 3 TR's from Vieantiane and currently entered on my 9th VE since my Visa expired, I took a trip to Malaysia and back to Bangkok without applying for Visa  because I made plans to go to Japan at the end of October, so I didn't want to go through the process of applying for Visa and worrying about re-entry when I know I am good for 30 days. 

 

When I entered without a Visa which would be my 9th Ve stamp,  the IO spent what seemed like 5 minutes flipping through my whole passport and probably checking to see that I dont have any overstay. And asked me why do I come to Thailand and if I am working.. I said no, I'm flying to Japan at the end of the month. He stamped me in and that was it. Although I did have my onward flight confirmation and 20K cash ready, he didn't ask for that.

 

I am flying out again in 3 weeks to Japan in November, for only a few days then back to Bangkok on another VE, which will start my 30 days all over again (and will be my 10th total VE in my passport)  so hopefully that goes smoothly.  If I get denied entry then I already have a plan to fly to Hong Kong and then i can spend two days to apply for Thai visa out there and return again.

 

If denied-entry, you will likely not have a choice as to where you fly.  In most cases reported recently, the only option given was back to the same place you just flew from.  If you are lucky, there will be a flight leaving soon to that location, and you will not be locked-up for too long. 

 

Unfortunately, you cannot get a Tourist Visa in Japan unless you have permanent residence there.  Definitely have the cash and onward ticket to show when arriving in Thailand.  I would also carry some paperwork showing the source of your non-Thai income.  Hopefully, you won't be questioned at all.

[BritTim]

5 hours ago, phuketjock said:

it is what it is and it is not going to change

The first part of what you state is undoubtedly correct. Thailand is a country where the rule of law only applies to a very shaky extent. A visitor needs to be aware:

• The regulations in the Thailand Immigration Act of 1979
• Ministerial Orders that qualify the effects of the Act
• Local rules applied by some immigration officials in some locations that occasionally conflict with the documented regulations. This last set of rules is difficult to acquaint yourself with. Besides being dependent, on the individual official your nationality, age and general appearance, together with the lengths of your visit to Thailand and all kinds of other factors apply. Since those local rules are undocumented, we need to mostly go on anecdotal reports that identify where the problem officials tend to be concentrated.

I do not dispute that occasional visitors to Thailand for short periods do not need to worry if they come from rich Western nations. Those who want to visit their significant others here on a regular basis, or who (for instance) have Indian nationality are well advised to try to avoid becoming casualties of local rules.

 

The last part of what you say "it is not going to change" is very unlikely to be the case. Undocumented changes to the way certain officials behave is, sadly, set to continue in the future as it has in the past. Recognizing when that happens is one of the prime functions of this board

 

[phuketjock]

39 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The first part of what you state is undoubtedly correct. Thailand is a country where the rule of law only applies to a very shaky extent. A visitor needs to be aware:

• The regulations in the Thailand Immigration Act of 1979
• Ministerial Orders that qualify the effects of the Act
• Local rules applied by some immigration officials in some locations that occasionally conflict with the documented regulations. This last set of rules is difficult to acquaint yourself with. Besides being dependent, on the individual official your nationality, age and general appearance, together with the lengths of your visit to Thailand and all kinds of other factors apply. Since those local rules are undocumented, we need to mostly go on anecdotal reports that identify where the problem officials tend to be concentrated.

I do not dispute that occasional visitors to Thailand for short periods do not need to worry if they come from rich Western nations. Those who want to visit their significant others here on a regular basis, or who (for instance) have Indian nationality are well advised to try to avoid becoming casualties of local rules.

 

The last part of what you say "it is not going to change" is very unlikely to be the case. Undocumented changes to the way certain officials behave is, sadly, set to continue in the future as it has in the past. Recognizing when that happens is one of the prime functions of this board

 

 

If anything perhaps I should have added for the better.